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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Biden Campaigns in Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin; Trump Continues Downplaying COVID-19 Pandemic. Aired 4-4:30p ET

Aired October 30, 2020 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:02]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Just last night, President Trump's son Donald Jr. shared a cruel and, frankly, disgusting claim, a false claim, that almost no one in the U.S. is dying from coronavirus.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP JR., SON OF DONALD TRUMP: I went through the CDC data, because I kept hearing about new infections. But I was like, well, why aren't they talking about deaths? Oh, oh, because the number is almost nothing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: "The number is almost nothing, almost nothing."

Well, you can tell that to the families who lost 971 loved ones just yesterday, the same day that Donald Trump Jr. said that, 971.

Or you can talk to the families of the more than 229,000 Americans who have died so far in this pandemic. Those lives are not almost nothing, yet this is all part of the Trump closing argument that we have heard all week.

Chief of Staff Mark Meadows kicked it off by telling me on Sunday that the Trump administration could not to control the spread of the virus.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK MEADOWS, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: We're not going to control the pandemic. We are going to control the fact that we get vaccines, therapeutics and other mitigation areas...

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: Why aren't we going to get control of the pandemic?

MEADOWS: Because it is a contagious virus, just like the flu.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Now President Trump, on his campaign blitz, is ignoring social distancing guidelines, gathering large crowds, no masks required. Even though new cases of coronavirus are surging, and some of them are traceable to his rallies, he is planning to hold multiple rallies every day until Election Day, as CNN's Kaitlan Collins reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Trump and Joe Biden are making their closing arguments to voters while coronavirus cases are the highest they have ever been in the U.S.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're still rounding the corner.

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump has given up.

COLLINS: Infections are surging across the country, including in the battleground states where the candidates are spending the last days of the 2020 race.

TRUMP: Hello, Michigan.

BIDEN: Hello, Iowa!

COLLINS: The U.S. reported almost 90,000 new daily cases yesterday, but the president pushed a different view of reality as he left Washington today.

TRUMP: We're doing very well with respect to making the turn on the pandemic. We're working very hard on that, great therapeutics.

COLLINS: Trump once promised there would be a coronavirus vaccine before Election Day, but aides are now distancing themselves from that deadline.

ALYSSA FARAH, WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR OF STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS: I mean, his goal has never -- Election Day is kind of an arbitrary deadline. Americans are still suffering from this virus. The sooner we can get it, the better. And that's his goal.

COLLINS: It was the president who set that arbitrary deadline that medical experts said wasn't realistic.

TRUMP: So we're going to have us a vaccine very soon, maybe even before a very special date. You know what date I'm talking about.

COLLINS: The president's campaign announced today that he will hold 14 rallies across seven states in the next three days.

TRUMP: What a crowd. This is some crowd. Wow. This is a big crowd.

COLLINS: Trump has continued to hold large events with little social distancing, where the crowds are mostly maskless.

His last stop is in Minnesota today, though the exact location of his rally was in flux, after state officials insisted the event follow safety guidelines that include a cap on 250 attendees.

TRUMP: Twenty-five thousand people want to be there. As they say you can only have 250 people. So they thought I'd cancel. But I'm not canceling.

COLLINS: Biden is also in the Midwest today with a different approach to the pandemic that his aides hope will help voters see him as a safe alternative to Trump.

BIDEN: Donald Trump has waved the white flag. He surrendered to this virus. But the American people don't give up.

COLLINS: In Michigan, the president ridiculed Biden for adhering to social distancing guidelines, while he flouts them.

TRUMP: I'm watching these Biden rallies. It's like, there's nobody. Of course, he says that they want to do it that way on purpose.

COLLINS: Trump even mocked a FOX News host for wearing a mask at his rally.

TRUMP: I can't recognize you. Is that a mask? No way. Are you wearing a mask? I have never seen her in a mask. Look at you. Oh, she's being very politically correct. Whoa. Whoa!

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: Jake, that comes from the same president who said he has no problem with people wearing a mask.

And while he was in Michigan, he also wrongly claimed that hospitals are overstating the numbers of coronavirus deaths in order to get more money, of course, something that doctors have denied and said is not true.

But his next stop is going to be in Wisconsin, a state that he won by less than a percentage point in 2016. And it shows you how important it is to the president. He's there today. The first lady is going to be there tomorrow. And, of course, we know Joe Biden is also going to be there tonight -- Jake.

TAPPER: So the president said something about how people at his rallies, Kaitlan, are wearing masks, and he doesn't think it's a bad thing.

But when you look at his rallies, most of the people there are not wearing masks. They're not distancing. So, is he just trying to rewrite history and rewrite the reality we see in front of our eyes?

[16:05:00]

I mean, these are unsafe events, according to health officials, period.

COLLINS: Yes. And we have seen campaign officials try to say people are wearing a

mask. Often, they will have the people right behind the president in the frame of the camera wear one. I have been to a lot of these rallies, Jake. There are not a lot of people wearing a mask.

And when you talk to them, you say, if the president said put on a mask while he's on stage, would you put one on? A lot of people often say yes, Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Kaitlan Collins, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

CNN's chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, joins us now.

Sanjay, I want to give you a chance to respond to Donald Trump Jr., who said that the death rate in this country was almost nothing. He was actually reacting to a clip of you and me talking, saying -- and you were saying that it's not safe for people to go to Trump rallies, and you wouldn't recommend they go.

But what do you make of this, saying almost no one's dying of this virus?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, I saw that clip, Jake. He was obviously very mocking toward these very scientific, evidence-based recommendations.

I mean, I think it's exactly what you have said. I mean, so many people have died, and more than the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and Vietnam put together. And I know some of these families. I know they watch this show, and because I e-mail with them and talk to them.

And it's just -- it's really -- just really vile, I think, and really obviously disrespectful.

We, for the last eight months, Jake, have brought on epidemiologists and scientists and infectious disease doctors. We talk about them on this show. We do town halls. We have podcasts. The whole goal has been to try and educate people.

This mocking and demonizing and maligning of science, I think, is -- it's shocking to me that it continues. Again, I watched what Don Jr. said, and he said, there's really no deaths, they're going away.

It reminded me of what we heard from the president at the beginning, there's no cases, they're going away.

How are we still having that conversation nine months into this at this point? So it hurt my feelings a little bit, Jake. What am I supposed to say, right? I mean, I was upset by it, not for me, but for all the people out there who have been so directly affected by this, to be so dismissive of their lives.

They died. They didn't need to. We showed what would have happened if we applied some of the policies around the world to the United States. If we had done with South Korea did 2,799 people would have died, not 227,000 people. It just -- the lists go on and on. We have tried to show people what's happening, and tried to offer a

plan. And we do that by reporting on it and talking to these scientists. And, for some reason, that just didn't seem to -- it doesn't seem to click with him.

TAPPER: No, and we have talked about the things that the administration has done that are good, Operation Warp Speed for a vaccine...

GUPTA: Yes.

TAPPER: ... improvements in therapeutics, and increasing or speeding up the process by which they're OKed. Give the president his due.

But the idea -- I mean, just yesterday, the same day Don Jr. said this, 971 Americans died from the virus, just yesterday. It is just -- it is so heartbreaking to see this denial of reality.

I don't even know what to say, you know?

GUPTA: Yes, I am with you, Jake.

And we -- you would have talked, I think, every day, just about, since the beginning of this, every weekday. And, I mean, there are things that are worth celebrating in terms of the progress of science and the vaccine and the therapeutics, and, overall, the death rate, in terms of proportion of deaths, will continue to go down, thankfully, hopefully.

I mean, we are learning a lot about this virus. But the idea that you still want to bury your head in the sand, as opposed to taking this on and doing something about it, is -- it's incredibly frustrating. It's been sort of the most shaking thing, I think, for me, because I guess, just as a doc, you sort of believe people will galvanize around this, we will do the right thing.

I mean, what could be more inspiring than this idea that I could help save your life, you could help save my life? I mean, that was the conversation we were having back in March. And I thought that's it. That's got to inspire people to do the right thing.

And the last day of October, we're hearing from the first son that deaths aren't even happening. How do you solve a problem if you don't acknowledge it at all?

I mean, it was -- I lost a little bit of sleep just thinking, not -- again, not about my own feelings, but the idea that we're the United States, and the best we could do was be the worst in the world.

TAPPER: Yes.

GUPTA: It just doesn't sit right with me.

TAPPER: And the U.S., just since I have been on air, passed this sobering new milestone, nine million cases, nine million, by far, according to official numbers, the worst in the world in terms of how many people have been infected with this horrible virus.

[16:10:00]

What do you think the count is going to look like a month from now, at the end of November?

GUPTA: Well, the pace at which people are becoming infected is increasing.

So, we -- people say we're going to hit maybe 100,000 people potentially becoming infected every day. It could surpass that even. So, if you think about a month, you're talking about three million more people, potentially. I hope not.

I mean, I can't believe I'm saying that word so cavalier. Three million people could potentially become infected within a month. But it is possible, Jake. I mean, you look at the numbers today vs. yesterday, and you look at not just the growth, but the pace of growth, and within another less than two weeks, there will probably be another million people who've been infected.

If the numbers continue to grow at that pace, that acceleration, it's really problematic. There are younger people who are -- they're making up a larger percentage of the newly infected. As you point out, we do have more therapeutics. We should be able to bring the overall death rate down as a proportion of infected.

But once you have so many people infected, even if you bring the death rate down, the proportion down, it's still so many deaths, Jake. I mean, if you look at the IHME model, they say we could possibly get close to 2,500 people potentially dying every day again, if you think about that, 100,000 infected, 2,500. That's still that 2.5 percent that we have been talking about.

TAPPER: And even beyond the death rate, I mean, some of the young, healthy people that survive this have lifelong health effects, scarring in their lungs, still having trouble breathing months later.

And now, of course, with the onset of the flu season, we have a case in California where somebody has tested positive for both coronavirus and the flu at the same time.

What is most worrisome about that?

GUPTA: Well, I think that we're going to see more and more of that, because you have these two respiratory viruses that are really going to be increasing in numbers around the same time. And it is possible, as you point out, to be infected with both.

The idea, I think, is less significant for any given individual, because I think the overall magnitude of the disease on an individual will be dictated by the worst virus for that person. But, when you have this happening in large populations, the concern, I think, for public health officials is that both these things in a certain segment of the population is going to require hospitalization. And if you are demanding resources for two sort of viruses,

respiratory viruses, at the same time, that's when you really start to get in trouble in terms of resources.

So, we already have a good projection in any given year of how many people need to be hospitalized for flu, and now they're trying to layer in and try and anticipate what it's going to look like with coronavirus as well.

TAPPER: It's so depressing.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks so much. Appreciate you, as always.

The final focus, President Trump and Joe Biden bombarding the Upper Midwest battleground states. We're going to talk about why that area is so important and the wild card to watch on the road to victory. Harry Enten will break it all down.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:17:25]

TAPPER: Today, Joe Biden his campaign have a clear focus on the campaign trail, rebuilding the Democrats' blue wall that has been so crucial to their past election successes, though not four years ago.

Biden this afternoon campaigning in Des Moines, Iowa, before rallies in both Minnesota and Wisconsin this evening.

CNN's Arlette Saenz is live for us in Falcon Heights, Minnesota, just outside St. Paul, where Biden is holding another event in just a few minutes.

Arlette, why has the Biden team decided to focus there today?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, Jake, Joe Biden says he's not taking anything for granted. And that includes right here in Minnesota.

This is a Democratic-leaning state, but one where President Trump has really tried to make an aggressive play in recent weeks. So, part of Biden's goal today in this three-state swing that he's making is to shore up Democratic support in an area like Minnesota, as well as Wisconsin, where he will be traveling later today.

But just a few hours ago, Biden campaigned in Iowa. That's a state that President Trump won decisively back in 2016. But there is a competitive race there right now in this presidential election. And Biden talked about his closing message, honing in on the coronavirus pandemic, and also talking about the character of the nation being at stake.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Well, nothing can tear America apart, except America itself.

And that's exactly what Donald Trump is doing from the beginning, trying to divide America, pitting Americans against one another, based on race, gender, ethnicity, national origin. It's wrong. That's not who we are.

Look, folks, everybody knows who Donald Trump is. We got to let him know we are.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: Now, while in Iowa, Biden also promoted the Democratic Senate candidate Theresa Greenfield. You have seen him done that -- do that in other states, like Georgia and Michigan, as he has argued that it's not just important to -- for Democrats to win the White House, but they also need to reclaim the Senate -- Jake.

TAPPER: It's a competitive race there for incumbent Republican Senator Joni Ernst, her seat.

Arlette, where is the Biden campaign putting its resources on this final weekend and on Monday, the last day before Election Day?

SAENZ: Well, Biden's focus in the final stretch will be on rebuilding that blue wall. He's ending today in Wisconsin. Tomorrow, he will be campaigning in Michigan with his former boss and most powerful surrogate, President Obama.

They're trying to drive up turnout there, including with black voters. And then it's all eyes on Pennsylvania. Biden will be campaigning there on Sunday. And on Monday, the -- both candidates on the Democratic ticket and their spouses will be fanning out across the state, Pennsylvania critically important to their path to 270 electoral votes -- Jake.

[16:20:13]

TAPPER: I think you meant to say the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

SAENZ: The commonwealth, yes.

TAPPER: The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

(LAUGHTER)

TAPPER: All right, Arlette Saenz in Minnesota, thanks so much.

SAENZ: I'm smiling.

(LAUGHTER)

TAPPER: Thanks so much. Appreciate it.

Let's discuss. Gloria Borger, today, both Biden and Trump clearly focused on the Midwest, Trump hitting Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Biden, as we just said, in Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin.

Gloria, what does that tell you?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, it tells me that Joe Biden, in particular, is trying to shore up those Midwestern states that they feel that Hillary Clinton didn't pay enough attention to in 2016.

I mean, Biden's ahead in Minnesota, but he wants to make sure that he gets his voters out. And that is exactly what he's trying to do.

When you talk to the Trump campaign, what they will tell you is they believe that they have a great get-out-the-vote effort, and that their candidate is the great motivator, and that whatever we're seeing in the polls, we shouldn't pay any attention to, because they are going to make up the differential on Election Day.

And they believe that Donald Trump is the person who can do that, which is why you see him out there barnstorming like crazy in places that he won last time, sort of effectively putting his finger in the dike, trying to make sure that he can keep what he won with last time.

TAPPER: And, Abby, the Biden campaign also said they want to make Pennsylvania their critical focus on Monday.

Both Biden, Harris and their spouses will be campaigning in all four corners of the commonwealth. What do you make of that?

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania is obviously really central to...

(LAUGHTER)

TAPPER: I'm sorry. It's just a -- it's a very -- it's a very annoying habit of mine.

(LAUGHTER)

TAPPER: But go ahead. I apologize.

PHILLIP: Obviously, really central to the Biden strategy, both, frankly, honestly, offensively and defensively.

The Biden campaign knows that Pennsylvania is that tipping point state, that, if everything goes pretty well for them on the map, Pennsylvania can get them very quickly over 270.

On the other hand, if Donald Trump is able to get a lot of the states that he won last time, taking off -- taking out the Michigan, Wisconsin and Minnesota, taking that completely out of the equation, Pennsylvania is a key state for Trump too. And it makes his path to 270 a whole lot easier as well. This is a critical state that also signals what might happen in those

Upper Midwestern states. It's got parts of the state that have the same kind of DNA. And so, for the Biden campaign, this is a proving ground. They have got to show that they are competitive there, because what happens in Pennsylvania is going to be a harbinger of what is to come later on.

That is exactly what happened four years ago to Hillary Clinton. And they know that, for Biden, they can't let that happen this time around.

The one problem with this is that Pennsylvania, we already know, is going to take a while to count their votes. So, even while it might be a tipping point, it's going to be a late tipping point. We won't really know exactly where that state is for a little bit of a time.

BORGER: You know, it's no mistake...

TAPPER: Yes, go ahead.

BORGER: It's no mistake that you hear Joe Biden talk about how he's from Scranton, and how you hear the president talk about how he went to Wharton at the University of Pennsylvania.

And then the president says, well, Joe Biden really isn't from Scranton. He left you. He left you. And so, I mean, they're trying to use every connection they can to the state of Pennsylvania. And Biden believes that he has a better connection, as he believes he's a real populist, really connecting with working people.

And he believes, of course, that Trump is not.

TAPPER: And Trump is going to hold four rallies in Pennsylvania tomorrow, then five more on Sunday, five more on Monday.

BORGER: Yes.

TAPPER: That's 17 rallies all over the country, not just Pennsylvania, in four days. He's going to hit the Sunbelt and Rust Belt hard.

Abby, I think one of the theories of the case from the Trump campaign -- and let's be very clear -- Trump absolutely has a path to 270 electoral votes. He could definitely be reelected. I mean, it doesn't matter what the poll suggests. That's -- those are just odds and a snapshot.

What do you think that his theory of the case is, in terms of how he can win? Is it just going to these Trump areas, Abby, and getting the vote up as much as possible?

PHILLIP: Yes, I mean, the theory is that they have, as Gloria said, a superior turnout organization, that they can turn out Trump voters who are not being accounted for by the typical ways that we measure who's showing up on Election Day. The thing is that it is true that, four years ago, the president was

able to not only convert some kind of what I would describe as almost dormant Democratic voters, people who didn't really have much of a cultural tie to the Democratic Party and were sort of waiting for someone, and Donald Trump scooped them up.

[16:25:03]

He flipped some Obama voters. That is true too. But there were also some new voters. And you hear them talking a lot about people who are newly registered voters. They say that those people are much more likely to vote this time around, and, on top of that, they have the ground game to find them and to actually turn them out.

He's going to have to do that in an incredibly supercharged way in all of the places that are close. So, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Arizona, these are all places that are close that almost all of them, he has to win in.

BORGER: I mean, they really need to have an explosive Election Day turnout.

And the Trump campaign believes that that is exactly what they will have, and what we have seen in early voting, the advantage for Biden in many places, will dissipate completely.

TAPPER: Yes, we will see what happens. I mean, anything really could happen.

Gloria Borger, Abby Phillip, thank you so much.

Voters scrambling after a late decision in a crucial battleground state -- why the deadline for mailed-in ballots was suddenly moved up one whole week.

And the road to 270 has both candidates sprinting across the Upper Midwest, also ripping through that area, coronavirus.

Stay with us.

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[16:30:00]