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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Trump Resisting Election Defeat Reality; Interview With Former NATO Supreme Allied Commander James Stavridis; Trump Orders Troop Drawdown in Iraq and Afghanistan. Aired 4-4:30p ET

Aired November 17, 2020 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: This afternoon, acting Secretary of Defense Chris Miller announced a reduction of U.S. troops in Afghanistan and Iraq by January 15, five days before president-elect Joe Biden becomes President Joe Biden.

[16:00:03]

Miller called the reduction part of outgoing President Trump's plan to bring the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq to an end. U.S. troops in Afghanistan and Iraq will be reduced to 2,500 each. Currently, there are about 4,500 U.S. troops in Afghanistan in about 3,000 troops in Iraq.

Acting Defense Secretary Miller announced this move just over a week after President Trump fired Defense Secretary Mark Esper.

Now, I'm told by sources that Esper had warned against a withdrawal from Afghanistan at this point in a classified memo. Esper, sources told me, told the White House that it was the unanimous recommendation of the chain of command, meaning him, plus the commander of CENTCOM and the commander of troops in Afghanistan, that the U.S. should not draw down U.S. troop presence any further until conditions were met in Afghanistan, conditions such as a reduction in violence and progress in diplomatic negotiations with the Taliban.

The fear, as per said in this memo, according to someone familiar with it, was that a premature withdrawal would not only undermine U.S. allies and Afghan troops, but could undermine the actual negotiations, since why -- the argument goes, why would the Taliban agree to any concessions if they know that the U.S. is halfway out the door either way?

Now, that memo was believed to have been one of the main reasons why outgoing President Trump fired Esper and much of his senior leadership last week.

Now, President Trump in his lame-duck session has installed an apparent yes-man, getting done all he can in Washington before departing.

We should note that the outgoing president continues to deny the reality that he lost the election, and thus is continuing to refuse to allow the transition process to begin, meaning president-elect Biden and his team were not briefed on this decision in any way, though today's announcement has clear life-or-death implications, something that the president has apparently less regard for right now than his own brittle spirit.

CNN's Barbara Starr is live from the Pentagon for us. Jeremy Diamond is outside the White House.

Barbara, let's start with you.

How significant is this drawdown?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, for the U.S. military, it is very significant, Jake, because of exactly what you said. All indications are, the top commanders, the chairman of the joint chiefs, the head of Central Command, the head of the U.S./NATO- led coalition in Afghanistan were not ready and did not recommend that drawdown in Afghanistan.

That's the one that is of such critical concern right now, because the Taliban have not lived up to their promise of reducing violence and renouncing al Qaeda. And that raises some serious questions about, can the Afghan government over the long haul really survive at this point and what the Taliban may do next.

There is no leverage, with so many U.S. troops gone, that reasonably is going to stop the Taliban from their own agenda at this point, many observers believe.

So, this is really a critical issue. And, today, what we essentially had here at the Pentagon, Chris Miller, who's been acting secretary for barely a week, and will leave when President Biden is inaugurated, came out, basically announced the end of America's longest war, turned around and left.

TAPPER: Yes, it was pretty amazing he didn't take any questions at all.

And, Barbara, just a few weeks ago, then Secretary of Defense Esper, Senate-confirmed, wrote this memo saying now is not the right time to draw down troops. He does want to get troops out of Afghanistan, however. It's just a question of whether or not this is a responsible exit.

How did we get here?

STARR: Well, because President Trump basically made the decision to move ahead.

Look, Mark Esper is one of the most circumspect people that has sat in that chair. He would not have written that letter unless he had consulted with top military commanders, and had their buy-in on his views. So, clearly, the top commanders were not in favor of this.

President Trump, commander in chief, civilian control of the military, he has every right to make that decision. Commanders will follow it. It is a legal order. There's no question about that. The question now is what doors may have been shut to Joe Biden once he

takes office about what he may want to do about Afghanistan, the Taliban and al Qaeda -- Jake.

TAPPER: And, Jeremy, this is something President Trump obviously has promised to do since before he was elected in 2016, but now he makes this move at a point where he doesn't have to deal with any of the repercussions, whether or not it gets more violent, U.S. troops have to go back in, whether or not the Taliban is emboldened.

What is the White House exactly thinking here?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, what's remarkable about this is that this is one of a series of moves that the president and his team appear to be enacting here to kind of solidify his legacy and to enact some last-minute policy changes before he leaves office, all of this happening even as the president refuses to concede that he has actually lost the election and that he will be leaving the White House come January 20 of next year.

[16:05:03]

And, ultimately, Jake, I think we should also note that, while this is the president acting on the intent of that promise, it was just a couple months ago that the president took to Twitter to say he wanted to have all U.S. troops from Afghanistan home by Christmas.

Obviously, that is not happening. A force of 2,500 troops is expected to remain there. And what was also notable, Jake, was to hear the national security adviser, Robert O'Brien, today saying that it's the president's hope that all U.S. troops will be home from Afghanistan by May.

But, of course, Jake, President Trump won't be president then. Instead, it's president-elect Biden who will have to deal with the consequences of this decision and determine the future of U.S. troops in that country.

TAPPER: And if a Democrat were doing this, a Democratic president on his way out the door after being defeated, I mean, Senate Republicans would be conducting a march on Washington.

What is the reaction the Hill so far?

DIAMOND: Well, there is some criticism already coming in. And it's mostly from Republicans so far, Jake, who are opposed to this move.

The top Republican on the House Armed Services Committee, Mac Thornberry, said that these additional reductions of American troops are a mistake. And, quite remarkably, Jake, as Chris Miller, the acting secretary of defense, was making this announcement, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell was also on the Hill speaking to this issue, reiterating once again his opposition to any precipitous withdrawal or drawdown of U.S. troops in Afghanistan.

TAPPER: All right, Jeremy and Barbara, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Here to discuss, Retired Admiral James Stavridis. He's the former NATO supreme allied commander for all global operations from '09 to 2013. He's also the author of "Sailing True North."

Admiral, you once headed the NATO mission in Afghanistan. What's your reaction to this? I guess, it's -- I mean, in one way, it's not a sudden drawdown. We have been there for 19 years. On the other hand, to a lot of people in the military community, it is. What's your reaction?

ADM. JAMES STAVRIDIS (RET.), FORMER NATO SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER: It's astoundingly foolish, from a military, strategic, diplomatic and political perspective.

And, by the way, Jake, let's keep it in perspective. You know these numbers, but when I commanded that mission, it was 150,000 troops. It's now down to 5,000 U.S. troops and 5,000 allied troops. It's a tiny amount, but it creates leverage, and it allows the Afghan security forces to put pressure on the Taliban militarily.

That's what's brought them to the bargaining table. We have got a terrific ambassador, Zal Khalilzad -- you know him well -- who is capable, I think, of landing this deal.

But if we put precipitously pull our troops out, with the theory that, hey, let's bring them home by Christmas, or, at least at this point, cut them by 50 percent, you crater those negotiations. So it's a military mistake and a diplomatic mistake.

TAPPER: Well, that's the -- that was the fear that Esper expressed in this memo, my sources tell me, which is -- I mean, there are a whole bunch of reasons why he opposed a withdrawal right now, although he supported withdrawal of troops to this current level, 4,500.

But he was concerned. Why would the Taliban negotiate at all if we're leaving before they have made the concessions we need them to, which include reduction in violence, continued concessions, and also renouncing al Qaeda and other terrorist groups?

STAVRIDIS: Indeed.

And those are the dangers and threats that will emerge. And, additionally, we're going to lose much of what we have gained in terms of human rights, rights of women in Afghanistan, the access of education to girls.

That society, for all of its challenges, at the end of the day, it's kind of moving in a better direction. If the Taliban get footing and come back in under non-defined conditions, the likelihood of preserving those benefits is near zero.

So, this has repercussions, not only for Afghanistan, but for the region. Terrorists can come back. That internal society is going to get ripped apart in another civil war. This deployment -- and you heard it from all the sources. Barbara Starr has terrific sources in the building.

The military chain of command wants to stay, wants to have that minimal presence, and bring this thing home. And, by the way, for perspective, we have 50,000 troops in Europe. We have 30,000 troops in South Korea. There is no problem sustaining 5,000 U.S. troops forward to bring this to a salutary conclusion.

TAPPER: So, just for the viewers at home who are like, look, we have been there for almost 20 years, let's just pull the plug on this, generals never want to withdraw, this has been going on long enough, what's your response?

STAVRIDIS: You know, I get that. I fully understand Middle East fatigue in the country.

But this is, to use a tired football analogy, we're kind of on the five-yard line here in terms of getting a peace deal. We have already done all the hard work. We have invested all the capital. We have had all the tragic casualties of this adventure, if you will.

[16:10:10]

Now we have a chance to bring this home. It makes sense. Keep terrorism out. We won't have to go back. Preserve gains. Keep Afghanistan as a democratic partner. There are a lot of very positive reasons to stay in there at relatively low cost.

I can look anybody in the eye and make that case, I think, and so would other senior commanders.

TAPPER: And, obviously, this happens as President Trump, outgoing President Trump continues to deny the reality of his loss, continues to deny the transition to take place.

And president-elect Biden is going to inherit this, one way or another. What's your view of the fact that these major national security decisions are being made without even consulting the man who's going to be president as of January 20?

STAVRIDIS: I think it's inappropriate, starting with the fact that we're not even getting the Biden team visibility into highly classified intelligence that they need, so that they're ready to go on day one.

Here's the good news, Jake. The team that president-elect Biden is putting around him is experienced, collegial. Almost all of them have operated at Cabinet or near Cabinet level under the Obama administration.

Here, I'm talking about the national security, intelligence team, the diplomats. This may be the most experienced team to walk into government since John F. Kennedy brought in the best and the brightest. This is a very good group. They will get up to speed fast.

But these kind of decisions -- and it's not just in Afghanistan. There's talk about a strike in Iran. There's a ratcheting up on sanctions in China. You get the feeling the outgoing president is trying to box in the incoming president. That's not appropriate.

TAPPER: All right, Retired Admiral James Stavridis, thank you so much. Appreciate your time.

The president hate-watching news and tweeting, and new details of advisers clashing in the Oval Office, as flimsy legal challenges keep getting shot down. One just got shut down in Pennsylvania just minutes ago.

And Senator Lindsey Graham, the Senate Judiciary Committee chairman, accused of pressuring a Republican secretary of state to toss legal votes, or at least imply that he wanted that done. How is he responding to that charge?

That's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:16:59]

TAPPER: In our 2020 lead today: As President Trump orders a major troop drawdown in Iraq and Afghanistan on his way out the door, this afternoon, president-elect Joe Biden received a national security briefing in Wilmington, Delaware, from a team of diplomatic, intelligence and military experts.

The briefing, of course, was not the presidential daily brief, the high-level intelligence report that would normally be delivered to a president-elect. All of this is because outgoing President Trump will not accept the will of the American people and acknowledge his election defeat, with election officials across the nation, as well as in his own administration, attesting to the efficiency and fairness of the election, and no plausible legal path to undo president-elect Biden's electoral and popular vote routing of Mr. Trump.

Nonetheless, the outgoing president preventing president-elect Biden from fully preparing for his incoming administration, preventing him from being fully up to speed to protect and work for the American people, as CNN Arlette Saenz reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER (voice-over): President-elect Joe Biden put national security front and center today, as the Trump administration blocks his access to the nation's top secrets.

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT: There's no presidential responsibility more important than protecting the American people.

SAENZ: Biden assembled his own team of diplomatic, intelligence and defense experts from outside the government, in lieu of the classified intelligence briefings the federal government's still won't provide.

BIDEN: We need to focus on readiness for whatever may come.

SAENZ: Biden also spoke today with five world leaders, including Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, whose office referred to Biden in a tweet as president-elect, something President Trump refuses to acknowledge.

BIDEN: I am hopeful that the president will be mildly more enlightened before we get to January 20.

SAENZ: But Biden is plowing ahead, naming the senior team who will lead his White House. In addition to Ron Klain as chief of staff, two longtime advisers are signing on, Mike Donilon as senior adviser and Steve Ricchetti as counselor to the president.

Biden has tapped some campaign veterans, including his campaign manager, Jen O'Malley Dillon, in the role of deputy chief of staff. And Louisiana Congressman Cedric Richmond, a national co-chair of Biden's campaign, is leaving his House seat for a top White House job.

REP. CEDRIC RICHMOND (D-LA): This new role will allow me to offer advice to the president when he wants it, maybe sometimes when he doesn't want it.

SAENZ: Richmond's hiring drew some backlash from progressive organizations, with the Sunrise Movement calling it a betrayal, due to the congressman accepting donations from the fossil fuel industry.

Today, President Obama reminding everyone during a virtual sit-down with Oprah what may be one of the biggest challenges facing president- elect Biden.

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The truth is, is that there are some deep divisions in this country, and it's going to take all of us, not just one election, to overcome those divisions.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[16:20:12]

SAENZ: And the Biden transition is keeping up the pressure for the Trump administration to coordinate with them when it comes to the coronavirus pandemic.

They say that they need to coordinate not just on vaccine distribution plans, but also on simple data sets which they don't have access to about PPE, testing supplies and hospital beds.

As one of the chairs of Biden's Coronavirus Advisory Board said, they don't have a day to waste -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Arlette Saenz with the Biden transition team in Wilmington, Delaware.

Today, President Trump retweeted a statement from the head of the Federal Election Commission. The statement attested to the honesty of Trump campaign attorney Sidney Powell, writing of Powell -- quote -- "If she says there is rampant voter fraud in election 2020, I believe her" -- unquote. It's a rather stunning statement, given the fact that Powell is a

conspiracy theorist who pushes deranged ideas on Twitter all the time, for instance, that the Federal Reserve worked with billionaire philanthropist George Soros to try to tank the economy to hurt Trump.

She called special counsel Robert Mueller's team creeps on a mission to destroy Trump. And now Powell has shared this delusional conspiracy that the CIA is involved in stealing the election using computer software, all of it total and utter nonsense debunked by Democratic and Republican and nonpartisan election officials in the Trump administration and around the country.

And yet this is who the president of the United States has working on his legal challenges, dubious legal challenges that are, unsurprisingly, failing, as CNN's Jeremy Diamond now reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DIAMOND (voice-over): President Trump is holed up in the White House and refusing to concede, his 10th day without public events since his stinging defeat two weeks ago.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They're trying to steal an election.

DIAMOND: Other than his post-election Briefing Room diatribe, a Veterans Day wreath-laying, and remarks about coronavirus vaccines, Trump has spent his days either on the golf course or behind closed doors, arriving in the Oval Office later than usual, after spending mornings watching TV in the residence.

People familiar with the matter say Trump has shown little interest in beefing up his schedule, and few aides are raising that idea because of his dark mood.

As lawsuit after lawsuit has failed, disagreements between Trump's advisers erupted in an Oval Office clash late last week that saw Rudy Giuliani call campaign attorneys liars for warning Trump he is unlikely to overturn the election results.

Giuliani is now in charge, as Trump's legal options are quickly vanishing. In Pennsylvania, Giuliani appeared in federal court after two law firms withdrew from the longshot lawsuit aimed at stopping Pennsylvania from certifying Joe Biden's win.

In Michigan, a federal judge warned the Trump campaign it must serve election officials with its complaint by the end of the day or face dismissal for -- quote -- "failure to diligently prosecute this case."

And in Wisconsin, the campaign has just 24 hours to decide whether to spend nearly $8 million up front for a recount that is unlikely to change the results. As Trump approaches checkmate, some Republicans are dipping their toes in reality, Senator John Cornyn telling CNN he has every confidence a president will be inaugurated on January 20 and -- quote -- "It will probably be Joe Biden."

Only a handful of Republicans are telling the blunt truth.

REP. PAUL MITCHELL (R-MI): Yes, I think the people have spoken, and we have president-elect Biden, and we need to accept that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DIAMOND: And, Jake, today, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, he's still refusing to call Joe Biden president-elect, but he did say that there will be a -- quote -- "orderly transfer from this administration to the next one."

And today, Jake, the Trump campaign also suffered the latest in a string of defeats in the Pennsylvania Supreme Court this time, where the Supreme Court ruled that Republican observers in Philadelphia were granted sufficient access to observe the vote counting.

That goes against everything that the president and his team have been arguing -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Jeremy Diamond, thank you so much.

The president in relative hiding, as COVID hospitalizations hit a new record in the United States, and even some more red state governors are starting to see the writing on the wall and ordering regulations.

Plus, some breaking news. One company developing a vaccine says it's ready to get emergency use authorization from the FDA, after answering key questions.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:29:19]

TAPPER: We have some breaking news in our health lead.

Pfizer is preparing to file its coronavirus vaccine for emergency use authorization, the company CEO said today. They collected the safety data necessary to submit an application to the FDA.

This comes as governors across the country are gradually adding restrictions to stop the alarming spread of new cases and hospitalizations throughout the U.S., as CNN's Alexandra Field now reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): More than 73,000 COVID patients are now hospitalized across the country. Nine months into the U.S.' COVID crisis, the number has never been this high.

DR. DARA KASS, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER: We are seeing almost every single state in this union have a surge of cases, and the entire health care work force is being stressed at the exact same time. FIELD: The alarm bells sounding nationwide are moving several

Republican governors who had resisted restrictions to reverse course.

[16:30:00]