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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Republicans Lose Cases to Discount Legal Votes; Interview With Former U.S. National Security Adviser John Bolton. Aired 4:30-5p ET

Aired November 02, 2020 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:30:02]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JASON MILLER, TRUMP 2020 CAMPAIGN SENIOR ADVISER: And then they're going to try to steal it back after the election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Counting ballots is not stealing the election, regardless of what Trump campaign individuals say.

And this is not the way elections work, what you just heard from President Trump and his campaign adviser. Votes are always counted after Election Day. Many states accept balance postmarked by Election Day in the days after, including Republican-run states, such as Mississippi or West Virginia.

This is exactly how active-duty members of the U.S. military vote in many states.

Here to discuss all of this, former National Security Adviser to President Trump Ambassador John Bolton. He's also the author of the book "The Room Where It Happened."

Ambassador Bolton, what the president is saying here about everything needs to be counted by tomorrow night, that's not accurate.

Why do you think he's saying this?

JOHN BOLTON, FORMER U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Because I think he's trying to set up a fraud, a con on his own supporters and the entire electoral system to justify actions that he's contemplating taking after the polls have closed.

And he's playing on the popular misconception that, when they hear TV networks announce that state X has been carried by candidate A, that, in fact, things are decided on the night of the election, which is not true, and almost never is on the same day.

And I think his surrogates -- and you just had one on -- fully understand that this is a lie. And they're -- this is such blatant deception. I really think this is a critical moment for the Republican Party, for the elected leaders. It's kind of a character test to say, we do not accept the idea that Trump can get away with this. TAPPER: Well, Ambassador Bolton, I agree with you. I have only seen

you, Scott Jennings in our panel a few minutes ago, and the lieutenant governor of Utah say anything about this.

And this is just anti-democratic. It's not up to a president to say, I have one, I'm president, if they're still counting ballots.

What happened? Where's your party?

BOLTON: Yes.

Well, I think -- I think -- as I say, I think it's a character test. This reminds me of nothing so much as the Al Gore strategy that we feared in Florida in 2000, that the Democrats wanted to keep counting, keep counting in Florida, until just on one count, somehow they got ahead. Then they'd say, this has gone on long enough, we don't need to do the counting anymore.

That was a fraudulent strategy then. It's a fraudulent strategy for Trump today. And I think it's important for Republicans to separate themselves from Trump on this very, very quickly, because, looking forward, if Trump loses, this is just one more problem for the party, one more albatross around our neck caused by Trump.

TAPPER: Now, President Trump said he will likely take legal action if he believes the election is conducted unfairly, especially in Pennsylvania.

I mean, there isn't even anything to take legal action -- I mean, they have been, by the way of. They have been suing and allies of the president have been suing and losing court cases against the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. I think the attorney general there is like six for six.

But what's your reaction when you hear him say that?

BOLTON: Well, I think this is the way he conducts business. He threatens to stop books from being published and...

TAPPER: Right.

BOLTON: ... and has the Justice Department do it. I mean, this is part of a pattern. He loves to litigate.

And the only answer, I think, is that we will see in court.

But I think we should also say, the state of Pennsylvania has conducted malpractice here by having it, whether it's by statute or by regulation, none of these mail-in ballots can be counted until beginning on Election Day. That's ridiculous.

I voted by mail in Maryland. I have a nice e-mail from the state of Maryland on Saturday saying my vote has already been counted. Pennsylvania and other states should have been doing the same thing. It would minimize the chances for Trump to cause this disarray.

TAPPER: Yes, I don't disagree.

I think the Democratic governor there, Wolf, tried to have that happen, and the Republican legislature would not -- they would not go along with it. They would not change election law, which says that you can only start counting tomorrow.

If President Trump loses, do you think, first of all, before we even get into how President Trump will behave, do you think the fact that he's setting up this false premise that he can only lose if there's fraud -- and that's -- look, he could win tomorrow. Who knows?

But it's certainly not the case that he can only lose if there's fraud. Do you think this risks causing violence and serious unrest?

BOLTON: Well, I don't think it should.

I mean, each state has its own system. Actually, Democratic Governor Granholm gave the right advice earlier on your show, saying everybody should just calm down, take a deep breath, because, ironically, the president has the same interest in causing chaos as the extreme left in this country does.

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And it's all the rest of us who are going to be harmed by it. So, again, for me, it's important for public confidence in the process generally, but also for Republicans to say, we don't accept that Trump speaks for us in this regard.

TAPPER: And I know you're concerned about a peaceful transfer of power, that you have said, you told me before on air, that you don't think he's going to go graciously if he loses.

BOLTON: No.

No, look, I think it's going to be a problem. And I'm worried not just about the counting of votes. I think, if he loses, if it looks like he's going to lose after Election Day, I think he's going to cause disruption to his own administration. A lot of people have speculated, if he wins, who will get fired from the Cabinet and other senior government official -- government positions.

I think he could do that even if he loses, for example, Christopher Wray, the director of the FBI, removing Dr. Fauci, moving him to a different position. I just think that this is sort of an act of self- torture on Trump's part, but I think it's entirely possible that, to show his displeasure, this is the kind of thing we risk during the transition period.

TAPPER: And, lastly, like, I understand why he's doing this. He's trying to sow division. He's trying to sow chaos. He's trying to create doubt about the end of the election. This is just who he is.

But how would you describe it? I mean, it seems to me just to be fundamentally undemocratic to say that legally cast ballots should not count, and he's going to declare victory and try to sow chaos. I have never heard of such a thing.

BOLTON: Well, it's certainly unpresidential to attack the integrity of the entire American electoral system.

I mean, he's not some outsider. This is a responsibility that an incumbent president has to give confidence to the American people. And he may regard that as a disadvantage, but the incumbency itself is a huge advantage for him.

And for him to behave this way brings discredit on him and brings discredit on the government. Again, I would say, let's call it by what it is. This is fraud.

TAPPER: All right, Ambassador John Bolton, always good to see you. Thank you so much, sir. Appreciate your time.

BOLTON: Thank you.

TAPPER: Two judges, two different states, two Republican claims about counting ballots both rejected on election eve.

The breaking news next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:42:03]

TAPPER: We have some breaking news for you in our 2020 lead.

Republicans just last two court battles today, one in Texas and one in Nevada, both seeking to limit some of the ballots that have already been cast.

CNN's Ana Cabrera joins me now.

Ana, first, let's talk about Texas, where Republicans were trying to throw out tens of thousands of votes cast at drive-through polling sites in the area around Houston, a traditionally Democratic area.

Tell us more.

ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: Well, Jake, let me just explain.

The judge in this case saying these votes should count. And so this is a big victory for the voters there in Texas who cast their ballots early at one of these drive-through voting locations. And it impacts about 127,000 votes.

Again, this is in Harris County, Texas, specifically, so the Houston area, this Democratic stronghold, and we're told it represents about 10 percent of the early votes cast in person.

Now, Republicans had wanted these drive-through votes thrown out because they argued local officials couldn't change state rules. Local officials had set up these temporary drive-through sites as to special accommodations because of the coronavirus. And the judge saying today -- quote -- "When you balance the harms, you have got to weigh in favor of that, in counting the votes. I don't find harm to the defendant."

And the Harris County clerk says they do intend to have these drive- through locations set up again tomorrow on Election Day, and says those votes will be counted.

But the judge here cautioning voters perhaps not to do drive-through voting tomorrow, because Republicans can still appeal this ruling -- Jake.

TAPPER: That's a -- it's a defeat for Republicans. It's also a victory for voters and their ability to have their votes counted.

CABRERA: Exactly.

TAPPER: We also got a decision from another battleground state, Nevada, where Republicans wanted to change some of the voting procedures. Tell us more about that.

CABRERA: A judge there in Nevada rejected this GOP lawsuit that was seeking to halt the early vote counting in Clark County, which includes Las Vegas. Roughly 70 percent of Nevada's voters live there in Clark County.

Now, Republicans were challenging the procedures for processing these ballots. It had to do with signature-matching computer software and just how closely the observers can watch the votes being counted.

Lawyers for the Trump campaign had claimed that their observers were not given enough access to all the aspects of the ballot-counting process, like opening the envelopes, checking the signatures.

But a judge here basically said that these concerns were not backed up by evidence of any harm done, and said the local election officials had fulfilled their legal duties. So, the counting continues.

And, Jake, worth noting, in both of these states, Nevada and Texas, these are obviously crucial states this election. And the early voting turnout was just incredible, off the charts, surpassing the total votes cast in both of those states specifically four years ago in the 2016 election.

TAPPER: All right, Ana Cabrera, thank you so much for that update. Appreciate it.

Earlier today, President Trump made a stop in North Carolina. That's a true battleground state that President Obama flipped blue by less than 1 percentage point in 2008. But then he lost it in 2012.

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And President Trump took it back in 2016 as well by again a slim margin, just above 3 percent.

CNN's Dianne Gallagher joins us now live from Raleigh.

Dianne, what's the mood in North Carolina today? Any -- any indication from voters how they think the state's going to go this time?

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So, I will tell you, Jake, in talking to both Republicans and Democrats, they're optimistic, but I would say that Republicans become a little more cautiously optimistic the closer we have gotten to election day as they have seen their numbers starting to close in on Democrats when it comes to early voting.

Now, North Carolina has posted astronomical early voting numbers. Roughly 4.6 million people have already cast ballots. That's more than 95 percent of the total 2016 turnout. But the key in North Carolina is just how close this is between former Vice President Joe Biden and President Donald Trump.

Biden is polling just a little bit ahead of Trump here, but really, it's been neck and neck leading up to it. This is a true battleground state that the Trump camp really needs to have in its win column. So it's been pushing hard to try and get its voter to come out on Election Day.

The key is going to be the registered, unaffiliated voters. There is more than a third of North Carolina's voters are registered in that way. So, they're not really sure how they're going to break. On top of that, 44 percent of them have still yet to cast a ballot. So there's plenty out there to come out and vote.

One more thing that makes North Carolina so important here to those parties, the Senate race. When I talk to people here about the election, I bring up Biden, I bring up Trump, they bring up incumbent Republican Thom Tillis and challenger Democrat Cal Cunningham. That Senate race is motivating a lot of people, including those parties, and a lot of money here in the state of North Carolina right now, Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Dianne Gallagher in Raleigh, North Carolina, thanks so much.

We have some breaking news for you now. In our world lead, police in Vienna, Austria, say one person has been killed and several others injured in a shooting in the city. Austria's foreign minister calling the incident a terror attack involving multiple suspects.

Let's get right to CNN's Fred Pleitgen.

Fred, what can you tell us about the attack?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDEN: Hi there, Jake.

And it certainly seems like this is an unfolding situation in the Austrian capital of Vienna. We've been monitoring Austrian state TV (ph), of course, in touch with the authorities there was well. They said that were at least six locations in the inner part of Vienna where shots have been fired. They said that there multiple perpetrators with what they call long weapons. which essentially means rifles, and at least one person, a passerby deceased, has been killed and then also one of the perpetrators was chased down and killed by the police as well.

Now, Jake, we know that there are several other victims, who are -- some of them in very severe condition. And we know that one of the people who's in a very severe condition is actually an Austrian police officer.

Now, what's going on in Vienna right now is the police, they're still searching for some of these suspects. What we're hearing on the ground is there's police cordon everywhere. There's also several choppers in the air, not just the inner city of Vienna, but also in some of the outer districts as well.

The interior minister of Austria is saying that this is a terror attack, he says it's ongoing. He says they don't know exactly how many perpetrators there are, but he certainly says that it's several and that some of them could still be on the loose, Jake.

TAPPER: All right. A developing story, we'll bring more to you. Thanks, Fred Pleitgen. Appreciate it.

Coming up, ahead of the election, the president suggests if he wins, he might fire Dr. Anthony Fauci. The nation's top infectious disease expert, as the president's new favorite doc speaks to a Russian propaganda machine.

Stay with us.

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[16:53:07]

TAPPER: More than 81,000 coronavirus cases were reported yesterday in the U.S. That's the worst number in any Sunday of the pandemic so far, and the country is now averaging more than 820 deaths every day. That's an increase of 15 percent in just won month, as CNN's Nick Watt now reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. LEANA WEN, FORMER BALTIMORE CITY HEALTH COMMISSIONER: We are breaking records all over the place here.

DR. JONATHAN WEINER, PROFESSOR OF MEDICINE, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY: And there's no sign that we're anywhere close to peaking.

WILLIAM HASELTINE, CHAIRMAN & PRESIDENT, ACCESS HEALTH INTERNATIONAL: The virus doesn't get tired. It just keeps ongoing. It's looking for new opportunities.

NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In just the past month, the average daily case count in the U.S. has near doubled -- now averaging over 80,000 new infections for the first time ever. Friday, the U.S. set a global record -- 99,321 cases in one day. Nearly as many cases as Japan has suffered total, over 283 days.

WEN: The real reason we may be close to another shutdown now is because of failure by the Trump administration to take this seriously.

WATT: In 16 states, a record number of COVID patients in the hospital over the weekend.

MAYOR JAMES BOYD, DE PERE, WISCONSIN: We need everybody to buy in. Whatever we're doing now just isn't working.

WATT: And nationwide, we're in for a whole lot of hurt.

Dr. Fauci told "The Washington Post", you could not be positioned more poorly.

The president now threatening he might fire Fauci if he wins tomorrow.

CROWD (chanting): Fire Fauci, fire Fauci, fire Fauci, fire Fauci!

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Don't tell might be, but let me wait until a little bit after the election please.

WATT: Fact check, he can't, not directly. Although he could ask Fauci from the White House Coronavirus Task Force, which barely functions any way.

On the trail, the president still maligning medical workers.

TRUMP: But, you know, our doctors get more money if somebody dies from COVID. You know that, right?

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So, what they do is say, I'm sorry, but, you know, everybody dies of COVID.

WATT: Nope, zero evidence doctors are inflating death tolls to make money. More disinformation in the midst of a pandemic that this country actually has the power to control.

REINER: There's an easy way to turn this around and there's a really hard way to turn this around. The easy way to turn this around is for everyone to wear a mask. The hard way to turn this around is to start shutting down our economy again.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WATT: Now, file this under what not to do. There's an election night party at the White House tomorrow night. Sources tell us maybe 400 people inside. They say they will be testing but on the invitation, no mention of masks -- Jake.

TAPPER: Yeah.

All right. Nick Watt, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

CNN's chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins me now.

Sanjay, let's start with the fact that the president is out there not just undermining the nation's top infectious disease expert, Dr. Anthony Fauci, but suggesting he might fire him after the election.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, I mean, I think this is still more bark worse than bite, Jake. I mean, it's not the first time, you know, he's talked about this.

Back in July, he was -- the president was retweeting, you know, these fire Fauci hashtag, tweets back then, even. And Francis Collins, who is the head of the NIH, and, really, Dr. Fauci's boss was even asked about this back in July and said, you know, we're dealing with a guy who's arguably the best guy on the planet right now to help navigate us through a pandemic. Why would we think about firing him is sort of his response?

Also, Jake, you know, you and I both know this but people may not realize that Doc -- we're used to seeing Dr. Fauci as someone who talks to the public about the pandemic but his job really as a scientific lead on therapeutics, on vaccines, all those other things. So, there's tangible work that he does that's, you know, behind the scenes as well that we all could benefit from.

So I think it's a terrible idea, obviously, and I think it's just an empty threat.

TAPPER: Yeah, but, I mean, we live in the upside down. He's against Fauci, but he's in favor of Scott Atlas who says a bunch of things that are so falsely -- Twitter even censors them about masks.

GUPTA: Yeah.

TAPPER: Let me ask you a question about some things that might be an interest to our viewers right now, should people anticipate having to stay home for the holidays and to stay in their little own pods of their families or just themselves or do you think there's a safe way at all to gather in small groups?

GUPTA: I think it's really hard to gather in small groups right now. I mean, you know, we -- there's just too much virus circulating. As you start to increase the number of people that you're interacting with that haven't been part of your bubble in some way, the chance of you encountering the virus starts to go up significantly. I mean, that's just the fact of the matter.

And, you know, if you start bringing people in from other locations -- I had this conversation with our own family -- there's always risks of that. And then, you know, what are you going to do? Are you going to physically distance, you know, the entire holiday gathering? I mean, add some wine into the mix, are people still going stay physically distanced? You're going to keep your masks on?

Point is, I think it's just too cumbersome right now. Is there a way to do it? Could you quarantine yourself now after being tested, test yourself again, and then arrive and essentially do what the NFL and the NBA did in terms of creating a bubble? Yeah, but that's a lot of work, Jake, and I don't think it's something most people can do.

TAPPER: Especially if you had -- we're talking about my parents, your parents, seniors, people who are especially vulnerable.

GUPTA: That's right.

TAPPER: You have some new reporting on how the dose of the coronavirus a person contracts may determine how sick they get?

GUPTA: Yeah, this is really interesting. I mean, so, viral dose and viral load -- two terms. Viral dose is how much you might be exposed to, viral load, how much you are carrying in your nose, in your mouth at any given time that might make you more contagious.

And what this -- some of this research basically suggests is that, you know, trying to answer the question, why do some people get so sick from this, other people seem to have minimal or no symptoms? It may have a lot to do with the dose of the virus that you take in, how much of an inoculum you actually received.

And, again, this goes without saying, one way to lower the amount of virus that you're putting out into the environment, you may not know that you're doing it. You then get tested, you have no symptoms, one way to lower it is to wear a mask. But I just thought it was really interesting research to sort of look at -- determining how likely someone is to get sick from what exposures and what you can do about it.

TAPPER: And we should just note that the U.S. set a new global record for daily cases, nearly 100,000 new cases just on Friday, Sanjay. It's just astounding. It keeps getting worse. No new leadership, no new ideas about how to contain this, just pretending it's not happening.

GUPTA: Yeah. I mean -- and it's a fast-moving, you know, ship with lots of inertia now. It can still be stopped. It can be slowed down, but you got to hit the brakes now, Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks so much.

And I'll be back here tomorrow for CNN's live coverage of election night in America. It starts at 4:00 Eastern.

Our coverage on CNN meanwhile continues right now as we head into Election Eve. Stay with us. I'll see you tomorrow, 4:00.

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