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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Rep. Anthony Brown (D-MD) is Interviewed About Lawmakers Demanding 9/11-Style Oversight Commission to Investigate What Happened During Capitol Siege; Michigan Activates National Guard Ahead of Planned Armed Protests; VP Pence Called VP-Elect Harris to Offer Aid & Congratulations; Despite Promise from Trump Administration, U.S. Has No Reserve of Second Vaccine Doses. Aired 4:30-5p ET

Aired January 15, 2021 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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REP. ANTHONY BROWN (D-MD): I think law enforcement has been focused a great deal on foreign-born terrorists, those who are radicalized abroad or by foreign influences, but we've got people right here in this country adhering to extremist ideology, white supremacy and nationalism, leading to violence right here in this country and we believe that we have to elevate it to a 9/11-style commission.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: You don't just have it in the country, sir. You have it in the House of Representatives.

Let me ask you, eyewitnesses say that some of these terrorists that attacked the Capitol on January 6th -- they seemed to be using military-style tactics during this attack. You're a veteran. What's your view of this?

BROWN: You know, my concern -- and I've had this concern long before January 6th, is that the military and law enforcement has been used by these groups to either recruit members who are leaving the military or, quite frankly, to send their members into the military, into law enforcement to acquire the skills and the experience that help them promote their extreme ideology.

Look, the culture in the military is one of patriotism and service. But that doesn't mean that we're not seeing a rise in extremist views in the military. So we've got to do a much better job in vetting who is coming into the military, who is in the military, to ensure that we're not supporting the training and recruiting of these extremists.

TAPPER: By inauguration day, we expect troop levels in D.C. to be three times higher than the number of troops currently in Iraq, U.S. troops in Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria combined.

They're now actually calling part of Washington, D.C. the Green Zone. As a veteran, how disturbing do you find this?

BROWN: Very disturbing, Jake.

I spent 10 months in the Green Zone in 2004 and 2005. And, quite frankly, as I was in my House office building on January 6th, across the street from the Capitol and I saw the images, the early images that we've seen coming out from the House chamber, I couldn't help but to think how much it felt like I was in the Green Zone.

Now, seeing the 20-foot walls erected, 20,000 National Guards, many of them armed on Inauguration Day, it certainly reminds me, is reminiscent of my days in the Green Zone.

TAPPER: You said -- we should point out -- you're talking about Baghdad. You said that --

BROWN: That's correct.

TAPPER: -- that the members of Congress must be held accountable if they helped incite the riots by continuing to undermine the credibility of the election.

So you're talking about not just individuals like Congressman Mo Brooks, who told that crowd to go kick some ass, but you're also talking about literally the 140 some House Republicans who voted for or furthered these false election claims, even after the deadly riot? What kind of repercussions do you think need to happen? And do you see a difference between, say, what House Republican leader McCarthy did, by just lying over and over and over again and voting to overturn the results of the election, versus Mo Brooks speaking at the rally?

BROWN: Sure. First of all, Mo Brooks, speaking at the rally, I think there should be consequences for that. We impeached President Trump for inciting riot and insurrection at the Capitol. And while Mo Brooks' language may have been different, he participated in the underlying sequence of events that led to an insurrection on the Capitol. We should take a look at that.

Regarding the certification and the objection by Republicans, look, they've got a procedural right to do that. What I appreciated was when a number of senators backed off of the objection after the insurrection. They withdrew their objections to the certification. They had a much greater sensitivity to the damaging effect of what they were doing.

Yet on the House, not only did they not withdraw their objections, but the language they used was as divisive and calling into question the validity and the integrity of the election, as if the insurrection hadn't happened.

That's of concern. While they have a right to object to the certification, I think we should be considering what privileges they enjoy in the House of Representatives.

TAPPER: So what repercussions should there be, what consequences should there be for Mo Brooks and what consequence, if any, should there be for the 140-some House Republicans who kept voting and had been spreading these lies? It sounds like you think there should be an actual consequence for Brooks, and the others we just have to live with that.

BROWN: Look, we have to live with it. I mean, there are other things we can do. We can limit floor time for speech and debate.

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I'm not sure if that's what we should do. And we can also, you know, move legislation that's sponsored by those that did participate in that conduct or in those objections. And not move forward and even assign a committee, legislation that's sponsored by Republicans who objected.

That may be viewed as extreme. It would deprive their constituents of full representation. So, whatever we do, we really do need to be cautious in the steps that we take.

TAPPER: Democratic Congressman Anthony Brown of Maryland, thanks so much.

It's not just Washington, D.C. There are threats across all 50 states from these extremists. In Michigan, new fencing is being installed around that state's capitol, and both the state house and senate announced they were canceling all sessions around the inauguration due to, quote, credible threats.

Joining us now, the Democratic attorney general of Michigan, Dana Nessel.

Dana Nessel, thanks for joining us.

You've warned the Michigan state capitol is ground zero for rioters, terrorists, whatever you want to call them, who might want to take over a Capitol building. Do these new security measures being taken, they do anything to assuage your fears?

DANA NESSEL (D), MICHIGAN ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, yes, definitely. And the coordination between National Guard, Michigan state police, local authorities, I think that they're doing everything they possibly can to ensure that at least this weekend is as safe as possible. What I was most concerned about, of course, is when the legislature meets, because pursuant to Open Meetings Act, you have to make that accessible and open to the public. And they don't even have metal detectors inside the Lansing capitol.

So, you know, incredible important to ensure that firearms are not being brought into the building. Now they've decided to go ahead and cancel sessions all together for the legislature next week. And I think that's good, given the circumstances, but what about the week after that, and then the next week?

Hopefully, the temperature of the country comes down a little bit after Trump is no longer in the White House and Joe Biden has been officially inaugurated. But I think it's going to be a day-by-day process to see what the threat level is.

TAPPER: Yeah, certainly a lot of these security measures and canceling of legislative sessions suggest that at least temporarily, the terrorists, the MAGA terrorists are winning. You also said there's a chance that some of the insurrectionists who stormed the U.S. Capitol last week could be heading to Lansing.

Have you seen specific warning or intelligence that they're preparing today similar, potential attack or siege in Michigan?

NESSEL: Well, law enforcement at every level is monitoring that. Certainly, I think there was good cause for these legislative sessions to be canceled. I will say that they're -- you know, it's important, obviously, that law enforcement be taking every proactive measure they possibly can in the event that we see a large number of people convened upon the state's capitol.

At this point, I'm feeling much more secure about it. Of course, I'm still warning people, if you absolutely don't have to come to Lansing, especially downtown Lansing, don't.

TAPPER: Let me ask you, six men were charged last month in an alleged plot to kidnap the governor, Gretchen Whitmer, last October. Have there been any credible threats made against the governor, you, or any other Michigan officials around next week's inauguration?

NESSEL: Well, I will say that there have been literally thousands and thousands of threats to elected leaders in the state of Michigan. And so, it's a cause of a lot of concern. I personally believe we have to start cracking down as hard as possible on the people who are making these threats and letting people know that it is illegal to make death threats against anyone.

You certainly are not somehow inoculated against that. You're not immune from prosecution. It's not a First Amendment right that you're entitled to in terms of threats against elected officials.

But, you know, certainly we've seen an exponential increase and elected officials around our state have had to concern themselves with increased security. But that's why I think it's just so important that we make sure that those who have been encouraging these insurrectionists and those that wish to do elected leaders harm really change their tune. When I say that, I mean the Republican Party and specifically walking away from Donald Trump, walking away from some of his more hostile rhetoric. And, honestly, stopping completely and reversing course on this whole notion, this conspiracy theory that the election was stolen when everyone knows that that is a complete falsehood.

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It's adding fuel to the fire. The more Republicans we have that stand up and say, you know, I absolutely do not subscribe to these notions, and I do not support Donald Trump, I think the quicker we'll get to a place where we can actually unify our country and we won't see the threats of this magnitude anymore.

TAPPER: That would require contrition and acknowledge of wrongdoing. It would require a conscience. I'm not sure a lot of the people you're talking about in MAGA media and the Republicans in the House are capable of that. But I hope your -- I hope you get your wish.

Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

He who shall not be named. President Trump bans the mention of one past president as he prepares to leave office in utter and pathetic disgrace.

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TAPPER: In our politics lead today, yesterday, Vice President Pence finally phoned Kamala Harris to offer his aid and his congratulations.

Now, while some think that this is worth sending Pence a muffin basket, this is one week before the inauguration and only after those election lies that he tolerated resulted in a deadly attack by MAGA terrorists, terrorists who are actually seeking to assassinate Pence himself.

Still, still the call was a sign that the transition of power will take place in five days even though President Trump continues to reject reality, as CNN's Kaitlan Collins reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Instead of attending the inauguration, CNN has learned Trump will leave Washington early Wednesday following a military sendoff and plans to be in Florida by the time Joe Biden is sworn in.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): Not going to the inauguration may be what's best now, given the situation we're in.

COLLINS: Trump was against the idea of leaving D.C. as an ex- president, meaning he will get one last flight on Air Force One and won't need Biden's permission to use a government jet. Military aides will have two nuclear footballs ready, one that will fly with Trump and one that will be with Biden. Once Biden is sworn in, Trump's launch codes will no longer work.

With five days left in office, Trump is watching his presidency unravel after being impeached for inciting a deadly insurrection on Capitol Hill. He's leaving the White House with the lowest approval rating of his presidency you, after it fell to 29 percent in the latest poll, conducted by Pew Research, which also found that two- thirds of Americans don't want Trump to remain a major national political figure.

LT. GOV. GEOFF DUNCAN (R), GEORGIA: We should never, as a party, let a person be more powerful than our party.

COLLINS: Sources say the president's advisers have casually addressed him resigning but Trump shut down the conversation immediately and banned all mentions of Richard Nixon, who resigned in 1974 before he could be impeached and possibly convicted.

Instead of following in Nixon's footsteps, Trump will face a second impeachment trial, although House Speaker Nancy Pelosi declined to give details on when that trial will happen today.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I find this to be a very emotional time. I said to the members, we're very passionate to our reaction to this assault on our democracy.

COLLINS: As National Guard troops flooded Washington, Vice President Mike Pence has filled the typical role taken by a president during a time of crisis, as Trump has mostly remained behind closed doors. Ten weeks after the election, Pence finally called Vice President-elect Kamala Harris for the first time yesterday.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS (on camera): And, Jake, that is the highest level contact there has been between these two administrations with Mike Pence finally, over ten weeks later, calling the vice president-elect to talk about this. We are told it was a cordial conversation and, of course, that comes as the president himself still has not spoken to Joe Biden, even though he is going to take office and take over the administration from him in just a matter of days.

But, meanwhile, the president did stay behind closed doors but Mike Lindell, who was the CEO of MyPillow, of course, a close ally of the presidents. You'll remember some of the controversial comments he made in the early days of the pandemic. We saw him walking into the Oval Office or into the West Wing, I should say, earlier today.

And a "Washington Post" photographer got a close-up of the notes he was carrying with him. When you zoom in on them, you can see he is talking about the election, things like martial law are mentioned, the words taken immediately to save the Constitution. He is naming that pro-Trump attorney, Sidney Powell, who, of course, spread so many lies about the election. And he also talks about moving Kash Patel, who is currently the chief staff, to the acting defense secretary, to acting CIA. Of course, that means -- that could imply some potential changes that could be happening at CIA, something the president has considered in his final days in office.

But, Jake, if this is someone who met with the president, something we have not determined yet, it does go to show what those conversations could be about.

TAPPER: Just utter lunacy, utter lunacy.

All right. Kaitlan Collins, thanks so much.

Let's bring in our panel.

And, Abby, let me start with you. The guy from MyPillow is carrying documents and talking to president Trump, presumably, about declaring martial law and all sorts of other crazy stuff. I mean, this is not going to be over until January 20th, and even then. These traitors are going to be around.

[16:50:01] ABBY PHILLIP, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. I mean, it's mind blowing what is going on here. A week after a failed insurrection or failed coup attempt incited by this kind of conspiracy theory nonsense, the White House is still inviting into the West Wing a purveyor o these lies. It's shocking at this point that there is no one around.

I mean, I think we know at this point most of the White House aides have already departed, moved on to their next gigs or their next thing. They've left the president to his own devices, and people like the MyPillow guy are filling the gap with all this nonsense about potential last-ditch efforts to declare martial law before he is no longer president. It's ridiculous but should also be outrageous and underscore the degree to which there is no bottom here for this president. We just keep going lower and lower.

TAPPER: And I don't know to what extent it's criminal, honestly. They tried to stage a coup last week. And, Jackie, I mean, the best case scenario, the best thing that you can say is that maybe they didn't intend anybody to kill anybody. They intend anybody to vandalize. Maybe they just intended there to be so much intimidation that the vice president and the House and Senate didn't do their constitutional job.

That's the best interpretation.

JACKIE KUCINICH, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right.

TAPPER: -- we can offer. And here you have martial law being discussed.

General Flynn is still out there, saying all sorts of crazy stuff.

KUCINICH: Well, right. The president is self soothing and probably the most destructive way possible. The people around him that are doing, as reported to "The Daily Beast," presenting him with polls showing dirty Republicans support him, which is true, which is everyone else doesn't and thinks that he should leave.

And so, the comforting of himself should not be a surprise to anyone who has been paying attention. And, obviously, this -- of course, we knew this was going to happen. We just didn't know how. It undermines the message he sent just the other day in that late video about peaceful transfer of power. And that's what he would be focused on.

It's very clear he is not focused on that. He still -- again, self soothing with these lies that caused an insurrection at the United States Capitol.

TAPPER: So, we should note, Abby, these lies, it's not just President Trump's fault, he is the main instigator, he is the main inciter. But it is House Republicans led by Kevin McCarthy and Steve Scalise, Senate Republicans like Josh Hawley, and Ted Cruz, all of the MAGA media, including the Murdochs, all the way to Bannon.

I mean, is there going to be any acceptance of what these people have -- and repentance for what these people have unleashed on the country?

PHILLIP: You know, one of the reasons that it's seeming increasingly unlikely because of what Jackie just talked about. You know, the polls seem to indicate that Republicans are all in on these lies, rank and file Republicans, a shocking number of them believe these lies. And it's because they've been indoctrinated by their own party. And now, the tail is gong to wag the dog. Republicans and elected officials are going to look at these polls and say, see, we can't go back on this now. It's because they started it and created this mess that they're in.

TAPPER: Absolute destruction of the integrity of the thinking of this country.

Abby and Jackie, thanks to both of you.

And you can join Abby for CNN's special reporter, "KAMALA HARRIS: MAKING HISTORY". That's Sunday at 10:00 p.m. here on CNN.

In the health lead, as the Biden administration prepares to take over the vaccine rollout, the Trump administration is facing new questions about its promise to release doses from a reserve stockpile that actually doesn't seem to exist.

As CNN Alexandra Field reports for us now, the supply issues come as the U.S. reached its deadliest 14-day stretch of the pandemic so far.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A promise to get more Americans vaccinated more quickly, seemingly falling short. This week, the Trump administration announced it would release a reserve supply of second doses of the vaccine.

ALEX AZAR, HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: We can now ship all of the doses that have been held in physical reserve.

FIELD: But at the time of that announcement, many of those doses have already been released according to an administration official, meaning there's no big infusion of reserve doses to come immediately. This, as the country nears a million daily vaccinations, a step forward in a still desperate struggle to pick up the pace.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: If you have a dose, give it, and don't be so rigid as to those early designations. Be more flexible.

FIELD: Almost 180 million Americans are now eligible for a shot, according to a member of the incoming administration's advisory board. With the federal government this week urging states to make vaccines eligible to people 65 and older, but just over 12 million shots have been given so far.

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If you are already eligible for a shot, the odds of actually being able to get one varies wildly depending which state you live in.

GOV. JIM JUSTICE (R), WEST VIRGINIA: We needed to act. We needed to move. And West Virginians are pretty doggone smart people and we got it done.

FIELD: West Virginia opted out of the federal government's Operation Warp Speed plan for administering vaccines, instead tapping local pharmacies, state health workers and their national guard. The strategy put them at the front of the pack. As of Monday, they had administered or assigned every dose they had received.

AZAR: If you try to micromanage distribution of a vaccine by job code, you're going to have a lot of wastage.

FIELD: A whopping 18 states have reported administering fewer than 100,000 doses so far. Some, still four weeks later, still trying to work their way through the highest priority groups.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's it.

FIELD: As shots sit in freezers in states that can't move fast enough, average life expectancy is set to go down a year, a country overwhelmed by the COVID crisis.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FIELD (on camera): One of the country's largest vaccine sites opened today in Los Angeles. Several vaccine sites are up and running in New York. The state is warning because of limits to the supply, it could take as many as 14 weeks to get an appointment, if not more -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Alex Fields, stay safe.

And in our series this week on education in the time of COVID, we're going to focus on teachers and the essentially dilemma, in-person instruction could put teachers at risk for contracting the virus, but virtual learning can cause serious educational and psychological setbacks for their students -- as CNN's Bianna Golodryga reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Just days after Houston public schools resume in-person instruction back in October, fifth grade language arts teacher Naseeb Gill knew she had to speak out.

NASEEB GILL: I thought I've been put in a situation where I have to choose between my students or my health.

GOLODRYGA: She told CNN back then that she wasn't the only one.

GILL: I just had a teacher today talk to me and say, I never thought I would say this, but we need to go back to virtual.

GOLODRYGA: Throughout the pandemic, teachers across the country have been on the front lines, helping students academically and emotionally, many serving as social workers and grief counselors.

GILL: I have sewed buttons on shirts for kids. I've brought them food. I have written multiple letters to the United States immigration, begging them not to deport my students.

GOLODRYGA: Many of the educators have battled COVID-19 themselves. Some even lost their lives to the virus.

Yet at the debate over reopening schools has intensified so, too, has pressure on teachers to return to the classroom. Some teachers, like this one in New Jersey, expressing their frustrations online.

We have been screaming into the abyss for months, and no one is listening. Instead of answers, we get a pat on the back and thanks for working so hard, leading some teachers to contemplate leaving the field all together.

GILL: One of my good friends was a teacher of seven years, and he just resigned.

GOLODRYGA: Early evidence suggests schools, especially elementary schools, are not the super spreaders many feared. Cities that have seen increased positivity rates such as Miami and Houston, have managed to reopen schools for in-person learning without a spike in cases amongst students and faculty. The most recent example in New York City.

On Monday, New York state began including teachers among those eligible to get the coronavirus vaccine. Health officials agree that vaccinating teachers should be a priority.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: Ultimately get to the people who are taking care of the children will be less of a burden of transmission within the context of the school.

GOLODRYGA: Today, Naseeb Gill says it's definitely worth a shot.

GILL: It would make me feel safer like, me personally, and then for my loved ones.

GOLODRYGA: As she waits she continues to teach in her classroom but she also continues to worry.

GILL: There's this level of feeling like there's nothing we can do. There's no one who is really listening, and so we have to keep doing it. And you might as well try not to be as stressed out about it, because we're in this situation.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GOLODRYGA: And, Jake, at least one school district is looking to expand vaccination beyond just teachers. Los Angeles unified school district, the second largest in the country, which has been close since the pandemic began, the superintendent said that he would like to vaccinate children as soon as that's deemed safe -- Jake. TAPPER: All right, Bianna, the latest in our series on education in

the time of COVID. Thank you so much.

We want to remember one person of the 390,000 lost to coronavirus in this country, 24-year-old Colten Brown from Edinboro, Pennsylvania. He was working his dream job as a probation officer when he was diagnosed with COVID. His family describes Colten as someone who made other people's happiness his priority.

May his memory and the memories of all the victims of this horrific virus be a blessing.

Tune in to CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION" this Sunday. We got some exclusives for you. Lead impeachment manager, Democratic Congressman Jamie Raskin, incoming White House chief of staff Ron Klain, former Trump national security H.R. McMaster and number two Democrat in the Senate, Dick Durbin. That's at 9:00 a.m. and noon Eastern on Sunday.

Our coverage on CNN continues right now. See you Sunday morning.

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