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The Lead with Jake Tapper

One-on-One with Ousted DHS Official Who Rebuked Trump; New Key Model Predicts 539,000 U.S. COVID Deaths by April; Tomorrow Trump to Rally in Georgia Ahead of Senate Runoffs. Aired 4:30-5p ET

Aired December 04, 2020 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:30:01]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: He later said he was being sarcastic. Do you believe him that he was being sarcastic or do you think he's just saying that to avoid any sort of legal action or lawsuit? You don't know?

CHRIS KREBS, FORMER DIRECTOR, CYBERSECURITY AND INFRASTRUCTURE SECURITY AGENCY: I mean, I don't know but I'll tell you what? I think it's a shame that election officials -- you talked about Al Schmidt, you talked about Secretary Raffensperger, you talked about all the other secretaries of states and election records (ph), the IT contractors in Georgia, they are getting death threats online, social media, phone calls, text messages, mail.

This is -- these are public servants. These are the heroes out there, the people out there doing the work supporting democracy, they are getting death threats for that?

It doesn't make any sense to me. I think it's ultimately corrosive. I think we are going to have a hard time recruiting election workers going forward, and if we don't have election workers, we are going to have a hard time doing elections.

TAPPER: You said you have a team of lawyers and you're planning to take advantage of our nation's laws when it comes to that threat. What are they doing?

KREBS: Well, you know, we're looking and evaluating all of the options available to us, and whether it's state or federal, and we'll talk in court and they're -- it's a great crew.

TAPPER: So you are going to take legal action?

KREBS: We are taking a look at our options.

TAPPER: A recent poll says that 3 out of 4 Trump voters falsely, erroneously, wrongly believe that Joe Biden only won the election because of voter fraud.

Congressman Jim Jordan, Republican of Ohio, one of President Trump's most ardent supporters, he tweeted this morning, take a look. Over 50 million Americans think this election was stolen. That's more

than one third of that electorate. For that reason alone, we owe it to the country to investigate election integrity, unquote.

What's your message to Congressman Jordan?

KREBS: I don't know what that means necessarily to investigate election integrity, but I'll tell you this -- Attorney General Barr issued a statement earlier this week that he wasn't aware of any fraud at the scale that would flip the outcome of this vote.

Again, you know, listen to the trusted sources. Listen to the election officials out there. They think it was a pretty clean election. Democracy can be messy sometimes but this was -- particularly with the challenges we faced with COVID, and the expansion of mail-in ballots, it went about as well as you could expect.

TAPPER: As somebody who spent so much time and headed, you know, a section of a government agency to make sure that the election was as clean as it was, and by all credible accounts, it was. Yes, there is always like an incident here or there. You know, you have millions of people vote, something is going to happen.

But, generally speaking, this was a very clean, very efficient election. When you hear just the sheer nuttery coming out of the mouths of some of these people, when -- they're talking about Hugo Chavez and software that flips votes, communist money, what goes through your head, especially when it comes from not just randos like Lin Wood or whatever, but the president or the press secretary of the White House, what does it feel like?

KREBS: So, look, if you're going to make these claims of this magnitude, prove it. And I'm yet to see a case definitively and conclusively prove that there was any sort of meddling along the lines and I hate that word meddling. But still, you know, I haven't seen it.

In the meantime, it's not my job. It wasn't our job at CISA to disprove every single claim. What we were trying to do is get information out there to the American voter on how the system works and we got to continue doing that. That's the civics education piece we got to promote that. It's just -- it's about transparency and elections.

TAPPER: I want to give you an opportunity -- I know you can't respond to every insane claim but this one is from President Trump and -- because it's so easily disproven I want to give you a chance to explain. He said -- he's talking about the runoffs.

The best way to ensure Loeffler or Perdue victory is to allow signature checks in the presidential race, which will insure Georgia presidential win, very few votes are needed, many will be found. Spirits will soar and everyone will rush out and vote. And then he tagged the governor.

Give us a fact check of that. KREBS: Well, in fact, in Georgia, prior to the 2020 election, they

instituted enhanced signature check measures, working alongside the lead state law enforcement agency, the Georgia Bureau of Investigation. So they actually improved signature check capabilities for the 2020 election.

And, again, if you go talk to Secretary Raffensperger, they ran a clean election in Georgia.

TAPPER: You have said that it was an honor to work for DHS and you're exploring options. Have you had any conversations with the Biden/Harris transition team about coming back and doing the job you did by, again, by all accounts, all credible accounts, well?

KREBS: Well, you know, I've got friends certainly are in the transition team but I haven't had any formal conversations with the transition team about coming back in. I think it's up to them to decide the team they want. You know, if Vice President or President- elect Biden asked me to join, anytime -- I've said this before, but anytime the leader of the free world asks you to be a part of the team, you've got to -- you've got to take a serious look at it.

[16:35:06]

But, you know, I've got -- I think I'll have a lot of options going forward and I'm excited about the next phase of my life.

TAPPER: You got emotional yesterday in a different interview when talking about the fact that you didn't get a chance to say good-bye to your team. Have you gotten a chance to say good-bye? Are you taking one after January 20th if given the opportunity?

KREBS: Well, certainly, if given the opportunity to come back and speak to the team, I would -- I'd jump at the opportunity. But, again, they are going through a transition phase right now. They need the room and the space to be able to work through that. I don't want to come in and complicate any of that.

But I tell you what, CISA was an agency in the federal government the majority of Americans didn't know about prior to the election. Now whether we are a household name or whatever, I'm just so proud of the work that they did, that we did. We put country over party.

There's -- it's just a bunch of heroes and a bunch of patriots in there that upheld and defended the Constitution.

TAPPER: Well, you're a patriot and you stood up for the truth, you stood up for the facts and, by all accounts, did an incredible job. Democrats and Republicans both on Capitol Hill heralded you today of that unfortunate tweet.

It's good to see you, Chris. Thanks so much for being here and thanks for what you did for United States. Appreciate it.

KREBS: Thank you. TAPPER: Former CISA director.

The worst of the pandemic is the other big story today. The one practice that could keep more people alive until we get a vaccine.

And vice president-elect's new warning just moments ago about a lack of planning to get that vaccine distributed and in your arm. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:40:08]

TAPPER: In our health lead today, a frightening new model predicting almost 539,000 people in the United States will have died of coronavirus by April. That's less than five months away. Health experts are trying to sound the alarm of this worst-case scenario in the months ahead.

And as CNN's Nick Watt reports, we are frankly already heading in that direction.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This week, COVID- 19 is the leading cause of death in America, and it's going to get worse.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE FOR ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: We have not yet seen the post-thanksgiving peak.

WATT: By the spring? More than half a million Americans could be dead.

DR. CARLOS DEL RIO, EXECUTIVE ASSOCIATION DEAN, EMORY UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE AT GRADY HEALTH SYSTEM: And while we're all excited about the vaccine, the reality, as the model says, the vaccine probably by April 1st will only save about 10,000 or up to 11,000 deaths.

WATT: Thursday was the worst day of this pandemic, so far.

A record number of new cases, a record number of Americans in the hospital and 2,879 deaths. The most lives lost in a single day? One gone every 30 seconds.

MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Help is on the way. We can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

WATT: A hint to how the next administration will handle this?

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT: I'm going to ask the public 100 days to mask. Just 100 days to mask. Not forever, 100 days and I think we will see a significant reduction.

WATT: Masking alone could save tens of thousands of lives. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's cheap and it doesn't shut down the economy.

Shutdowns or lockdowns are really not on the table, at least not from the Biden/Harris team.

WATT: And Fauci will be on that team, chief medical adviser.

FAUCI: I said yes right on the spot.

WATT: In the meantime, new national jobs numbers suggest the economic recovery is stalling.

PACO VELEZ, PRESIDENT, CEO, FEEDING SOUTH FLORIDA: Today, we have over a thousand families coming through this line to take this box home and provide it to their families. Unfortunately, this is the last week of this coronavirus food assistance program.

WATT: And in many places, public school enrollment is down, distance learning just not the same.

ELIZABETH NEWHART, PARENT: They were, you know, having tantrums.

WATT: So the Newharts of Illinois just went private.

NEWHART: We had to do a lot of number crunching but we felt like it was something that we had to do.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WATT (on camera): And this just in from the San Francisco Bay Area. They are going into another stay-at-home order that is going to last through January 4th.

Now, yesterday, Governor Newsom out here said that any region where ICU capacity was reaching critical level has to go in a stay-at-home. In San Francisco, the word is, why wait? We know the numbers are going to get worse so let's just do it now. The rest of the state likely will not be far behind -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Nick Watt, thank you so much.

Just moments ago, President-elect Biden said he has seen, quote, no detailed plan for getting vaccines from vials into our arms. We are also just learning that Health and Human Services has launched an ad campaign promoting the idea of getting vaccinated.

CNN's Kristen Holmes joins me now.

Kristen, what's this national campaign going to look like?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, it's being described, Jake, as a major push across social and digital to educate people about the vaccine but also to convince them that it's safe because of the politics around it.

Now, all we have seen so far, this is a very small portion, an ad buy on YouTube that features Dr. Fauci, a PSA with Fauci talking about how the vaccine is made and also the virus, itself. This is something very important to keep in mind. We will probably see more of Dr. Fauci as they try to convince people that the vaccine is, in fact, safe. As we know he is one of the most trusted officials in the country.

TAPPER: What's the timeline looking like right now?

[16:45:00]

And when do we expect to see shots able to go into arms?

HOLMES: Well, it's a complicated question because it depends whose arm you're talking about. If you're talking about health care workers, that could happen as early as ten days from now.

Let's look at the calendar that we know. We know that on December 10th, the FDA will meet to consider authorizing the Pfizer vaccine and we are hearing that that will happen pretty quickly. December 15th, the first shipments of the Pfizer vaccine, will be delivered. And then you have the next round of the Moderna, the meeting for that with the FDA and then the shipments of the Moderna vaccine being delivered on December 22nd here.

But we have to keep something in mind. These are all going to those essential health care workers. There has not been enough of a national campaign here to explain to people that the members of the public are not getting it now. And here's a little bit more dive into that. In Alabama, for example, they are only getting about 40,000 doses. The number of essential health care workers they have is over 300,000.

So, all of those people are going to be in line before you get to the members of the public. So, something really health experts are stressing that the American public realize.

TAPPER: All right. Kristen Holmes, thanks so much for that reporting. We appreciate it.

Coming up next, the outgoing president unloading about a Republican governor as some Republicans are afraid about his visit to their state tomorrow.

Stay with us.

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[16:50:46]

TAPPER: In the politics lead today, Georgia Republicans say that they are concerned about President Trump's planned rally tomorrow in Georgia. They worry that it could actually discourage Republican voter turnout. Two critical runoff Senate elections will determine if Republicans or Democrats control the Senate and the prospect for much of President-elect Biden's agenda.

I want to bring in CNN's Jeremy Diamond.

And, Jeremy, you got some breaking news on a phone call where President Trump attacked the Republican governor of Georgia.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Jake. Two sources telling my colleague Kaitlan Collins that President Trump blasted Georgia Republican Governor Brian Kemp as a moron and a nut job during a recent phone call. He also referred to one of the Georgia Republican senators who he is going to be campaigning for tomorrow, questioning why she couldn't win her race outright on Election Day to avoid a runoff.

And it's because of these comments that my sources tell me that Republicans are on edge ahead of the president's visit tomorrow, concerned that more of these kind of attacks could do more harm than good.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DIAMOND (voice-over): With Georgia's special election looming, President Trump and vice president pence both heading South to defend Republican Senate majority. Pence is there now. Trump going tomorrow.

But after weeks spent attacking the state's November election as fraudulent.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Listen, you have a fraudulent system.

DIAMOND: And railing against Republican officials in charge.

TRUMP: He is an enemy of the people, the secretary of state.

The governor has done nothing. He's done absolutely nothing. I'm ashamed that I endorsed him.

DIAMOND: Trump's Saturday visit has Republicans on edge. Worried that another round of attacks on Georgia's election system could depress turnout among the Trump faithful. One Trump adviser telling CNN it's not helpful if he goes down there and attacks the governor for an hour and a half. But if he says the few things that we need him to say, it would be helpful.

Trump stuck to those attacks this week.

LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS HOST: He's kind of mad at you. He's tore (ph) at you, right?

GOV. BRIAN KEMP (R-GA): Well, I know, but I'm frustrated like he is. We've had a few battles but nobody worked harder for Donald Trump before November 3rd.

DIAMOND: While Trump refuses to accept President-elect Biden's victory, one of the candidates he is campaigning for tacitly acknowledged reality, Senator David Perdue telling members of the Republican Jewish Coalition, quote, we know what this change of command at the top will mean with our foreign relations. If we can keep the majority in the Senate, we can at least be a buffer on some of the things the Biden camp has been talking about. Meanwhile, Trump and his political operation raised over $207 million

since the election after flooding supporters with 400 plus fund- raising emails falsely claiming the election was rigged. Those fund- raising appeals ongoing even as Biden's margin of victory rose to 7 million in the popular vote.

Biden telling CNN, he still hopes Trump will attend his inauguration for the sake of democracy.

BIDEN: Important only in one sense. Not important in a personal sense. Important in the sense that we are able to demonstrate at the end of this chaos that he's created that there is peaceful transfer of power with the competing parties standing there shaking hands and moving on.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DIAMOND (on camera): And, Jake, as for those comments by Senator David Perdue, a Perdue spokesman, John Burke, says that Perdue totally supports the president and his efforts as it relates to the 2020 election. That is the kind of cleanup that Republicans have to do these days when they simply acknowledge reality -- Jake.

TAPPER: Just madness! Absolutely madness.

Jeremy Diamond, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

The dire warnings from top health officials, hospitals, and CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta as the United States hits our worst days of the pandemic.

Stay with us.

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[16:59:12]

TAPPER: Coronavirus is the leading cause of death in the United States this week. Almost 3,000 Americans died just yesterday from it, each loss leaving countless of Americans grieving.

Here is just one story. Matthew Law was a healthy 35-year-old. He was a father of five and an army veteran. He served two tours in Iraq. He and his wife Jennifer were high school sweethearts. She remembers his infectious laugh.

Matthew Law was rushed to the hospital and he died less than a day later. Since it happened so quickly, his five kids were not able to say good-bye to their dad. May his memory be a blessing.

This Sunday on "STATE OF THE UNION," I'll speak with the chief of Operation Warp Speed, Moncef Slaoui, along with Senator Mark Warner, Georgia Lieutenant Governor Geoff Duncan and Congresswoman Karen Bass, who chairs the Congressional Black Caucus. That's Sunday morning at 9:00 Eastern, and again on noon, only on CNN.

Our coverage on CNN continues right now. I'll see you Sunday morning.