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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Interview With Former BARDA Director Dr. Rick Bright; U.S. COVID-19 Hospitalizations Hit Record High; Another Legal Loss For Trump in Pennsylvania. Aired 4-4:30p ET

Aired November 27, 2020 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:00]

LISA LING, HOST, "THIS IS LIFE WITH LISA LING": It was hugely, hugely transformative, a lot of sons of single moms who are carrying so much weight, and it was really powerful.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: We will tune in Sunday night 9:00 and 10:00 Eastern.

Thank you so much, Lisa Ling.

I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thanks for being with me.

"THE LEAD" starts right now.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: And welcome to THE LEAD on this Friday. I'm Pamela Brown, in for Jake Tapper today.

And we want to start with our 2020 lead, and another major legal defeat for President Trump's campaign. This afternoon, a federal appeals court shooting down the Trump team's attempt to challenge the election results in Pennsylvania, saying their claims have -- quote -- "no merit."

And this ruling comes just hours after President Trump admitted for the first time since the election that he will leave the White House in January if the Electoral College votes for Joe Biden.

But the president stopped short of conceding, claiming once again, without offering any proof, that there was massive voter fraud. Those repeated denials aren't stopping the Biden team, though, from preparing for another round of Cabinet announcements next week, as Biden spends today with his family in Delaware.

And late this afternoon, President Trump choppered to Camp David to meet up with his family after an early round of golf, all while avoiding reporters again, as CNN's Kaitlan Collins reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Before joining his family at Camp David, President Trump spent the day at his golf course, after claiming president-elect Biden can't enter the White House until he can prove he got 80 million votes.

That tweet came after Trump confirmed he will leave office at the Electoral College certifies Biden's win.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Certainly, I will. Certainly, I will. And you know that. But I think that there will be a lot of things happening between now and the 20th.

COLLINS: Trump took questions Thanksgiving night for the first time since the election. And three weeks later, he's still denying reality.

TRUMP: I did win by a tremendous amount, but it hasn't been reported yet.

COLLINS: Trump refused to say what the threshold is for him to concede the election.

QUESTION: If the electoral college votes for Joe Biden, will you concede?

TRUMP: Well, if they do, they made a mistake.

COLLINS: It's customary for outgoing presidents to attend the inauguration of their successor, but Trump played coy when asked if he would follow tradition.

TRUMP: I don't want to say that yet. I mean, I know the answer. I will be honest, I know the answer. But I just don't want to say it yet.

COLLINS: The president made multiple false claims about the election, including when he insisted Republican poll watchers weren't allowed to watch votes be counted in Pennsylvania.

TRUMP: When they throw them out of rooms--

QUESTION: But that's not true. They didn't do that.

TRUMP: Sure it is.

QUESTION: You're--

TRUMP: And when they put them in pens--

QUESTION: Your attorneys admitted they were in the room then.

TRUMP: Excuse me. No, they didn't. My attorneys did not admit anything. And it's all different places.

RUDY GIULIANI, ATTORNEY FOR PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Good afternoon.

COLLINS: His legal team suffered another blow today, when a federal appeals court rejected their request for an emergency injunction to overturn the certification of Pennsylvania's results. In a sharply worded opinion, the judge, who was appointed by Trump,

said they had no specific allegations and no proof.

GIULIANI: Wow, what a beautiful day.

COLLINS: The president's legal team and his Republican allies have now lost or withdrawn more than 31 cases since the election. This comes as the high-ranking government official Trump fired for saying this election was the most secure in U.S. history told "60 Minutes" he stands by his statement.

QUESTION: There is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes or changed votes or was in any way compromised?

CHRISTOPHER KREBS, FORMER DIRECTOR, CYBERSECURITY AND INFRASTRUCTURE SECURITY AGENCY: Yes, I stand by that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: And, Pam, back to that legal loss for the president today, just to give you a sense of how much this judge was rejecting this argument from the Trump campaign -- and a reminder, this judge was appointed by President Trump -- he also wrote: "Charges of unfairness are serious, but calling an election unfair does not make it so."

BROWN: Those were some strong words.

And, Kaitlan, we heard you in your piece. You were in that room yesterday when President Trump took questions for the first time since he lost the election. And when he was asked about an eventual concession, President Trump lashed out at reporters.

What exactly happened?

COLLINS: Yes, this most obvious one was with Jeff Mason from Reuters, who was asking President Trump a pretty simple question: What is his threshold for conceding this election?

Because, of course, the president has refused to do so far. And he's punted it down the field, saying they want to wait for these allegations to play out. But we see how that's happening in court. And so, when Jeff asked the president to answer, what is his threshold for when he would concede the election, this is how the president responded:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: No, I can't say that at all.

QUESTION: You won't concede?

TRUMP: I think it's a possibility. They're trying to -- look, between you people--

QUESTION: Just answer the question.

TRUMP: Don't -- don't talk to me that way.

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: You're just a lightweight. Don't talk to me that -- don't talk to me that -- don't talk -- I'm the president of the United States. Don't ever talk to the president that way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Pam, he never did answer that question, even though we asked multiple times while we were in the room.

And so, of course, the president has said privately he never plans on conceding the election, that, if he does leave, he will just continue to insist it was fraudulent, though, of course, as we have noted, his legal team has been unable to bring that and prove that in court so far.

[16:05:08]

BROWN: Right. I mean, he said it was fraudulent before the election even happened.

COLLINS: Yes.

BROWN: All right, Kaitlan Collins, thank you so much for that.

And after spending Thanksgiving at home, the Biden team is prepping for the transition of power.

CNN's Arlette Saenz joining me now, joins me now from Delaware.

So, what's on Biden's upcoming schedule, Arlette?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, Pamela, president-elect Joe Biden is spending the Thanksgiving holiday weekend here at his vacation home in Rehoboth Beach, Delaware, but he is already preparing for next week, where he's expected to make another round of Cabinet announcement.

Now, Biden is expected to unveil part of his economic team at the start -- at the early part of next week. And that includes he's expected to name Janet Yellen as his choice for Treasury secretary.

Now, Janet Yellen was the former chairwoman of the Federal Reserve. And she was also the head of President Bill Clinton's Council of Economic Advisers. Biden had previously talked about how he had chosen a Treasury secretary that he thought would be amenable to both progressives and moderates within the Democratic Party.

And his choices for this economic team will be critical, as he is looking to bolster the economy in the middle of this pandemic, as so many American families are suffering. And so that is one of the points expected to come next week. Biden also on Monday will receive his first president's daily brief, which will give him his first look at the pressing national security issues that will face him in office -- Pamela.

BROWN: OK, Arlette, thank you so much for bringing us the latest there.

Let's discuss all of this.

I want to start with Jackie. And we have Jackie and Ron here,

Jackie, the Trump campaign, as Kaitlan laid out, they lost another major legal battle today in Pennsylvania.

JACKIE KUCINICH, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right.

BROWN: The judge went as far as saying their claims had no merit, not mincing any words there.

The president's legal team has lost or withdrawn at least 31 cases since the election. What do you think their endgame is at this point?

KUCINICH: I mean, this has been largely performative for some time now. I mean, just look what happened this week with Rudy Giuliani and another attorney putting the president on speaker during a very performative hearing with Pennsylvania state lawmakers about allegations of voter fraud.

In the meantime, the campaign is still fund-raising. The fund-raising ask that went out today said 75 percent of what is donated goes to a leadership PAC that the president has launched a new one, so all -- and only portions of it go to this recount fund, as they call it.

So, a lot of this is just building a war chest at this point for whatever the president decides to do after he leaves office.

BROWN: And what's interesting, too, is these legal challenges are really undercutting the president's argument that there's fraud. You have the judges using this sharp language knocking these cases down, and the fact that they're not really actually alleging fraud in the cases they put forward.

KUCINICH: Right.

BROWN: But, Ron, President Trump says it would be very difficult to concede. You heard Kaitlan lay that out there.

But for the first time, he acknowledged, if the Electoral College votes for Joe Biden, he will leave the White House. What does all of this signal to you?

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think at this point, to build on Jackie's point, it is performative, in the sense that it is not even about trying to overturn the election through the courts.

I mean, they're obviously past the point where they can realistically do that. With Michigan's certification, they have really past the point where they can even try to leverage and pressure Republican legislators to overturn the will of the voters and send contested slates of electors for Donald Trump.

This is about post-election positioning. I mean, he is building the narrative of a stab in the back, that he didn't lose the election, the election was stolen from him. That allows him to both increase his influence within the party, because it's harder to say that he led them to a dead end.

But I also think there are signs that it may become the basis for a new round of voter suppression efforts by Republican legislators and governors in some of these key states. So, the ability to -- and a third factor would be, it makes it harder for Joe Biden to work with Republicans, if the vast majority of Republican voters believe that he is sort of illegitimately in office.

So, in all of these ways, it's about changing the post-election dynamic, even as he effectively concedes the result to Joe Biden now.

BROWN: And as far as that post-election dynamic goes, Jackie, President Trump says he will go campaign in Georgia next week for the states's two Senate run-offs.

Should the Biden team be pushing harder there right now and send Joe Biden or Kamala Harris? A Democratic majority in the Senate would obviously make Biden's life a lot easier.

KUCINICH: Absolutely, but there are very different strategies at play in the Republican and the Democratic Party.

Frankly, President Trump needs to go to Georgia because of all the damage he's done degrading the vote there, saying that it's fraudulent, particularly when it comes to mail-in voting, when you have Republican voters not trusting that system.

And he has torn down the secretary of state and the governor at this point in that state. So there's some repair there. But Republicans in Georgia have every incentive to nationalize this election, to make it about the Senate, where Democrats there have really been focusing, honing the message about health care, and keeping it more in Georgia.

[16:10:19]

So, whether Biden eventually comes there, we will have to see, but so far it's been -- they have been very divergent in what they have chosen to focus on thus far in that recount -- or -- excuse me -- in the run-off election.

BROWN: Right.

And I want to talk to Ron about this election security official, a Republican Chris Krebs. He's done this first -- his first interview since being fired for pushing back against President Trump's claims of massive voter fraud.

And Krebs says that he stands by his statement that no voting system was compromised in any way during the election, this, of course, as he was fired by President Trump recently. But do you think, in light of that, he will be able to convince any skeptics, skeptical Trump voters at this point? Do you think he's going to move the needle at all in that way?

BROWNSTEIN: Very few.

I mean, I think this is a very ominous moment for the country, because both with the fact that three-quarters of Trump voters or sometimes four-fifths in polls say they believe the election was stolen, despite, as you point out, the complete failure of the Trump campaign to produce any evidence toward that, to me, it kind of parallels to what we are seeing on the coronavirus, where much of red America continues to basically say, this is overblown, I don't believe it, opposing the wearing of masks.

And you see on both of these fronts the way the country is pulling apart into separate realities. And Joe Biden ran on -- like Barack Obama, like George W. Bush, like Bill Clinton, he ran on the idea of overcoming our divisions and bringing America back together.

But you see how difficult it is going to be, particularly to me how many Republicans have been silent as Trump has spread these baseless claims. It suggests how big a hill Joe Biden faces in trying to get some of them to come together around what is I think, realistically, the biggest national security threat the country has faced since World War II.

In any other wartime, we'd be expecting both parties to come together. Right now, our assumption is they won't. And that's kind of a scary notion.

BROWN: Absolutely, really a deafening silence from so many of those Republicans.

Ron Brownstein, Jackie Kucinich, thank you both so much.

BROWNSTEIN: Thank you, Pam.

BROWN: And, meantime, the CDC schedules an emergency meeting on vaccines, while warning, tens of thousands more Americans could die before those shots are even available.

Plus, the big question: When is the vaccine coming and which Americans are first in line?

A top member of president-elect Biden's COVID task force joins us up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:16:55]

BROWN: We have some breaking news in our health lead today.

The committee advising the CDC on vaccine distribution is calling an emergency meeting for this Tuesday. And it may have something to do with the timeline for the vaccine approval and distribution. The CDC released a new forecast, meantime, predicting there could now be nearly 60,000 more COVID deaths in the U.S. by December 19.

And, as CNN's Alexandra Field reports, the U.S. is again breaking its own record for hospitalizations for the 17th day in a row.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The season usually filled with cheer is here, but the pain across the country only deepening.

DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: I expect that the daily death rate will double in the next 10 days. So, we will be seeing close to 4,000 deaths a day.

FIELD: More than 90,000 Americans spent Thanksgiving in a hospital bed, another record-setting day for the 17th day.

DR. CELINE GOUNDER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Hospitals are full already. ICUs are full. In places like El Paso, we have been talking about accessing military hospitals. In other parts of the country, we're standing up field hospitals.

FIELD: Deaths this week, already at their highest levels since May, are forecast to declined by 60,000 in the next three weeks, and health officials continue to warn about the holiday surge upon a surge.

DR. AMY COMPTON-PHILLIPS, PROVIDENCE ST. JOSEPH HEALTH: If you were with your family yesterday, stay home for the next couple weeks while we -- while you make sure that you observe quarantine.

FIELD: The CDC recommended people stay home for the holiday last week. Since then, around 6.5 million have passed through security at America's airports. More than a million of them flew on the day before Thanksgiving. That's record travel during the pandemic.

But the busiest travel day is still to come, expected on Sunday.

DR. MARIA VAN KERKHOVE, WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION: What I can say is, for travel, is that there really is no zero risk at the moment.

FIELD: In a year when we're all being asked to upend our holiday traditions, some endure. People are still lining up for Black Friday deals at GameStop in Burbank, California.

A Deloitte survey says nearly 51 percent of shoppers do feel nervous about heading to stores. But shoppers in West Nyack, New York, say it just isn't too big a risk.

FRED KNOX, BLACK FRIDAY SHOPPER: Why not? So ,the malls haven't been open for some time. So, it's time to get these sales. I'm going to take advantage of it.

FIELD: As for Thanksgiving And football, that also gets the 2020 treatment, 11 college football games canceled or postponed this week because of COVID, positive tests also recorded in the pros, the Browns, the Falcons and the Broncos all reporting cases within their organization just this week.

The Ravens announced several of their players tested positive, including star quarterback Lamar Jackson.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FIELD: A year like no other, indeed.

But, Pamela, tonight, another important development on the vaccine front. We're learning that CDC advisers will meet on Tuesday to actually vote on who will get the first doses of the vaccine once it is approved.

[16:20:00]

Draft recommendations have suggested that health care workers would go first, along with possibly some people who are considered most at risk of catching, spreading, and suffering serious consequences from COVID.

That could include people like nursing home residents, again, another important step for this much anticipated vaccine, could bring us a little bit closer to getting it into the arms of people who need it the very most -- Pamela.

BROWN: A very important step, it seems.

All right, thanks so much, Alexandra. Appreciate it.

And joining me now is a member of the president-elect Biden's COVID-19 advisory board and the former director of the HHS Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority, Rick Bright.

Rick, great to see you.

Let's start right off the bat with what we just heard, that news from Alexandra about this meeting, this emergency meeting, this vaccine committee is now having on December 1. Is it significant?

DR. RICK BRIGHT, FORMER DIRECTOR, BIOMEDICAL ADVANCED RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY: Well, Pamela, thanks for having me on.

And, as you already indicated, it is good to see the CDC putting this meeting on the schedule. It is a significant advancement in the development and progression towards having a vaccine available. It generally follows the process of a company or manufacturer submitting their data to the FDA for review for potential authorization or approval of that vaccine.

And then, generally, after that vaccine is authorized, the CDC ACIP meeting, as you mentioned, will have meetings to discuss the different parameters of the vaccines, the different populations that it might go in and how to prioritize that vaccine.

What we're seeing now is that the CDC is moving forward and being very proactive and having some of those early discussions before that vaccine is even finished being authorized at the FDA, so they will be ready for that data when it comes to them.

BROWN: But, basically, could we find out on December 1? Just help us understand, like, what could come out of this meeting? Could we find out who is going to get the first round of the vaccines? Or is this just one step in the process of getting there?

BRIGHT: This is one step in the process.

As you can imagine, it's a very complex process, not only making the vaccine and distributing it, but also getting the vaccine to the end user, into the right hospitals, and pharmacies, and then into the right arms of the people who are prioritized.

So, in this meeting, I don't expect there's going to be a vote on a particular vaccine, because the CDC won't have received that authorized vaccine yet from the FDA. But they will have further discussions on how to prioritize that vaccine, primarily because we know that the vaccine will be available in very limited doses.

So, even if they prioritize health care workers and older people in our population, is going to be really important they be a little more granular. So they're going to discuss that granularity on, in health care workers, if I only have so many doses available, how do I prioritize those health care workers first, and make those recommendations to the states?

BROWN: I just want to -- and I just want to be clear here.

In this new reporting we have from my colleague Maggie Fox, we're actually told that advisers to the CDC will be voting on the very first people to get this vaccine. And so that does seem to be -- it seems like we will be getting some more information from there.

And then there's this question, Rick, of, will the Biden advisory board members be given input on this? Will they be involved? Do you know?

BRIGHT: They won't be involved in the actual meeting, but the Biden transition team is meeting now with the Trump administration and experts on the various teams.

And so, as those meetings are discussed -- and some of those meetings are actually held in public domain as well, so we will get that information. But as critical information is becoming available, there is now an ongoing interaction and communication between the Biden advisory board or transition team and the Trump administration officials as well.

BROWN: So, also the big question, of course, is, when is the earliest you think we will see the first vaccines administered?

BRIGHT: I still think it's going to be largely depending on what type of data that the FDA, that advisory panel from the FDA, is reviewing on December 10.

If we really want to be optimistic and assume that they will have some sort of authorization come through from that meeting, then, of course, the vaccine would have to be shipped to the states. And the CDC may work on prioritizing who gets the vaccine in limited quantities on December 1, but, generally, they still will have to make a final decision on the particular vaccine that is authorized by the FDA, probably happening on that same day, December 10 or 11 or 12.

It might be December 12 or 13 before those first people are receiving a dose of vaccine, according to the plans that we have heard so far from the Trump administration.

BROWN: And just to be clear, are you getting the information, is the advisory board getting the information it needs during this transition? Do you feel like you're in a good place now?

BRIGHT: You know, we have started those engagements.

[16:25:00]

And so they're at an initial -- excuse me -- there's an initial meeting that -- a meet-and-greet, so we understand who's on each team and what type of data is available. And, of course, a wish list of data requests are exchanged.

And so those meetings now will occur. And they will be exchanging that information. And so the--

BROWN: When are they going to occur, just to make sure we know?

BRIGHT: I think they're already scheduling. I think they're scheduling some of those meetings across different agencies. I think every department across the government is scheduling those meetings.

And I know that some of the transition team is already sitting down or planning to sit down with the Operation Warp Speed team as well.

BROWN: All right, thank you so much, Rick Bright. Much appreciated.

BRIGHT: Thank you, Pamela.

BROWN: Well, Iran's military vowing revenge after Iran's top nuclear scientist is taken out. Who's behind the assassination?

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