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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Vaccines on Horizon; Trump Continues Quest to Overturn Election Results. Aired 4-4:30p ET

Aired November 20, 2020 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:00]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: That's right.

Despite the Trump team's noise and the plotting and the shambolic and incompetent attempts to overturn the election results by disenfranchising millions of Americans, regardless, two months from today, Donald Trump and his staff will leave the White House.

The president-elect, Mr. Biden, is meeting today with vice president- elect Kamala Harris and Democratic congressional leaders Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi. And, just last hour, President Trump came out and spoke with the press.

He still is falsely claiming -- I don't know if it's a delusion or a lie or whatever, but he's still falsely claiming that he won the election, an election that he clearly lost. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Big pharma ran millions of dollars of negative advertisements against me during the campaign -- which I won, by the way. But we'll find that out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Nope. President Trump did not win. And he also did not take any questions from the press.

He is still attempting to cling to power. Right now, President Trump is continuing this plot to overturn the election. He's meeting with three Michigan legislators in the Oval Office. Sources tell CNN there are discussions under way with the president about inviting Republican state legislators from Pennsylvania to the White House as well.

The White House press secretary today called the meeting routine.

But it's not routine. The president's attorney Sidney Powell has stated on the record that her goal is to get state legislatures to overturn the will of their own voters, based on a bizarre and discredited conspiracy theory, backed by zero credible authorities.

And that is anything but routine.

The big question now, of course, what, if anything, Republican officials will do to stop the president in his attempts to subvert the election results. That remains unknown, though there are some new condemnations of the president's actions by a couple of Republican lawmakers on Capitol Hill.

And a source tells CNN some alarmed rank-and-file Republican senators are beginning to consider more forceful pressure on President Trump to give up his election gambit.

As CNN's Arlette Saenz reports for us now, Mr. Trump's obstruction has forced the Biden transition team to speed up its announcements of key administration positions.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER (voice-over): With President Trump and his administration stonewalling the formal transition process, president-elect Joe Biden Democratic leaders are presenting a united front.

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT: Thanks for coming up. There's a lot of work to do.

SAENZ: The incoming White House team huddling for the first time with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, with COVID-19 top of mind.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): We were discussing the lame-duck session, the urgency of crushing the virus and easing the pain of this economic crisis.

SAENZ: But Biden has yet to speak with the top Republican in Congress, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, even as he's had private talks with some GOP lawmakers.

RON KLAIN, INCOMING WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: They have been very kind to have these conversations and talk about ways they can work together going forward.

SAENZ: The Democratic confab is the latest attempt to show the president-elect has hit the ground running, as President Trump tries to challenge the election results.

BOB BAUER, ATTORNEY FOR BIDEN CAMPAIGN: While the president and his allies are ripping at the fabric of the democracy in any way they can, the fabric is not tearing. It's holding firm.

SAENZ: On Capitol Hill, House Democrats are demanding the GSA provide a briefing on the ascertainment delay, as the pressure campaign ramps up.

PELOSI: It is totally mystifying that the GSA refuses to make the statement necessary for the transition to happen in an orderly fashion. They have been sort of Trumpian from the start. SAENZ: The president-elect is forging ahead, announcing more key White House staff, including his director of legislative affairs.

Biden is also speeding up his timeline for announcing his Cabinet picks, with the first nominees now expected to come before Thanksgiving, Biden revealing he's already decided on one key post, Treasury secretary.

BIDEN: You will soon hear my choice for Treasury.

SAENZ: With exactly two months until his inauguration, Biden today turned 78 years old, on path to become the oldest president in U.S. history.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SAENZ: And president-elected Joe Biden's team is also making a fund- raising push right now, trying to raise money for its transition.

They sent out an e-mail today to grassroots supporters, saying that, without ascertainment, they need to fund the transition themselves. Right now, there are millions of dollars that the Biden transition team cannot access, since the GSA has not ascertained him as the winner.

So, instead, they are seeking those private donations to make sure they can keep things running -- Jake.

TAPPER: Arlette Saenz in beautiful downtown Wilmington, Delaware, thanks so much for joining us. We appreciate it.

[16:05:01]

This afternoon, a rare appearance from both White House Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany and President Trump, who has had very few public events since he lost the election.

Republican officeholders continue to say that the president has every right to pursue any legal remedies in his desire to overturn the results of the election. And that's true.

But what few of these Republican officeholders acknowledge is that the legal challenges are overwhelmingly failing, because they're either based on deranged conspiracy theories or on just plain lies.

Rudy Giuliani is one of many pushing the idea that there were more votes than voters in places such as Michigan. Now, this is based, at least in part, on the testimony of a man named Russ Ramsland. An affidavit from Ramsland was filed in Georgia to stop the vote certification there from the president's allies.

And we took a look at this affidavit from this so-called expert. It alleges suspicious election activity in Wayne County, Michigan, in precincts such as Spruce Grove Township, Atlanta Township, Runeberg Township, Detroit Lakes. Here's the problem. Those are cities and townships not in Michigan. Those are cities and townships in Minnesota. The Trump allied lawyers and experts got the state wrong, though, to be fair, both states do start with the letter M.

This is based on nonsense.

And, as CNN's Kaitlan Collins reports, there are still no signs of any acknowledgement of the reality of his election loss, much less a concession.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Trump is ramping up his unparalleled efforts to overturn the U.S. election and wrongly claiming he won during a rare appearance in front of cameras today.

TRUMP: Big pharma ran millions of dollars of negative advertisements against me during the campaign -- which I won, by the way. But we'll find that out. Almost 74 million votes.

COLLINS: The president appeared in the Briefing Room, but took no questions for the 17th day in a row, after taking the brazen step of summoning Michigan's Republican state legislators to the White House.

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: So, he will be meeting later on. This is not an advocacy meeting. There will be no one from the campaign there. He routinely meets with lawmakers from all across the country.

COLLINS: What the press secretary described as a routine meeting did not appear on the president's official schedule and comes only days before the state is set to formally certify Joe Biden as the winner.

Kayleigh McEnany claimed no one from the campaign would be present hours after Rudy Giuliani said he was planning on being there.

RUDY GIULIANI, ATTORNEY FOR PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I will be there just to answer any questions they have, because I know -- I probably know the case better than anybody else.

COLLINS: CNN has learned Giuliani's plans have changed and he won't attend the meeting, but only because he was in contact with his son, who tested positive for coronavirus.

Officials say the president is also discussing inviting Republican legislators from other states like Pennsylvania in what could be an unprecedented effort to get legislators to override the will of voters.

Trump and his allies are now resorting to the last-ditch effort after losing or withdrawing more than two dozen lawsuits since Election Day. As Georgia secretary of state announced they were making Biden's win in the state official today, he dealt another blow to Trump and his team. BRAD RAFFENSPERGER (R), GEORGIA SECRETARY OF STATE: I live by the

motto that numbers don't lie. As secretary of state, I believe that the numbers that we have presented today are correct.

COLLINS: Most in the administration are still refusing to recognize reality publicly.

PETER NAVARRO, DIRECTOR, WHITE HOUSE OFFICE OF TRADE AND MANUFACTURING POLICY: I don't accept the premise. I believe President Trump will have a second term.

COLLINS: Many in the GOP have humored the president's efforts to undermine democracy and refuse to acknowledge Joe Biden's win.

But, today, outgoing Senator Lamar Alexander became the most senior Republican to call on Trump to let the transition go forward -- quote -- "so that both sides are ready on day one."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: Now, Jake, those Michigan lawmakers just arrived here at the White House a few moments ago. We saw them going into the West Wing for their meeting with President Trump.

And so one thing that's not clear is which attorney is going to be present for this, because, of course, Rudy Giuliani now can't go that because his son has tested positive. Jenna Ellis, another attorney with the campaign, is also quarantining away from this because she was also in contact with Andrew Giuliani yesterday, since he tested positive.

And one person we know that's not going to be there, which is notable, is Ronna McDaniel, the Republican National Committee chairwoman. And that's interesting, Jake, because, at the beginning of this, she was playing a pretty big role in pushing back on the results of this, talking about litigation that they were going to bring forward.

But, also, she hails from Michigan. However, we are told by a spokesperson for her she is not going to be at this meeting this afternoon.

TAPPER: Kaitlan, just one second. Stay there.

I just want to say, you got attacked from the podium today, unfairly and unprofessionally.

[16:10:01]

And I just want to note, you're one of the best White House correspondents ever in the history of this country. You do a fantastic job. And we're very lucky to have you. And we are all 100 percent behind you.

So, thanks for that report, and thanks for the job you do.

COLLINS: Thank you for saying that. TAPPER: Let's bring in our panel right now.

Laura, President Trump right now is set to meet with three state legislators from Michigan. One of those lawmakers is Michigan Senate Majority Leader Mike Shirkey. He was seen at Reagan National Airport this morning.

Now there's even talk of inviting lawmakers from Pennsylvania as well. I mean, the president appears to be openly abusing his power to court officials in a plot to overturn the election and subvert democracy.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: That's exactly it, Jake.

I mean, there's no other way to describe it, is that it is to subvert the will of the voters. And so far, what we have heard is that a number of Republicans in Pennsylvania have no interest in coming to the White House so far.

This is a last gasp to try to overturn the election result. But, as you noted earlier, out of, what, some 31 legal suits, only two have been successful on Trump's behalf. They are overwhelmingly losing all of their challenges.

I was talking to Florida Republican Francis Rooney earlier today. And he said that the damage that this continuation causes, that this -- these false claims of fraud by the -- by Trump, it puts the country in a situation that foreign adversaries can take advantage of.

And that also is talking about the delay in transition, that Biden is not able to fully utilize funds and resources at this point. It puts the country in a bad situation, is what that lawmaker said.

But, at the same time, so many Republicans are still not overwhelmingly pushing the president to stop this effort.

TAPPER: Yes. No, it's pretty pathetic.

Gloria, a source tells CNN there are a handful of alarmed Republican senators who are discussing whether they should intervene, how to intervene. Is this reaching a tipping point? Are we going to see more than just Mitt Romney and Ben Sasse come out and just call this for what it is?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Who knows.

I think it should be a tipping point. I think it should have been a tipping point a long time ago, honestly, Jake. But I think after you saw Rudy Giuliani, and you see the president right now meeting with these Michigan legislators, openly engaging in what I consider to be election interference, trying to steal an election while he sits in the Oval Office, you would think that there would be more people intervening.

But they're nervous. They're scared. It's ridiculous at this point. Mitch McConnell needs to try and say something. It doesn't mean -- it doesn't mean that he's going to listen to anybody, Jake. And we know he doesn't have to concede, actually, because Joe Biden can be inaugurated, and that will be the end of that.

But I have also reported that multiple friends and allies have been reaching out to him, pleading with him, even if you don't want to concede, at least just let the transition continue. And he has said, no, I have got more than 70 million people behind me. And I'm going to -- I'm going to fight this until the end.

And I think that it's up to Republicans right now to say, you're undermining our democracy, and we can no longer go along with this.

But do I expect that kind of courage? I'm sad to say I don't.

TAPPER: Laura, President Trump is trying to raise money for this legal fight, or so he claims.

But if you read the fine print of his latest plea for money that just went out earlier this afternoon, it says 75 percent of each donation goes to the president's leadership PAC, not to the legal fights, but into his leadership PAC. That's up from 60 percent last week.

So, this is essentially kind of a post-presidency slush fund, money that he really will be able to spend almost however he wants.

BARRON-LOPEZ: Yes, you took the word that I was going to use, slush fund, Jake, which is that the president is just adding more money to his coffers for whatever he pleases post-presidency.

Whether that's another potential run in 2024, that's something that we have been hearing is a possibility. But the idea that it is simply to carry out these legal challenges that are overwhelmingly not working seems to not be the case.

So, again, whether he's intentionally lying to his supporters or just misleading them, the money that people are donating to the president is not fully going where he says that it is.

TAPPER: Yes, the grift that keeps on giving.

So, Gloria, I just pointed out that affidavit that is alleging suspicious election activity in Wayne County, Michigan, precincts like Spruce Grove Township, Atlanta Township, Runeberg Township, Detroit Lakes.

The only problem, of course, those are places in Minnesota, not in Michigan, where they're alleging this malfeasance took place, all based on nonsense.

[16:15:07]

BORGER: Right.

TAPPER: The Republicans say the president has a right to pursue these legal challenges.

But they're nonsense.

BORGER: Right.

TAPPER: They're crap.

BORGER: Right. And this is why they don't have any serious election lawyers representing them, because everybody knows it's garbage. And this is why they have been laughed out of court every single time they have been in court. I believe it's more than two dozen times at this point.

And it may be even more than that. And this is why everybody knows that it's a joke. If you saw Rudy Giuliani yesterday, and you saw him spew this ridiculous nonsense about these grand conspiracies, and then his associates spewing more nonsense about how Republicans were in on the plot, some Republicans who got reelected were in on the plot, which Joni Ernst took exception to, you will see that it's a bunch of garbage, and that there is no there there, because, in court, you have to have evidence in order to prove your case.

And what the president's people seem to be saying is, we can't show you any evidence, because, if we showed you the evidence, these people's lives would be in danger.

TAPPER: Yes.

BORGER: I don't get it. I just don't get it.

TAPPER: Gloria Borger, Laura Barron-Lopez, thanks to both of you.

It is the most critical day to date in the race for a coronavirus vaccine, how soon you might be able to get that shot in the arm.

And a crowd chanting "Four more years" as Vice President Pence visits Georgia, with President Trump's lies now infecting the battle for control of the Senate.

Stay with us.

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[16:21:03]

TAPPER: We have breaking news for you in our health lead today.

This may be the biggest day yet in the race for a coronavirus vaccine. Pfizer is now the first company to request emergency use authorization from the FDA for its vaccine.

Let's bring in CNN chief medical correspondent Sanjay Gupta.

Sanjay, this is a major milestone. What is next for the Pfizer vaccine? Walk us through a possible timeline. DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, so what's

likely to happen -- and it's going to involve Pfizer -- it may also involve Moderna -- we're thinking they may apply for an emergency use authorization as well -- is that December 8, 9, and 10, this advisory committee is going to meet.

They're basically going to look at all this data. And they're going to make a recommendation, basically, whether or not these -- this or these, meaning two vaccines, should be authorized by the FDA. The FDA typically always follows the recommendation of that committee. If that happens, it then goes to another committee that's associated with the CDC to basically determine the who, the what, the where, Jake, who's going to get it first, which vaccine, and where the vaccine is going to be distributed.

And that all goes according to plan -- and it does look like it is so far -- people are optimistic about it -- a few days after that, people would start probably getting the first dose of this vaccine.

So, for the first time, people outside of a clinical trial would likely receive the first dose of this vaccine. Two, three weeks or so after that, they would get their second dose, probably beginning of January, and then about a week after, that's when they would be considered actually vaccinated. That's when you have the immunity that sort of kicks in.

So, this is starting to ramp up pretty quickly, Jake. Over the next several weeks, shots could be -- authorization, shots could be going into arms, second shot, and then having a certain segment of the population vaccinated.

TAPPER: And that's for high-risk groups and front-line health care workers.

When might the common man and woman and child be able to get a vaccine? April? May?

GUPTA: Yes, I think so. We have we have been trying to do the math on this, and I think we can show you.

But, basically, they anticipate, again, if both of these vaccines, the Moderna and the Pfizer one, do get authorized, 40 million doses, the next month of December, that's 20 million people, because it's two shots each. Do the math on that, and that takes you to the end of March with these other doses, 150 million doses by then, 75 million people.

And these are exactly who you say, Jake. They are going to be probably initially high-risk health care workers, health care workers who are taking care of COVID patients, especially with the strain on the health system. You got to keep them protected, followed by more vulnerable patients, either because of age, because of preexisting conditions.

And then it will just continue into the summer and into the fall.

TAPPER: So, Pfizer and Moderna, those are two-dose vaccines. You need two shots.

GUPTA: Right.

TAPPER: Today, Johnson & Johnson said that, by early 2021, they expect to know how effective its single-dose vaccine might be. Each one of these is coming along at a critical period, right in the middle of this transition.

Could this transition slow down distribution? Or is it often running on its own regardless of who's in the White House?

GUPTA: It's a really good question, Jake. And I have been talking to lots of people about this.

I think that, first of all, it's a very complicated distribution. I mean, it's one of the most logistically challenged distributions we have seen maybe ever. And it's sort of been ongoing. I mean, some of the plans for this distribution have been ongoing. There's a lot of things that could go wrong.

But I will say, Jake, as we talked about even last week, there's been a lot of focus on Operation Warp Speed, the vaccine obviously itself, but then all the other steps, the manufacturing, the distribution. Feel like they have gotten a lot of this under way, not as good with testing, obviously, not as good with the messaging on masks.

But with this, while there's things that could go wrong, it seems like you could still go find even during transition.

TAPPER: Well, we are certainly hoping so, and Operation Warp Speed, again, a big success. At least, we're crossing our fingers and hoping that it will be.

[16:25:02]

But as much as that vaccine gives us hope, of course, in the meantime, we have to acknowledge, the pandemic, it's getting worse, more deaths every day, the highest rate of hospitalization that we have seen so far.

You got to talk exclusively with White House Coronavirus Task Force member Dr. Deborah Birx. What is her outlook on the pandemic as of right now?

GUPTA: Well, I think it's safe to say that she is -- she's pretty worried, Jake.

I had a conversation with her. She's always careful. But she was quite candid about this particular point. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. DEBORAH BIRX, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS RESPONSE COORDINATOR: When you look at what's happening now, the rate of rise is dramatically different. And the number of states and the number of counties in the United States that have what we consider a red zone because of their characteristics is now well over half of the country.

So, this is faster, it's broader. And what worries me, it could be longer. And I think it's on all of us right now to make sure that it's not longer.

I'm making the personal sacrifices not to infect my parents and my pregnant daughter. And there's a lot of people out there who know how to protect one another. And we just need to make sure we're all doing that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUPTA: I think, Jake, the thing that I took away more than anything, we have seen the surges in the past.

I think everything is going to be dictated by how long -- we're going to go up. We know that. How long is it going to sort of plateau, this new surge? Is it going to stay there for a while? Is it going to come back down?

Our decisions and behavior now will affect that, I think, more than anything else.

TAPPER: Thanksgiving is obviously next week, Sanjay. She talked to you about many cities and states limiting the number of guests that people can have at their homes.

What did she have to say about that?

GUPTA: Well, she's trying to be very practical. I mean, she's dealing with this, I think, in her own family as well.

But, like, how do you determine this, how many people vs. households? I asked her specifically.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIRX: I don't like it to be any number. I like it to be, keep it to your immediate household, because if you say it can be 10, and it's eight people from four different families, then that probably is not the same degree of safe as 10 people from your immediate household.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUPTA: So, I mean, Jake, it's going to be us, just myself, my wife and our three daughters this year.

I know I think you said it's going to be the same for you. We're just not doing it, not a wash this year. We will still Zoom with my parents and everything, but I think we're following the same sort of guidance that she's talking about.

TAPPER: Yes, look, it sucks.

I mean, I -- we always have my brother and his family come in from San Francisco. My mom and her partner come down from Philadelphia, my in- laws. But I don't want any of them to get sick. So we're just going to wait until Thanksgiving 2021.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks so much.

And Sunday, on "STATE OF THE UNION," I'm going to talk to the head of Operation Warp Speed. That's Moncef Slaoui. Plus, Jen Psaki from the Biden transition team will join me as well, and also John Bolton and Maryland Republican Governor Larry Hogan.

That's at 9:00 a.m. and noon Eastern on CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION."

Parents and kids protesting, saying the New York City mayor messed up by closing schools, part anger, park confusion, as cities across the country try to stop this monster wave from spreading.

Stay with us.

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