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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Food Insecurity; Millions Ignoring CDC Travel Warnings; Biden Transition. Aired 4:30-5p ET

Aired November 24, 2020 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:32:25]

ERICA HILL, CNN HOST: President-elect Joe Biden's team and government agencies are finally starting to huddle now that the transition to a Biden -- to a Biden administration -- pardon me -- is officially under way.

And in the last 24 hours, since that formal sign-off was given, an official says the Biden transition team has now been in touch with all federal agencies. And, as that process begins, we're actually learning new details about the timing behind the GSA administrator's decision to formally start the transition.

CNN's Kristen Holmes joins me now live.

So, Kristen, what more are you learning here?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Erica, we knew that this decision had been hard for Emily Murphy. We knew she'd been talking to quite a few people.

But what we have learned is that, on Friday, as Georgia was certifying its election after that hand recount, GSA officials were telling White House officials, essentially giving them a heads up that, if Michigan and Pennsylvania on Monday were going to certify, as they were expected to do, that it was likely that Murphy was going to ascertain the election.

Now, we know that this triggered a series of events, one, the preparation from GSA, the General Services Administration, to get that paperwork, to get everything in order to start that transition. But the other side was what we had Jim Acosta reporting last night, which was all of those close aides and lawyers to the president on the phone in the office with him essentially convincing him that this was the right move and that this was going to happen.

Now, we have also learned that Murphy was surprised or even shocked when she saw that tweet from President Trump moments after she sent the letter to the Biden team and to the president-elect where he essentially said that he was recommending to Emily Murphy and her team that they ascertain this election, that she had had no direct communication with him and, again, was surprised to see that he was somehow taking credit for this action.

HILL: It's fascinating, I have to say, all of this, as we're learning how it's playing out.

Meantime, there's also this letter that was viewed by CNN. President Trump's chief of staff, Mark Meadows, notified staff last night of the ascertainment, but also made sure to put up some boundaries when it came to cooperation, writing -- quote -- "Our work here is not finished. Unless specifically authorized, GOP personnel are not permitted to speak directly with a member of the Biden transition team or the federal transition coordinator."

How am I supposed to interpret that?

HOLMES: Well, look, there are really strict rules in place for career officials and the head of agencies to actually do this transition process.

They are the ones who reach out to the agency review teams, which are the teams that we saw Biden send out, that long list of people, from health, to the arts, to sciences. And that is who the transition coordinator is supposed to talk to.

[16:35:08]

Now, it doesn't always work this way. No, it doesn't. There's usually informal conversations, particularly among national security folks, who just want to get a feel for it. We had people talking to us about the Obama transition in the Bush era, and how the best part for them was that they just walked around the halls of HHS, for example, talking to people, looking at modeling, seeing how the work there was done every day, because you have to remember that not everybody who comes into this administration is coming from a background as a former government employee.

A lot of them have worked on campaigns or on the Hill, but they haven't worked in an actual agency. So they want to hit the ground running.

Now, I do want to note here that one thing is very important. We have been talking about this coronavirus response nonstop and how it was really being disrupted by the fact that Emily Murphy, GSA, and Trump himself were stonewalling this election and denying its results.

And we have learned that Health and Human Services, that they have set up meetings with Biden's team, that they are already trying to get briefings. They are working their way through to give them the information that we they need, and that Biden's team is planning on looking at that coronavirus data as soon as possible.

This is a key component here, not only so that they can respond, hit the ground running on day one, but, also, as we look forward to the vaccine distribution. One of the biggest concerns that health experts that I have spoken to said was that there wasn't going to be a seamless transition, that the Biden team was not going to know what was going on in order to actually carry out the distribution of a vaccine.

This is a national rollout and not something that is done on a regular basis. And it could affect hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people's lives. So this is what we're looking at right now. And it does appear that at least Health and Human Services is talking to Biden's team and getting that out there.

HILL: Which is very good to hear.

Kristen Holmes, appreciate it. Great reporting, as always. Thank you.

COVID cases skyrocketing, as millions of Americans board planes -- why so many say they're ignoring the warnings from public health experts this Thanksgiving.

Plus, cars lined up for miles, waiting for hours for food days before Thanksgiving, some being turned away. And, of course, it's not just the holidays. In many cases, this is an everyday issue -- the economic pain you won't see on the New York Stock Exchange.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:41:50]

HILL: The CDC's best guidance on holiday travel this year, just don't.

At the top of its Web site in bold, stating: "Staying home is the best way to protect yourself and others from COVID-19."

And yet we know air travel is at a record high right now during the pandemic.

And, as CNN's Pete Muntean reports, while some people have no choice but to travel, there are others who do have that choice and have decided they want to take the risk.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Caroline Osler says she could not stay home anymore, so she took a coronavirus test and boarded a flight home to Kentucky for Thanksgiving.

CAROLINE OSLER, TRAVELER: I think at some point, it just -- it's too hard to stay away from family, especially for the holidays.

MUNTEAN: It is the rationale of 50 million Americans, according to AAA, who will travel by plane, train or car this week.

The new forecast is only a 10 percent decrease from last year's pre- pandemic levels, but AAA thinks the actual number could be even lower, as coronavirus cases surge. Last week, the Centers for Disease Control said to cancel holiday travel.

YASMINE DEHGHANI, TRAVELER: I understand the risk that I'm taking, but I want to see my family.

MUNTEAN: Passenger levels are already starting to rise again and set a new record of the pandemic on Sunday. This past weekend was the busiest three days at airports since travel cratered.

Major airlines are gearing up for more passengers and adding new flights for the first time since March. Airline industry groups say they are not encouraging travel, but they're not discouraging it either.

NICHOLAS CALIO, PRESIDENT AND CEO, AIRLINES FOR AMERICA: I think it's perfectly ethical. We would not fly people if it were not safe.

MUNTEAN: Airlines feel empowered by new research that says cleaning like this, plus heavily filtered air on board an airplane and everyone wearing masks, keeps virus transmission rates low.

DR. LEONARD MARCUS, HARVARD: It's a layered approach.

MUNTEAN: Dr. Leonard Marcus is on the team of Harvard biologists who study the air inside airliners. Their findings, that being in a passenger cabin is maybe safer than a grocery store. But Marcus cautions travelers to plan every step of their trip to reduce risk door to door.

MARCUS: Everyone has to make a decision about their own personal risk. It's a very personal decision.

MUNTEAN: Airlines are starting programs to test passengers for coronavirus, but only on limited international routes.

For Caroline Osler, that means taking another coronavirus test before gathering around the table for a Thanksgiving like no other.

OSLER: I think it reaches a point where you have to decide what's best for yourself and how you can best protect yourself and those around you as well.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MUNTEAN: The TSA thinks not many people are canceling their trips, meaning tomorrow could set a new air travel record of the pandemic, one that could be broken on Sunday. That's when the TSA thinks everyone who left for the holiday could be coming home all at once -- Erica.

HILL: Pete Muntean live for us there.

Pete, thank you.

Well, the scene in New Jersey today really speaks volumes about the reality for so many Americans right now, as they continue to struggle during this pandemic.

Look at these cars lined up for miles in East Rutherford, New Jersey. And in what's perhaps even more astonishing here is that some willingly waiting three, four or five hours, right, just to get this food donation to feed their families and, in many cases, this is not just about a holiday meal. This is about daily survival.

[16:45:03]

CNN's Brynn Gingras is at that distribution point all day.

And, Brynn, the need there like we're seeing in so many places ion so many places across the country is sadly far exceeding the demand.

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's true, Erica.

And when you see people come in their cars and they are literally crying as they receive those meals in the trunk of their car, it shows you how desperate people are feeling and how important these causes are. I want to show you the line of cars. What you saw earlier you showed your viewers, that was in this morning's distribution here at the Meadowlands YMCA.

Right now, as we zoom in, you see those cars lined up, every single car is a family, multiple families in some cases, who are waiting to get these free meals. Further down, I can see a family right now who brought a soccer ball just to keep their kids occupied because they have been waiting here for two, three hours just to get those meals again.

And, let's keep in mind, Erica, we are in a county in this country, one of the wealthiest counties in the entire country and this is the need we are seeing. Go down this line. It stretches earlier this morning two miles and it's a little less than that but typically this food bank tells us they don't really see this demand in the afternoon, more so in the morning. That's not the case. That's not what they're seeing today.

And I want you to hear from these people who are in this line, sometimes visiting every week. Some people will go to a different food bank tomorrow just to have enough food for their week -- Erica.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DOROTHY HEINCELMAN, WAITED FOR FOOD DONATION: It's hard. My mortgage went up. My taxes went up. And I could barely, you know, afford it, besides all of my other bills.

GINGRAS: So you need the food?

HEINCELMAN: Oh, definitely need the food.

DEBRA BRODERICK, WAITED FOR FOOD DONATION: If it wasn't for this place, we don't know where we would get our food because we need to pay our bills.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GINGRAS: And it's just those heart breaking stories are repeated literally by every person in these cars, just trying to find a way to make end's meet and relying on their communities to help them out, Erica.

HILL: Brynn, as all of this need is increasing, I would imagine this is also just a strain in terms of what is available for donations. Are those dropping off in terms of both financial and donated foods?

GINGRAS: They are. I mean, there are volunteers, fewer because that is a really -- all they have are volunteers. There are employees getting laid off. Even at this food bank, they tell us they won't be able to survive the next couple of months if they don't get more donations, get help from the federal government who they say the airlines, they help airlines and other industries, help the nonprofits, because as you can see, the demand is there -- Erica.

HILL: Yeah, it certainly is. And there are so many ways that people can help.

Brynn Gingras, thank you so much.

I just want to point out, we have those resources at CNN.com/impact and I will tweet that as well.

Could grandma get a vaccine in time to get a hug on Christmas? Well, you know, which Americans may be getting vaccine shots by mid- December.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:52:56]

HILL: Breaking news in our health lead. The White House coronavirus task force is considering now shortening the COVID quarantine period. That's according to the HHS assistant secretary, Admiral Brett Giroir, who says they are looking at evidence that a shorter quarantine and a test may be enough to slow the spread. He did not, however, just say how long that newly shortened period could be.

Joining me now, the co-director of the Center for Vaccine Development at Texas Children's Hospital, Dr. Peter Hotez.

Dr. Hotez, always good to have you with us.

So, what do you make of that, this news that we're just learning, potentially a shorter quarantine period? And would you have a stab at guess as to what that actually mean in terms of length?

DR. PETER HOTEZ, CO-DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR VACCINE DEVELOPMENT AT TEXAS CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL: Well, I haven't seen what Dr. Brett Giroir is looking at and what's particular data. But, you know, these are called incubation periods, that's what really quarantine is about. And the amount of time you need from the period when you're exposed to the virus to you actually show symptoms and become positive.

And, usually, that's -- if you're going to become symptomatic, it's usually around four to six days. But we know that this is a range. It's a probability. And roughly, about 90 percent become positive within 10 or 11 days.

So, possibly that's what they're looking at, cutting it short those extra three days, because 90 percent of the people are going to be positive by that period. And even 14 days is not perfect. You still get the outliers that do it after 20 -- that are positive after 20 days.

HILL: Sure.

HOTEZ: So, probably something along those lines to ease things up a bit.

HILL: As we look forward to a vaccine, we spoke with one doctor a short time ago who is at one of the five hospitals in the state of Florida that will be receiving those initial doses of the Pfizer vaccine.

Based on what we know at this point, do you believe there could be front line health care workers who are receiving their first dose of a vaccine by mid December?

HOTEZ: I think that is very possibly, because Pfizer, which is the first vaccine, the Pfizer BioNTech vaccine will be as requesting emergency use authorization, will take two or three weeks for the Food and Drug Administration to review all of the data.

[16:55:13]

And, remember, when they review the data, they are actually going back to the primary data. They're not just looking at company press releases. That's why it takes a couple of weeks.

And then assuming they confirm all of the evidence for efficacy and safety, what they will then do is present it to VRBPAC which is a committee of the FDA, as well as the ACIP. And once that's done, I would say within 24 hours, you could start releasing vaccine to the public.

So, when you add up those days, that's what it comes out to be, about three or four weeks.

So, yes, I think it's possible beginning with health care workers. I'm hearing different reports about how many doses Pfizer will have by that period of time, whether it's 25 million in the U.S. or 40 million. We are hearing different amounts. But you get a sense of that.

And then things will really pick up a lot in the New Year.

HILL: It's -- I mean, it's certainly encouraging. I have to say, though, this new poll, this Axios/Ipsos, really stopped me for a second. So, 51 percent of respondents said that they are likely to get a COVID vaccine as soon as it's released. Now, it's important to point out, this is actually up 14 points from when they did that polling in September. But still, when we're looking at barely more than 50 percent, is there a messaging issue?

HOTEZ: Well, there has been. I mean, Operation Warp Speed has done an excellent job in terms of the scientific rigor of their studies and the integrity of the clinical trials. But they never put forward a communication plan. It was always left to the pharma CEOs who often bungled that message. I think that helped erode confidence.

And also, you have all of the politicization of the vaccine by the White House, that didn't help anything certainly. Then you have a pretty aggressive anti-vaccine movement.

So, you have those three components up, you get a significant percentage of vaccine hesitancy. I'm hopeful that as people see individuals getting vaccinated without any ill effects and things will gain momentum to the point where more people will be accepting of it. But you're always going to have a percentage of people who are recalcitrant and believe in conspiracy theories.

And for that, we're going to have to address the anti-vaccine lobby. But we have to get -- it's a pretty high bar. We did a study with a group at City University of New York to find that at least 70 percent of Americans are going have to get vaccinated with a high efficacy vaccine before we can think about reducing transmission.

So, the first part of the vaccine is to reduce severity of illness, prevent people from going to hospital or the ICU. The second piece we get the numbers really up there so we can actually halt transmission and that's going to be a higher bar.

HILL: Yeah. You know, as we look -- you've talked so often about what has hindered the response in this country being the lack of a national plan. I would start by something that Dr. Tom Frieden, former director of the CDC wrote for CNN. So, he's suggesting in an op-ed that the U.S. should implement a nationwide alert system. So, think of, you know, almost the terror alert system but so that it's not state-by- state, right? We would know if you were at orange or red what that criteria was.

And his point was if everybody was on the same system and you knew what you were dealing with, that could also incentivize people to make sure how to make the situation better. How effective do you think a national COVID-19 alert system would be?

HOTEZ: Well, I think it would help and also help unify the country. I remember Prime Minister Boris Johnson has already done for this for the U.K. and we do it here in our -- in Harris County. Judge Lena Hidalgo has implemented this.

But it's all very fragmented and this has been the whole problem with our response and one of the reasons we failed so miserably and we have -- we've lost 257,000 American lives so far.

HILL: Well, hopefully, maybe this is something that could work and that could unite us and perhaps looking to Harris County for ways to get that started.

Dr. Hotez, always appreciate your time. Thank you.

HOTEZ: Great to be on. Thank you.

HILL: Finally, we want to remember two front line heroes who died from coronavirus. This past weekend, the Kansas City Fire Department lost two employees. Everybody called Captain Robert Rocha "Bobby". He was 60 years old. He'd been with the department for 29 years.

Scott Davidson was just 45, a communications specialist and a paramedic. His coworkers remember his calming voice. The chief says the department will struggle with morale for a while.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF DONNA LAKE, KANSAS CITY, MISSOURI FIRE DEPARTMENT: You know, this was the worst-case scenario that they would never come out of the hospital alive and, you know, it's devastating. It's devastating to all of us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Our deepest condolences to the Kansas City Fire Department and to their families.

Thank you so much for joining us on THE LEAD today. I'm Erica Hill, in for Jake Tapper. You can follow me on Twitter @EricaRHill and be sure to tweet the show @TheLeadCNN.

Our coverage on CNN continues right now.

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