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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Interview With National Guard Bureau Chief General Daniel Hokanson; Interview With Rep. Ted Lieu (D-CA); Democrats Introduce Article of Impeachment Against Trump. Aired 4-4:30p ET

Aired January 11, 2021 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:03]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Let's go to Washington. "THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER" starts right now.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

And we begin today on this final full week of the Trump presidency and the efforts to remove President Trump from office, even before these final nine days run out.

Today, an article of impeachment against President Trump has been formally introduced by down Democrats in the House, charging the president with -- quote -- "incitement of insurrection." It's a reference, of course, to the deadly terrorist attack by Trump supporters on the U.S. Capitol last week.

A vote this week could make President Trump the first president in the history of the republic to be impeached twice.

Of course, President Trump was not alone in inciting this deadly attack. Before the attack came, incitement, and before the incitement came, votes to commit sedition, and before votes to commit sedition, months of lies about the election.

And now one freshman Democrat, Missouri's Cori Bush, has introduced a resolution to expel the lawmakers who sought to invalidate the election results. That's two-thirds of the House Republican Caucus, though she specifically mentioned Senators Ted Cruz, Josh Hawley and Congressman Mo Brooks, who led objections to the outcome of the democratic election, even after a blood had been spilled in Congress, giving further credence to the false motivation of these rioters that the election was somehow stolen, which, of course, it was not.

Brooks even more specifically and directly incited that pro-Trump crowd on the morning of the terrorist attack, telling them this:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MO BROOKS (R-AL): Today is the day American patriots start taking down names and kicking ass!

(END VIDEO CLIP) TAPPER: Now there's a growing call for these Republican lawmakers to face at least some consequences for enabling and inciting this deadly delusion and attack, as Democratic Senator Joe Manchin and Republican Senator Pat Toomey told me yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): Whether they should resign or not, I don't know how they can live with themselves, knowing that people have died because of their words and actions.

SEN. PAT TOOMEY (R-PA): They're going to pay a big price for this.

I think their reputations have been affected.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Consequences for Brooks, Hawley and Cruz would be the bare minimum here. Do not forget two-thirds of the House Republican Caucus voted to invalidate millions of voters in Pennsylvania in Arizona, to their everlasting shame, based on lies and conspiracy theories.

And that includes House Republican Leaders McCarthy and Scalise. These lines have not gone away. In fact, the FBI is warning there may be more violence to come from Trump supporters.

Law enforcement is bracing for new, potentially bloody protests to come in Washington, D.C., and all 50 state capitals, as CNN's newly named chief White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins reports, President Trump is still refusing to take any responsibility for his actions, reportedly telling allies that he should not be blamed for the insurrection he incited because he didn't intend for the crowd he revved up to turn violent.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The House stands adjourned to 9:00 a.m. tomorrow.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Accusing him of inciting violence against the government of the United States, House Democrats took the first step today toward impeaching President Trump a second time.

REP. JIM MCGOVERN (D-MA): What this president did is unconscionable, and he needs to be held to account. I expect that he will be impeached. He will be the first president history to be impeached twice.

COLLINS: Majority Leader Steny Hoyer said the House will vote on impeaching Trump within 48 hours, after his caucus tried to formally pressure Vice President Mike Pence to use the 25th Amendment to strip Trump of his power today.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "House Resolution 21, resolution calling on Vice President Michael R. Pence to convene and mobilize the principal officers of the executive departments of the Cabinet to activate Section 4 of the 25th Amendment to declare President Donald J. Trump incapable of executing the duties of his office."

COLLINS: But Republicans quickly blocked that effort by Democrats.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For what purpose does the gentleman from West Virginia rise?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I object.

COLLINS: Pence hasn't issued statement ruling out the 25th Amendment, and although he hasn't spoken to the president since Wednesday, sources say it's unlikely he will take that dramatic step.

Trump was silent this weekend after being robbed of his Twitter account and instead remained behind closed doors at the White House as senators from his own party called on him to resign.

TAPPER: Your Republican colleague Senator Lisa Murkowski of Alaska says President Trump should resign. She said -- quote -- "He's caused enough damage."

Do you agree?

TOOMEY: Yes, I do. I think, at this point, with just a few days left, it's the best path forward, the best way to get this person in the rearview mirror. I think the president did commit impeachable offenses.

[16:05:07]

COLLINS: But sources say Trump has no plans to step down and now regrets the video he recorded condemning the mob of his supporters who attacked the U.S. Capitol.

Despite the president taking no responsibility for his supporters breaching the Capitol during a deadly riot, some Republicans are once again claiming he's learned his lesson.

SEN. ROY BLUNT (R-MO): My personal view is that the president touched the hot stove on Wednesday and is unlikely to touch it again.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: Now, Jake, sources are telling us basically to brace ourselves for the unexpected for these final few days that Donald Trump is in office.

But one big question that has not been answered yet is whether the president is going to try to pardon himself before he formally does leave office. We know it's something he's talked about. They have inquired with the Justice Department about how that would work.

And we are now learning that the White House counsel, Pat Cipollone, who, as you recall, represented the president in his last impeachment trial, has warned the president against doing so, though, of course, with that, we should note that other sources have said the president stopped listening to Cipollone after he pushed back on his lies about the election.

TAPPER: All right, Kaitlan Collins, thank you so much.

There will be heightened security at the Capitol for Wednesday's impeachment vote, according to House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer. And House Democrats say they have the votes to impeach.

CNN's Phil Mattingly joins us now live from Capitol Hill.

Phil, impeachment looks inevitable. But, behind the scenes, I hear that some Republicans are considering a different action?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's exactly right, Jake.

In an effort to kind of head off the impeachment train that, by all accounts, is absolutely going to happen on Wednesday, there are a group of House Republicans that have discussed the idea of proposing a censure of President Trump.

But here's what I'm being told by one of those Republicans now. They have reached out to some of their Democratic counterparts, try and see if it's an issue that might be taken up by the majority. And to a person, they have been turned down, which has really kind of shifted the focus to how Republicans are going to react, how they're going to vote on the issue of impeachment.

While we know Democrats already have the votes to impeach the president for a second time come Wednesday, there has been significant outreach, I'm told, over the course of the last couple of days to their Republican counterparts, right now, a half-dozen to a dozen that some Democrats believe they may be able to get to vote with them to impeach President Trump.

Remember, back in 2019, not a single House Republican joined Democrats in that effort. Democrats believe this time is different. And why? Well, they were all there on January 6. Right now, no Republicans are signed on, but that effort from Democrats, Jake, it continues.

TAPPER: Yes, that angry mob, those terrorists, they could have well killed any one of them. They didn't -- they were just out for blood.

Thanks so much. Appreciate it, Phil.

Joining me now, Democratic Congressman Ted Lieu of California.

Congressman Lieu, of right now, as I understand it, you have 214 co- sponsors for impeachment. Do you anticipate any Republicans will co- sponsor or vote for impeachment?

REP. TED LIEU (D-CA): We certainly hope so.

David Cicilline, Jamie Raskin, and I crafted this article of impeachment to be narrow and very straightforward. So, we hope some Republicans will vote for it. And it's going to be very overwhelming in terms of American public support.

We already know with a recent poll that over 56 percent of the American public already support removing this president immediately.

TAPPER: House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer has assured members there will be heightened security for the impeachment vote on Wednesday.

Are you confident about heightened security, given what we saw happened last week where -- look, there are a lot of very brave rank- and-file Capitol Hill police officers, but that was obviously a massive law enforcement failure to protect you and your colleagues.

LIEU: Yes, there will be extremely heightened federal security for the impeachment vote.

I also want to note that, last year, the Department of Homeland Security sent in forces, over the objections of local authorities, to protect Confederate statues and buildings. So, where the heck were they protecting us on January 6? So they have been investigated as well.

TAPPER: Not every Republican is supportive of this.

As you know, Republican Senator Marco Rubio of Florida blasted Democrats and Joe Biden this morning, saying talk of impeachment is ridiculous. Rubio said Democrats should be focused on unifying people.

If most Republicans are not willing to consider punishing the president after last week, I'm also hearing people like Rubio say that all you're going to do is embolden Trump's already angry base.

LIEU: Jake, he is absolutely wrong.

January 6 happened without an impeachment. It happened because no one stood up to Donald Trump's big lie. No one stood up to what was happening in the right-wing media. And what resulted was that Donald Trump incited a mob that attacked the Capitol. They were looking to assassinate Speaker Pelosi.

They were looking to hang Vice President Pence. They were hunting for lawmakers.

[16:10:01]

And to just pretend this didn't happen is unacceptable. The only way we can unify our country is to hold all those accountable who engaged in this attack, including the man who incited it. Donald Trump.

TAPPER: Yes.

Well, I know, when you say no one stood up, I know you're talking about current Republican leadership, not people in the media or people who have been chased out, like Charlie Dent or Jeff Flake.

LIEU: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: Congresswoman Cori Bush says that she's going to introduce a resolution to expel House members who voted to overturn election results. That's more than two-thirds, I think, of the Republican caucus in the House.

Congressman Tom Malinowski has introduced a resolution to specifically censure Congressman Mo Brooks, who directly incited the crowd. What do you think is the appropriate response to your colleagues who were involved one way or another?

LIEU: I support both Representatives Cori Bush and Tom in and their efforts. I also note that incitement to insurrection is a federal crime.

So, anyone who incites an insurrection should be investigated and prosecuted. No one is above the law, not the president and not members of Congress. So, I hope federal prosecutors and FBI are looking at what some of these Republican members of Congress did to have January 6 happen.

TAPPER: Punchbowl News is reporting today that some Hill Democrats are planning to -- quote -- "blackball" Republicans that were involved in the efforts to either commit sedition vote -- by voting against the electoral votes or inciting the riot, refusing to co-sponsor bills with them, freezing out lobbyists connected to them.

Is that appropriate, do you think?

LIEU: So, again, I think there should be an investigation of what some members of Congress did.

And depending on what they did, I believe, if they incited an insurrection, they should be prosecuted. My general view is that, look, if I'm working, let's say on an infrastructure bill, I welcome anyone who wants to support that infrastructure bill.

So, I'm not going to prevent members, regardless of what party they're in, from supporting or co-sponsoring good bills.

TAPPER: When you say an investigation, you mean by the House Ethics Committee? You mean by the FBI? Who are you talking about?

LIEU: Well, both the House should investigate some of these Republican members, as well as federal law enforcement, because, again (AUDIO GAP)

TAPPER: OK, you're breaking up, Congressman.

Thank you so much for your time today. We really appreciate it.

A new warning about potentially violent protests in the coming days, not just to the nation's capital, but in all 50 state capitals.

Then, we're going to talk to the chief of the National Guard about what happened during the insurrection, what preparations they are making ahead of the inauguration.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:16:51]

TAPPER: Law enforcement is currently on notice in all 50 states: Be on the lookout for armed protests at capitals nationwide, a source tells CNN.

The mayor of Washington, D.C., Muriel Bowser, wants a pre-emergency declaration to be able to get more law enforcement on the street leading up to the inauguration.

Plus, as CNN's Alex Marquardt now reports for us, the attack on the U.S. Capitol was much more violent than it first appeared. And we must warn you, some of the new images are emerging are rather graphic.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): The nation and its capital bracing for more violence in the coming days, including around the inauguration of president-elect Joe Biden.

MURIEL BOWSER (D), MAYOR OF WASHINGTON, D.C.: Our goals right now are to encourage Americans to participate virtually.

MARQUARDT: According to one law enforcement source, federal and state officials have been working closely as they monitor calls online for potentially armed and violent protests in Washington, D.C., and in all 50 states.

D.C. Mayor Muriel Bowser asked that the president declared a pre- emergency disaster, citing unprecedented challenges.

BOWSER: Further, I am requesting the secretary of the Department of the Interior cancel any and all public gathering permits in the District of Columbia.

MARQUARDT: The Pentagon announced on Monday that it is doubling the number of National Guard troops already mobilized to 15,000 for the inauguration.

Five days after the historic violent insurrection at the Capitol, new chilling video continues to emerge. Here, a police officer is being brutally assaulted by the insurrectionist mob stomped on and hit with a flagpole, as the crowd sings the national anthem and chants "USA."

As the mob tried to force their way into the Capitol, another officer was caught in the crush of people, bloody, as he cries for help.

The head of the Capitol Police, who has stepped down, told "The Washington Post," before the riot, his bosses didn't want him to request to have the National Guard on standby. The Pentagon confirmed that the Capitol Police made no request before Wednesday's events.

JONATHAN HOFFMAN, PENTAGON SPOKESMAN: Based on that assessment that they had, they believe they had sufficient personnel and did not make a request.

MARQUARDT: When the insurrection was under way, former Capitol Police Chief Steven Sund told "The Washington Post" that he pleaded five more times for help amid the chaos. The Pentagon responded, according to Sund, that they didn't like the idea of the National Guard in a police line.

The general who was on the phone now denies that, but the decision was made to send the Guard shortly after by acting Defense Secretary Chris Miller. Now the hunt is on for many of the rioters, the FBI and D.C. police asking the public for help identifying them, like this man carrying the Confederate Flag through the halls of Congress.

Others have been named. The bearded man wearing the "Camp Auschwitz" shirt is Robert Keith Packer from Virginia. The man in all black with a holster seen carrying plastic restraints is Eric Munchel from Nashville. He was charged with two federal crimes.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MARQUARDT: And, Jake, so far, there have been 20 people arrested on federal charges. And the acting U.S. attorney for D.C. says there could be hundreds more arrests, including some for murder.

[16:20:06]

Jake, we have also just heard from Chad Wolf, the acting secretary of homeland security, who says that he has ordered the Secret Service to start its security operations for the inauguration almost a week ahead of time, starting Wednesday, instead of the day just before the inauguration next week -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Alex Marquardt, thanks so much.

I want to bring in General Daniel Hokanson, who's chief of the National Guard Bureau.

So, General, let's start with what former Capitol Hill Police Chief Steven Sund told "The Washington Post." He said that, at 2:26:00 p.m. the day of the attack, he was on a call with D.C. government and Pentagon officials, including the director of the Army staff, and he made a -- quote -- "urgent, urgent, immediate request for National Guard assistance. I have got to get boots on the ground" -- unquote.

He says Lieutenant General Walter Piatt, director of the Army staff, said he could not recommend that his boss, Army Secretary McCarthy, approve the request -- quote -- "I don't like the visual of the National Guard standing a police line with the Capitol in the background," he said."

"Again and again," Sund said, "the situation is dire." He said he was ignored for hours. Why? GEN. DANIEL HOKANSON, CHIEF, NATIONAL GUARD BUREAU: Jake, I don't

know the answer to that.

But what I do know is that, when Secretary McCarthy did get the request, what they did is, they took the National Guard forces from the D.C. National Guard that were on duty, and they brought them from their locations around the traffic control points and the metro stations, brought them back to the D.C. armory to get them properly equipped, so that they could support the law enforcement officials that actually went back into our nation's Capitol.

And, at that time, they did provide cordon security, so those law enforcement teams could go back through the chambers and make sure the area was clear, so our House and Senate could come back and conduct the nation's business.

TAPPER: Just so people don't -- as people understand, D.C. has a National Guard unit. But because D.C. does not have statehood status, the mayor is not able to mobilize and needs to get the National Guard deployed approved by the Pentagon.

And for some reason, the Pentagon held back on approving that.

Let me ask you a question. Was General Charles Flynn on that call, that 2:26 call?

HOKANSON: Jake, I couldn't answer that question. I was not on that call.

But I'm not aware of any delays with respect to our response or the D.C. National Guard's response to the events of that day.

TAPPER: No delays once the Army secretary approved it, once acting Secretary of Defense Miller approved it, you're saying. But in terms of delays, you acknowledge there were delays? It's just not your issue. It was your -- the people that needed to give approval, right?

HOKANSON: Jake, so when you look at what they were asked to do, they were prepared to do the mission that they were doing, the traffic control point.

TAPPER: Right.

HOKANSON: But when there's a significant change in mission and the posture and a protective posture they need to be under to be successful, we had to get them back to get them properly equipped and briefed, so that, when they entered there, they were part of the solution and were not miscoordinated with the other efforts that were taking place.

TAPPER: Well, let's talk about that, because, on December 31, Mayor Bowser from Washington, D.C., she requested these National Guard troops for January 6. And that's what they were doing. They were out there. They were deployed doing traffic and that sort of thing.

The decision was made at that point, once that request was approved, to grant the request, but to send the D.C. National Guard in civilian vehicles, not in Humvees, as had been used when those same Guards men and women were deployed over the summer for the Black Lives Matter protests.

Why no show of force on January 6, as opposed to over the summer? And who made that decision?

HOKANSON: And, Jake, I believe that decision was made by the Metro Police of Washington, D.C.

And in cases like that, when we're support, we're not the lead agency, we work very closely with a supporting agency, in this case, the Metropolitan Police Department, to make sure that we meet their requirements and the circumstances under which they would like the D.C. Guard to perform that duty.

TAPPER: Did President Trump have any role in making sure that they were not deployed in Humvees, and instead in a lower-key fashion for on January 6?

HOKANSON: No, Jake, not that I'm aware of at all.

TAPPER: Maryland Governor Larry Hogan told me that, as the riot unfolded, about 3:30 on that day, he had his National Guard troops, Maryland National Guard, preparing to move in. He waited for authorization. It didn't come for two hours. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. LARRY HOGAN (R-MD): Our Guard mobilized and was ready. But we couldn't actually cross over the border into D.C. without the OK. And that was quite some time. We kept running it up the flagpole.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Now I asked about another delay.

HOKANSON: Yes.

TAPPER: Why the delay in allowing the Maryland National Guard into the District?

HOKANSON: So, with respect to the Maryland National Guard, Jake, when I first found out that they had been contacted by D.C., both Virginia and Maryland, I reached out to both the Virginia and the Maryland National Guard.

And it was at 3:55 in the afternoon that I actually spoke with their adjutant general. And, at that time, he told me that they were assembling 100 National Guardsmen at their armory that was just southwest of Baltimore. And he told me it would be eight to 10 hours, which is our normal planning factor when we talk about our National Guard response force, before they could get into Washington, D.C.

[16:25:17] And so from 4:00, eight to 10 hours after that, it actually wasn't until 11:00 p.m. that evening that unit was fully assembled and ready to go.

And then another thing to add in there, when they come into an environment like that, we need to make sure that we in-process them, make sure they're properly equipped, and also that we brief them, so that they know exactly what they're going to be asked to do, so, once again, that they could be part of the solution, and not add any further chaos into the situation they're entering.

TAPPER: I certainly respect that.

But, listen, men and women join the National Guard, as I don't need to tell you, because they're patriots, they want to help preserve order, they want to help keep the United States an orderly place, with freedoms preserved, so as to make sure that there aren't violent insurrections, violent terrorist attacks on the U.S. Capitol.

That's why people like you do what you do. Are you at all concerned that politics was at play from the Pentagon commanders who were delaying whether or not to let you deploy?

HOKANSON: Jake, I was not at all.

Our folks did everything that they were asked to do by their governors. And we appreciate the governor of Virginia and from Maryland to mobilizing their National Guard. And their adjutants general, when we look at the planning factors that we train under, they met all of those timelines.

But what it is, we're not a force that's really literally standing by, unless, in the case of D.C., where they have already been asked to do that. Many of these folks left their jobs, their families, and assembled at their armories in the timelines that we normally expect for them.

In fact, if you look at the unit was fully assembled by 11:00 p.m., it's normally 24 hours. So they did a great job getting their folks there together.

TAPPER: Well, sir, let me -- I'm sorry to interrupt

But, like, on January 4, the Pentagon's own timeline says that a rapid response force was approved on January 4. So, where were they?

HOKANSON: So, Jake, with respect to that rapid response force, that rapid response force was to help out with the traffic control points, and also for the folks at the metro stops.

They were not designed for anything beyond that. So, their intent is, if they had an issue with a traffic control point, that that reaction force would there go and help augment them. And so when you look at the mission change, when the Capitol Police requested that additional support, that quick reaction force, also, with the folks at the traffic control points and the metro stops, all went back to the armory to get equipped and get briefed and moved out as quickly as they could.

TAPPER: I'm getting a lot of answers from you. And, again, I don't hold you or the National Guard responsible for this.

But I have to say, this was a failure. And people are dead. And I hope people at the Pentagon are looking into what happened, because something happened wrong. And while I don't have subpoena power, I hope that people in the Pentagon are looking into this, especially the inspector general.

HOKANSON: You know, Jake, and one of the things here is, as we look forward, OK, after the 6th, looking forward to the inauguration, we are working very close with those federal agencies and filling all of their support requests.

And that evening, we actually were on the phone. I was on the phone with Pennsylvania, New York, New Jersey, and Delaware. And they gladly volunteered the 6,400 that we have on duty today. And we're building that up to 15,000 between now and the inauguration to make sure that we meet every requirement from each of those federal agencies to make sure that they can conduct a peaceful transfer of power of inauguration on the 20th of January.

TAPPER: General Dan Hokanson, I thank you for your service, sir. I thank you.

Please pass on to the National Guards men and women our appreciation for their service. I hope that politics does not interfere in what happens in the coming days, because we need your help.

HOKANSON: Hey, thank you, Jake. Thanks for the opportunity.

TAPPER: One Republican senator says the insurrection was like President Trump touching a hot stove, and, surely, he's learned his lesson and won't do it again.

Has this senator met President Trump?

Stay with us.

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