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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Interview With Rep. David Cicilline (D-RI); House Drafts Article of Impeachment Against President Trump. Aired 4-4:30p ET

Aired January 08, 2021 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:03]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Here's hoping that there will be a change for the better. Lives need to be saved.

Erica Hill, thank you so, so much for the update on the variant here in the U.S.

Thank you for being with me. I'm Brooke Baldwin here in New York.

Let's go to Washington now. "THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER" starts right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

And we begin today with breaking news.

Just moments ago, CNN obtained a draft of the article of impeachment against President Trump that House Democrats plan to introduce on Monday, the single article, incitement of insurrection.

This is all happening in the final 12 days of the Donald Trump presidency, which has ended, of course, with death and destruction, a violent terrorist attack by his supporters on the U.S. Capitol, resulting in five dead, including a U.S. Capitol Police officer.

Minutes ago, president-elect Joe Biden said he is focused on his agenda. He's leaving impeachment up to Congress. House Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy said today that impeaching the president would -- quote -- "only divide our country more" -- unquote.

Keep in mind, McCarthy has been leading the charge to divide the country with these unhinged lies about the election. Even after blood had been shed and the Capitol ransacked by MAGA terrorists, McCarthy voted for that seditious effort to disenfranchise millions of legal voters from Arizona and Pennsylvania based on the deranged conspiracy theories.

Right now, White House advisers tell CNN that President Trump has zero intention of resigning. Instead, sources say the plan for now is for President Trump to leave Washington, D.C., for Mar-a-Lago in 11 days, on January 19. President Trump tweeted that he will not attend president-elect

Biden's inauguration January 20. Biden minutes ago calling that decision -- quote -- "one of the few things he and I have ever agreed on. It's a good thing" -- unquote.

President-elect Biden going on to say the outgoing president is an embarrassment to the United States and has never been fit to hold the office.

Let's get straight to CNN's Manu Raju live on Capitol Hill.

Manu, walk us exactly through what President Trump is accused of doing in this draft of the article of impeachment.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this draft narrowly tailored about the president's actions after the elections, saying he is going to be impeached for -- quote -- "incitement of an insurrection," detailing his actions after the elections, detailing what happened on Wednesday that led to the deadly violence of his mob, the mob that came to Capitol Hill.

And also, in this article, it says it would disqualify him to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust or profit under the United States, significant, of course, because the president won't be the president anymore come January 20 -- Jake.

TAPPER: The House is controlled by Democrats. So it wouldn't surprise me if they were able to pass this. But you need 67 senators to go along with this to remove the president from office, that body still controlled by Republicans.

Are there 67 votes in the Senate to impeach and remove the president from office?

RAJU: It's hard to see that at the moment.

But this is such a developing situation that it remains to be seen exactly when the senators could vote on whether to convict this president, because the Republicans, currently led by Mitch McConnell, the Senate majority leader, he will no longer be majority leader come January 20.

And there's no appetite among McConnell and Senate Republicans to bring the Senate back into session and have an impeachment trial next week. Next week is when we expect the House to vote to impeach the president, assuming they go down that route.

So, then, when the Senate flips hands, what do they do? That's a big question, because Mitch -- Chuck Schumer will be the majority leader come January 20. And he -- they can still move forward with an impeachment trial, even after Donald Trump has left office.

And if they were to convict Donald Trump after he left office, it would prevent him from running for president ever again. Those are questions that Democrats discussed, Jake, on a conference call this afternoon. One of the concerns that was raised is how that would look for the incoming Biden administration.

Could it be awkward for them as they're trying to present a unified vision for this country, as they have -- pushing an ambitious agenda as he's trying to get his Cabinet filled? All of those are difficult political questions that they're trying to sort out now in a key conference call this afternoon, Jake.

Nancy Pelosi is going to speak with Joe Biden. And when Joe Biden talked about impeachment this afternoon, he did not embrace it. He said, it's up to Congress. And that's something that Democratic leaders are still sorting through, Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Manu Raju with the breaking news on Capitol Hill, thanks so much.

White House advisers say President Trump has no intention of resigning, despite this pressure, because he -- quote -- "doesn't think he did anything wrong" -- unquote.

Meanwhile, sources say a longtime Trump aide and the White House counsel are both considering resigning from their posts, as CNN's Kaitlan Collins now reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Surprising no one, President Trump announced he will not be going to the inauguration on January 20, breaking a longstanding tradition for outgoing U.S. presidents.

Instead, CNN has learned he and first lady Melania Trump are currently scheduled to depart Washington for Mar-a-Lago the day before Joe Biden is sworn in.

[16:05:06]

While Trump's absence was not unexpected, the move undermines a commitment he made last night in this video that senior staff convinced him to make by warning he's at risk of being removed from office.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A new administration will be inaugurated on January 20. My focus now turns to ensuring a smooth, orderly and seamless transition of power.

COLLINS: With less than two weeks left, the West wing is in crisis mode, amid a growing threat to impeach Trump again, a wave of resignations, and his former staffers calling on him to step down.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: You would feel safer today if President Trump resigned and Mike -- Vice President Mike Pence took over?

ALYSSA FARAH, FORMER WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR OF STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS: I would.

COLLINS: Education Secretary Betsy DeVos is the latest to announce she will leave before Trump's term ends. And CNN has learned that two other top aides, White House counsel Pat Cipollone and senior adviser Hope Hicks, have also discussed resigning.

Trump still hasn't spoken to Pence after he defied him by following a constitutional process to certify Biden's win, though Pence was seen arriving at the White House today.

While Democrats are threatening to impeach Trump if Pence doesn't lead the Cabinet and invoking the 25th Amendment, which would rob him of his power, some Republicans are getting behind the effort.

SEN. BEN SASSE (R-NE): I will definitely consider whatever articles they might move, because, as I have told you, I believe that the president has disregarded his oath of office. What he did was wicked.

COLLINS: Amid bipartisan concerns about what Trump will do during his last 12 days in office, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi told Democrats that she talked to the nation's top military leader about ensuring that the president doesn't launch a nuclear attack.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): This is urgent. This is emergency of the highest magnitude.

COLLINS: After announcing she spoke to the Joint Chiefs Chairman Mark Milley, Pelosi wrote: "The situation of this unhinged president could not be more dangerous, and we must do everything that we can to protect the American people from his unbalanced assault on our country."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: Now, Jake, a Capitol Police officer has died from injuries that he sustained as that pro-Trump mob attacked the Capitol on Wednesday.

And in the hours after we have learned about his death, you have seen the flags at Capitol Hill have been lowered to half-staff in response to his death. And while the White House put out a statement earlier today saying they extend their deepest sympathies to this officer's family, given that he is -- the only the fourth officer to die in the line of duty since this force was founded almost two centuries ago, you will notice that the flags of the White House are still at full- staff.

They have not been lowered, as the ones at the Capitol have been. And we have asked the White House multiple times if they plan to do so or why they haven't so far. But, Jake, they haven't responded to us yet.

TAPPER: President Trump has blood on his hands.

Kaitlan Collins, thanks so much.

Minutes ago, president-elect Biden said it's a good thing that President Trump is not attending the inauguration, but said the invitation for Vice President Pence to attend still stands. Pence has not said what he's going to do. Biden did not mince words -- his words. He called President Trump an

embarrassment. He said he was not worthy or fit to hold office, and he's one of the most incompetent presidents ever.

CNN's Arlette Saenz joins me now from the banks of the Christina River in Wilmington, Delaware.

Arlette, you asked president-elect Biden about his stance on impeaching President Trump. What did he say?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, Jake, president-elect Biden told me he believes that the president is unfit to serve, but, ultimately, this decision about impeachment, he believes, should be made by Congress.

I pressed him on this twice. Take a listen to one of his answers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT: What the Congress decides to do is for them to decide. But I'm going to have to -- they're going to have to be ready to hit the ground running.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: And the president-elect said that, if this was taking place six months ago, then they should be moving forward for impeachment or a finding a way to get the president out of office.

But, in this moment, he believes the fastest way to get President Trump to leave the White House is by inaugurating and swearing in president-elect Biden and vice president-elect Harris.

And as for that inauguration, the president-elect said that that is the first thing that he has agreed with President Trump on, on his decision not to attend, saying it's a good thing -- Jake.

TAPPER: Arlette Saenz in Wilmington, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

Joining us now, Democratic congressman David Cicilline of Rhode Island.

Congressman, thanks so much for joining us.

We have the text of a draft of your article of impeachment. What specifically are you charging the president with? And why is this not happening until next week? I mean, there are only 12 days left in the administration.

REP. DAVID CICILLINE (D-RI): So, this is an article of impeachment that I have worked on with Congressman Ted Lieu and Congressman Jamie Raskin. And we include a single article, incitement of insurrection, which really focuses on the president's efforts to really disrupt or have his supporters disrupt a sacred proceeding of the Electoral College by promoting this lie that he won the election by millions of vote, and it has been stolen from him. [16:10:03]

That morning, he met with these protesters, again said, you need to show strength, you need to march to Capitol Hill, a lot of incendiary language. And it was really inevitable.

You propagate this lie long enough, and you create the impression in people that, in fact, the election was stolen, and violence ensued. They breached the Capitol. They destroyed property. Five people, including a Capitol Police officer, have died.

This was an effort to undermine our democracy by stopping the Electoral College, where the voices of the American people, what they decide in their vote, is formalized into the election of a president of the United States. They tried to stop that. It was a coup to try to keep President Trump in power.

And we just can't simply say, you know what, let's just wait 12 days, and he will be gone. We have a responsibility to hold him accountable. We took an oath. And our framers gave us one mechanism to impose a punishment on a president who engages in this behavior. And that's impeachment.

We can do this by way of a privileged resolution. When we're meeting in pro forma on Monday, we can introduce it. Then the leadership will decide whether or not we will take it up, whether they will call us back into session.

But we first have called on the president to resign. Second, we have called on the vice president to invoke 25th Amendment. If those two things do not happen, the only way we can hold him accountable and remove this dangerous man from office is to, in fact, impeach him.

TAPPER: But, Congressman, president-elect Biden is not taking a position on this. Would you like him to be more supportive?

CICILLINE: No, look, I think it is absolutely right that President Biden is completely focused on preparing the COVID response package, preparing an economic recovery package. He is inheriting huge challenges as a result of the gross mismanagement and incompetence and corruption of this president.

We want the new president to stay very focused on the work that lies ahead. And he's right. We need to be ready to hit the ground running. It's on us, members of Congress, to fulfill our responsibilities to hold this president accountable and to protect our democracy.

This was an effort by thugs and criminals...

TAPPER: Yes.

CICILLINE: .. to overrun the nation's Capitol and disrupt this important proceeding in which our president was elected.

We cannot allow that to stand without individuals being held accountable, everyone who was involved in it, from the president on down. And impeachment is the only mechanism that we have available to us as members of the House.

TAPPER: Let's talk about some other matters from today, Congressman.

Speaker Pelosi announced today that she felt the need to talk to the Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman, General Milley, about the president's access to the nuclear codes. I wonder if that's wise to announce to the world that she had that conversation.

I certainly understand why she had the conversation. But why let American enemies know about this period of instability, that it's even worse than maybe it appears from abroad?

CICILLINE: Well, I think it was important for the American people to hear the reassurance of Mr. Milley about his oath to the Constitution and to the law, and not to an individual. So, I don't want to speak for the Speaker of the House, but I presume it was so that the American people could be reassured that some of the anxiety that they have is dissipated by the assurances from our military leaders that they will honor their oath and follow the Constitution.

TAPPER: Congressman, I want to play for you some sound from one of your colleagues, Congressman Mo Brooks of Alabama.

This is him at that rally speaking to the mob before it became the domestic terrorist attack, before it became the insurrection. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MO BROOKS (R-AL): Today is the day American patriots start taking down names and kicking ass!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Congressmen, should there be repercussions for your colleagues who played a role in inciting this terrorist attack?

CICILLINE: I think there should be consequences for every single person who played any role in inciting this terrorist attack on our Capitol and the disruption of the proceedings to elect our new president.

TAPPER: Including Mo Brooks?

CICILLINE: And -- not -- in addition to those statements, remember, after blood was shed in the Capitol of the United States, many members of the Republican Party continued to support this completely fraudulent claim that somehow the election was stolen and voted to disqualify or discount elections -- votes cast from several states.

TAPPER: But what consequences?

You're the majority. I mean, should they not be allowed to serve on committees? Should they not be allowed to participate as normal members of Congress? I mean, there are -- there are plenty of Republicans who were not part of the sham, Congressman Kinzinger, Liz Cheney, et cetera.

I mean, what consequences should there be for the Mo Brookses of the world?

CICILLINE: Well, I think there has to be a thorough review, a complete investigation of all of the circumstances that led up to the assault on our Capitol and the attack by these individuals.

And that's going to require a very careful review of the conduct of many individuals. And I think we have to do complete review. And anyone who was responsible for inciting this, who contributed in any way to the violence that ensued at the Capitol must be held accountable, according to the laws of our country.

[16:15:09]

TAPPER: All right, Congressman Cicilline of Rhode Island, thank you so much. Appreciate your time today, sir. Have a good weekend.

CICILLINE: My pleasure.

TAPPER: The man pictured smirking with his feet on House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's desk is now behind bars, as federal investigators are announcing new arrests in the Capitol riots and ramp up a federal murder investigation.

Also ahead, breaking news on the pandemic, a warning about possible new COVID mutations found here in the U.S.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: More breaking news for you in our politics lead today.

Police have arrested and charged this person, Richard Barnett, for his actions during the insurrection, the storming of the Capitol Building. He's a leader of a pro-gun group and later openly bragged on video that he had trespassed in the speaker's office and stolen something from her desk.

In addition, a West Virginia state legislator, Derrick Evans, who recorded himself storming the Capitol, is now also facing criminal charges for entering a restricted area of the Capitol, according to a top official in the U.S. attorney's office.

[16:20:10]

There is now also, of course, a federal murder investigation because a Capitol Police officer died after the assault on the Capitol in the ensuing melee.

Three people in charge of protecting the Capitol Building have resigned, three of the leaders of the U.S. Capitol Police and their overseers.

I want to bring in CNN's Shimon Prokupecz.

Shimon, what are you learning about these new arrests?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

Well, the man you mentioned, in what's probably one of the most famous photos in all of this, is this 60-year-old Richard Barnett with his boots on the desk of Nancy -- Nancy Pelosi's desk. He was arrested by the FBI this morning in Arkansas.

And as you said, he's now facing charges, several charges, one of which involves unlawful entry, but also involves the fact that he stole mail. He took mail from her office. So the FBI has charged him in connection with that.

Another very serious arrest here -- and we just learned details of this during a call today with prosecutors and the FBI -- they arrested a man by the name of Leroy Coffman. They say they found 11 Molotov cocktails inside a truck he had parked near the Republican National Club on the Hill. They said they found 11 Molotov cocktails inside this truck.

They also found two guns on him. So, he was taken into custody by the FBI.

And, Jake, that death investigation, that is still very much ongoing, the FBI saying they are putting every resource behind that investigation. And just to give you the size of the enormity of this investigation, there are three command centers, hundreds of prosecutors, and agents all across the country, from 56 field offices at the FBI, working this investigation.

And the FBI and DOJ saying this is a top priority for them, Jake, and that we are going to see more arrests, Jake.

TAPPER: Far right domestic terrorism, a huge problem in this country. Usually, the president of the United States is not urging them on.

Shimon, thanks so much. Thank you so much.

Joining us now, former Secret Service agent and chief operating officer at Teneo Risk Jonathan Wackrow.

Jonathan, this was obviously a massive security failure on so many levels, not by the rank-and-file, most of whom were just doing their jobs and trying to protect the Capitol, but by leadership.

Senator Mark Warner said that he talked to senior FBI officials before the interaction, multiple times, he said, and he says they told him that they were prepared.

This is one of the most protected cities in our country. Plenty of us saw this coming weeks away. Why such a breakdown?

JONATHAN WACKROW, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT: Well, Jake, the breakdown can be looked at in really two points. First, the Capitol Police had an inability to respond to the acute

shock of the moment. They were basically overwhelmed. And they underestimated the level of violence that was coming towards them, coupled with the chronic issues of minimal security, in terms of physical security, at the Capitol.

A lot of people try to associate the Capitol with the White House in terms of the level of physical security. They're actually very different. And just by looking at it, there are no fences around the Capitol Building, as opposed to the White House.

So, those two aspects are really critical in looking at, why did we get to this point?

TAPPER: Oh, yes, they're day and night. The public has access to Congress, absolutely.

A spokesperson for Homeland Security said that law enforcement told them ahead of time that there was no indication of violent protests. The D.C. police chief said there was no intelligence there would be a breach of the Capitol.

But anybody paying attention knew that some of the people attending this rally, right-wing extremists, Proud Boys, people who have caused violence before -- a "Washington Post" journalist pointed out this picture of some of the attendees. They were wearing shirts saying "Civil War" and the date of the rally

Where -- I mean, I don't even understand how anyone can say we didn't have intelligence that there was a possible credible threat.

WACKROW: Jake, I am stunned by those comments. I am literally stunned.

My junior analysts had been looking at this for weeks. So, trained law enforcement professionals and intelligence professionals missed it? No way. I don't buy it.

This was a breakdown in risk intelligence planning. Law enforcement did not calculate the likelihood of this threat manifesting itself and associated with the inherent vulnerabilities of the Capitol.

I mean, this was a huge miss. And, again, it speaks to the governance and oversight of the law enforcement entity that's protecting the Capitol, the Capitol Police.

And to your point, was really important at the beginning of this, this is not about the individual officers. This is about the entity and the structure itself of the institution of the Capitol Police.

TAPPER: No, a lot of the officers are seriously injured, obviously, one killed, trying to protect the Capitol. This is about leadership.

Jon Wackrow, thank you so much. Appreciate your time, as always.

[16:25:00] He once called the Trump White House an adult day care center. That was three years ago. Former Republican Senator Bob Corker from Tennessee on whether Trump should be removed from office before January 20.

He joins me next.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

TAPPER: We have breaking news for you now.

The White House has just responded to efforts being mentioned to impeach President Trump again.

Let's go right to CNN's Kaitlan Collins.

Kaitlan, tell us what you're learning.

COLLINS: Well, Jake, this is notable. This is the first time the White House has talked about this as the talk of impeaching President Trump for a second time seems to be a real possibility now.

And a White House spokesman says that: "As President Trump said, this is a time for healing and unity as one nation. A politically motivated impeachment against a president with 12 days remaining in his term will only serve

[16:30:00]