Return to Transcripts main page

The Lead with Jake Tapper

Biden Addresses Nashville Bombing, Rebuilding International Relations; Interview With Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D-MN); Trump Keeps Focus on Overturning Election Results. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired December 28, 2020 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00]

M.J. LEE, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: So, these are some of the big, broad themes that we have heard over and over again from the president-elect and that we expect him to talk about in the coming weeks as well.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: We will be listening for it, as will you.

M.J. Lee. Good to see you there. Thank you.

And thank you all so much for being with me. I'm Brooke Baldwin. See you back here tomorrow.

"THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER" starts now.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: And welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

We start today with our politics lead and millions of Americans paying the price for President Trump's erratic and destructive behavior. The president finally gave in and signed the coronavirus relief and government funding bills last night, after holding them hostage for five days, demanding massive changes and allowing unemployment benefits to lapse for millions of people laid off during the coronavirus pandemic.

He got none of the changes he was demanding at the 11th hour, and he ended up signing the bill anyway. The president has shown even less interest in marshaling the forces of the federal government to meet the moment and get this coronavirus under control, as the U.S. hits another grim milestone, with December the deadliest month since the pandemic began for the United States.

In fact, the only thing President Trump has seemed to really be motivated to do is to keep up his efforts at this nonviolent coup to overturn the election he clearly lost more than seven weeks ago.

After failing at the ballot box and with election boards, after having legal cases laughed out of courts and dismissed with prejudice all over the country, after unsuccessfully pushing state legislatures to send different electors to the Electoral College, the president's latest wild plan that will fail is to pressure Congress to overturn the election, which Congress will not do.

He's doing this while rallying supporters of his to come to D.C. to protest, essentially, democracy.

CNN's Boris Sanchez joins me now live from West Palm Beach, Florida, near where the president is staying.

Boris, is there any strategy at all to any of these actions?

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Jake, it's hard to say.

Even senior officials at the White House are frustrated with the president's actions, making a series of demands, stalling on helping millions of Americans who are already struggling, actually making the situation worse for them, before ultimately caving, with absolutely nothing to show for it.

The $2,000 stimulus checks for Americans, Republicans are apparently not getting behind that. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell putting out a statement last night after President Trump signed the stimulus package into law, thanking the president for that, but not mentioning any of his demands, not mentioning a review of Section 230, liability for social media companies, or that request from the White House to focus on election fraud, this allegation that the election was stolen from him, something that the president has presented no evidence for.

And on top of that, there is the cover of one of the president's hometown papers, "The New York Post," a paper that endorsed President Trump, reliably conservative, calling on him to stop the insanity, the first line saying that the president should stop this dark charade and stop cheering on what they call an undemocratic coup -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Boris Sanchez traveling near the president, thank you so much.

On Capitol Hill, we are just two hours away from an expected vote in the House of Representatives to override President Trump's veto of the National Defense Authorization Act.

The bill passed with bipartisan support, and has for 59 years straight. It funds The military. This legislation includes pay raises for the troops. The president did not like that the bill also required that military installations currently named after Confederate generals would eventually change their names.

And, also, he didn't like that the bill doesn't repeal a law that Boris just referred to, the one that protects some social media companies such as Twitter from being legally liable for what users post.

Now, some House Republicans say they will not vote to override the president's veto, even though they supported the defense bill earlier this month. But House Democrats who control that chamber remain confident that they have the votes they need to override the president's veto. It requires a two-thirds supermajority to do so.

CNN's Phil Mattingly joins me now.

And, Phil, what are you hearing at the House? Do the Democrats have the votes to override the president's veto? And what about the Republican-controlled Senate?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jake, aides I'm talking to in both parties believe the votes will be there to hit that two-thirds threshold, the actual number still a little bit to be determined. It's based on attendance, two-thirds of those who are in -- who are present for that vote, but they believe they will get there.

I think you need to take a step back, though, and you make a great point. This would be the 60th year this bill would be passed. It's almost always bipartisan. It is very rarely ever a close vote, if it's ever been a close vote, not that I can actually recall.

And you just look at the first vote, Jake. It was 335 to 78. I think what this all underscores is this moment that Republicans are in, particularly in the House, where they spent the better part of the last four years being completely loyal to President Trump, doing whatever he said.

[15:05:00]

You noted some Republicans, including House Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy, who voted for the bill, say they will not vote to try and override the veto now.

Steve Scalise, who is a strong defense Republican as well, the number two in the House Republican Conference, voted against the bill to begin with because of the president's concerns. So, how Republicans vote -- while they believe they will have the votes to override the veto, how they vote will be extremely interesting to watch.

Mac Thornberry, the top Republican on the House Armed Services Committee, sending a message to his colleagues, I'm told, that said your decision should be based on what's actually in the bill, rather than distortions or misrepresentations.

While he didn't mention the president specifically in that note to his colleagues, it was very clear who he was talking to, based on what the president has said about this piece of legislation.

And, Jake, finally, you asked about the Senate. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell has made no bones about it. The Senate will override the president's veto on the National Defense Authorization Act, if they get the chance. First, the House has to act. And they will in a couple hours -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Phil Mattingly on Capitol Hill, thanks so much.

Joining me now to discuss all this and more is Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota.

Senator Klobuchar, thanks for joining us.

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN): Thanks, Jake.

TAPPER: So, I want to ask you about one of your new colleagues, Republican senator-elect Tommy Tuberville. He's left the door open to maybe joining some House Republicans in this last-ditch effort to overturn the free and fair democratic election results when Congress needs to finalize the vote next week, January 6.

Top Republicans in the Senate, they want to avoid the spectacle, because it would require so many Republicans to then vote against President Trump by upholding the election results.

You are the ranking Democrat on the Senate Rules Committee. What are you expecting to happen?

KLOBUCHAR: Well, first of all, this is crazy, Jake, we have had now over 80 judges reject these claims that the president is making, including a bunch of judges appointed by President Trump and other Republican presidents.

We have the leaders in the Republican Party in the U.S. Senate and governors across the country congratulating Joe Biden on his victory. So, let's remember that.

What this is, it's a law that's been on the books for hundreds of years, only twice used in history, where the houses actually had to go and vote. And, yes, you are correct. If a House member is joined by a senator, then we have to vote on the state on which the objection was made.

And the Senate votes, the House votes. And there is no reason to believe that this -- the results would be changed in any way, given the position of Senate Republicans, given the fact that Speaker Pelosi has a majority.

But, nevertheless, Donald Trump continues to drag us through this, including this ominous note on Twitter yesterday, where he said, see you on January 6. I think most people thought, what's that about? I thought, this is going to be a long day.

TAPPER: And, I mean, I think that what that's in reference to is, there are a bunch of President Trump supporters who are coming to Washington, D.C., rallied in part by him, to protest. They call it Stop the Steal.

Obviously, your election was not stolen. This is all just a lie and a myriad of conspiracy theories.

But what do you make of this? And what are your concerns? Because I have to say, there are millions of Americans who believe these lies. They have been fed lies by President Trump and his most loyal supporters in the House and Senate and MAGA media, lies that the election was stolen. They're upset. They believe that the election was stolen.

It was not. Their information sources are wanting, but they are upset, and they're coming to Washington. Are you worried?

KLOBUCHAR: I'm not worried, because I believe our democracy will prevail.

People have a right to peacefully protest. We all know that. I think we expected some of this. Did I expect the president to be leading the charge, when he should be engaged in a peaceful transition of power? I guess we have gotten to the point where nothing is out of bounds for this president.

I think where the American people are, though, you saw it in the votes for Joe Biden, the millions and millions of people, most votes ever cast for a president of the United States. And you see it now in Republican leadership across the country, where a number of them slowly, but surely, not fast enough for me, but they have come to the point where they have congratulated the president-elect on his victory.

That's where we are, Jake. That's the truth. And I think, as more and more people are seeing a president, while we are heading into a Georgia Senate race where there are so many military bases, so many patriotic Americans that serve our country, that this president literally rejected a strongly bipartisan defense act, that's on him. That's on their party.

And that's why, of course, the House is going to override that veto. And you will see the same thing happen in the Senate. But, again, this is the president of the Republican Party. And I think one way for the people in this country to really push back is in those Georgia Senate races, which are going to be held the day before we have this Electoral College, what the president is turned trying to turn into a spectacle, but I believe is something that happens every four years and is part of the peaceful transition of power.

[15:10:13]

TAPPER: Well, you just laid out there an optimistic view of the Republican Party.

But I have to say, a majority -- a majority of House Republicans, a majority of them, signed their names to that crazy Texas attorney general lawsuit that had lies and conspiracy theories and nonsense and called for the -- four states to be stripped of their electoral votes.

It was -- it would disenfranchise 20 million voters. That's a majority of House Republicans, how many Senate Republicans do you think have been infected with this bizarre view of the Republican Party and what conservatism means, in other words, loyalty to Trump above all else?

KLOBUCHAR: Well, they all have.

I mean, with the exception of, I believe, one, they were supporting him in this election. But the point I was trying to make here, Jake, is that we even have people who supported him in the election who are leaders now acknowledging that these claims on the election, these claims that something was wrong with the election, when you have Republican governors and Republican secretary of states all across the country certifying the result, are even a step too far to them, despite what the House Republicans did.

And I just think it's an important point to make, Jake, because, in the end, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris are going to be inaugurated, and you're going to have leadership from both parties standing behind them. And I think that is really, really important for our country to get through this pandemic and to start actually getting things done for the American people.

And it's Joe Biden that, when he was declared the victor for the first of many times in the last few months, said that we must end this grim era of demonization in our politics. He reached out to President Trump's voters and said, look, I know it's not easy to lose an election, but I'm going to give you a chance if you give me a chance.

We have no choice but to start his presidency with those views. And I will not let President Trump, with all of this craziness, spoil that, because our country has a moment where we can start afresh with our democracy.

TAPPER: Do you -- oh, Joe Biden is walking right -- out right now. We're going to listen to that.

Thank you, senator Klobuchar. Let's listen to president-elect Biden--

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT: Before I begin, I want to say a few words, a few brief words, about the explosion that took place Friday in Nashville, Tennessee.

Federal, state and local law enforcement working around the clock to gain more information on motive and intent. This bombing was a reminder of the destructive power that an individual or a small group can muster and the need for continuing vigilance across the board.

I want to thank the police department in Nashville, particularly those five police officers who worked so quickly to evacuate the area before the explosion occurred, risking their own lives, and for all the firefighters and first responders who jumped into action early on that Christmas morning, last Christmas morning.

Their bravery and coolheadedness likely saved lives and prevented a worse outcome, and we are eternally grateful to that law enforcement agency.

And I know the hearts of all Americans are with the people of Nashville as they rebuild and recover from this traumatic event.

Now Vice President Harris and I, along with our nominees to lead the national security institutions, have just been briefed by some of the professionals who have been conducting agency reviews as a part of our transition. It's a longstanding part of the orderly transition of power in

American democracy. We welcomed teams from the incoming Trump/Pence administration four years ago, gave them access to all that we had.

And over the past few weeks, teams of genuine policy and management experts, many of them of previous government experience, who have gone into agencies across the government to conduct interviews of personnel to gather information, and to assess the state and federal government--

(COUGHING)

BIDEN: Excuse me -- that we will shortly inherit.

These teams worked under incredibly difficult circumstances, taking COVID-19 precautions and waiting weeks for the ascertainment, meaning that so they could go in and be cleared to go in.

But they have done an outstanding job. For some agencies, our teams received exemplary cooperation from the career staff in those agencies. From others, most notably the Department of Defense, we encountered obstruction from the political leadership of that department.

And the truth is, many of the agencies that are critical to our security have incurred enormous damage. Many of them have been hollowed out in personnel, capacity and in morale, in the policy processes that have atrophied or have been sidelined, in the despair of our alliances and the disrepair of those alliances, in our absence from key institutions that matter to the welfare of the American people, and in general disengagement from the world.

[15:15:31]

And all of it makes it harder for our government to protect the American people, to defend our vital interests in a world where threats are constantly evolving and our adversaries are constantly adapting.

Rebuilding the full set of our instruments of foreign policy and national security is a key challenge that the vice president-elect Harris and I will face upon taking office, starting with our diplomacy.

Today, we heard from the leaders of the state and USAID agency review teams about the critical investment we are going to need to make in our diplomacy, in our development efforts and in rebuilding our alliances, to close the ranks with our partners and bring to bear the full benefits of our shared strength for the American people.

When we consider the most daunting threats of our time, we know that meeting them requires American engagement and American leadership, but also that none of them can be solved by America acting alone.

Take climate change, for example. The United States accounts for less than 15 percent of the global carbon emissions. But without clear, coordinated and a committed approach from the other 85 percent of the carbon emitters, the world will continue to warm, storms will continue to worsen, climate change will continue to threaten the lives and livelihoods and public health and economics of our existence and our -- literally, the very existence of our planet.

We have learned so painfully this year the cost of being unprepared for a pandemic that leaps borders and circles the globe. If going to -- if we're not investing with our partners around the world to strengthen the health systems everywhere, we're undermining our ability to permanently defeat COVID-19 and we're leaving ourselves vulnerable to the next deadly epidemic.

And, as we compete with China to hold Chinese government accountable for its trade abuses, technology, human rights, and other fronts, our position was much stronger, when we build coalitions of like-minded partners and allies that make common cause with us, in defense of our shared interests and our shared values.

We make up only 25 percent -- almost 25 percent of the entire economy of the world. But, together with our democratic partners, we more than double our economic leverage.

On any issue that matters to the U.S. and China relationship, from pursuing a foreign policy for the middle class, including a trade and economic agenda that produces and protects American workers or intellectual prosperity and the environment, to ensuring security and prosperity in the Indo-Pacific region, to championing human rights, we're stronger and more effective when we're flanked by nations that share our vision in the future of our world.

That's how we multiply the impact of our efforts and make those efforts more sustainable. That's the power of smart, effective American leadership. But, right now, there's an enormous vacuum. We're going to have to regain the trust and confidence of a world that has begun to find ways to work around us or work without us.

We also heard from key leaders of our intelligence and defense review teams, including Stephanie O'Sullivan, former principal deputy director of the national intelligence, and retired Army Lieutenant General Karen Gibson.

We talked about the different strategic challenges we're going to face from both Russia and China and the reforms we must make to put ourselves in the strongest possible position to meet those challenges.

That includes modernizing our defense priorities to better deter aggression in the future, rather than continue -- rather than continuing to overinvest in legacy systems designed to address threats of the past. We have to be able to innovate, to reimagine our defenses against growing threats in new realms like cyberspace.

We're still learning about the extent of the SolarWinds hack and the vulnerabilities that have been exposed. As I said last week, this attack constitutes a grave risk to our national security. We need to close the gap between where our capabilities are now and where they need to be to better deter, detect, disrupt and respond to those sorts of intrusions in the future.

[15:20:18]

This is an area Republicans and Democrats are in agreement. And we should be able to work on a bipartisan basis to better secure the American people against malign cyber-actors.

And, right now, as our nation is in a period of transition, we need to make sure that nothing is lost in the handoff between administrations. My team needs a clear picture of our force posture around the world and our operations to deter our enemies.

We need full visibility into the budget planning under way at the Defense Department and other agencies in order to avoid any window of confusion or catchup that our adversaries may try to exploit.

But, as I said from the beginning, we have encountered roadblocks from the political leadership at the Department of Defense and the Office of Management and Budget. Right now, we just aren't getting all the information that we need for the ongoing, outgoing and -- from the outgoing administration in key national security areas.

It's nothing short, in my view, of irresponsibility.

Finally, we spoke about the day one challenge that we're going to need to address immediately, drawing on the skill set of the Department of Homeland Security and the Federal Emergency Management Agency.

We were briefed on the steps needed to clean up the humanitarian disaster that the Trump administration has systematically created on our southern border. We will institute humane and orderly responses. That means rebuilding the capacity we need to safely and quickly process asylum seekers, without creating near-term crisis in the midst of this deadly pandemic.

These are hard issues. And the current administration has made them much harder by working to erode our capacity. It's going to take time to rebuild that capacity. We're going to work purposefully, diligently and responsibly to roll back Trump's restrictions starting on day one.

But it is not as simple as throwing a switch to turn everything back on, especially amid a pandemic. We will have to have a process to ensure everyone's health and safety, including the safety of asylum seekers hoping for a new start in the United States free of violence and persecution.

Of course, an essential part of this will be managing the safe, equitable, and efficient distribution of vaccinations to as many Americans as possible as quickly as possible.

FEMA has an enormous part to play in this. And we heard from the former FEMA Director Craig Fugate today. Want to make sure that our administration is poised to make full use of FEMA's domestic reach and capacity in managing our COVID response.

And finally, from every briefer, I was heartened, I was literally heartened to hear about the incredible strength we will be inheriting in the career professionals and working people across these agencies. They never stopped doing their jobs and continue to serve our country day in and day out to keep their fellow Americans safe, just as they have always done.

These agencies are filled with patriots who have earned our respect and who should never be treated as political footballs. I'm looking forward to the honor of working with them again, to asking for their advice and inputs, to help shape the best possible policies for all Americans.

And I want to thank the incredible folks who have served on these agency review teams as part of this transition. They have dedicated their time and energy, their vital experience and expertise to help ensure Vice President Harris and I are ready to hit the ground running.

And we look forward to the start of a new year, fresh with hope and possibilities for better days to come, but clear-eyed, clear-eyed about the challenges that will not disappear overnight.

I want to reiterate my message to the American people. We have overcome incredible challenges as a nation, and we have done it before, and we will do it again. We will do it by coming together, by uniting after years of pain and loss, a year particularly needed to heal, to rebuild, to reclaim America's place in the world.

[15:25:00]

This is the work that lies a of us, and I know we're up to the task. We will champion liberty and democracy once more. We will reclaim our credibility to lead the free world. And we will once again lead not just by the example of our power, but by the power of our example.

God bless you all, and may God protect our troops. Thank you.

TAPPER: You have been listening to president-elect Joe Biden speaking from Wilmington, Delaware, talking about the major national security and foreign policy challenges he expects to face when he takes office on January 20.

The president-elect emphasized the importance of building and rebuilding relationships with allies, but he also strongly criticized the Trump administration, not only for alienating allies, but also, specifically, he accused some political leaders in the Trump administration obstructing efforts of his team to begin the transition process and learn everything they need to learn.

The president-elect also addressed to the suicide bombing in Nashville on Christmas Day. He thanked the first responders, who almost certainly saved lives by clearing the area before the explosion.

We should note that President Trump has not yet addressed the suicide bombing.

CNN's M.J. Lee is live for us in Wilmington. And, M.J. has the president-elect laid out any detailed plans about how he's going to confront some of these challenges when it comes to, for instance, climate change and rebuilding alliances?

LEE: Well, one thing that has been so striking about watching Joe Biden today is that you know, as a presidential candidate, one of his biggest assets that he put forward was his deep foreign policy experience, that he was vice president for eight years, that he was very familiar being on the world stage.

But his transition has been so consumed by domestic issues, namely, of course, COVID-19 and the economic crisis. And today was just a real reminder that, of course, when he becomes president on January 20, there are a number of national security challenges that he is going to inherit as well.

I mean, you look at some of the things that he talked about behind that podium there today, talking about how agencies have been followed -- have been hollowed out by President Trump, that there has been -- there have been international alliances that have simply been weakened under President Trump's reign.

He said there was a general disengagement from the world that has made it more difficult to protect American people and that rebuilding foreign policy is going to be simply one of his biggest challenges both for him and vice president-elect Kamala Harris, and then just talking more broadly about this world view that Trump's idea of sort of going at it alone simply does not work, that his belief is that, to tackle some of these global challenges, including, as you mentioned, climate change, that it can't be America acting alone, but they have to work with other countries around the world, and that this is sort of one of the biggest contrast for him that he is going to bring to the table when he gets to the White House.

Obviously, COVID did remain a focus as well. And he talked briefly about the vaccination distribution process. And I should note quickly, tomorrow, he is going to be giving a speech here in Wilmington that is solely focused on COVID-19 again -- Jake.

TAPPER: all right, M.J. Lee in Wilmington, Delaware, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

Let me bring in a panel to discuss.

And, Jackie Kucinich, let me start with you.

President-elect Biden saying there that his transition team has hit what he called roadblocks with the Pentagon. And he called the lack of coordination, cooperation and transparency from certain political leaders in the Trump administration nothing short of, in his view, irresponsibility.

That's -- for Biden, who is trying to have a smooth transition process and heal divisions and all, that -- it was not difficult to detect a real note of irritation there.

JACKIE KUCINICH, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, and that can be forgiven.

I mean, let's not forget how it was only, what, a month ago when his transition team was able to access funds and to be able to access some of the government processes that are usually automatic after someone loses. But since President Trump has chosen to cling to power in the way that he has, and several of his appointees have closed ranks and tried to make it harder for the Biden, incoming Biden administration to undo some of the things that President Trump has done, and, in doing so, slowed down the peaceful transition of power on that side.

So, you can forgive the irritation from Biden at this point in the process.

TAPPER: And, Ron, I mean, this isn't just about Biden's feelings. This is -- this is bad for the national security of the American people.

I mean, if they -- if acting Cabinet officials or others are purposely not cooperating with the incoming administration, who knows what that might mean when it comes to any -- any number of national security threats.

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, you could argue, Jake, we are -- we are seeing two extremes here at the same time.