Return to Transcripts main page

The Lead with Jake Tapper

The Road to 270; Trump Preparing Legal Challenges to Election Results. Aired 4-4:30p ET

Aired November 02, 2020 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:03]

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, Jake, Joe Biden held his very first campaign rally of his 2020 campaign right here in Pittsburgh.

And, at the time, he told his supporters that, if he's going to beat President Trump in 2020, it was going to happen right here. And they clearly still believe that that is the case, having Biden appear here in Pittsburgh in the waning hours of his campaign.

Pennsylvania is part of that blue wall that fell to President Trump back in 2016, and that Biden is hoping they can reestablish, with wins here in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan.

But before Biden traveled here to Pennsylvania, he made a quick stop in Cleveland, Ohio, a state that President Trump won by eight points back in 2016, but that the Biden campaign is hoping they can create some movement in. And he talked about what is at stake in this election.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When America votes, America will be heard. And when America is heard, I believe the message is going to be loud and clear. It's time for Donald Trump to pack his bags and go home.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

BIDEN: We're done. We're done with the chaos. We're done with the tweets, the anger, the hate, the failure, the irresponsibility. We have got a whole lot of work to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: Now, Biden's campaign manager, Jen O'Malley Dillon, today did a briefing with reporters to talk about election protection.

And she said that she believes the strength of their support and the signs that they have seen from early voting is going to put them in the driver's seat on Election Day, and that she's confident they are going to win. She also pushed back on these questions about whether President Trump would try to declare victory on election night.

And she said under no scenario will Donald Trump be declared the victor tomorrow night. Now, Biden in a few hours is going to be here in Pittsburgh holding that drive-in event at the end of the evening with his wife. And also Lady Gaga is performing.

And just showing how important Pennsylvania is to Biden, tomorrow, he will be trying to get out the vote in Scranton and in Philadelphia, showing how much value he is placing on this commonwealth -- Jake.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: All right, Arlette Saenz in Pittsburgh, thanks so much.

President Trump is on a final five-rally spree on this election eve.

And, as CNN's Kaitlan Collins reports for us now, the president is already promising to mount legal challenges of the election results.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the final frenzy before Election Day, President Trump is holding five rallies in four states that are critical to his reelection.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Tomorrow, we are going to win this state, and we are going to win four more years.

COLLINS: With stops in North Carolina, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin, the incumbent president is also laying the groundwork to challenge the results of the election if it doesn't go his way.

TRUMP: Pennsylvania, the long period of time, do you know what can happen? Number one, cheating can happen like you have never seen. This is that dream.

COLLINS: Trump has already vowed to mount a legal challenge before all votes in Pennsylvania can be counted, which could take days, as a high volume of mail-in ballots are being tabulated.

TRUMP: I think it's a terrible decision by the Supreme Court, a terrible decision. Now, I don't know if that's going to be changed, because we're going to go in the night of. As soon as that election is over, we're going in with our lawyers.

COLLINS: In the courts and on television, the president and his allies are attempting to limit how long states have to count mail-in ballots.

The president has demanded that votes stop being counted after Election Day, something that has never happened in any election in this nation's history.

TRUMP: Get your ballots in and have them in long before the 3rd and have them counted before the 3rd, and have an election where we can say to the world that we know who won and we know who lost.

COLLINS: Sources say Trump's only goal? Not becoming a one-term president.

TRUMP: We're tied? How the hell? How can I be tied?

COLLINS: During his battleground blitz, the president has dismissed the ongoing pandemic and last night in Florida suggested he will fire one of the nation's most trusted medical voices.

AUDIENCE: Fire Fauci! Fire Fauci! Fire Fauci! Fire Fauci!

TRUMP: Don't tell anybody, but let me wait until a little bit after the election, please.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: I appreciate the advice.

COLLINS: Dr. Anthony Fauci is a career civil servant, which means Trump cannot fire him directly, but would have to have someone like the HHS secretary or director of National Institutes of Health do so instead.

TRUMP: He's a nice man, though. He's been wrong on a lot.

COLLINS: The president criticizing Fauci, while offering nothing but praise for his supporters who swarmed a Biden/Harris but on a Texas interstate this weekend.

[16:05:07]

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED) Look at that.

COLLINS: The FBI confirmed it's investigating the incident. But Trump claimed that wasn't necessary because -- quote -- "In my opinion, these patriots did nothing wrong."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: Now, Jake, at all these rallies the president has been attending today, it's really been an airing of grievances from him.

In North Carolina, he said that people should go out and vote, but only if they're going to vote for him, and that politicians who say you should vote regardless of who you're voting for are -- -- quote -- "such liars."

And he just wrapped up in Pennsylvania, where he offered a warning to the governor, saying that he's going to be watching Tom Wolf tomorrow as those votes are coming in and as ballots are being counted, of course, Jake, as the president has continued to focus on Pennsylvania, as he is casting doubt on what's going to happen tomorrow night.

And now he is headed for Michigan. And then, of course, he will be here in Wisconsin after that, Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Kaitlan Collins, thank you so much.

Let's chat about this with our team.

Two legal losses today for Republican challengers involving the election that's just hours away, perhaps just a preview of what's to come.

Amanda, more than 96 million ballots have been cast so far nationwide, more than 70 percent of the total ballots cast in the last presidential election. Beyond the pandemic, why do you think so many people are so motivated?

AMANDA CARPENTER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think this is a huge testament to the American people.

We're in this great period of not knowing what happens next. But I think everybody can look at those numbers on the screen and have faith, because we have seen our institutions attacked by leaders to a degree I have never seen in my life, certainly, where people don't have faith in institutions.

But the millions of people who are turning out to vote, saying, I believe in my right to vote, and they're saying it now more than ever. And we do not know what is going to happen. But those numbers give me faith the outcome will be determined by the people and not a bunch of lawyers wrangling in the backroom.

TAPPER: And, Scott, in most states, it seems as though Democrats are disproportionally voting by mail or early, while Republicans are going to vote on Election Day.

That is, of course, a risky strategy for the Republicans, because it depends upon people turning out and going in person one day, as opposed to the early operation or vote by mail. Do you have any concerns about that?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Not really. I mean, this is a -- traditionally, Republicans like to vote on Election Day. I have actually been heartened, frankly, by some of the reports of the in person voting in the early period that Republicans have been doing in certain states.

I, frankly, didn't expect that many Republicans to take advantage of any of the early avenues. But the fact that they have is a good thing.

There is no doubt, though, Jake, in every poll I have seen, public and private, in all these important states, you're going to see Republicans turning out in droves on Election Day. And that, of course, is vital for them to have any chance to win. And that goes for the president or for any of these Senate races.

And so that's what we will be looking for is, can they make up the difference in what's happened in this early period in a lot of critical battleground areas.

TAPPER: Governor Granholm, you used to lead the state of Michigan. It's a state Donald Trump won by just about 10,000 votes in 2016, where he's going to campaign in the next hour. Do you think Michigan is going to go for Joe Biden?

JENNIFER GRANHOLM, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I do.

I think that what you're seeing across the country, you're seeing it in Michigan, is that people are fed up, and they are standing in line and doing what they can to express this great privilege we have of voting .And they're not doing it because they want the status quo.

Of course, there are a lot of people who want the status quo, but not enough to overcome the number of people who feel like we are headed down the wrong track. And it's not just the polls, Jake, that tell you that. It is really -- I mean, if you look in at 2018, there was a 6 percent move of the electorate toward the Democrats, because people are -- they have had it. They have had it with this president.

So, this is the -- I just love this Super Bowl, the expression of people all across the country to take their country back. The politicians will have had their say, and now it's the voters' turn to take their country back. That's an inspiration.

TAPPER: Amanda, the Trump campaign has...

CARPENTER: Jake, there's a looming...

TAPPER: Go ahead.

CARPENTER: No, I just -- there is a looming question here, though, that I want to take a second to dwell on about the right to vote.

The Trump campaign has launched an unprecedented effort to limit balloting, limit options to the balloting, saying we shouldn't use drop-off boxes, we can't go through the drive-throughs.

And I just -- we need to ponder that. Why? Why is anyone seeking to limit the right to vote? And that we should be so proud of these states and localities that expanded options, in the form of drop-off boxes and drive-through voting, and I hope that stuff is here to stay.

[16:10:05]

But the Republican Party has a lot to answer for here, in the fact that they're saying, no, and Trump is out there saying, well, I just want to focus on the votes cast on Election Day.

That -- that needs to go to the dustbin of history, regardless of who wins this election, because everyone should be on the side of wanting people to vote. And I fear that a lot of Republicans have gone off that.

TAPPER: Well, and, Scott, let me ask you about that, because there is this idea being floated by Trump campaign officials and even the president himself that he's going to come out and declare victory based on the Election Day votes, and then try to stop the legally cast vote-by-mail votes, which, in some places like Pennsylvania or in Wisconsin, are not going to be counted until that day and will take longer. And that fits in with what Amanda is saying. Shouldn't we be trying to

-- and shouldn't everybody, including the president and the Republican Party, be trying to count every valid ballot, period?

JENNINGS: Yes, I mean, basically, if you're an American, and you're legal to vote in this election, and you cast your vote, or you think you have in the legally accepted way, according to your state and location, your vote should be counted.

And I recognize that, in some states, that's going to take a few days longer. This is not unusual. It happened this way in previous elections. We just saw it in 2018, in fact, where a few days were required in a few states.

So I actually don't think it's a very good message of confidence that you would be projecting that you want to stop counting ballots at a certain point. I mean, you can't count forever. And I do think that there will be -- look, I mean, Hillary Clinton advised Joe Biden just the other day never to concede under any circumstance.

And so there are Democrats too out there who I think are looking at what happens on election night in the period beyond. But both parties ought to have the same position. Every legal vote should be counted, and it should be counted in an efficient manner, but in a manner that gives us confidence that we had a free and fair election, because, ultimately, no matter who wins or loses, that's what I want, is a free and fair election that we can all have confidence in.

TAPPER: And, Governor Granholm, it's...

GRANHOLM: Jake, this...

TAPPER: Go ahead, yes.

GRANHOLM: I was just going to say, I'm glad to hear Scott say that. Scott is often a rational Republican.

However, his party has not taken that position. And this decision in Texas is really encouraging. This was a George Bush-appointed federal judge that was filed following an all-Republican Texas Supreme Court that also said these votes should be counted.

However, the party itself and the activists, the reason why you see -- it is a holistic strategy, as Amanda was alluding to, whether it is shutting down polling sites, whether it is making it difficult once you arrive at the ballot box, whether it is comparing signatures and challenging every one.

This notion that, in America, you should make it difficult to vote is ridiculous. So, I'm very encouraged that we are seeing this. And, by the way, nobody -- I think you said this yesterday, Jake, that it's not -- I mean, it's not like the coach can all of a sudden say in the middle of the game, hey, I won, before the final score is tallied.

He can't -- I mean, Donald Trump cannot do that. It's the most ridiculous thing ever, nor could Joe Biden do it. Every vote will be counted.

TAPPER: Yes.

GRANHOLM: It's going to be fair, and we're going to watch to see the final result.

Take a chill pill, everybody, because there are 10,000 voting districts across this country. They have been doing it this way for years, counting it. They know how to resolve it. It's going to be OK.

TAPPER: Three of my favorite panelists.

Thanks for being here. And we will talk tomorrow a little bit more about all of this, as the exercise in the experiment of America plays out in front of the world. Thanks so much for being here.

The road to 270. As anxiety mounts among supporters of both candidates, we're going to take a look at the map and what it will take to secure a victory.

And as cities prepare for potential post-election violence, we're going to -- talk about why President Trump continues to try and undermine the very notion of the democratic process.

Former National Security Adviser Ambassador John Bolton is ahead.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:18:30]

TAPPER: And we're back with our 2020 lead.

Today, President Trump and Joe Biden are making their final trips and stops to the campaign, hoping to motivate every last voter to turn out before polls close tomorrow evening.

CNN political director David Chalian joins me now at the Magic Wall.

And, David, with just a few hours to go until Election Day, walk us through the possible paths to victory for each candidate. Let's start with Joe Biden.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, this is our electoral map, Jake. And it has our race ratings. Everything red, solid red, Republicans are likely to have it, the blue states Democrats likely to have.

All the yellow is our lean states and our toss-up states.

And Joe Biden's path is this one. First, hold the Clinton states, Nevada, Colorado, Minnesota, New Hampshire. Make sure you hold those Clinton states from 2016, and then go to that blue wall that Donald Trump busted through that Democrats before 2016 had held, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin. And that does it. That gets Joe Biden there. And the reason I say that

that may be his easiest path, look at the average of the polls in those states, 52-42 Biden, Trump in Wisconsin, average of the Michigan polls, a nine-point lead, 51-42, Pennsylvania closer, 50-44, Jake.

That's why, if Donald Trump were to hang on to Pennsylvania, then Joe Biden's at 258. This is what we mean by Joe Biden has multiple paths. Where would he go then if Donald Trump hangs onto Pennsylvania?

Well, take a look at those Sunbelt states. Joe Biden is very much in the hunt. These are toss-up, margin of error states, 50-46, 49-46 in Florida, Georgia 49-46, Arizona 49-46.

[16:20:07]

But here's the thing. Joe Biden, if he were to take Florida, that does it. If Donald Trump held onto that, Joe Biden, he could take Georgia. That would do it, assuming he gets Michigan and Wisconsin, of course. North Carolina, if Joe Biden got it, that single state would do it. Let's say Donald Trump holds onto that.

I mean, you can just see there are multiple paths for Joe Biden to 270.

TAPPER: And what does Trump need to do to be reelected?

CHALIAN: Yes, well, let's go back to Donald Trump's 2016 map.

That's what this is, Jake. And this is what he's looking to recreate. So, this is what he needs to do. But let's say -- you just saw those Midwestern polls -- that Michigan and Wisconsin do indeed fall to Joe Biden, OK, and Pennsylvania as well.

Let's say that blue wall is rebuilt, just like Joe Biden has promised it will be. That brings Donald Trump down to 260. Where does he go next? He actually has to do something sort of defying more gravity in politics, go to a Clinton state, like Minnesota, and that would do it. Let's say Biden holds on there.

Maybe a combination of Nevada and New Hampshire, that would do it. But if Donald Trump loses that blue wall that he broke through four years ago, he really has to dig into even deeper Democratic territory, places Hillary Clinton won four years ago.

TAPPER: And, of course, it's not just a presidential election. It's also a House and Senate election, and more, of course,.

How much a president is able to get done is so tied to the balance of power in Congress. What states are you watching to decide the balance of power in the Senate where it's really up for grabs?

CHALIAN: Yes, so this is the Senate map.

You see right now we actually have already given a win to the Democrats in Colorado, because John Hickenlooper is ahead of Cory Gardner, the incumbent there, and we have given a win to the Republicans, Tommy Tuberville in Alabama, against incumbent Doug Jones.

And what you have is, Dems are at 47. They need to get to 51. They are looking at places like Iowa, seeing if they can defeat Joni Ernst, the incumbent there, with Theresa Greenfield. Susan Collins in Maine, that's a key target. If the Democrats win there, they'd be well on their way. They'd be at 49.

Then they're looking at North Carolina, the race between incumbent Thom Tillis and Cal Cunningham. And they are looking, of course, in Arizona, one of their best shots to convert a seat the Democrats, Mark Kelly over Martha McSally. Those four states would do it. They're not at all a certain thing. They are very close.

So, that would be the easiest path for the Democrats. But easy, it won't be, Jake.

TAPPER: All right, David Chalian, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

Concerns about election related-violence across the country. What the governor of Pennsylvania is telling people about the vote-counting process.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:27:37]

TAPPER: Back now with our 2020 lead.

It could all come down to the great Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, but it may be days before a winner is declared there. The state won't be -- start counting any of the more than two million ballots already cast until the morning of Election Day.

Some counties in Pennsylvania plan to not even begin counting mail-in ballots until the following day, Wednesday.

CNN's Sara Murray is in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.

Sara, both the secretary of state and the governor there are calling on counties to start counting ballots tomorrow, Election Day, but there still are some holdouts there. What's the latest?

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's right, Jake.

Look, they know that this is going to be a long process in Pennsylvania, no matter what. This is the first time the state has allowed anyone to vote by mail, you don't need a reason, you don't need an excuse, you can just request a mail-in ballot.

And a lot of people have done so. In the past, in Pennsylvania, you have seen 248,000 people vote by mail, 266,000 people vote by mail. This time, more than 2.4 million applications have all -- or ballots have already been returned. So, this is a really sizable number. This is why the governor and the

secretary of state are saying, look, when it comes 7:00 a.m. on Election Day, start opening those ballots, start flattening them, start putting them through the scanner, so that we can get this done as quickly as possible.

But we know that there are at least nine counties that are going to wait until the morning after Election Day until they start this process. This could delay the count a little bit further. These don't tend to be the biggest counties. The biggest counties have multiple shifts and are planning on counting these mail-in ballots all night long.

But it certainly could delay things in what is already expected to be a very long night in the Keystone State -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Sara Murray, thanks so much, Sara Murray in the great city of Harrisburg.

President Trump is falsely acting as though any ballot not counted by tomorrow night is not legitimate. That's not true. But it's apparently part of his strategy to prematurely and falsely declare victory tomorrow, based entirely on in person votes tomorrow.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We should know the result of the election on November 3, the evening of November 3.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: We're going to go in the night of. As soon as that election is over, we're going in with our lawyers.

If people wanted to get their ballots in, they should have gotten that ballots in long before that.

JASON MILLER, TRUMP 2020 CAMPAIGN SENIOR ADVISER: If you speak with many smart Democrats, they believe that President Trump will be ahead on election night, probably getting 280 electoral, somewhere in that range.

And then they're going to try to steal it back after the election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[16:30:00]