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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Biden Names White House Chief of Staff; Trump Remains Out of Sight, Refusing to Concede. Aired 4-4:30p ET

Aired November 12, 2020 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:00]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: No public events scheduled, while outgoing President Trump is tweeting furiously not just falsehoods about the election, but literally deranged and debunked conspiracy theories.

Trump still refusing to acknowledge the plain fact that he has been defeated by president-elect Joe Biden and has, for the most part, Mr. Trump, withdrawn from public view.

The coronavirus pandemic, meanwhile, is getting worse, but President Trump is still refusing to develop any new plan to combat this crisis, with several more of his own advisers contracting coronavirus after attending campaign events around Election Day.

So, in essence, President Trump appears to be desperately, even pathetically fighting to keep a job that he has no apparent interest in responsibly performing.

And while most Republican lawmakers are completely enabling this behavior, a small number are now doing the bare minimum by acknowledging the simple fact that president-elect Joe Biden won.

Let's reiterate this for viewers out there who might be worried because of this unprecedented unhinged behavior by the outgoing president. Legal experts, Democrats and Republicans, say there is no credible path for Donald Trump to challenge the election results in all or even really any of the states that he needs to reverse their results, so he can win the election that he clearly, legally and legitimately, has lost.

Now, officials in the White House know this and acknowledge it privately. Republicans in Congress know this and acknowledge it privately. The only questions remaining are the extent to which President Trump will continue to be a sore loser and the lies that he will continue to tell his supporters on his way out the door.

But none of that is going to change what happens on January 20, when president-elect Joe Biden takes the oath of office and moves into the White House.

And, as CNN's Kaitlan Collins reports for us now, one person who spoke to President Trump is now describing the president as dejected over his rejection by American voters.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Donald Trump remained behind closed doors today with no public appearances on the horizon. He hasn't taken questions from reporters in over a week and hasn't spoken publicly since last Thursday.

Instead, he's waged war against the election from his phone, firing off tweets claiming without evidence the race was fraudulent, as his advisers privately wonder how long he will keep going. Sources tell CNN the president has been dejected following his loss, but has continued to meet daily with political advisers who are doubtful their legal challenges will succeed.

Several said it's only a matter of time before Trump acknowledges his loss, but they believe that will come with a tease that he will run in 2024.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When someday I leave, whether it's in four years, eight years, 12 years, 16 years.

COLLINS: As Trump holds out, more people in his party are urging him to accept defeat. FOX News' Geraldo Rivera posted this message, telling his friend his hard-fought race has come to an end.

GERALDO RIVERA, FOX NEWS: You came so close in this election, but time coming soon to say goodbye with grace and dignity.

COLLINS: Karl Rove, who advised the Trump campaign this year, wrote in a "Wall Street Journal" op-ed that Trump should do his part to unite the country by leading a peaceful transition and letting grievances go.

At least five GOP senators are now publicly calling for Joe Biden to receive access to classified briefings the Trump administration has blocked.

SEN. JAMES LANKFORD (R-OK): And if that's not occurring by Friday, I will step in as well and to be able to push them to say, this needs to occur.

COLLINS: The White House press secretary, who is paid by U.S. taxpayers, but appeared on FOX News today as a Trump campaign adviser, referred questions about whether Biden should receive intelligence briefings back to her own office today.

QUESTION: Has the president considered that?

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I haven't spoken to the president about that. That would be a question more for the White House.

COLLINS: As Trump fights his legal battles, the White House is still dealing with the fallout from an indoor election night party now tied to several cases of COVID-19.

Today, political adviser Corey Lewandowski tested positive, making him the seventh person who attended that party to do so.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: Now, Jake, we have not heard from the president in person since last Thursday.

I can't tell you how rare that is in the four years covering this White House that we have not actually seen the president come out and speak to us directly. But that doesn't mean there's not a lot going on behind the scenes. And, right now the buzz is whether or not the president is going to fire CIA Director Gina Haspel.

He's been unhappy with her for some time now. He's been telegraphing that that is something that he could be doing, especially recently over her opposition to declassifying documents related to Russian interference, though, ultimately, that decision is President Trump's and President Trump's alone.

But, Jake, I am told there have been many discussions inside the White House over the last few days about whether or not Trump should fire her. And while Republican lawmakers are coming to her defense on Capitol Hill, there is not a lot of defense happening for her the West Wing at this moment.

[16:05:13]

TAPPER: That's right. Gina Haspel, the CIA director, and other intelligence officials are saying that to release this information would compromise sources and methods for intelligence and thus national security.

But there are others in that building that have other priorities besides national security.

Kaitlan Collins, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

We have more breaking news. Sources are telling CNN that the president is getting conflicting advice from his most trusted advisers, his adult children, about what to do next, on one side, Donald Trump Jr. and Eric Trump, on the other, apparently, Ivanka and Jared Kushner.

CNN's Pamela Brown joins me now. '

Pamela, what is the conflict here? What are the president's children arguing?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, we're seeing the difference in approach publicly, Jake, with tweets from Ivanka Trump and then her two brothers, Eric Trump and Don Jr.

But my team, me and my colleagues, Gloria Borger, Dana Bash, Betsy Klein, Kate Bennett, we're told that, behind the scenes, there is also a different approach in talking to the president, as he tries to figure out how to come to grips with his loss in this election.

Our sources are telling us that Ivanka Trump and her husband, Jared, are really trying to navigate this delicately, that they have accepted that he has lost, but that doesn't mean they want the legal fight and the recount not to happen. They want that to still happen, but only for future elections to ensure integrity for the future.

They know, they have accepted that President Trump lost. And so they want it to be -- they want to figure out a way for the president to save face and have a graceful exit.

On the other hand, you contrast that with Don Jr. and Eric Trump, where they have been much more aggressive, much more gung-ho. They want an aggressive fight. They want to do everything they can to change the outcome of this election. They still believe there is hope to do that.

And so you're getting these competing suggestions to the president. But it is important to point out, Jake, that Ivanka Trump is someone that the president, as we know, relies on heavily on a myriad of topics, as he has been president, because she's also one of his only children -- his only child, I should say, who is in the West Wing acting as an adviser.

But we do know that, behind the scenes, Jake, he also has started to come around to the idea that he has lost this, even though we don't think he's going to concede. There is a lot of discussion and acceptance about figuring out a way for this to all end, Jake.

TAPPER: Well, I don't understand fully, because Ivanka and Jared are focused on having -- allowing the president to save face and providing him with an off-ramp to lose with some dignity, it's a little late for that.

I mean, that ship has sailed. The question is, just how much less dignity can he leave with? Do you have any sense of why and how Ivanka's approach is different from Don Jr. and Eric?

BROWN: Right.

And, look, they're not going to be able to change him, right? And even before this election, the president said he wasn't going to accept the results if he lost, that it was rigged. One aspect that he's thinking about in all of this is, he feels like Hillary Clinton never acknowledged that he won the election, so he doesn't want to give that dignity to Joe Biden.

That's all part of the thinking and the discussion in the White House. But for Ivanka Trump and for Jared Kushner, frankly, they're thinking about their futures. Ivanka knows that her future is very much tied to her father's. Jared Kushner has done a lot of work in the Middle East and that portfolio during his time in this administration, and they don't want that all to just be undone by Joe Biden if there is not a better exit.

But, as you point out, we are how many days since Election Day or since the race has been called for Joe Biden? And the president has still not accepted that he is the president-elect and has still not paved the way for the transition to go.

But there are certainly discussions going on behind the scenes among the president's children and advisers, Jake.

TAPPER: You can't even compare it to Hillary Clinton, who conceded the night of the election. And Obama and the Obama administration began letting the transition process happen.

At this point four years ago, Trump had visited Obama at the Oval Office. You can't -- OK, yes, I get it.

BROWN: Yes. But let me just -- you're right.

TAPPER: Yes.

BROWN: So, Hillary Clinton did concede, and that is what I point out to sources who bring this up as some sort of comparison.

But in the White House, the feeling is -- and I'm just conveying what they are saying...

TAPPER: I get it. I get it.

BROWN: ... is that Hillary Clinton talked about Russian interference and Comey and so forth, and therefore didn't -- they feel like she never acknowledged that Trump actually won, and that has stuck with him.

And we know, Jake, he holds grudges.

TAPPER: Well, she conceded. And there was Russian election interference, as every U.S. intelligence agency concluded.

Anyway, Pamela Brown, I know you're just conveying...

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: I'm just the messenger, Jake.

TAPPER: I know you're just reporting. I get it. I get it.

(LAUGHTER)

TAPPER: Pamela Brown, thanks so much.

For the first time as president-elect, Joe Biden today, the president- elect, spoke with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer about COVID-19 and economic relief so desperately needed by so many Americans.

[16:10:11]

The Democrats pledged to be in close touch in the coming days. It's just the latest signs that the Biden administration, which is incoming, and the world are moving full steam ahead, as CNN's Jessica Dean now reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President-elect Joe Biden on the move today, leaving Wilmington, Delaware, for his beach house.

On Wednesday night, Biden announced his first major hire, naming longtime aide Ron Klain as his chief of staff. In a statement, Biden described claim as invaluable, adding -- quote -- "His deep, varied experience and capacity to work with people all across the political spectrum is precisely what I need in a White House chief of staff."

Klain said in a tweet he was -- quote -- "honored" by the president- elect'S confidence. Biden and Klain share a long history, dating back to 1989, when Klain served as chief counsel for the Senate Judiciary Committee, including during the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings.

More recently, Klain was Biden's chief of staff when he was vice president and served as Ebola czar in 2014, a critical asset, given the current coronavirus pandemic.

RON KLAIN, INCOMING WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: The Trump administration response to this crisis has clearly failed.

DEAN: Meantime, Biden continues to mull his selections for Cabinet secretaries. Senator Bernie Sanders is ramping up his campaign to become labor secretary, telling CNN he would say yes if offered the position.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): If I had a portfolio that allowed me to stand up and fight for working families, would I do it? Yes, I would.

DEAN: President-elect Biden said he hopes to name some Cabinet members by Thanksgiving, with more decisions coming later in the year.

Meanwhile, Biden today spoke with Pope Francis, as he is set to become only the second Catholic president in U.S. history.

As for other foreign leaders, State Department officials tell CNN a stack of congratulatory messages are sitting at the State Department untouched, as the Trump administration continues to block the Biden transition team from accessing those messages or using the department's resources.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DEAN: Also today, the Biden transition team throwing some cold water on some comments from one of its members of its COVID-19 advisory board.

Dr. Michael Osterholm had said in a media interview that, if the government could cover lost wages and small business losses, that a four-to-six-week lockdown could do a lot to drive down coronavirus numbers here in the United States, but a Biden transition aide telling CNN today, Jake, that that is not in line with the president-elect's views and pointing out again there are a number of members of that advisory team -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Jessica Dean, thanks so much.

Coming up, Joe Biden's deputy campaign manager, what the Biden campaign can do if President Trump continues to refuse to concede and acknowledge reality.

Plus, while President Trump seemingly does not -- does nothing but furiously retweet, a major U.S. city is telling everyone to stay home again, as the United States continues to shatter COVID records, the worst kind of records.

And then, before you make your Thanksgiving plans, you may want to look at what's happening in Canada right now. We will explain next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:17:34]

TAPPER: We're back with the 2020 lead.

President Trump continues to refuse to accept reality and concede. And president-elect Joe Biden is proceeding with the transition anyway.

Joining me now is Kate Bedingfield. She's deputy campaign manager and communications director for the successful Biden campaign.

Congratulations on the victory, Kate. I know it was a long slog.

KATE BEDINGFIELD, BIDEN DEPUTY CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Thank you.

TAPPER: But you -- it went according to your plan.

BEDINGFIELD: It did. Thank you very much. We appreciate it. It's a great moment for the country. And we're all very happy. So thank you very much.

TAPPER: So, president-elect Biden says he does not need the presidential daily brief, that the transition is proceeding the same way, as if Trump had conceded and the transition process were going according to how it went in 2016, in 2012, in 2008, in 2004.

At what point will this become a problem, the Trump administration refusing to acknowledge the reality?

BEDINGFIELD: Well, as Joe Biden said, we're moving forward. We are able to do the core things that we need to do to move the transition forward.

You saw him announce his COVID task force. They are getting to work, thinking through how we implement the plans that Joe Biden laid out during the campaign to get the virus under control. You saw him last night announce his chief of staff. We are moving forward with the transition.

I think, obviously, there are pieces of the transition that it is -- it would be important for Donald Trump to concede. I think, symbolically, for the country, it's important for Donald Trump to concede. But I want to be really clear. It does not prevent us from being able to move forward.

Are there pieces of the work that we need to get done? Yes, there are. And we're confident that, ultimately, we will get there. But we are moving forward. And there's nothing that is preventing Joe Biden and Kamala Harris from setting up their transition, from moving into their transition, and then ultimately setting up their government in January of 2021.

TAPPER: One of the members of your Coronavirus Task Force, Michael Osterholm, he's an expert on infectious diseases. We have him on CNN all the time.

He said that a four-to-six-week lockdown of the country might not be a bad idea, if the government could step in and pay all the shopkeepers and others who need the revenue that they would lose.

Is that something that president-elect Biden is considering, a four- to-six-week lockdown?

BEDINGFIELD: Well, I think he laid out very clearly across the course the campaign the things that he wants to do to get the virus under control, including encouraging national mask mandates, including providing resources to small businesses and schools to ensure that they can open safely.

[16:20:12]

He laid out really comprehensive plans to get a national testing infrastructure in place to ensure that we're testing and working to keep people who've been exposed from spreading the virus further.

So, he's put forward his own plans that are going to get the virus under control and are going to get the economy moving again. Obviously, he is listening to the very best advice from scientists, from doctors. Again, you saw him announced his COVID Task Force this week.

He's going to be informed by the best expertise and public health expertise out there. But he's going to move forward on the plans that he laid out in the campaign that people overwhelmingly voted for in this country.

TAPPER: But what does that mean, no plans for a lockdown, but that could change? I mean, he's on -- Michael Osterholm is on the task force.

BEDINGFIELD: There are steps that we can take now, again, encouraging people to wear masks.

We have seen study after study shows that people wearing masks inhibits the spread of the virus. That's a really important step that everybody can take, starting now, to try to inhibit the spread of the virus. So there are things that Joe Biden has put forward that will make a

difference, and that he's focused on. Now, of course, is he taking advice? Is he hearing from the best public health experts who are advising him? Of course, and he's taking that into account.

But he's put forward really aggressive plans that he intends to implement in order to get the virus under control.

TAPPER: I want you to take a listen to House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy today. He quoted Biden's words, saying that access to intelligence would be nice to have, but is not necessary right now.

And then McCarthy added this:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): I think I kind of stand with Joe Biden. I will trust the intel community. He's not president right now. I don't know if he will be president on January 20. But whoever is will get the information.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Obviously, the idea that Joe Biden isn't going to be president on January 20 is nuts.

There's the House minority leader suggesting that it's possible. Joe Biden is the president-elect. He will be sworn in January 20. Presumably, Kevin McCarthy knows that.

Is there any risk that in your campaign downplaying the importance of this transition, you are giving Trump's enablers ammunition to argue that this insane behavior is no big deal?

BEDINGFIELD: Well, I don't think we're downplaying the importance of the transition at all. We're talking about all of the things that we can do to move forward to ensure that we are having a smooth transition.

And I think what Kevin McCarthy said, as you kind of noted there, Jake, is incredibly disingenuous. I mean, you have Republicans who are looking at the overwhelming victory that Joe Biden and Kamala Harris won this election by and suggesting somehow that they're not going to be sworn in January of 2021.

It's disingenuous and it's irresponsible. And I think, frankly, they know better. So, we're going to continue moving forward with our transition. We're going to continue moving forward doing the work of the American people. You're going to hear Joe Biden next week, as you heard him this week, talking, for example, about his commitment to build on the Affordable Care Act.

So, you're going to hear him continue to talk about the things that he's going to do as president, the things that, frankly, a historic number of people in this country voted for him, because he talked about those things that he's going to achieve. And he's focused on that. And so I think, as you see Republicans out

making these disingenuous statements, you can also look at, for example, Republicans, like Karl Rove, who are writing today that the Trump campaign needs to give up the ghost on this, and that it is time to transition.

So, we're moving forward.

TAPPER: Right, but Karl Rove, you're not going to have -- you don't have to for -- with -- Joe Biden is talking about, it's time for the country to come together, it's time for the country to heal. He wants to work with Republicans, Democrats.

That's the House minority leader. That's the House Republican leader. That's who Joe Biden, president-elect Biden, is talking about reaching out to, and he won't even acknowledge that Joe Biden is going to be sworn in on January 20.

BEDINGFIELD: I think that he is going to feel the pressure from his constituents, just as others all across this country are going to feel.

I mean, people overwhelmingly voted for the Biden/Harris ticket. But don't forget, they also overwhelmingly voted for unity. They overwhelmingly voted for a leader who can find consensus, who can make progress, who can actually move the ball forward.

So, that is overwhelmingly what the American people said they wanted in this election. And I think, for Republicans who are choosing to, again, I think, be incredibly disingenuous in this moment, they're going to feel that pressure from their constituents too.

So Joe Biden is going to focus on the things that he can do to move this country forward, to make life better for working people all over the country, and to get this virus under control. Those are the things he campaigned on. Those are the promises he made. Those are the commitments that he's going to keep.

TAPPER: To be clear, I hope you know I'm not holding you responsible for this insanity. I'm just pointing it out.

(LAUGHTER)

BEDINGFIELD: It is indeed insanity. So, thank you for acknowledging that.

TAPPER: Kate Bedingfield, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

You know the crisis is serious when international organizations such as Doctors Without Borders are going in, except, this time, they're coming here to the United States.

[16:25:03]

Dr. Sanjay Gupta is next with details on the COVID crisis.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our health lead today: The record-shattering numbers of COVID cases and hospitalizations in the United States are spiraling so far out of control that even international aid workers from Doctors Without Borders are coming to the United States to help us.

And, as CNN's Nick Watt reports for us now, despite increasing optimism for a vaccine, Dr. Fauci is now warning this deadly virus will likely never

[16:30:00]