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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Record U.S. Economic Drop; South Africa COVID-19 Variant Found in U.S.; Interview With Rep. Peter Meijer (R-MI); Republican House Leader Meets With Trump in Florida. Aired 4-4:30p ET

Aired January 28, 2021 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:00]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

We're in a bizarre and disturbing moment in American history, where lawmakers who have opposed former President Trump are not only expressing concern for their safety because of threats from far right groups and radicalized members of MAGA, ones who staged a deadly attack on the Capitol three weeks and a day ago.

These lawmakers are also scared, in some cases, of their own colleagues. Dozens of members of Congress are now asking to use their congressional allowances to beef up their own individual and office security.

And, today, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said for some members of Congress, the perceived threat is coming from inside the House.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): We will probably need a supplemental for more security for members when the enemy is within the House of Representatives, a threat that members are concerned about, in addition to what is happening outside.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Speaker Pelosi saying she's referring to members of Congress who want to bring guns onto the House floor and who have threatened violence against their colleagues.

CNN reported this week that Republican Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia liked a social media comments in 2019 about shooting, shooting Speaker Pelosi.

This afternoon, a prime example of the fears many are feeling, police arrested in West Virginia man near the U.S. Capitol yesterday armed with a handgun and 20 rounds of ammo. Police also say the man, Dennis Westover, had "Stop the Steal" paperwork with him, "Stop the Steal" a reference to the big lie that Joe Biden didn't actually win the election.

He also had a list of senators and representatives, along with their contact information, police say. Social media posts indicate that Westover attended the rally in Washington January 6. It is unclear if he was part of the attack on the Capitol.

In light of that attack that killed five people, injuring more than 100 law enforcement officers and, frankly, tore at the fabric of the United States, these concerns from lawmakers and law enforcement cannot be dismissed.

And the insanity and mendacity that led to the attack, it's also ripping the Republican Party apart, as the GOP struggles with blame and consequences for former President Donald Trump and other lawmakers who pushed that big lie.

Now, today, as the GOP grapples with President Trump's continued influence, House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy, one of the many Republican officials who pushed the big lie, he met with Trump in Florida.

And, as CNN's Jeff Zeleny reports, it's an attempt to make nice with Trump after McCarthy briefly criticized the president for not doing more to stop the attack once it had started.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The American flag is proudly waving today at former President Trump's Mar- a-Lago resort, but the shining sun belies the storm brewing inside the Republican Party.

Kevin McCarthy, the House GOP leader, made a pilgrimage to Florida, hoping to get back into the former president's good graces after angering Trump following the deadly attack on the Capitol.

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): The president bears responsibility for Wednesday's attack on Congress by mob rioters.

ZELENY: McCarthy has been backpedaling ever since, making clear he still sees Trump as the leader of the Republican Party, a view not shared by Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, who hasn't spoken to Trump in more than a month.

With his looming impeachment trial, Trump remains front and center in the Republican Party, even as it faces an identity crisis. In a private call with House Republicans this week, McCarthy admonished his members to stop the infighting, CNN has learned, bluntly saying to "cut that crap out," with "no more attacks on one another."

But he's done little to actually stop it, with Florida Congressman Matt Gaetz, a loyal Trump ally, traveling to Wyoming today to try taking down Liz Cheney, the number three House Republican who voted for Trump's impeachment.

REP. MATT GAETZ (R-FL): If you want to prove that you have the power, defeat Liz Cheney in this upcoming election, and Wyoming will bring Washington to its knees!

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE) ZELENY: The GOP turmoil is playing out as a series of sideshows, none louder than Georgia Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene, who deleted her social media posts after CNN reported she harassed victims of the Parkland school shooting and endorsed violence against Democratic lawmakers.

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): You don't have anything to say for yourself? You can't defend your stance?

ZELENY: The congresswoman, who has promoted QAnon conspiracy theories, was given a plum seat on the House Education and Labor Committee.

Illinois Congressman Adam Kinzinger, one of 10 House Republicans to support Trump's impeachment, said the party is at a dangerous crossroads.

REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R-IL): Well, let's be clear. She's not a Republican. I personally don't think she should have any committees.

ZELENY: A fear of reining in fringe Republican elements has created an opening for Democrats, which Speaker Nancy Pelosi seized on today.

PELOSI: Assigning her to the Education Committee, when she has mocked the killing of little children at Sandy Hook Elementary School, when she has mocked the killing of teenagers in high school at the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, what could they be thinking?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[16:05:22]

ZELENY: Now, while many Republicans were eager to turn the page from the Trump presidency, House Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy is not one of them. Again, he was down for a meeting over lunchtime at Mar-a- Lago with the former president.

We're getting a bit of a readout of that. You can see a picture here of them in Mar-a-Lago. And the former president releases this statement, saying in part this: "They discussed many topics, number one of which was taking back the House in 2022. President Trump's popularity has never been stronger than it is today as and his endorsement means more than perhaps any endorsement at any time."

Now, Jake, a bit of a fact-check there. His popularity is not as strong as it's ever been. But it's an open question how popular he is among Republican primary voters. That is still very strong. So, as this goes forward here, no question, at least in Kevin McCarthy's mind, the Trump party is still the Republican Party -- Jake.

TAPPER: Jeff Zeleny, thanks so much.

Joining us now to discuss, Republican Congressman Peter Meijer of Michigan. He's a Republican. He was among the 10 House Republicans who voted to impeach President Trump this month.

Congressman, thanks so much for joining us.

You're facing some backlash after your vote to impeach. You now have a Republican challenger for your seat. Of course, you won't be up for reelection until 2022. But, still, he's out there. He claims that vote that you can't destroyed trust with your constituents. What's your response?

REP. PETER MEIJER (R-MI): I think the betrayal of trust was what happened leading up to January 6, with the president's oath of office.

But I was watching the segment that you had earlier on, and that was the first I learned of the individual who was arrested near the Capitol with a list of lawmakers. It's just staggering how many folks continue to either try to paper over what happened, try to move on, just say it's been a couple of weeks, let's forget about it.

I'm just at a loss for words, Jake.

TAPPER: Let's talk about the security issues, because I know that it's something that you have publicly expressed.

How serious do you think the threat is? And do you agree with some of your Democratic colleagues that maybe even some of your Republican colleagues are people that are potentially dangerous?

MEIJER: I don't share those views on my Republican colleagues and the fears around that.

I think, if there was any complicity in the events of January 6, we shouldn't jump the gun. We shouldn't jump to conclusions. We need to wait for that investigation to play out.

But we're taking security risks seriously. I think it was my colleague Adam Kinzinger who said it's not necessarily the death threats that are made to you that you worry about. It's the ones that aren't. It's the people who are planning and not saying what they're planning to do.

TAPPER: On the day of the attack, I talked to your colleagues who had served abroad in the military, Kinzinger, whom you just mentioned, and also Congressman Gallagher.

I know you're a veteran as well, having served in Iraq, and then also in a different capacity in Afghanistan. Tell me what it's like being in a Capitol Building surrounded by fencing that, honestly -- I don't say this lightly -- does resemble to me very much a war zone, not the battle part of the war zone, but like a Green Zone-type area.

MEIJER: I mean, it just shows the absolute lack of trust that we have come to as a nation.

The Capitol used to be a place where folks could walk in front of the steps, especially if the Congress wasn't in session. It was supposed to be inviting. It was supposed to be the people's house. And then to have it be walled off because we can't trust that, frankly, the people won't try to overrun it, that the tension has gotten that high, it's dispiriting.

It's depressing. And it's a sad reflection where we are as a country today. And, frankly, we need to rebuild that trust. We need to work to say there are ways of addressing disputes within the political system, within our legal system, because, for too long, we have had politicians who are shutting down any notion of the legitimacy of the courts, of elections.

And that's why you see people take to the streets. That's why you see folks taking up arms. I mean, that is absolutely, utterly unacceptable. And it's on every leader to rebuild that trust, rebuild confidence, and get us back to a place where we can resolve disputes peacefully.

TAPPER: And yet, look what's going on right now, just today, in the Republican Caucus. House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy, who is one of the people who push the big lie, who voted to disenfranchise millions of voters after the terrorist attack based on that lie, he's down in Florida kissing Donald Trump's ring.

And then up in Wyoming, your colleague Matt Gaetz is out there holding a rally against Liz Cheney, Congresswoman Cheney, who is the number three Republican who joined you in voting for impeachment. It seems like a lot of the energy in the House Republican Caucus is, frankly, with the seditionists, with the crazy.

[16:10:00]

MEIJER: If Liz Cheney is the person who suffers the most from the events on January 6 politically, it will be a very sad, sad day for my party.

I have been impressed by her leadership and just the fact that this was a vote of conscience. This was not a vote that was being whipped. And I gave Leader McCarthy a lot of credit for that, that this was a vote that was up to the individual member.

But to see the number of folks that are lining against her solely due to pressure from a base that they, frankly misled -- there were people making the argument, well, we have to vote to overturn this election because our supporters don't believe that it was legitimate.

Well, they don't believe it was legitimate because you were lying to them, because you were playing to those fears.

TAPPER: Right.

There have been social media posts uncovered by CNN and others from another Republican colleague of yours, Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene from Georgia, where she indicated support for shooting Speaker Pelosi, where she pushed conspiracies about the Parkland shooting not being real, about Sandy Hook not being real.

She was just appointed to the House Education Committee, Education. I find it kind of incredible that your party is talking about sanctioning Liz Cheney, but Marjorie Greene seems to be being -- no punishment for her for saying these heinous things.

How do you think the Republican Party should be handling Congresswoman Greene right now?

MEIJER: I think, ultimately, every member is going to be responsible for their own actions and their own words.

But we can't be a party of conspiracy theories. We can't be a party of winking and nodding at some of the worst impulses that we have seen in the darkest corners of the Internet. That's not how you're going to have a party that's trusted to govern. That's not how we're going to win over moderate and independent voters and say, trust us to make decisions about the future of this country.

I mean, that, again, is just a dark path for the Republican Party to go down. And it's one that I'm committed not to going down. And if that means that I'm off on an island with a few lonely colleagues, so be it. I think it's important to stand up for truth. It's important to stand up and stand by our oath to the Constitution and to say there are better ways for us to govern that don't devolve into threats of political violence and to these allusions to just insane theories.

That is not a strong party. That is a party that is nearing its end.

TAPPER: Republican Congressman Peter Meijer of the great state of Michigan, thank you so much.

Hope to have you back to talk about issues having to do with foreign policy and the military and much, much more. Thanks for being with us today.

MEIJER: Thank you, Jake.

TAPPER: The South Africa variant of coronavirus, the one Dr. Fauci said troubled him, well, it's here in the United States. We're going to tell you where and the mystery around how it popped up.

And some of the worst economic numbers since the end of World War II -- the status of President Biden's $2 trillion plan to pull us out of this tailspin.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:16:55]

TAPPER: In our health lead today: The highly contagious coronavirus variant first identified in South Africa has now been found in the United States.

Health officials in South Carolina announced this afternoon that two adults with no travel history and no connection to each other, each of them tested positive for the variant.

And this news comes just hours after Dr. Anthony Fauci said, this is the variant that troubles him, as CNN's Nick Watt reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The more contagious variant first found in South Africa is here, two cases just confirmed in different parts of South Carolina.

DR. BRANNON TRAXLER, INTERIM DIRECTOR, SOUTH CAROLINA DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC HEALTH: There is no known travel history and there's no known connection between the two cases.

WATT: These first documented infections actually happened weeks ago. And all this means the mutation is spreading on American soil. And lab tests of this variant vs. the vaccine?

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NIAID DIRECTOR: It is diminished by multifold in its ability to cover it. It's still within the range of what you would predict to be protective. But I take no great comfort in that.

WATT: Still fewer than 50 million vaccine doses distributed, only about half of them actually in arms.

The administration touts triggering the Defense Production Act.

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president did invoke the Defense Production Act.

WATT: But apparently not a single new deal to boost supply has been signed under the act.

DR. ASHISH JHA, DEAN, BROWN UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: I would like for us to be doing two million vaccines a day, vaccinations a day. We should be pushing our political leaders to do even better.

WATT: The various variants now circulating here also impact tests, says the FDA.

DR. TIMOTHY STENZEL, FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION: There may be a performance difference going forward.

WATT: Testing never quite reached the numbers needed. And now it's falling. Right now, average new case counts are falling all across the country, but still averaging over 160,000 new cases every day.

And those faster spreading variants?

DR. MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, DIRECTOR, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA CENTER FOR INFECTIOUS DISEASE RESEARCH: Are now going to overlay on top of that very high baseline. So, what we can expect to see in the course of the next, I think, six to 14 weeks is something that we haven't even come close to experiencing yet.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WATT: Now, just on our air, the superintendent of schools here in Los Angeles said maybe later this spring schools can open. But, Jake, right now the infection rate is double what it needs to be even for just elementary schools to open. County officials are optimistic. They say, if everyone carries on playing by the rules, we can get that number down. But then what will the unions say, and what will this virus and its variants do, Jake?

TAPPER: Nick Watt, thank you so much.

Joining us now in studio, CNN's chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta. A rare treat to have you here in studio, Sanjay. Thank you so much.

So, health officials say that the two people tested positive for this new variant, the South African variant, that worries Fauci and others have no known travel history, no connection to each either. That seems really troubling.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean there's -- so far, the contact tracing hasn't revealed anybody else that's actually had contact with these people or people that may have actually spread it to them.

[16:20:08]

But almost assuredly, I mean, without the travel history, without any connection, it's out there. And to give you some context, and I was looking into this. The U.K. variant, the first time it was discovered will be one month tomorrow, first case. Now it's in 30 states here in the country. And even now, if you go back and you say, OK, before December 29, when it was first found, they're now finding new cases even earlier than that.

So, it's here. These variants are here. That's not really a surprise, given how contagious and how much travel there still is.

TAPPER: So, we know that the U.K. variant was more easily transmissible. It was more easy -- it wasn't worse for you necessarily, but it was easier to catch.

What do we know about the South African variant?

GUPTA: It seems to have that sort of similar thing, not necessarily more lethal, but more transmissible.

This -- the concern that Dr. Fauci has, others have had is that there's three mutations with this particular variant all around the spike protein. People hear about the spike protein. That's what they're creating the antibodies to.

Start getting lots and lots of mutations around that, that's when you start to say, well, is this thing going to escape the vaccine immunity? So far, it doesn't look like it has. And I think this is important, because you're going to look at these numbers and you're going to look at these variants and say, what is happening here?

But I think one thing that we're starting to see is this idea that just by being more transmissible, over time, it could be more lethal, because you just spread it more and more to vulnerable populations.

TAPPER: And officials from the FDA say that these COVID variants are beginning to impact testing. And they're asking manufacturers to ensure that their tests can detect the virus as it continues to mutate.

Could there be even more variants circulating that we don't even know about?

GUPTA: I think there are.

I was talking to somebody who's a geneticist sort of looking at these sequences last night. And one of the things they point out is, obviously, these viruses mutate all the time. The vast majority of the mutations are inconsequential. They're really not going to mean anything.

But we already have lots of different mutations accumulating, not enough to say, hey, this is a distinct variant necessarily or not.

But I think there's going to be three issues that come up. One is, will these mutate enough where the existing PCR tests are missing it? Possibly. The PCR tests, like, look for these broad areas, so you would have to have huge mutations for it not to catch it anymore.

The second thing -- and I think this is probably the most -- the thing we really got to pay attention to -- convalescent plasma. That's from people who have had the infection and now recovered. The convalescent plasma seems to have less than effect on the South African variant.

The vaccine has effect, but the convalescent plasma doesn't. What does that mean? It means that people could get reinfected potentially now with the South African variant: I had COVID. I'm fine. I'm good to go. But now you get the South African variant. It could potentially start to cause reinfections. We don't know that for sure. But that's something scientists are paying attention to.

TAPPER: Yes, just to be clear, you didn't have COVID.

GUPTA: I did not have COVID.

TAPPER: Right. you were playing a little role there. I got it. I just want -- I don't want anybody to misunderstand.

Tell us about this Novavax vaccine, because they just issued a report about their efficacy of their vaccine.

GUPTA: Yes.

So, we're hearing. I just got it right now with you, close to 90 percent efficacy in phase three trials. I mean, these are extraordinary numbers. We're used to now 90 percent-plus, so 90 percent efficacy in this trial.

And at the time the trial was done, it was done in locations where a lot of these variants were circulating. So, you're getting two pieces of data here. You're getting overall efficacy, but you're all -- because of the time period that this trial was done, you're also getting updated information, if you will, on the fact it also seems effective against these variants. So that's good.

I mean, we're going to have vaccines that come out, and over and over again, we're seeing that despite the fact that these variants are rising, the vaccine is inducing enough immunity to still sort of protect us from those.

TAPPER: All right, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, always good to see you. Good to see you in person.

GUPTA: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: I will talk to you again tomorrow, I'm sure.

GUPTA: OK.

TAPPER: Coming up: Need COVID relief to help pay your bills, to put food on the table? Up next: how it may come down to a battle between President Biden and his own party.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:28:27]

TAPPER: In our politics lead today: a really depressing economic statistic.

In 2020, the U.S. economy shrank the most since 1946. And this is all the fallout from the COVID pandemic. President Biden is currently pushing a $1.9 trillion COVID relief proposal.

But, as CNN's Phil Mattingly reports, that proposal is being challenged by legislators on both the right and the left.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And the first thing I got to do is get this COVID package passed.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): But President Joe Biden's goal of a bipartisan coronavirus relief package may be slipping away.

PSAKI: We're not going to do this in a piecemeal way or break apart a big package.

MATTINGLY: The White House and their allies on Capitol Hill ready to press forward.

PSAKI: Republicans can still vote for a package even if it goes through with reconciliation. There's no blood oath anybody signs. They're able to sign -- to support it regardless.

MATTINGLY: And top White House officials, including the president himself, continue to have discussions with Republicans in search of a path forward.

PSAKI: He wants this to be a bipartisan package. He's listening to Democrats and Republicans -- we all are -- to ensure that that's what it looks like at the end of the day.

MATTINGLY: But Biden has also made clear splitting key elements out to reach a deal is not on the table.

BIDEN: Time is of the essence. And I must tell you, I'm reluctant to cherry-pick and take out one or two items here, and then have to go through it again, because these all are kind of -- they go sort of hand in glove.

MATTINGLY: And Democrats on Capitol Hill are increasingly convinced a deal with any Republicans on Biden's $1.9 trillion proposal is simply not possible, sources say.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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