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The Lead with Jake Tapper

COVID-19 Vaccine Available to All Americans By April?; Interview With National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases Director Dr. Anthony Fauci; Trump Refuses to Acknowledge Election Loss. Aired 4-4:30p ET

Aired November 10, 2020 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: President-elect Joe Biden this afternoon says outgoing President Trump's refusal to concede the election is -- quote -- "an embarrassment."

[16:00:04]

Biden assured Americans that he is moving forward with the transition with or without President Trump's help.

And he said the Republican Senate is -- quote -- "mildly intimidated" by President Trump, as some Republicans and top allies are enabling outgoing President Trump's denial of the reality.

President-elect Biden took calls today from the leaders of Germany, France, Ireland, and the U.K. But the calls were not patched through the U.S. State Department, as traditionally would happen, because the Trump administration is still refusing to allow the transition process to begin.

And this is not necessarily just a matter of letting the president's legal remedies play out in courts. Some members of the Trump administration are signaling that they're unwilling to accept the results of the democratic process.

It can be, frankly, chilling to hear. Take Secretary of State Mike Pompeo this afternoon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: Is the State Department currently preparing to engage with the Biden transition team? And, if not, at what point does it delay, hamper a smooth transition or pose a risk to national security?

MIKE POMPEO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: There will be a smooth transition to a second Trump administration.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: "A smooth transition to a second Trump administration."

That is madness. And at the same time Secretary Pompeo was saying that, Vice President Mike Pence was on Capitol Hill detailing all the Trump lawsuits and supposed voter fraud at the GOP Senate lunch.

The White House is also now currently firing top officials at the Pentagon and replacing them with fierce loyalists. And most Republican officials in Washington are going along with this.

Here's Senator Ron Johnson, the chairman of the Senate Homeland Security Committee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: Senator, have you congratulated Vice President Biden yet?

SEN. RON JOHNSON (R-WI): No.

QUESTION: Why not?

JOHNSON: There's nothing to congratulate him about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: "There's nothing to congratulate him about," Johnson says.

Senator Roy Blunt, a member of Senate Republican leadership, said today that President Trump -- quote -- "may not have been defeated at all" -- unquote.

Let's be clear. President Trump was defeated. He lost substantially in the popular vote and substantially in the Electoral College. Now, yes, we are all waiting for the counts to be officially completed and the results to be certified by the states, as happens every four years.

But this thing is done. Democratic Senator Chris Coons said today that his Republican colleagues are privately asking him to pass on congratulations to president-elect Biden because they cannot do so publicly.

This is not just cowardly. It is dangerous.

Now, I have spent some time today talking to Republican officials on both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue. And what they say is, no one out there should worry that our democracy is in actual jeopardy. They say this is all part of walking President Trump through this process emotionally, and that they assume that, while he may never concede, he will leave, there will be, they say, a peaceful transition of power to the Biden/Harris administration on January 20.

They say that, but they say it on background because they don't want to upset President Trump and they don't want to get death threats from his supporters.

Now, you may or may not find that reassuring.

Either way, Secretary Pompeo, Senators Johnson and Blunt and all the others enabling this fiction that the president may have won the election, they are continuing to put their loyalty to President Trump ahead of their loyalty to the United States of America and to the American people, who deserve the truth about this election, not more divisive lies that terrify one-half of the nation and misinform and thus outrage the other half.

Our correspondents are covering all angles of this story.

First, let's go to CNN's Jeff Zeleny, who questioned the president- elect today.

And, Jeff, boy, he was really downplaying what Republicans are doing here, instead saying he can do this transition without the money, the intelligence briefings, and, frankly, without the Trump concession.. What is the strategy here?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Jake, he did have the look of a triumphant winner. And he brushed aside Republican resistance saying, he knows that they're intimidated by the president.

And, frankly, instead of spending his time on the phone with Republicans, he spent it on the phone with world leaders, and he said his message for them is simple: America is back.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZELENY (voice-over): President-elect Joe Biden moving forward today to build his new administration, even as President Trump and Republicans try complicating his transition to power.

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT: I just think it's an embarrassment, quite frankly.

[16:05:00]

ZELENY: Seven-one days until the inauguration, reality is settling in that Biden is facing new roadblocks, as the Trump administration refuses to cooperate with a time-honored tradition of a peaceful transition.

But Biden also taking pains to cool the temperature over tensions in the transition, saying he could still begin forming a government without access to federal funding and intelligence. He downplayed the possibility of taking legal action.

BIDEN: We can get through without the funding. We're in a position that we feel very good about our -- there's nothing that slows up our efforts to put things together.

ZELENY: At his first news conference since the election, Biden playfully smiled at the Republican resistance. He said he has not spoken to Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell.

BIDEN: I haven't had a chance to speak to Mitch. My expectation is that I will do that not-too-distant future. I think that the whole Republican Party has been put in a position, with a few notable exceptions, of being mildly intimidated by the sitting president.

ZELENY: McConnell suggesting today he may not recognize the outcome until the Electoral College meets next month, which would go against any modern American transition.

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): Until the Electoral College votes, anyone who's running for office can exhaust concerns about counting. Should not be alarming.

ZELENY: Yet world leaders are moving on. British Prime Minister Boris Johnson, a longtime Trump ally and admirer, offering his congratulations in a call to Biden, as did French President Emmanuel Macron and German Chancellor Angela Merkel.

BIDEN: I'm letting them know that America is back. We're going to be back in the game. It's not American alone.

ZELENY: Biden sought to keep the spotlight on policy, namely, protecting the Affordable Care Act, the landmark law that was under the microscope during Supreme Court oral arguments today.

BIDEN: We're going to fight for your family's health coverage the same way we fight for our own family's health coverage.

ZELENY: The turmoil is even more telling, considering this day in history. It was four years ago that Biden met with vice president- elect Mike Pence and President Obama welcomed president-elect Donald Trump into the Oval Office.

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We now are going to want to do everything we can to help you succeed, because, if you succeed, then the country succeeds.

Please.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, thank you very much, President Obama.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZELENY: Now, Biden has no intention or likelihood of going back into the Oval Office until after noon on the 20th of January.

They're not expecting a concession or an invitation to the White House. But, Jake, for all of the president-elect's ability and attempts to sort of cool tensions -- and he was smiling in that news conference this afternoon -- the campaign is also doing something else. They're keeping an eye on all of these legal challenges.

At this very hour, his top lawyers are holding a news briefing on the phone with reporters to talk about these legal challenges -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Jeff Zeleny, thanks so much.

CNN's Boris Sanchez is at the White House with more breaking news.

And, Boris, you have some new information about how the White House is further stalling the transition. What can you tell us?

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Jake, the president here telegraphing that he is still going to contest the results of this election and that he is not going to go gracefully.

Multiple sources across federal agencies have told CNN that the president has put out the word through his staff that they should not cooperate with a Biden transition. The president making clear that he does not want any federal agency working with the Biden transition to install president-elect Joe Biden as commander in chief.

In fact, sources indicate that the president has told staffers that he does not want any agency doing anything that would even imply that Joe Biden won the election. And, further, the White House is instructing agencies to move forward with putting together a budget as if though President Trump has won, in fact, one source telling CNN that they are going to -- quote -- "going forward, move forward, assuming a win."

Notably, Jake, this is the longest period, as far as I can remember, where the president has not had any official public appearance. We haven't seen the president since last Thursday, when he appeared at the podium here in the White House press Briefing Room, espousing nonsense about a stolen election.

He's largely remained doing the same thing on Twitter, though. You noted that Republican lawmakers are being very considerate about the president's emotions. It appears he has not moved past the denial phase in the grieving process, Jake.

TAPPER: Yes. No, they're coddling him like a 5-year-old whose pet turtle died.

Thank you so much, Boris Sanchez. Thanks so much.

President Trump is refusing to accept defeat. Attorney General Bill Barr is encouraging investigations into alleged voter fraud to go forward without any evidence.

There was just a comment by the governor of Massachusetts, Charlie Baker, who just issued a statement, saying this latest move -- quote -- "to deploy the Department of Justice in all this is so wildly inappropriate."

[16:10:05]

That's from the Republican governor of Massachusetts.

And, as CNN's Pamela Brown reports, the top election crimes prosecutor just quit in protest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAMELA BROWN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Right now, efforts are under way within the Trump administration to pacify the president, as he continues to fire off baseless claims of widespread voter fraud.

Attorney General Bill Barr sending this letter clearing the way for federal prosecutors to investigate supposed voting irregularities. ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Bill Barr has lent DOJ's credibility

and DOJ imprimatur to this notion of something unfair happened. That, I think, is the main danger in this policy change.

BROWN: Barr's move reversed a longstanding DOJ policy dating back decades that prevents law enforcement from taking overt investigative steps before an election outcome is certified.

In response, DOJ's lead election crimes director, Richard Pilger, resigned from his position, saying in an e-mail that Barr issued -- quote -- "an important new policy abrogating the 40-year-old noninterference policy for ballot fraud investigations in the period prior to elections becoming certified and uncontested."

HONIG: Richard Pilger's resignation, I think, sends a very clear message that he objected to the politicization of DOJ.

BROWN: Barr did say in his letter that any DOJ investigations should not be based on specious claims.

Some Barr allies say that shows he was walking a fine line of keeping Trump happy, while also making clear frivolous investigations will not be pursued. But critics say it was a desperate move to stay in Trump's good graces after the president previously left open the door to firing him.

QUESTION: Bill Barr, will he be around in a second term?

TRUMP: I have no comment. I can't comment on that. It's too early.

QUESTION: Too early.

TRUMP: I'm not happy with -- with all the evidence I have, I can tell you that I'm not happy.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And another person we're seeing trying to appease the president is Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell.

As you know, Jake, he said on the Senate floor that the president has every right to look at his legal options and to look at alleged irregularities. He did stop short of embracing the idea that there is, there was fraud in the election.

But I'm told by sources, Jake, that McConnell made these statements after a days-long campaign from the president and his allies, reaching out to GOP allies, pushing them to support their evidence-free fraud claims. And the president even dangled the idea of not helping with the Georgia Senate run-offs.

Sources close to McConnell deny the president ever made that threat directly to him -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Pamela Brown, thank you so much.

The pandemic, meanwhile, is continuing to rage. And it is going from bad to worse.

Dr. Anthony Fauci live on THE LEAD next. He will talk to us about why we can't just wait for the light at the end of the tunnel in the form of a vaccine.

Plus: Will President Trump's hold on the Republican Party remain after he leaves the White House?

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[16:17:36]

TAPPER: We have bad news for you in our health lead today, glaring warning signs inside the United States, as experts warn that the good vaccine news does not mean that we're in the clear.

There are no states currently trending in the right direction when it comes to new cases of coronavirus; 44 states are seeing an increase in the past week. Yesterday alone, the United States added nearly 120,000 new cases and 472 people died from the virus.

As CNN's Nick Watt reports for us now, doctors are worried about just how much worse this could get before it gets better.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm going to ask you a few questions.

NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): While the virus runs rampant across the country, some very promising news out of the lab. Pfizer's vaccine might even start rolling out within weeks.

ALEX AZAR, U.S. HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: We have anticipated that we will have enough vaccine by the end of December to have vaccinated our most vulnerable citizens, enough for all Americans by the end of March to early April to have general vaccination programs.

WATT: And an antibody treatment from Eli Lilly just landed FDA emergency use authorization. Limited rollout begins this week.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Potentially in nursing homes, in outpatient centers, or even pop-up facilities.

WATT: This drug, similar to one use to treat the president, mimics the body's immune response, reducing the severity of symptoms in sufferers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This will help reduce hospitalizations.

WATT: And in just a week, COVID hospitalizations nationwide have climbed nearly a quarter, now at record highs in 17 states. And in just one week nationwide, the average daily case count has soared 42 percent, stands at nearly 120,000, never been higher.

In South Dakota, more than half of tests are coming back positive, 10 times where states aim to be.

DR. JEROME ADAMS, SURGEON GENERAL OF THE UNITED STATES: You don't have a massive mandate here, but what I would say to the people of South Dakota is, you really shouldn't need a mandate to do the right thing.

WATT: In Nebraska, the governor and first lady are quarantining after dining outdoors with someone Sunday who tested positive Monday.

Texas about to become the first state to pass one million confirmed cases. In El Paso, one in 30 people has the virus right now, six more trucks already deployed in the city, four more requested.

[16:20:12]

DR. MARK MCCLELLAN, FORMER FDA COMMISSIONER: We have got some hard work to do before vaccines are going to make a difference over the next few months.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WATT: Now, this news from Pfizer is very, very good, do not get me wrong, but it is going to take a little time and there are some challenges.

This vaccine requires two doses. It needs to be stored at extremely low temperatures. And, also, we still don't know how long any immunity it provides might last -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Nick, thanks so much for that report.

Joining us now to discuss, Dr. Anthony Fauci. He's the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases and a member of the White House Coronavirus Task Force.

Dr. Fauci, thanks so much for joining us.

We just heard about how new cases are climbing. How much worse do you expect this to get before it gets better?

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: Well, unless we really double down and do the public health measures that we have been talking about for so long, Jake, if you look at the numbers and the number of cases that we're seeing each day, over 100,000, and the deaths ranging from 800 to over 1,000, you can do the math yourself.

It can get much worse. And that's the reason why we really are pleading with the American public to really take seriously. We're not talking about shutting down. There's always that misunderstanding when we talk about public health measures. We're not talking about shutting down.

We're talking about the four or five things I talk about all the time, wearing masks universally, keeping a distance, avoiding congregate settings, crowds, particularly indoors, doing things much more outdoor than indoor, and washing hands.

The news about the vaccines is extraordinary, Jake. It is really a major...

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: Yes, let's talk about that.

(CROSSTALK)

FAUCI: Yes.

TAPPER: Let's...

FAUCI: But the point -- the point I want to make...

TAPPER: Oh, OK.

FAUCI: ... is that the news of the vaccine should not get people to say that we don't need to continue to do the public health measures, because I look at the vaccine as that help is coming, and it's coming soon.

We likely will be able to start dispensing vaccines in December, and then progressively over the next few months. But, in that interim, we could get into a lot of difficulty if we don't adhere to the public health measures.

TAPPER: Right.

FAUCI: When we get both of those two things together, a vaccine and public health measures, that would really be a game-changer.

But, for the time being, we have got to adhere to the public health measures. And I hope that the fact that people realize that help is on the way in the form of a vaccine, and soon, that that would get them to be even more motivated to do the public health measures...

TAPPER: Right.

FAUCI: ... because, when you know help is on the way, don't give up. There's a real thing called COVID-19 fatigue. That's understandable. We understand how difficult that is.

But hang in there a bit longer.

TAPPER: Right.

FAUCI: Do the things you need to do, and we will be OK.

TAPPER: So, let's talk about this vaccine.

Pfizer's vaccine appears to be more than 90 percent effective. Now, you say the first doses could go out at the end of this month or December. Who will get those? When will the rest of us, the majority of Americans, be able to go get a vaccine at CVS or at our doctor's office or whatever?

FAUCI: Well, Jake, so that the viewers understand, there is a tried- and-true process.

Ultimately, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention are responsible for the prioritization. They do that with help from an Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, the ACIP. That happens all the time where there are vaccines either in short supply, or vaccines such where you can't vaccinate everybody all at once, and you need to do a prioritization.

That's being supplemented by the National Academy of Medicine weighing in on that. It is likely, though the final determination has not been made, that health care providers who put themselves in harm's way to take care of individuals will be of the highest priority.

Then, obviously, you will have people who have underlying comorbidities that put them at a high risk for serious outcomes, elderly individuals in that category. Then you have elderly individuals in general and people who are part of the important infrastructure in society.

And then you have people who take care, for example, in nursing homes, and in other congregate settings that need protection, and then schoolteachers and schoolchildren.

And then, as you go down the line, you get the people who are essentially normal, have no comorbidities, and are not elderly. Those will be phased in over the next few months.

TAPPER: OK.

Pfizer says that they do expect some logistical challenges in distributing the vaccine because, well, first of all, this is the United States of America. It's a lot of people, 330 million, big country, but also two doses are required. It needs to be stored in freezing temperatures.

[16:25:07]

How much of a barrier do those details, the two doses and the freezing temperatures, make it for the -- to get the vaccine widely distributed?

FAUCI: Well, a couple of points about that, Jake.

A, I don't think it's a barrier. It's a certainly a challenge, I think would be a better way to describe it. But it's not a challenge that's unanticipated. That was part of the Operation Warp Speed agenda, namely, the scientific agenda led by Moncef Slaoui and the logistic or supply chain agenda led by General Gus Perna.

And that's what he's been spending literally every minute of every day on making sure that doesn't become an obstacle; it becomes a surmountable challenge. And I think that's what's going to happen. I mean, obviously, to say it's going to be easy would not be truthful.

It's going to be a challenge, but I believe we're going to be able to do it.

TAPPER: And then just to drill down on the idea of when most people, the lowest ones on the priority list, like me, for example -- I'm not high on the priority list -- when will I be able to get the vaccine? When would my family be able to get the vaccine?

Do you think by May, by June? What are we talking?

FAUCI: No, we're talking probably by April, the end of April, I would think.

Again, these are just guesstimates.

TAPPER: Right.

FAUCI: I believe that, within the next -- within the first quarter.

One of the things that we were concerned about, Jake -- and I discussed this with you on a prior interview -- was that we have a lot of people in this country who may not want to get vaccinated right away. That's why we were talking that it might take well into the second and third quarter to finally get people to be convinced to get vaccinated.

But for those who want to be vaccinated -- and I believe the incentive to get vaccinated will be greatly enhanced by the degree of efficacy -- when you hear something is 90 to 95 percent effective, it makes it much more likely that someone would want to get vaccinated.

But if Jake Tapper wants to get vaccinated, I think you're going to get vaccinated within the first four months. I would say, by April, you will be able to be vaccinated.

TAPPER: All right. Great. Good news.

Dr. Anthony Fauci, thank you so much, talking about one of the great achievements of the Trump administration, Operation Warp Speed, for which they should get some real credit, as well as obviously Moncef Slaoui and the whole team.

FAUCI: Right. Thank you.

TAPPER: Thank you so much, Dr. Fauci. Appreciate it.

A look at the presidential tradition President Trump refuses to take part in and what he could learn from his predecessors.

Stay with us.

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