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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Will President Trump Pardon His Family?; U.K. Approves Coronavirus Vaccine. Aired 4-4:30p ET

Aired December 02, 2020 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:18]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

And we begin today with the health lead, a huge moment in the fight against coronavirus.

The United Kingdom has now become the first Western nation to approve a coronavirus vaccine. The first shots in the U.K. will happen early next week. This is the vaccine developed by Pfizer and BioNTech, which trials have shown to be 95 percent effective in preventing coronavirus infections.

And the approval in the U.K. could be good news for the American people as well. This afternoon, Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar said that the approval across the pond should give Americans even more confidence about the vaccine. U.S. approval by the FDA is expected as early as next week as well.

The CEO of BioNTech told CNN that he believes this moment marks the start of the end of the pandemic. But that end, of course, is not yet here.

A White House Coronavirus Task Force report obtained by CNN says that the COVID risk to all Americans right now is -- quote -- "at a historic high." And, yesterday, the United States recorded its second highest one-day death toll since the pandemic began, almost 2,600 deaths in one day just in the United States. That's the worst since April.

As CNN's Nick Watt reports for us now, today, the head of the CDC warns that the next three months will be the most difficult time in history for public health.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A global first. The Brits just authorized the Pfizer/BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine. They might start vaccinating people next week.

UGUR SAHIN, CEO, BIONTECH: We believe that it is really the start of the end of the pandemic.

WATT: December 10, an FDA panel meets. U.S. authorization could come within days, and then?

GOV. GUSTAVE PERNA, U.S. ARMY MATERIEL COMMAND: Distribution to the American people becomes immediate within 24 hours.

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): We expect, if all safety and efficacy approvals are granted, those doses will arrive on December 15.

WATT: Moderna's vaccine is about a week behind. The plan? Vaccinate 20 million Americans in December, 30 million in January, 50 million in February. By March 1:

DR. MONCEF SLAOUI, CHIEF ADVISER, OPERATION WARP SPEED: We will have potentially immunized 100 million people, which is really more or less the size of the significant at-risk population.

WATT: Refrigerators are ready at airports and hospitals across the country. Pfizer's vaccine must be stored at minus-103 degrees Fahrenheit.

First in line for the limited supply, medical personnel and residents of long-term care facilities. A CDC advisory panel just made that call.

DR. AMY COMPTON-PHILLIPS, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: We can do those via mass immunization events. We can't use mass immunization events for every person in the U.S.

WATT: And it's two doses. Not easy. Going to take time. Yes, this could be the start of the end, but it is not the end. Tuesday, 2,597 lives reported lost in this country, the second highest total since all this began.

DR. ROBERT REDFIELD, CDC DIRECTOR: December and January and February are going to be rough times. I actually believe they're going to be the most difficult time in the public health history of this nation.

WATT: Nearly 100,000 Americans are now hospitalized, an all-time high.

DR. SHANNON TAPIA, GERIATRICIAN: We might not show it if we're interacting with you, but it's so hard.

WATT: Some hospitals now maxed out.

DR. JASON MITCHELL, PRESBYTERIAN HEALTHCARE SERVICES ALBUQUERQUE: We really, truly are out of beds. And it's not just the intensive care unit. It's all the medical beds as well.

WATT: From Friday, there's a new overnight curfew in Tucson, Arizona, San Francisco is mulling an end to even outdoor dining.

One Alaskan bistro just celebrated New Year's very early, a socially distanced dinner, before restaurant restrictions kicked back in.

(END VIDEOTAPE) WATT (on-camera): Now, the CDC has just re-upped the guidance it gave us all for Thanksgiving, re-upped for Christmas. They say, stay home, don't travel. Let's see if more people listen this time.

They have also reduced the recommended quarantine time after close contact. It was 14 days. It's now down to 10 or just seven if you get a negative test result. The hope? That more people might comply -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Nick Watt, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

CNN's chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, joins me now.

So, let's start with the good news amidst all this bad news as well. The Pfizer vaccine gets delivered on December 15 in the United States. The Moderna vaccine arrives December 22, and the heads of Operation Warp Speed say 100 million Americans could be vaccinated by February.

[16:05:08]

So, walk us through what happens once these vaccines arrive, Sanjay.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, what's going on right now is that these plans are being formulated at the state level. You got -- they're putting together an essential task list, the governors are, basically saying how many doses of the vaccine they're requesting.

Obviously, there's going to be higher demands than there are supplies right now. But that's -- they're sort of getting prepared to sort of figure out what their needs are going to be. They're also going through workflow programs at institutions such as long-term care facilities and hospitals.

That's where a lot of the vaccine is going to go initially. Try and figure out, how are they going to take it in? How are they going to store it? How will it be distributed at the institutional level?

And then, after that, it's the calendar that you mentioned, Jake. Obviously, the December 15 and December 22 dates are critical. They're predated by, hopefully, authorizations December 10 for the Pfizer one and December 17 for the Moderna one.

But this is all happening very quickly. And I can tell you one thing, Jake, as well. I was on the phone earlier this morning with some folks out in the U.K. I think there's going to be -- we're going to be watching what happens in the U.K. as well. Obviously, they have already authorized this vaccine.

They're going to be a week or so ahead of us. Kind of watch how that distribution goes and see what happens there, if there's any lessons to be learned.

TAPPER: And I guess, do you feel confident distribution is going to go smoothly? Or should we anticipate that there will be some hiccups?

GUPTA: I think we have to anticipate, we have to prepare for some hiccups.

I mean, this is -- this is -- what we're describing here, most people never paid attention to a distribution plan like this, period. But trust the military folks when they say that they have really never done anything quite like this.

Now, they have got a lot of plans in place. So, I think it'll go maybe as smoothly as it can. But even simple things like are there enough syringes in some of these places, do they have enough vials, obviously, the cold storage we talk about?

And also, Jake, there's something else. And that is that, typically, we're used to, in the United States an abundance of things, right, having plenty of whatever it is that we're trying to distribute. And that works well if you try to ease over sudden surges in demand.

That's not happening here. Basically, as soon as things are being manufactured, things will be distributed. When Moncef Slaoui talks about the fact that 100 million people could be vaccinated by the end of January, that counts on the manufacturing processes having no hiccups.

There's all these quality control checks that need to go right. A lot of things have to work perfectly in order for this to actually go as smoothly as we're describing.

TAPPER: And, of course, the U.K. is going first. That country is going to begin vaccinating tens of thousands of people next week.

What are you going to be looking for in their early days of vaccinations, obviously, as a preview of what could or should or should not happen in the U.S.?

GUPTA: I think anything that we didn't anticipate.

I mean, you talk about the cold storage, but how is that then monitored? How are you certain that, when you open up the container, that there wasn't a temperature change? Do those monitors work well?

How do people who get the first dose of the vaccine, how are they then communicated with so that they come back for their second dose? Is that going to be paper? Is that going to be an app? How are you controlling for that and being able to monitor that?

Obviously, if there's any problems at all with the vaccine -- we have a pretty good idea of what the side effect profile is and things like that. But is there anything unusual as you start to -- there's 30,000 or so people who are in these trials, 30,000 to 40,000. And now there's going to be hundreds of thousands, millions and ultimately billions of people.

Do you see things that you didn't see in the trial, but start to manifest in larger populations?

TAPPER: So, CDC advisers yesterday voted for health care workers to be the ones who get the vaccine first.

Who falls under that category?

GUPTA: Well, it's actually a pretty long list. I mean, if you -- we can show you the list of people who this -- who you might suspect, people who are working in hospitals, people who are working in clinics, pharmacies, long-term care facilities.

Health care workers, I would say, though, when you really look at it, it's people who are primarily taking care of COVID patients. Now, that may sound obvious, but health care workers as a group is over 20 million people in this country. That would be the entire first month's supply of vaccine.

But, Jake, for example, I'm a health care worker, but I'm a neurosurgeon. I don't primarily take care of COVID patients. I think most institutions, hospitals, or maybe at the state level, are going to triage even more deeply within these lists of people in the first phase of vaccination.

So that's going to be ongoing. And, again, it may be different state to state or even institution to institution.

TAPPER: The CDC just reduced their recommended quarantine guidelines. It used to be two weeks. Now they're saying seven to 10 days for people who are potentially exposed to COVID.

[16:10:00]

Why? Why reduce that?

GUPTA: Well, first of all, I think that this was a long time coming. Jake. We have been reporting on this for some time.

In the beginning, the question was, between the time of exposure and the time someone would actually be diagnosed, what is the length of time? Fourteen days was sort of the outer stretch. Let's not miss anybody.

But what we're finding is that, in fact, the average time between exposure and someone either testing positive or developing symptoms is closer to five days. So, I think that, for some time, people have said -- have been asking, should we shorten it?

And what you're looking at on the screen now is sort of the end product of that, saying, if you got a negative test, it can be a short as seven days, if you don't have a test at all, 10 days. It makes sense.

And I think, frankly, Jake, subjectively, I think it's going to be easier for people to follow. I mean, this whole COVID fatigue thing, being out for 14 days, your kid has an exposure to someone at school, and now they're out for 14 days, is that necessary? You want to be safe, but you should follow the science.

TAPPER: Sanjay, don't go anywhere. You talked to a participant in one of the vaccine trials. I want to ask you after the break about that person's experience with the vaccine and the potential side effects.

So, everyone, stick around for that, and you too, Sanjay.

Also ahead, the possibility of President Trump's preemptive pardons and why he may be thinking about putting himself and his family tops on that list.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:15:38]

TAPPER: Sticking with our health lead right now.

Operation Warp Speed announced 100 million Americans could be vaccinated by February, and now many are wondering about the potential side effects of any vaccine.

CNN's chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, spoke to one Moderna trial participant who reported symptoms such as fatigue and muscle pain, fever and chills. That's normal. Here's what you should expect.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

YASIR BATALVI, VACCINE TRIAL PARTICIPANT: That evening was rough. I mean, I developed a low-grade fever and fatigue and chills.

GUPTA (voice-over): Yasir Batalvi is describing the side effects that he experienced during Moderna's COVID vaccine trial.

BATALVI: Thirty minutes later, I had a little bit of stiffness, muscle soreness in my left arm. It's like you -- you're punched in the arm, basically.

GUPTA: When you're going through this whole process, Yasir, 22-page consent form, hearing about all the potential side effects, knowing that you're trialing something that we don't have a lot of data on at the time, did you have any second thoughts before taking it?

BATALVI: Honestly, Sanjay, yes.

GUPTA: Every decision we make is risk vs. reward. And when the company announced early data showing over 94 percent efficacy, Yasir was confident it had been worth it.

BATALVI: It doesn't last long. And the potential of folks not getting this vaccine and actually infecting people with COVID, those effects lasts a lot longer. And they can be life or death.

GUPTA: These are early days. And the two vaccine front-runners in this country, Pfizer and Moderna, use a type of genetic sequence called mRNA. It's a technology that has never before been used in humans outside of a clinical trial; mRNA stands for messenger RNA.

It carries the instruction for making whatever protein you want, in this case, the spike protein the virus uses to enter our cells. These vaccines require two doses, one to prime, one to boost, a few weeks apart, so the body mounts what we hope will be a lasting immune response.

One of the biggest concerns now is that the side effects that Yasir is describing, fatigue, muscle pain, fever and chills, will deter people from getting that second dose.

SLAOUI: Maybe 10, 15 percent of the subjects immunized have quite noticeable side effects that usually lasts no more than 24, 36 hours.

GUPTA (on camera): Do you worry about the impact of this vaccine on you long term?

BATALVI: I gave it a lot of thought. And the only thing that gave me some calm was trying to research the actual vaccine, trying to understand how mRNA vaccines work.

GUPTA (voice-over): We understand this for sure. You can't get infected from this vaccine, because the vaccine doesn't actually contain the virus. And even though these are genetic-based vaccines, they don't alter our DNA.

And as far as those side effects go, that may even be a good sign.

DR. PAUL OFFIT, CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL OF PHILADELPHIA: That means your immune response is working for you. You should feel good about that. And it shouldn't really be any difficulty coming back for that second shot, knowing that you're now in a much better position to fight off this awful virus.

GUPTA: For now, Yasir is looking forward to his next appointment, which is on December 10, the exact day the FDA might authorize the first vaccine for COVID-19.

BATALVI: So, I put my name down because I just -- I felt so helpless. It's public service. I have to do it, because I think mass-scale vaccination is really the only realistic way out of the pandemic that we're in.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GUPTA (on-camera): You know, Jake, I got to just say, again, I mean, just how fascinating this technology is.

The type of vaccine this is, the type of therapeutic it uses has never been done before. So, we're seeing, obviously, an important tool for this pandemic, but I think an important tool for medicine. It's changing medical innovation.

And we should not conflate, the point of this piece, side effects and safety. People can have side effects and it still be a very safe vaccine.

TAPPER: And these vaccines need to be taken in two doses, these initial two vaccines. Do you have any concerns that, if people experience side effects after

the first dose, they feel fatigue, they feel feverish, they might not go back for that crucial second dose?

GUPTA: It's possible.

It was interesting talking to Yasir. He had the most side effects after the second dose. But I asked him, I said, had you had those side effects for the first dose, would it have changed your mind?

[16:20:04]

And he's a young guy. He's healthy. He said, yes, it was pretty significant. He still would have gone back. We then went back and looked at the trial results and found that 98 percent, Jake, at least within the clinical trial, of people did come back for their second dose.

Now, that's part of a trial. There's obviously a lot of follow-up. So I'm worried a bit. But, so far, the data has suggested that people are going to be pretty diligent about this.

TAPPER: Yes.

And it's not as if, for regular flu shots, sometimes, people don't experience side effects and feel a little bit sick. But it fends off the much worse flu.

This is, of course, just one person's experience. Might there be other side effects we don't know about yet?

GUPTA: I mean, it's fascinating, Jake.

We do these trials on tens of thousands of people, and then ultimately billions of people are going to take this. There's going to be a very heterogeneous mix of people around the world that are going to take this. Might there be other side effects? Possibly.

What we know is that most significant adverse effects occur within the first two months. That's why two months of safety data was requested. But long-term side effects, I mean, the only way -- to be honest, the only way you can really know that is with the passage of time.

So, we sit here and talk a year from now and you say, well, what is the year worth of side effects profile? I may have a different answer for you. But it's very encouraging that the side effect profile has been so low in that time period when they usually mostly occur.

TAPPER: Sanjay Gupta, thank you so much. Appreciate it, as always.

And you can join Sanjay, along with Anderson Cooper, for a brand-new coronavirus town hall all about the vaccines. That will be Friday night, Friday night, at 9:00 Eastern only here on CNN.

The president is discussing preemptive pardons for his adult children. Now, why might they need that? Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:26:22]

TAPPER: In our politics lead now: A source tells CNN that President Trump, the outgoing president, is discussing preemptive pardons for people close to him. That could include his three eldest children, Don Jr., Ivana and Eric -- Ivanka and Eric, his son-in-law, Jared Kushner, and his personal attorney Rudy Giuliani, none of whom as of this afternoon have been even charged with, much less convicted of any crime.

Those are, of course, private conversations. Publicly, President Trump continues to focus on making his lasting legacy that of perhaps the sorest loser in American political history, not only pushing deranged conspiracy theories and -- on Twitter and in a new White House video, but stepping over basic bounds of human decency, after a top elections official in Georgia yesterday begged the president and senators to join him in denouncing death threats and threats of violence against election workers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GABRIEL STERLING, GEORGIA VOTING SYSTEM IMPLEMENTATION MANAGER: This is the backbone of democracy. And all of you who have not said a damn word are complicit in this.

Stop inspiring people to commit potential acts of violence. Someone's going to get hurt, someone's going to get shot, someone's going to get killed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: President Trump's response to that, to that plea? He posted the very same lies about the election and the attacks on Georgia Republican elected officials that are feeding these very death threats, a reprehensible response, matched only by the cowardice of most Republicans on Capitol Hill.

Kaitlan Collins reports now this is all unfolding as the president is mulling over his political future and the potential legal exposure of those around him.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With his time in office coming to a close, President Trump has discussed potentially pardoning three of his children, his son-in-law and his attorney Rudy Giuliani.

While their potential criminal exposure is unclear, sources tell CNN Trump has talked about pardoning those around him preemptively because he's concerned prosecutors will target them once he's out of office. KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I have heard no

mention of any pardons in any conversations I have had in the White House, other than the pardon of Lieutenant General Michael Flynn.

COLLINS: Other allies are encouraging Trump to not only pardon his family, but himself.

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS: My question is, why wouldn't he just pardon himself and his family on the way out the door? Because I think he would be right to do so, because these people are nuts.

COLLINS: The president hasn't commented, but he has dismissed a newly revealed Justice Department investigation into a potential bribery- for-pardon scheme as -- quote -- "fake news."

The investigation was confirmed by the Justice Department when a judge unsealed court documents last night, which are heavily redacted and reveal no names. No one has been publicly charged to date, and a Justice Department official said no government official was or is the subject of this investigation.

Although Attorney General Bill Barr was at the White House for over two hours yesterday, the press secretary couldn't say whether he met with Trump after disputing his election fraud claims or whether the president has confidence in him.

QUESTION: Does he still have confidence in Bill Barr?

MCENANY: The president, if he has any personnel announcements, you will be the first to know it.

COLLINS: Another official whose standing with Trump is in question is the FDA commissioner, Stephen Hahn, who was summoned to the White House again today for a second meeting with the chief of staff, Mark Meadows, after Trump complained the FDA wasn't moving fast enough on emergency vaccine approval.

The president made no mention of Hahn as he greeted his guests at a White House Christmas party last night, where he teased another presidential run.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's been an amazing years. We're trying to do another four yours. Otherwise, I will see you in four years.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS (on-camera): And, Jake, we have not seen President Trump today.

[16:30:00]