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The Lead with Jake Tapper

U.S. Sees Record-Setting 187,000+ Cases in a Single Day; President Stalls Transition Process by Refusing to Concede; Georgia's Two Senate Runoffs Will Decide If Republicans Or Democrats Control Senate. Aired 4:30-5p ET

Aired November 20, 2020 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: More of the kind of records no one wants to be setting when it comes to the coronavirus. In our health lead today, the highest number of new cases in a single day, nearly 188,000 and more than 2,000 deaths just yesterday, the highest daily death count in the United States since May.

And as CNN'S Nick Watt reports for us now, with Thanksgiving next week, new model show the worse is sadly yet to come.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Today, Pfizer and BioNTech submitted their COVID-19 vaccine to the FDA for emergency use authorization. There could be shots in some arms before New Year's.

DR. ASHISH JHA, DEAN, BROWN UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: This pandemic will start getting better once we get into February, March. And, by April/May, things will be dramatically better.

WATT: But what about now? Thursday, a record number of new cases, more than 187,000. A record number of people in the hospital, more than 80,000. And for the first time since early May, more than 2,000 lives reported lost to COVID-19 in a single day.

JHA: We are entering, and are in now -- not even entering, in the worst phase of the pandemic.

WATT: College football officials have now called off 16 games this weekend. Today in Illinois, movie theaters, museums, indoor bars all closed again. Tomorrow night, 10:00 p.m., an overnight curfew kicks in across much of California.

DR. MARK GHALY, CALIFORNIA HHS SECRETARY: We, too, are seeing this surge growing faster and faster and we must address it immediately.

WATT: In New York?

PROTESTERS: Open our schools! Open our schools! WATT: Schools just closed after the city's positivity rate crept to 3

percent. Tempers are high.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why can a child go to a restaurant, why can a child go everywhere else but school? There is no excuse!

WATT: Now we hear that New York City restaurants might close again after Thanksgiving and the schools might actually reopen.

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DR. JAY VARMA, SENIOR ADVISOR FOR PUBLIC HEALHT, NYC MAYOR'S OFFICE: The plan right now is to work on a plan so that after the Thanksgiving break, we can bring everybody back into the schools and we're going to adjust and adapt our protocols so that we can continue to do in-person learning.

WATT: The latest signs suggest that schools are not super spreaders.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: My feeling is the default position -- keep the schools open if you possibly can.

WATT: The CDC and some states advising us not to travel over Thanksgiving. Utah had said just one household for dinner but --

GOV. GARY HERBERT (R-UT): We are taking that out of the order. What do you in the confines of your own home is going to be up to you, but we are also giving strong recommendations of how you can conduct that in a safe environment.

WATT: Today, ten months since the first confirmed case in this country. We are still unsure, close schools, keep restaurants open or vice versa? Are strict rules best or just recommendations? Is personal freedom the priority, or the health of others?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WATT (on camera): And I'm sick of saying it, but I'm going to see it again, masks and mandates work. Today, the CDC just published data from Kansas in the summer. Counties with mask mandates, cases fell. Counties without them, cases rose. And those university of Washington models just tweaked their model. If we all wore masks over the winter, Jake, we would save 65,000 lives.

TAPPER: You keep saying it, Nick, and we'll keep airing it. Thanks so much for that report. Appreciate it.

WATT: Yeah.

TAPPER: Joining me now is the director of the Center for Child Health, Behavior and Development at Seattle Research Institute, Dr. Dmitri Christakis. He's also the editor in chief at "The Journal of the American Medical Association".

Dr. Christakis, very simply put, should schools be open, do you think? DR. DIMITRI CHRISTAKIS, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR CHILD HEALTH, BEHAVIOR &

DEVELOPMENT, SEATTLE CHILDREN'S RESEARCH INSTITUTE: Well, it's a really important question. I'd like to put it in a larger context, Jake, because frequently when this -- when that conversation was taking place, it's been discussed in terms of schools being opened or people dying. When it's phrased that way, it's kind of a no-brainer. Everybody immediately rushes to close schools but that's really an apples to orange comparison and it belies the fact that going to school has significant implications for children's health and their longevity.

And, in fact, we just completed a study that looked at the decision to close the school in the spring -- so not today but in the past, in the spring -- and it found that there is a 98 percent chance that more life years (ph) were lost than were saved.

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TAPPER: Dr. Christakis, hold on. I'm sorry -- I'm sorry for interrupting. The -- whatever -- the satellite just went out again. If you could repeat that sentence so we could all hear it exactly what you just said before.

CHRISTAKIS: So, what we found was that the decision to close schools in the spring almost certainly resulted, over time, in more life years lost than saved.

TAPPER: Oh.

CHRISTAKIS: And the reason for that is because education improves health and distance learning does not work particularly for primary school children without parental involvement. So, what does that mean? That means that children today in primary school are less likely to graduate. And in time, that's going to mean they live shorter lives. On average, three months less.

So, it's invisible now but those years, those life years will be lost over time in the end.

So, back to your question. Should schools be opened or closed? We have to think about it holistically, and we have to realize that closing schools does cost lives. Schools should be, in my opinion, the last to close and the first to open.

We can make -- we haven't, but we can make businesses whole. We can -- we can pay workers. We can pay shop owners. It's not as easy to make children whole.

There are problems that money can fix and those that money cannot. So, we should prioritize keeping kids in school for all of our benefits.

TAPPER: So, Dr. Fauci -- you agree then with the idea that what Dr. Fauci says, the default position should be keeping schools open.

So, cases are, obviously, across the country quickly rising. New York City shut down the schools in-person learning because of a 3 percent positivity rate. What should be the line, in your view, to stop in- person learning? Is there a positivity rate? Is there some sort of number that should merit that?

CHRISTAKIS: It's a really -- it's a really good question. And it should be noted that most of us are making up these numbers as we go along. And the positivity rate doesn't tell us what we really want. What we really want to know is the prevalence of disease in the community.

We don't have that because we have never collected those kinds of data. We use the positivity rate as a marker for prevalence. The prevalence is almost certainly lower than the positivity rate.

But just to put it in prospective, the prevalence in New York of 3 percent is bad but it's not actually horrendous.

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It's equivalent to what is a case in Germany and Germany has made a decision to keep schools open and shut down all businesses.

So, in my opinion, is there a way to keep schools open in New York City? Absolutely. I'm really pleased to see it looks like they may be reversing their decision.

TAPPER: And it looks as though, based on the data we have, that actually in person school when it comes to the coronavirus, is more dangerous for teachers and faculty theoretically than for students because this you doesn't affect kids to the same degree. Once a vaccine is approved, should teachers, do you think, be included in some of the early groups to get the vaccine? Teachers and faculty members?

CHRISTAKIS: Absolutely. I couldn't agree with that more.

So, I'm a health care worker. I've been working for nine months without a vaccine as all health care workers have. I would happily give my vaccine to a teacher to get her or him back in a classroom sooner. They are essential workers. They are incredibly important to the health and longevity of our children.

So, yes, I would prioritize them. If that is what it takes to get them back into schools.

I should point out that I think it's very likely children -- most children won't return to in-person learning until September. And then there will not be a vaccine available for children in all likelihood. That was missing from the previous conversation that I heard about vaccines.

So, we will need to immunize everybody else in the school, knowing that coronavirus will probably be circulating in schools because children won't be immunized but we need to protect teachers and staff members so they feel safe and return.

TAPPER: All right. Dr. Dimitri Christakis, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

President Trump setting fire to policies without handing Joe Biden as much as of a bucket of water. One of the top guys during the Biden- Obama transition weighs in on the dangers of what the president is doing, next.

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TAPPER: In our Politics Lead, President Trump, the outgoing president, seems determined to leave chaos and confusion in his wake on his way out of the White House. Since the race was called for President-elect Joe Biden, Trump has fired his Defense Secretary Mark Esper. Then he fired the most senior cyber security official at DHS, the person in charge of securing the election, Chris Krebs.

He has also ordered the Pentagon to pull thousands of troops from Afghanistan and Iraq against the recommendations of the commanders. And now, Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin is declining to extend federal emergency lending programs intended to help struggling businesses during this once in a lifetime pandemic, wreaking havoc on the U.S. economy.

Here to discuss all of it, CNN senior political commentator, David Axelrod.

David, so outgoing President Trump seems to be doing the exact opposite of trying to make this transition smooth. But we should just note, this isn't about Joe Biden or Kamala Harris or Ron Klain. This is about what the president, on his way out the door, is doing to hurt the American people.

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah. Absolutely, Jake.

Look, I find myself thinking a lot lately about the transition that we experienced back in 2008 when Barack Obama was elected president, and as you remember, he ran a very tough campaign against some of the Bush policies, but once the election was over, the transition began immediately. And there was a high level of coordination between the incoming Obama administration and all of the senior officials and their counterparts in the Bush administration. And I'll give you one example.

You know, we were entering the teeth of this economic crisis, the auto industry was floundering and the Obama team asked the Trump team if they would extend transitional financing for GM and Chrysler so that the new administration could have a little bit of time to consider what to do about the auto industry. They did that.

We coordinated on national security issues, including some eminent potential terrorist threats. And, you know, just at every level, there was a sense that our job is to make your job easier when you take over on January 20th. That is the complete opposite of what we are seeing here. And, George Bush, I'm telling you, did not do because he loved

everything that we said in that campaign. He did it because he thought I'm a trustee of this democracy, it is my responsibility to the country to make sure that this next president gets off to the right start.

And so, you know, this is -- this is quite different. You -- everywhere you turn, it seems, President Trump is looking to subvert the ability of the new administration to get off to a smooth start. He is planting time bombs everywhere. And just the absence of a transition, itself, is subversive, particularly in the midst of a crisis.

TAPPER: Yeah, in the midst of this pandemic. Is President-elect Biden once he is sworn in January 20th, is he going to be able to reverse many of these decisions on day one? Like I don't know exactly what his goals are in Afghanistan, for example, but if he wanted to say, well, hold on, we had 4,500 troops there, I think we should have that right now, I didn't get a transition and I need to figure out what to do. Can he send the troops back? Should he send -- I mean, I don't even know. This is unprecedented.

AXELRO: Right. It's creating sort of small crises that in the midst of large crises, you don't want to have to deal with, if you're president.

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In the case of Afghanistan, you know, this decision to pull troops was announced abruptly apparently without consultation with the governments of Afghanistan or Iraq or our allies. You know, there are 40 countries that are there with us. NATO allies and other allies who are there in Afghanistan with us, they did not know. And our troops, though, they are not as numerous as they once were, play an important role in very discrete missions there that if you -- if they just withdraw are left untended so that creates a crisis for the government of Afghanistan and our allies.

And the government of Afghanistan as you know, Jake, is in peace talks with the Taliban. If the Taliban senses that, all of a sudden, these American troops are leaving and the government of Afghanistan is weaker -- well, that puts them in a different mindset as well. So, you know, it truly is subversive. But it does create problems. Obviously, the new president has to deal with whatever he is left with, but it is very rare for this president to try and undermine the next president to the degree that this president appears committed to do.

TAPPER: No, it's crazy and it actually could end up costing human lives.

Today, Senator Lamar Alexander who's retiring, he called on outgoing President Trump to let the transition process begin. But for the most part, I have to say Republican senators have been silent. What do you make of it?

AXELROD: I make that they are scared of the base. They're worried about Trump and they want to harness him for these Georgia races and they don't -- and they don't want to turn off his base or him before that campaign is -- those two runoffs are over on January 5th. But it really is shameful and damaging to the country.

TAPPER: David Axelrod, thanks so much. Good to see you again.

AXELROD: Georgia's presidential recount is over but the political fight is far from finished there, as David just mentioned, with Senate control on the line. Vice President Pence making a visit to the Peach State.

Stay with us.

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TAPPER: In our 2020 lead, today, Georgia's secretary of state today certified President-elect Joe Biden's win after a statewide audit of votes. Biden carried the state by 12,670 votes, but Georgia's real prize right now is the January 5th runoff elections for the two Senate seats there, which will determine which party controls the U.S. Senate.

CNN's Kyung Lah reports for us now from Georgia, where Vice President Mike Pence is campaigning for the two Republican candidates today.

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CROWD: Four more years! Four more years!

KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): You are hearing correctly. This Georgia crowd is calling for a second Trump term despite defeat.

Vice President Mike Pence on his first return to the campaign trail pledged it's not over.

MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're going to keep fighting until every legal vote is counted. We're going to keep fighting until every illegal vote is thrown out. And whatever the outcome, we will never stop fighting to make America great again.

LAH: That's despite the hand count led by a Republican secretary of state in Georgia.

BRAD RAFFENSERGER (R), GEORGIA SECRETARY OF STATE: Working as an engineer throughout my life, I live by the motto that numbers don't lie.

LAH: A fact the vice president is ignoring, while he dances a political two-step.

President Trump still insists he won. Meanwhile, Pence is calling for Georgia Republicans to vote in the January 5th Senate runoff to fight a Joe Biden presidency. PENCE: The Republican Senate majority could be the last line of

defense.

LAH: Supporters who showed up to see the vice president have no problem following this logic.

Do you believe the election results?

PENNY CLOPTON, VETERAN AND TRUMP SUPPORTER: No.

LAH: Penny Clopton who came to see Pence carried a "stop the steal" sign. She says all of this makes her want to vote in January even more.

And how different is the energy from November to January?

CLOPTON: It's still here. It hasn't gone anywhere.

LAH: What do you believe will happen on January 5th?

CLOPTON: I believe that people will come out and vote for Republicans, so that we can -- I guess so that it will be a fair fight when things come to the Senate.

CROWD: Let's vote blue! Let's vote blue!

LAH: The Democratic challengers for the two Senate seats Jon Ossoff and Reverend Raphael Warnock attacked the GOP fight with reality.

REV. RAPHAEL WARNOCK (D), GEORGIA SENATE CANDIDATE: They don't like the results. It wasn't supposed to turn out that way. Explain that to me.

LAH: The challenge for the Democrats will be turnout. Something even the most die-hard Democratic Georgians understand.

TINA MARIE HEAD, GEORGIA VOTER: I think the people who voted in the general election will not come out for the runoff.

AMANDA GAINER, GEORGIA VOTER: We've been red for so many years, you know? I'm just a little concerned about that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAH (on camera): Just minutes from now, we are expecting that Georgia's Republican Governor Brian Kemp will formally certify the state's 16 electoral votes for Joe Biden. After those votes are certified, Jake, we are expecting the governor to take questions from reporters -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Kyung Lah in Canton, Georgia. Thanks so much for your report.

Finally today, we would like to remember just one of the 253,000 American lives lost during this pandemic. Danielle Cater (ph), she was only 30 years old. Everyone called her

Dani (ph). She married her high school sweetheart Tim. She loved horseback riding and her dog Charlie. Dani's parents say throughout the pandemic, she urged mask-wearing, she followed CDC guidelines. Sadly, she tested positive for coronavirus on October 31st and two days later, an at-home test showed that her oxygen levels were dangerously low.

Dani was rushed to the hospital. She died the following day. COVID protocol sadly did not allow her family to be there but they are grieving, grieving deeply.

May her memory be a blessing.

You can follow me on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter @JakeTapper. You can tweet the show @TheLeadCNN. Our coverage on CNN continues right now. I will see you Sunday morning.

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