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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Interview With Former Gov. Chris Christie (D-NJ); Vaccine Rollout Debacle; FDA To Consider Giving Half Doses Of Moderna; Biden, Trump & Pence Campaign In Georgia Ahead Of Crucial Runoffs. Aired 4:30-5p ET

Aired January 04, 2021 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R-NJ): And I'm, quite frankly, proud of the Georgia secretary of state and his team that was on the phone that dealt with that entire call, as it seemed to me, unemotionally, directly, and under the law.

[16:30:08]

And that's what we all have to do. Listen, you know, Jake, I supported the president, both in '16 and in '20, helped prepare him for his debates both times and voted for him both times.

But the election is over. Joe Biden has been elected president of the United States. He will be sworn in on January 20. He will be confirmed this Wednesday.

And what I hope members of the House and the Senate focus on is the future in terms of how we run elections. I don't think anybody, Jake, liked the way election night ran this time, waiting so long for results, there being kind of a disorderly type of process, because we were doing new things based upon COVID.

I think what the Congress should be doing is be forward-looking and say, OK, how can we help the states make our election process for 2022 more orderly, more accessible, and fair to everybody?

And that's what we should be focused on, looking straight ahead and not looking in the rearview mirror.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: You're a former U.S. attorney.

I don't have to tell you that, when there is extortion or threat, often, it is, nice business you have here, it'd be a shame if anything happened to it.

When you listen to that call, is there a crime there? Is there a conspiracy to commit a crime?

CHRISTIE: I don't think there's a crime there, Jake, from what I heard.

I listened to -- I have not -- confess I have not listened to the entire tape. But from the parts that I listened to, I don't see a crime there. I just think it's inappropriate. It's the wrong thing to do. And it's something that the president shouldn't be doing.

But what we should really be focused on, in my view, is the conduct of the people who, in fact, were responsible for the election, Governor Kemp of Georgia, an exemplary job under a lot of pressure, Secretary of State Raffensperger, exemplary job under extraordinary pressure, and elected officials all across the country.

With the stakes as high as they are in a presidential race, what we really need to focus on and what I'm focusing on is the positive today. And the positive is that our election officials reacted appropriately, lawfully. They gave the president his opportunity to make his argument both in court and now privately.

And they continue to conduct themselves in a way that I think should make people in Georgia and across the country really proud. And when I hear our democracy is at risk, it really isn't, Jake, because what's going on proves our democracy works. And that will be proven again on Wednesday.

TAPPER: Let's talk about that worsening coronavirus pandemic, because this is the first time we have seen you since you were hospitalized with the virus.

As I expressed to you privately, I'm so glad you're better and you're out of the hospital.

You're now out with a new PSA encouraging Americans to wear masks. Let's watch a little clip from it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTIE: Lying in isolation in an ICU for seven days, I thought about how wrong I was to remove my mask at the White House. Today, I think about how wrong it is to let mask-wearing divide us, especially, as we now know, you're twice as likely to get COVID-19 if you don't wear a mask, because, if you don't do the right thing, we could all end up on the wrong side of history.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: It's a great message.

Why do you think this is still a discussion that we're having so many months into this pandemic?

CHRISTIE: Jake, it's frustrating to me, because, in the seven months before I got sick, I regularly wore a mask, washed my hands 10 or 12 times a day, kept out of big crowds, and socially distanced, and I stayed healthy.

And then, for four days, I let my guard down in the White House when I thought I was in a safe place. And I was wrong. There is no safe place from this virus.

And, listen, it costs me. I was in the ICU for seven days. And I'm very, very fortunate that I didn't take a turn for the worse. And we have seen just this week people without any underlying conditions, young people, who have lost their lives.

So it's a very random disease. And the political divide on this makes no sense to me. And that's why, after I got out of the hospital, I had this group, the COVID Collective, of folks who were trying to get this message across come to me after I had written an op-ed for "The Wall Street Journal" about what a mistake it was for me to take my mask off for four days at the White House, and asked if I was willing to do that in a public service announcement.

I'm proud to do it. And I say to everyone out there, Republican, independent, Democrat, put your mask on and keep it on until you're able to be vaccinated and we can get this country back to normal. It's very little to ask in order to save your own life and the lives of people around you.

TAPPER: Many Republican officials are the ones who are disregarding your advice and holding campaign events, for example, in Georgia, with maskless crowds, including Republican Senator Kelly Loeffler, held an indoor rally over the weekend.

Most of the crowd was not wearing masks. Do you worry that people like Senator Loeffler are undercutting your important message?

CHRISTIE: Well, Jake, I don't know about that rally.

[16:35:00]

I have seen Loeffler on campaigning over the last number of weeks, and I have always seen her with a mask on. And I think she's setting the right example.

Now, you can't force people to wear masks. And that's why what I'm trying to do is persuade them to do it. And I think Senator Loeffler is sending a very good message, a message that, quite frankly, the president should send by wearing a mask. And he hasn't done that.

And I have told him that since March. But I have seen Senator Loeffler wearing a mask, Senator McConnell wearing a mask. There's a lot of Republican leaders who are doing it. All of us should be doing it. This should not be something that's open to question. We should -- when we're out in public, we should be wearing a mask.

TAPPER: I wanted to have you on today because I wanted to ask you about this case coming up tomorrow that's very personal for you.

There's a hearing tomorrow, after a Pakistani court ordered the release of four men accused of kidnapping and murdering American journalist Daniel Pearl in 2002. You were the U.S. attorney in New Jersey who worked to have the alleged mastermind behind Pearl's murder charged in the U.S.

Now you're pushing for him to finally face justice here. Tell us what's happening tomorrow and what you want to happen.

CHRISTIE: Well, first and foremost, if they keep Sheikh Omar in, who is the perpetrator of bring Danny Pearl, "Wall Street Journal" reporter, luring him to a spot, promising an interview with someone who could talk to you about the shoe bomber, Mr. Reid, they instead kidnapped him, and then they decapitated him, Jake, and videoed it and sent it back to his wife, who was pregnant with their first child.

It was a horrific terrorist crime. And we indicted Sheikh Omar here in New Jersey and his other accomplices. Sheikh Omar was tried and convicted and sentenced to death in Pakistan. He was being kept in jail, and he's been in jail for the last more than dozen years now. And, all of a sudden, now they're going to let him out.

The first thing I'd love, Jake, keep him in jail in Pakistan and keep him in jail for the rest of his life in Pakistan. But if they're going to let him out, Secretary Pompeo and acting Attorney General Rosen, on behalf of the administration, should demand extradition from the Pakistanis to the United States.

The New Jersey U.S. attorney's office stands ready to prosecute him for that crime and have him face justice in America. Instead of being distracted Jake in the last days of this administration by collateral issues, we should be focused on standing up to terror.

And Danny Pearl's wife, his child and the rest of his family deserve the support of the American government.

TAPPER: A hundred percent.

And whatever help you need in continuing to bring attention to this issue, even if Pompeo doesn't do it, and we need maybe Secretary Blinken to do it or whoever, stay in touch. Let's keep the attention on this story.

Former Governor Chris Christie, thanks so much for joining us. So glad to see you again in this new year.

CHRISTIE: Thank you, Jake. Happy new year.

TAPPER: It may be a new year, but the pandemic is, sadly, getting worse, one American now dying every 33 seconds, as we get a better sense of the vaccine rollout debacle.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:41:57]

TAPPER: In our health lead today, the first group in the U.S. fully vaccinated against coronavirus, select front-line workers, got their second dose of the Pfizer vaccine.

It is a hopeful, yet remains a painfully slow step towards ending this pandemic in the U.S. The Trump administration promised 20 million Americans would be vaccinated by December. The current number is less than a quarter of that, 4.5 million.

Meantime, the pandemic is getting worse. CNN's Nick Watt joins us now with breaking news on that.

Nick, what are you learning?

NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, we are tracking this U.K. variant, this more transmissible strain, six cases now reported here in California and one in New York, tied, officials believe, to a jewelry store in Saratoga Springs.

Now, we don't yet really know for sure if the vaccines are going to work against variants such as this U.K. one. Most experts believe that the vaccines will work. But, understandably, there is a little bit of nervousness until we know for sure.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WATT (voice-over): Today, a nurse in New Jersey among the first people in America fully vaccinated against COVID-19. That's her dose number two.

(APPLAUSE)

WATT: Such a big deal, the governor came to watch, applaud, elbow- bump.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I now have body armor.

(LAUGHTER)

WATT: But the overwhelming majority of Americans still awaiting dose one.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're senior citizen. All we want is get the vaccine. Please give us the vaccine.

DR. MONCEF SLAOUI, CHIEF ADVISER, OPERATION WARP SPEED: Nothing has gone wrong. What we have committed to was to have 20 million doses of vaccine available for the American people to be immunized with...

QUESTION: No. No, Mr. Slaoui. It was...

SLAOUI: We have worked...

QUESTION: No, it was that 20 million Americans would be vaccinated.

WATT: By New Year's. Now he says 20 million vaccinated was a hope, not a commitment.

Bottom line, it's January 4, and still just a little over 4.5 million have had a shot. The FDA meets this week to discuss halving the dose of Moderna's vaccine for the 18-to-55 demo to get more shots in arms.

Meantime, the virus remains rampant.

ERIC GARCETTI (D), MAYOR OF LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA: Well, we're seeing a person every six seconds contract COVID-19 here in Los Angeles County.

WATT: Nationwide, record numbers in the hospital, 100,000-plus for 33 days straight. And over the past week, one person has died from COVID- 19 every 33 seconds. No words of sympathy from the president, just a tweet brushing off the death toll as fake news.

His own surgeon general disagrees.

DR. JEROME ADAMS, SURGEON GENERAL OF THE UNITED STATES: I have no reason to doubt those numbers.

WATT: The president's lie compounds the pain of the bereaved.

ROSE CERNA, DAUGHTER AND NIECE OF COVID-19 VICTIMS: It's an insult to every family, because there's absolutely no way for somebody to say that it was fake, because my dad is not fake dead.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WATT: Now, the slow rollout of the vaccine isn't all down to the feds. They have shipped out more than 15 million doses, fewer than five million doses actually in arms.

[16:45:02]

There are only four states that have injected more than 50 percent of doses they have. Those states are the Dakotas, Tennessee, and Connecticut -- Jake.

TAPPER: Yeah. A reminder that President Trump was saying the vaccine would come out before the election and Azar, Alex Azar, the HHS secretary, was saying, 100 million doses by end of the year. Promises not fulfilled.

Nick Watt, thanks so much.

Coming up next, our Dr. Sanjay joins me with a close look at this idea of cutting vaccine doses in half in order to get more shots into arms.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:20:15]

TAPPER: Back with more in our health lead, the FDA is meeting this week over whether to cut Moderna COVID vaccine doses in half to try to speed up the vaccine rollout.

Joining us now, CNN's chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

Sanjay, how would half doses work?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, essentially, you know, they come in vials of ten doses, and doses are each 100 micrograms. I mean, this is the trial dose that they sort of settled on. They would basically give half the volume to each person. So, instead of 100 micrograms, they'd be getting 50 micrograms for both doses, for the first dose and the second dose. It sounds pretty simple, it's a little bit more logistically complicated.

Moncef Slaoui told me that you may need different syringes and different needles to actually make this work. But this is precisely what the FDA is going to be talking about. And Moncef told me in terms of a possible strategy to try and address, you know, getting more vaccine out there.

TAPPER: Do we know if Moderna tested using half doses? I mean, will it still be as effective?

GUPTA: Yeah, we don't know, and even the data that Moncef was sharing is not really published data. The way the trial should work is basically in phase three, you're giving a certain dose, and you're seeing, does it prevent COVID illness or not? They don't have that sort of data on the 50 micrograms.

But what they do have, Jake, and this is interesting, is that when they found in phase two trials that people under the age of 55, when they got that smaller dose, that half dose, 50 micrograms, the amount of antibodies that they produce, these neutralizing antibodies and stabilizing antibodies were the same overlapped with what they were producing if they got 100 micrograms.

So, it seems to be a difference here that Moncef and others have sort of pointed to, based on your age. Younger people tend to have a stronger immune response to the vaccine and in their case, 50 micrograms may be enough. But we don't have critical data to show whether or not that will actually prevent disease.

So, this is a real -- this is a line within the scientific community. Some people are in favor of exploring these sorts of options, others such as Paul Offit you had on your show, Peter Hotez, they think this is a terrible idea because you don't have the scientific validity to back it up. I think this is going to be an ongoing discussion, Jake, having the doses, using just one dose, the conversation is not completely over with this yet.

TAPPER: New CDC research, Sanjay, shows there are only four states that have administered at least half their COVID vaccine doses. So, that's 46 states that haven't even, you know, given out, put out shots in arms for half of what they have. So, why even do this if there's still all of this vaccine that hasn't been disseminated and, you know, inoculated in people's arms?

GUPTA: Yeah. No, I mean, that is a very good question. The problem really is more about the distribution and logistics than the vaccine itself to your point, Jake, because there's a lot of vaccine that's simply sitting in freezers.

I can tell you, you know, every state is approaching this differently. I remember when you and I spoke earlier in December of last year, we predicted this would be an uneven sort of distribution process because each state would feel very different, and we're seeing that sort of manifest.

On a very practical level, I can tell you, for example, the hospital I work, I was there today, Grady, they had the highest number of patients with COVID in the hospital right now that they've had throughout the pandemic, right now. That is the same place where vaccines are being administered. You can sort of see the problem here, the very institutions that are so taxed by the pandemic itself are often tasked with also distributing and inoculating people with the vaccine.

It's just hard. I mean, manpower is an issue here.

TAPPER: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks so much.

And be sure to check out Sanjay's new book. It's called "Keep Sharp: Build a Better Brain at Any Age." It comes out tomorrow. We're going to have Sanjay on later in the week to discuss.

President-elect Joe Biden in Georgia right now. Will he weigh in on President Trump's shakedown of the Georgia secretary of state?

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:59:00]

TAPPER: We're back with our politics lead right now. You're looking at live pictures from Atlanta, Georgia.

President-elect Joe Biden is campaigning there for two Democrats running in runoff races. The winners will decide which party controls the U.S. Senate when President-elect Biden becomes President Biden.

Vice President Mike Pence earlier today campaigned for the two Republican senators. President Trump will hold a rally in Georgia this evening.

And CNN will bring full coverage of the results as they come in tomorrow. "Election Night in America" begins again at 4:00 p.m. Eastern tomorrow, only here on CNN.

Before we go, we do want to take a moment to remember one of the 352,000 lives taken by coronavirus in this country.

Celine Blancas (ph) was just 35 years old. She taught first grade in El Paso, Texas. You might remember her, or a product of her work. She made this video we're showing you right here in 2018 that showed her students hugging good-bye. The video had more than 24 million views online.

She tested positive for coronavirus in October and she died three days after Christmas. Her brother says that Celine's legacy has inspired him to become a teacher.

To the Blancas family, our deepest condolences. May her memory be a blessing.

Follow me on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter. @JakeTapper. Tweet the show @TheLeadCNN.

Our coverage on CNN continues right now.