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The Lead with Jake Tapper

D.C. Security Heightened Ahead of Inauguration; Interview With Sen. Chris Coons (D-DE); Will Senate Republicans Vote to Convict President Trump?. Aired 4-4:30p ET

Aired January 14, 2021 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:20]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

And we begin today with the politics lead.

President Trump on his way out of office, completely disgraced, impeached again. What will happen next in the Senate remains unclear. President Trump has now been rebuked in the most bipartisan vote to impeach in the history of the United States of America.

And with six days remaining, the nation remains on edge. The FBI has warned of threats across all 50 states from Trump supporters. U.S. intelligence officials fear that the Capitol attack will motivate more extremist attacks. And 20,000 members of the American National Guard are now in Washington, D.C., fortifying the nation's capital against any further threats of violence ahead of Joe Biden's inauguration.

Members of Congress remain worried that there may even have been Republican colleagues or their staffs in their midst who not only incited the terrorist attack, but may have been directly complicit.

Nonetheless, next Wednesday, president-elect Biden will be sworn in as the 46th president of the United States, and President Trump's second impeachment trial will not start until at least Inauguration Day.

Today, Democrats are debating how long the trial might last, whether they will call witnesses, and how to balance a second impeachment hearing and trial with Biden's new agenda, while Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell will not say whether he supports convicting President Trump and plans for that trial remain up in the air.

CNN's Manu Raju is live for us on Capitol Hill.

And, Manu, you have brand-new reporting about what soon-to-be-Minority Leader McConnell is saying behind the scenes.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, he clearly believes that impeachable offenses were conducted by Donald Trump, but he is not there yet on whether Donald Trump should be convicted.

And this view is shared by a number of Republicans in the conference. People, sources who I have talked through the course of the day, they just are uncertain whether they're going to get to that point yet of saying that Donald Trump should no longer hold office ever again, if they were to vote to convict in a trial that's going to take place after Inauguration Day.

Now, a number of considerations are at play. Some Republicans are falling in the camp of, they believe it is not constitutional to go after a former president who has left office. People like Tom Cotton fall into that camp.

Others that are siding with the House Republican claim that it's time to show some unity and going down this route is divisive. And there are some Republicans who are signaling very clearly that they are almost certainly going to convict, people like Lisa Murkowski, who believe the president's actions were lawless.

And Mitch McConnell is in between those camps. He is listening to the various people in his conference. And he says that he wants to listen to the impeachment managers themselves make their case and ultimately to determine how what -- the emotions are like at the time of -- time they're to vote whether or not the emotions are still raw and whether or not people feel that the president deserves to pay a price.

And, Jake, of course, politics plays a key role in all of this. A number of Republicans up for election in 2022 have to -- are considering the blowback they may get back home. But in talking to multiple Republican sources today, Jake, internal Republican polling shows the president's taken a hit from Republican voters in the aftermath of the elections.

But whether that's enough to sway Republican supporters of Trump's who will come to the poll and will actually vote for these Republican senators who are running for reelection come 2022 is a question that some Republicans will consider as they decide to break ranks or join 17 Republicans who are needed to ultimately convict this president -- Jake.

TAPPER: OK, Manu Raju on Capitol Hill, thank you so much.

Right now, the White House is packing up the Trump presidency, sources telling CNN that President Trump is irritated, in self-pity mode, and as CNN's Kaitlan Collins reports for us now, lashing out as he makes the wrong kind of history.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With only six days left in office, sources say President Trump is angry and isolated after making history as the first U.S. president to be impeached twice.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): No one is above the law, not even the president of the United States.

COLLINS: Sources tell CNN Trump relented and agreed to film this video after being pressured by advisers who were worried about the backlash he could face. DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I want to be very

clear. I unequivocally condemn the violence that we saw last week.

COLLINS: Trump didn't mention his role in stoking the attacks or his impeachment, though, privately, he's fuming at nearly everyone.

His latest targets include House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy, after he criticized Trump's conduct.

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): The president bears responsibility for Wednesday's attack on Congress by mob rioters. He should have immediately denounced the mob when he saw what was unfolding.

[16:05:00]

COLLINS: McCarthy isn't alone. Trump is also feuding with his longtime attorney Rudy Giuliani for not doing enough to stave off a second impeachment, and has told staff to stop paying his legal fees, though officials weren't sure if Trump was serious.

As the president stews behind closed doors with nothing on his public schedule, preparations for next week's inauguration were under way, as 2021 Biden/Harris inauguration signs were hung in front of the White House and visible from the residence.

Moving trucks were spotted on the White House grounds today, as the president's staff cleaned out their desks and prepared to leave office.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: Now, Jake, in these final days of the Donald Trump presidency, there are two things we are keeping an eye on.

One is a pardon list that we are expecting you to come from the president. I'm told it's pretty massive. And, of course, we are waiting to see if any of his family members or even the president himself is on that list. That is expected to come, of course, before next Wednesday.

And the other thing is whether or not the president is going to give a farewell address, basically listing his accomplishments and that of his time in office. That's something that aides have been trying to get the president to do, whether or not it's going to be in person or on video, but, so far, the president has been uninterrupted and noncommittal regarding that -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Kaitlan Collins at the White House, thanks so much.

Joining us now, Democratic Senator Chris Coons of Delaware, also a close friend of the president-elect.

Senator, welcome.

An impeachment trial would not start until at least January 20. Have you gotten any more clarity from leadership, McConnell or Schumer, about when exactly this trial could start or how long it would last?

SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): Jake, I don't have more clarity about exactly how long it will last.

But there is precedent for the Senate bifurcating or splitting an impeachment trial, as happened under President Clinton, that allows the Senate to continue doing its ordinary business, while also spending some part of every day conducting a trial.

I think it is urgent that we move forward with confirming president- elect Biden's skilled and senior team for his Cabinet, and that we move forward the details of the stimulus bill that he's going to unveil later tonight in an address.

We are at the worst stage of this pandemic ever; 4,200 Americans died yesterday. And we need to provide urgently another round of relief through stimulus checks, support for rental assistance, extended unemployment benefits, and, in particular, support for speeding up vaccinations.

TAPPER: That's right. Biden will be unveiling, I think, it's a $1.9 trillion proposal for a COVID relief bill that has all those things that you just mentioned, Senator.

In terms of the impeachment trial, there remains so much that we don't know about this attack. It was eight days ago.

Would it make sense for there to be some sort of investigation first, not just by the FBI or the U.S. attorney or the D.C. attorney general, but also maybe by some sort of House and Senate joint special committee that investigates what happened?

COONS: Well, Jake, that's part of the things that are being discussed between my colleagues now, is the tension between wanting to move forward quickly, put the core agreed-upon public facts in front of us, and have a vote, vs. developing the record further, having an investigation that may reveal even more damning evidence of the president and his role, President Trump, and his role in inciting the violence that resulted in the assault on the Capitol last Wednesday.

I don't have a clear picture on the path forward. But we are balancing between making sure that it's a fair trial that has a fully developed record, and making sure that we can move forward with addressing the pandemic, with confirming the Cabinet, and making the kind of progress that Vice President -- excuse me -- that president-elect Biden is calling on us to do.

TAPPER: That's right. President-elect Biden has made it very clear that he doesn't want anything to hold up his agenda in terms of fighting COVID, in terms of getting his Cabinet confirmed.

Does he have concerns about the Senate doing an impeachment trial, when he wants to try to get the country back on track?

COONS: Well, president-elect Biden has said that, now that the House has passed an historic second impeachment vote against President Trump, the Senate needs to do its part of this constitutional exercise.

But he is focused on responding to the pandemic, bringing our country together, and delivering badly needed economic relief. That's what he and his team have been focused on. And so I think that falls to us in the Senate to come up with workable rules.

I am encouraged that Majority Leader McConnell, the majority leader for the next six days, has said he is open to impeachment. We all recognize that there has to be accountability for the heinous actions of last Wednesday.

I think many members of Congress are still shocked and somewhat traumatized by the loss of life, by the violence and the suddenness of the assault last Wednesday, and by real concerns for our safety and for the security of the inauguration at our nation's Capitol, and the threats to our states' capitols this coming week.

[16:10:15]

TAPPER: Have you been talking to your Republican colleagues? How many of them do you think are open to the idea of convicting President Trump? Obviously, a number of them are going to be up for reelection in 2022, and probably don't want to arouse the wrath of Trump supporters.

I mean, do you think that there are 17 Republicans who would vote for this?

COONS: I don't know, Jake, whether there are or aren't.

There have been a number of forceful public statements by colleagues of mine who are Republicans. Obviously, House member Liz Cheney, one of the members of House Republican leadership, gave a concise, forceful, clear condemnation of Trump's actions.

And there have been a number of forceful speeches on the Senate floor and statements publicly by Republicans in the Senate saying that he clearly committed an impeachable offense.

The challenge is whether, after he leaves office, assuming -- and that's an assumption -- that that happens safely six days from now, what their path forward will be then. There's been chatter back and forth about what the options are, what the rules of the impeachment trial might be.

But, as you said earlier, Jake, in the absence of a fully developed record of exactly what happened Wednesday...

TAPPER: Right.

COONS: ... it's hard to predict how many will come down on the side of conviction.

TAPPER: There are other people other than President Trump and other than the people who actually physically went into the Capitol who are responsible. I have heard a number of Republicans and Democrats, of course,

grumbling about Senators Josh Hawley and Ted Cruz, who really opened up the idea of this -- these votes to overturn the result of the election, as they made it a bigger thing with their willingness to consider it, even though Mitch McConnell had been trying to tell them to not do it.

I know some people have called for their resignations. What do you think? Do Hawley and Cruz need to face some sort of consequences?

COONS: Well, Jake, I'm among those members who have called for their resignation.

I think it's striking that the hometown newspapers have -- in several of their communities from their two states, some of their longtime mentors and supporters have spoken out against their actions. And, as you just referenced, Jake, the majority leader, Mitch McConnell, himself, urged them not to move ahead with a groundless attempt at overturning the certification of the vote, something that was unprecedented in terms of that coming after a president refusing to accept the legitimacy of an election, and the consequences in terms of the assault on the Capitol last Wednesday.

I think this is also an issue that is going to face us this coming week, and where there's still going to be a lot of debate about what's the appropriate next steps.

TAPPER: All right, Senator Chris Coons, Democrat of Delaware, thanks so much to you, sir. Appreciate it.

And I'm glad you're OK after that Capitol terrorist attack.

COONS: Thank you.

TAPPER: Preventing more American carnage, more troops protecting D.C. than there are currently in Iraq and Afghanistan.

We're live on the Hill with images you maybe never thought you would see in Washington, D.C.

And as the Trump media echo chamber throws more gas on the fire, the things they're saying that show they learned nothing from the terrorist attack.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:17:31]

TAPPER: In our national lead today: Washington, D.C., looks something like a war zone.

The National Mall will look nothing like it has for past inaugurations. The area is being transformed into a fortress right now, with non-scalable fencing blocking all entry, no JumboTrons, no flags, no crowds, just empty space, and 20,000 armed National Guardsmen bracing for another terrorist attack.

CNN's Pete Muntean joins us now live from outside Capitol Hill.

Pete, describe the scale of what you're seeing out there, as well as the latest threats that have security officials on alert.

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is pretty jarring here, Jake.

I have to show you. If somebody came down to the Capitol for this inauguration, they would first be met by this giant fence that keeps going up more by the minute. I'm 6 feet tall. This is 8 feet tall.

Even if somebody made it over on the other side of this, there would be met with some of the 20,000 National Guardsmen that are descending on Washington right now. The threat here is very real, according to the Secret Service. It is now leading this massive security operation.

And it says that chatter online is off the charts about the potential for more armed protests here in Washington. The Pentagon says it is concerned about improvised explosive devices, pipe bombs, like those that were found at the DNC and the RNC.

And the head of the Metropolitan Washington Police Department says nobody from across the country should come here to D.C. for this inauguration.

I just want to show you one more thing, Jake. This is Pennsylvania Avenue. This is what would typically be the route from the Capitol to the White House and the National Mall for the parade route. Almost completely deserted right now, mostly just spectators, millers-about, people coming by just to check out the spectacle here in front of the Capitol.

This is going to be an inauguration like no other, no bunting, no JumboTron, maybe no crowds -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Pete Muntean.

Very depressing scene out there.

The Justice Department says it has now arrested this man seen carrying a Confederate Flag through the halls of the Capitol, also arrested a man charged with assaulting a Capitol Police officer with a fire extinguisher, and this man seeing wearing a shirt that says "Camp Auschwitz," a reference to the concentration camp.

So far, more than 30 people have been arrested on federal charges related to the deadly riot, the terrorist attack.

Joining me now, former Secret Service agent Jonathan Wackrow. He's also the chief operating officer of Teneo Risk.

Jonathan, thanks so much for being here.

Do you think D.C. is prepared to handle whatever might happen next week? Do you see any holes in the preparations? [16:20:01]

JONATHAN WACKROW, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT: Yes, Jake, I fully believe that the security structure that has been put in place by the Secret Service and their law enforcement partners is adequate enough to address this new emerging threat.

Actually, the enhancements that they put forth the other day, and they continue to do so, are actually really potentially discouraging future attacks. So, everything that's being done right now is to guarantee that safe and secure environment for the inauguration.

But that doesn't mean that these threats are going away. Yesterday, the FBI, DHS, they put forth a joint intelligence bulletin literally to put a button point on, exactly what is the threat of the violent acts that may continue?

And, Jake, this warning should not be taken lightly, because it highlighted that anti-government and anti-authority extremists, coupled with militant extremists, really pose a clear and present danger to this inauguration.

And, literally, we are now seeing the mobilization, one of the largest mobilizations of the military and law enforcement for one single event in history.

TAPPER: When we talk about the threat, how much of this is far right hate groups like the Proud Boys or neo-Nazi groups, and how much is radicalized Trump supporters, MAGA supporters? Because, obviously, we saw both storming the Capitol last week.

WACKROW: Well, that's a great point, Jake.

And what we need to do and the challenge for law enforcement is literally bifurcating those two groups. I mean, political supporters who are out there expressing their First Amendment rights is the foundation of our democracy, and their speech has to be protected.

The difference is that we have groups that are leveraging this moment, they're leveraging the fracture in our political structure and the polarization of politics to leverage their own attack against the government and against authority.

And that's where we have to look at these groups independently and really assess the means, opportunity and intent for them to launch an attack or engage in violent acts against individuals in Washington, D.C.,

But it's also broader than that. And we have seen warnings go out by law enforcement that all 50 states can be targeted. And that's what they have to be focused on right now, is mitigating that threat.

TAPPER: I mean, obviously, there's also the debate, as there always is in this country, between liberty and security. Nobody supports terrorist attacks -- or I used to think that anyway, but nobody rational supports terrorist attacks. But CNN learned that the general public is not going to be allowed

onto the National Mall for Inauguration Day due to security concerns. I mean, where do you draw the line? I mean, in a way, the terrorists win.

WACKROW: Well, listen, Jake, this is a security structure that has to be put in place.

We have to wake up to the reality that we have this clear and present danger in front of us. It's no longer a question of, is there a likelihood that these groups could engage in violent acts? We now know it. We know that they believe in this apocalyptic ideology that wants to take over the government.

So, it's really disappointing, in the moment that we should have a real peaceful transition of government and allow an incoming administration to take this moment to move forward, we're now locking down. It's been described as a war zone.

But, unfortunately, this is the -- this is the world we're living in right now. We have to address the threats appropriately.

TAPPER: Former Secret Service agent Jonathan Wackrow, thank you so much. Appreciate your time, sir. Good to see you.

WACKROW: Thank you.

TAPPER: MAGA media certainly partially, at the very least, responsible for radicalizing many of the people who stormed Capitol Hill, and many Trump loyalists still are not stopping the big lie.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:28:29]

TAPPER: In our politics lead today: With only 10 out of 211 House Republicans voting to impeach President Trump for his incitement of the terrorist attack on the U.S. Capitol, and most House Republicans still refusing to criticize Trump even a little bit, it remains clear that President Trump has a hold still on many members of the Republican Party.

And despite the bloodshed, there appears not only no contrition in right-wing media. They continue to spread lies about the presidential election, the very lies that fueled that deadly terrorist attack, as CNN's Tom Foreman reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARK LEVIN, CONSERVATIVE RADIO HOST: For the second time, there's been an unconstitutional impeachment of an innocent man.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The violent attack on the Capitol last week spurred some calls for peace between the political parties inside, but, outside, the right wing is stepping up the war, commiserating with Trump's supporters convinced the election was rigged, railing at Democrats who point out the vote was fair, and furiously defending President Trump.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He did nothing wrong. He did nothing wrong.

FMR. GOV. MIKE HUCKABEE (R-AR): Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer were given more basic due process rights than President Trump today.

FOREMAN: Many claims are peppered with falsehoods.

REP. MATT GAETZ (R-FL): President Trump rightly pointed out the improper activities of the Biden crime family, and, subsequently, he's been proven right.

FOREMAN: And one representative took the fury absurdly further, claiming the incoming president is to blame for the uproar.

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): So, on January 21, I will be filing articles of impeachment on Joe Biden. The American people need hope.

[16:30:00]