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The Lead with Jake Tapper

D.C. Security Measures; Interview With Rep. Michael McCaul (R- TX); Third COVID-19 Vaccine on Horizon. Aired 4-4:30p ET

Aired January 29, 2021 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:00]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: His decision leaves no clear front-runner in what is suspected to be a very crowded field of GOP candidates for the Ohio primary next year.

I'm Brooke Baldwin here in New York. Thank you so much for being with me.

Let's go to Washington. "THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER" starts right now.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

And we start today with some potential good news in our health lead. A third coronavirus vaccine could be authorized for emergency use in the U.S. in just a few weeks. This one is from Johnson & Johnson.

The top line, the J&J single-dose vaccine was 66 percent effective in a global trial, which appears less effective then the vaccines from Pfizer and Moderna. But Dr. Anthony Fauci points out that the Johnson & Johnson vaccine is 85 percent effective against severe disease and in the trial kept nearly everyone from ending up in the hospital from COVID.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NIAID DIRECTOR: There were essentially no hospitalizations or deaths in the vaccine group, whereas, in the placebo group, there were. So, this really tells us that we have now a value-added additional vaccine candidate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: There are other advantages to the J&J vaccine. It is cheaper. It only requires a single shot. And it only requires basic refrigeration. No vaccine has yet been authorized in the U.S., of course, for use by anyone under 16.

But there's more news. Today, Dr. Fauci addressed when that could change and when kids can start to get vaccinated, though the new variants of the virus are also causing potential problems, as CNN's Athena Jones now reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) ATHENA JONES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Another COVID- 19 vaccine could soon be available in the United States.

FAUCI: The results really are very encouraging.

JONES: Johnson & Johnson says its vaccine was 66 percent effective overall in a global phase three trial, 72 percent effective in the U.S., and 85 percent effective against severe disease. The drug is delivered in a single shot and does not have to be stored frozen, making distribution easier.

DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: There is real benefit to having a single-dose vaccine and one that can be transported a lot more easily. And, frankly, 85 percent protection against severe disease is really good.

JONES: In contrast, the Pfizer, BioNTech, and Moderna vaccines, known as mRNA vaccines, were shown to be about 95 percent effective, but with those drugs in short supply, doctors say the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, if given the green light, would be a welcome addition to the country's pandemic toolbox.

DR. PAUL OFFIT, CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL OF PHILADELPHIA: Were it me, were I not able to get the mRNA vaccine, and I only had the choice of getting Johnson & Johnson vaccine, I would take it in a second.

JONES: The big question is how well the vaccines protect against the more contagious COVID variants.

DR. MARK MCCLELLAN, FORMER FDA COMMISSIONER: In this clinical trial, no patients who got the vaccine had to go to the hospital and none died, including across all these variants all across the world.

JONES: Those variants a growing concern, as an influential model shows they could worse the virus' spread, adding, in the worst-case scenario, as many as 85,000 COVID deaths by May 1.

FAUCI: This is a wakeup call to all of us.

JONES: Especially given the still extremely high daily death toll, 4,000 just yesterday, but as daily cases and hospitalization numbers slowly declined, a warning from President Biden's chief medical adviser about the president's goal to reopen all schools in 100 days.

FAUCI: That may not happen because there may be mitigating circumstances.

JONES: But the new CDC director says it's still possible, if schools continue masking, smaller classrooms and prioritizing teacher vaccines.

DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, CDC DIRECTOR: In most states, if not all states, teachers should be eligible for vaccination now.

(END VIDEOTAPE) JONES: And just to put all of this in perspective, according to a report from the interagency White House COVID-19 team, more than 1,900 counties in the U.S., home to more than 95 percent of the population -- home to about 95 percent of population, are still considered sustained hot spots.

That means they have a high case burden of COVID cases and are at risk of putting a strain on health care resources, just another sign that this virus is far from being under control -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Athena Jones in New York, thank you so much.

Joining us now, CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

Sanjay, I think the top line that sticks out to a lot of people is that the Johnson & Johnson vaccine is 66 percent effective in a global trial, which is less than the two other vaccines that have already been approved. But you think the number we should be focused on is 85 percent instead.

Explain why.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think there's two reasons, and we can put these numbers up, so people can see what the trial showed.

But the 85 percent basically is, this is the protection against serious disease, the type of disease that might land somebody in the hospital, somebody gets very significant symptoms. That is clearly what people are most worried about. Whenever we have been talking about these numbers, it's the number of infections, the number of hospitalizations, the number of deaths.

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If you can bring down hospitalizations and deaths, that ends up being a really key point. So, I think that we will look at these numbers. We will also see how these vaccines compare to the variants. You see, obviously, in South Africa, it's the lowest efficacy. Almost all the patients in that trial had the variant now that they know, so you're getting an idea of what the efficacy is against moderate disease.

But, regardless, severe disease, 85 percent protection across the board around the world, that's a very good vaccine.

TAPPER: And, Sanjay, it's easy to compare this vaccine, J&J, to Moderna or Pfizer, which are 94 percent effective and 95 percent effective, respectively. But is that a fair comparison?

GUPTA: You know, I don't think so. And this is a bit of a nuanced point, Jake.

But keep in mind that we're not just talking about the vaccine trials, what the vaccine trials have been, but also when they were done. One way to sort of think about this is that this Johnson & Johnson trial was studying these participants at a time when there was more virus that was spreading, and there was more variants.

And what that means is, basically, there was more severe disease out there overall. So this is an 85 percent effective vaccine at a time when the when the disease burden, the pandemic burden was actually higher. So we now -- I mean, this is critical information, 85 percent protective against the most severe part of the pandemic and 85 percent protection against serious disease of the South African variant.

Right now, we have no reason to believe that the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines won't protect us against the South African variant, which is clearly spreading in the United States. But we do know about the Johnson & Johnson one. So, I think that that's -- it's an important point and also makes it difficult to compare.

TAPPER: Dr. Fauci warned today that, until we get enough people vaccinated, the coronavirus is going to continue to mutate, we could see even more variants, such as the one first found in the U.K. or the one from South Africa you were just discussing, spreading across the U.S.

How big of a danger are future, as of right now, unknown variants?

GUPTA: I think that's a real concern.

I mean, we kind of don't know what we don't know right now with these variants. And we have talked about it yesterday on your program, that we're not sequencing enough, so we really don't have good visualization on these variants.

It kind of reminds me, Jake, of the conversation we were having about testing overall. We just didn't know how big the problem is. By the time the first 100 or so patients were formally diagnosed in the United States -- this is last spring -- there was tens of thousands already, in retrospect.

So ,that's the concern that the variants are out there. But if they mutate enough, they may start to escape vaccine immunity, meaning the vaccines don't work as well. It doesn't appear that's the case right now, I don't want to unnecessarily alarm people.

But that is why we have to keep looking for these and making sure we can get enough people vaccinated to decrease the spread, decrease the mutations, and decrease the likelihood of that happening.

TAPPER: And the new CDC director, Dr. Rochelle Walensky, she says we should be treating every new case of COVID as if it is a variant. Explain. And why is that important?

GUPTA: Yes, I heard that as well.

I mean, I think what she's saying, at this point, it's pretty clear that these variants that originated in these other countries are here. We don't know, unless we were actually sequencing these patients. Right now, in the United States, I think about 0.3 percent of the virus that someone comes back positive test, we just say you're positive for that coronavirus, but the actual sequencing to find out what exactly the sequence of that virus was is only happening point 0.3 percent of the time.

So I think what Dr. Walensky is suggesting is that we need to be sequencing a lot more and acting as if this virus could be mutating, so we can be ahead of it. The possibility that some of these vaccines will have to be retooled to basically be able to better protect against the variants is real.

But you don't want to be doing that after the variants have already spread significantly throughout the country.

TAPPER: There is, as of now, no vaccine that has been approved or authorized for use by anyone under the age of 16 in the United States.

Fauci estimated that children could start getting vaccinated in late spring or early summer. What kind of data would you need to see before deciding a COVID vaccine was safe enough for your three kids?

GUPTA: Well, this is really interesting. I mean, what I would want and I think what the protocol will be is, you want to get safety data, clearly.

I mean, that's phase one. You want to make sure that this vaccine is safe in people of a younger age. It should be. I mean, there's no reason why it shouldn't be, but you have got to show that through the phase one.

But after that, as you know, there's typically phase two, phase three trials, which can take a long time. What Dr. Fauci has described and others have described as this idea of bridging trials at that point. It's really interesting, Jake.

So, you basically say, OK, once we show that it is safe, we can now look at the existing phase two and phase three data on these vaccines. Let's say it's the Moderna vaccine or the Pfizer vaccine.

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Look at that data. If phase one shows safety in children under the age of 16, you can basically bridge that data and get something authorized much more quickly. So, that's why -- people said, how could you possibly authorize in a brand-new population of people within a few months? That's how you do it. You would bridge the trials together.

TAPPER: All right, that cannot come soon enough, I know, for moms and dads out there.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thank you so much.

Horrifying new video used as evidence in federal court showing what police saw during the Capitol terror attack, as officers were beaten, kicked, assaulted.

We're going to show that to you, and a viewer warning on that, as the FBI is also releasing new video, hoping you can help catch the terrorist who planted those pipe bombs near the Capitol.

Stay with us.

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TAPPER: In our national lead today, we have some new and, frankly, gruesome police body camera video from the insurrection on Capitol Hill a few weeks ago.

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Insurrectionists seen viciously attacking Washington, D.C., police officers with batons and hockey sticks.

We have to warn you, this video is violent and may be disturbing. The terrorists then go on to yell at police, "I will F'ing kill you."

They instruct other rioters to rip their masks off, off the police men and women.

CNN's Shimon Prokupecz joins me now.

Shimon, have the men scene attacking police in this video, have they been located, identified, charged?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, at least one of them has, an individual by the name of Michael Foy.

That's why this video came out. Prosecutors in Michigan were using it as evidence in a hearing for him. And so they only released this minute-and-20-second clip of this video. There are thousands of hours of video just like this, both from inside the Capitol and then the body-worn camera that law enforcement has been reviewing.

And it just shows how brutal and vicious this attack was. And from what we heard from law enforcement sources very early on is that this video just shows how the officers fought so desperately to try and keep so many of these rioters outside of the Capitol.

There's thousands of hours of this kind of video, Jake.

TAPPER: And, Shimon, we also have today some new information and photographs of the suspect who planted the pipe bombs outside both the Democratic National Committee headquarters and the Republican National Committee headquarters before the insurrection?

PROKUPECZ: Yes, so the FBI releasing new information today saying that the two pipe bombs were actually placed the night before outside both the DNC and the RNC locations here in Washington, D.C. It's a big clue.

Initially, there was some speculation that the pipe bombs were placed that morning as a diversion to try and get officers to leave the Capitol and respond to these pipe bombs. Significant new information here from the FBI. They now believe, obviously, that this was placed the night before, which could tell us that there was some planning, some organization behind this. That is significant, certainly something that the FBI wants to

release. Jake, they don't have much to go on right now. They have doubled the reward. It was initially $50,000. It's now $100,000, because they really don't know who this person is. And so they released some new information about the sneakers this person was wearing and some other clothing items to try and see if they can really identify this individual.

It is a top priority for the FBI, Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Shimon, thank you so much.

We're also getting new information today about the National Guard deployed not just to the U.S. Capitol, but across the country to help support coronavirus vaccine efforts. And now a new draft agreement could see the U.S. military playing an even larger role in distributing coronavirus shots.

CNN's Oren Liebermann is at the Pentagon for us.

Oren, tell us more about this plan.

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jake, this is still in the works between FEMA and the Pentagon for a final agreement as to what the Pentagon's role and troops' role would be in the administration's efforts to administer vaccines.

But, right now, the FEMA request calls for 10,000 troops across 100 vaccination teams. Half of those, 50 teams, would be able to administer 6,000 shots a day. The other three, the other 50 teams, be able to administer 3,000.

So, if this is the agreement, and if depending on is able to get to these sorts of numbers with FEMA that's looking at some 450,000 shots a day. That would pretty much become a very large part of the administration's efforts to administer vaccines and shots and, of course, the fight the coronavirus pandemic.

Now the agreement is still in the works. There is still a back-and- forth between the FEMA and the Pentagon. It hasn't been finalized yet. So we're tracking that.

Meanwhile, the current effort on the part of troops comes from National Guardsmen, some 23,000 National Guardsmen deployed across the country in 38 different states at some 260 vaccination sites, they're administering about 51,000 shots a day. So they too could be a part of this effort, as well as the question of, are they going to use active- duty troops and reserves to try to get to that number that FEMA is requesting and boost the administration's efforts at fighting this pandemic?

Meanwhile, of course, there are still some thousands of National Guardsmen in D.C. as part of the effort and supporting the effort to protect the Capitol. We did learn today that some 2 percent are testing positive for COVID. So, that is also certainly a number of watches, as those troops and those Guardsmen remain here in the area -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Oren Liebermann at the Pentagon, thank you so much for that reporting. Appreciate it.

Coming up: Is the Republican Party eating its own? We're going to talk to one Republican congressman about where his party is headed and what his hopes are for the Biden administration.

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TAPPER: Back now with our politics lead and the continued security concerns in Washington, D.C.

The area around the U.S. Capitol has become something of a fortress, with the acting Capitol Police chief calling for more physical security, including permanent fencing around the Capitol. The Department of Homeland Security has issued a rare threat bulletin.

And this week, an armed man was arrested near the Capitol with election conspiracy papers and a list of lawmakers.

Joining me now to discuss, Republican Congressman Michael McCaul of Texas. He sits on the House Homeland Security Committee. He's the ranking Republican on the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

Congressman, good to see you.

First of all, let me just ask you about your workplace.

REP. MICHAEL MCCAUL (R-TX): Good to see you, Jake.

TAPPER: What do you make of the plans to keep the fencing around the Capitol? Obviously, we want all of you to be safe, but is that too much, do you think, to make that fencing permanent?

MCCAUL: Well, I would make it all threat-based, as long as we have intelligence threat streams coming in, which we do.

And I think we will have that through the impeachment trial in the Senate. I think it's a wise course of action. They tried to break came into my office. And all I had was a baseball bat to defend myself. Thank God the Capitol Police took them down.

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But it was a very dark day for America and a dark chapter.

TAPPER: Congresswoman Liz Cheney, who is the number three Republican in the House, she was one of the only 10 Republicans who voted to impeach.

Now she's under attack by fellow Republicans. Take a listen to what your Republican colleagues in the House Congressman Peter Meijer, who also voted to impeach, what he told me yesterday. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PETER MEIJER (R-MI): If Liz Cheney is the person who suffers the most from the events on January 6 politically, it will be a very sad, sad day for my party.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Do you think Liz Cheney will survive this challenge? And what's your view of her?

MCCAUL: You know, I do.

And Leader McCarthy was very clear that this is a vote of conscience. She did what she thought was right. And I actually think she exercised a profile encourage in doing so.

I have publicly defended her. And I think the leader has been correct in our last conference, really calling for the conference to come together. Let's stop this finger-pointing. Let's stop trying to bring each other down. We need to be united as a party to get the majority back.

And, honestly, we need to be united as a nation and heal as a nation if we're ever going to get past the tragic day of January the 6th.

TAPPER: I have to say I find it kind of unsettling that Liz Cheney is under attack from so many Republicans, while, increasingly, there are folks pushing conspiracy theories and bigotry in your party.

Obviously, I'm not talking about you, but whether it's the Oregon GOP putting out that insanity about how it was -- the attack was a false flag operation, Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene, all these horrific comments that she's made coming to light.

The Republican Jewish Coalition -- I know you have a strong relationship with the Jewish community -- they just put out a statement today saying that they're appalled by her comments, and that they have opposed her previously and will continue to do so.

What should happen with Congresswoman Greene? And are you at all concerned about the direction of your party?

MCCAUL: Well, I'm concerned about the rhetoric. And I think rhetoric has consequences.

I do think the rhetoric led to the insurrection of the Capitol that day, and I called for a Department of Justice investigation into this. And I know they are investigating this.

I find I have no patience for these types of comments, whether it be Omar on the other side on anti-Semitic comments, or whether it be members on my side of the aisle. I know Leader McCarthy is going to meet with her and there are talks of censure.

But I don't think it's very helpful, Jake. I think the leaders of this country need to have an honest discussion with the American people and not perpetuate these conspiracy lies out there, but, rather, tell them the truth.

And I think we need to be honest as politicians and tell the American people the truth, because the more we spin these stories of conspiracy that we know is not true, I think it damages our democracy fundamentally.

TAPPER: But she's -- I don't want to belabor this, because there's a lot of foreign policy I want to talk to you about. But she espouses conspiracy theories.

What accountability, what measures should be taken, if any?

MCCAUL: Well, I think we will have an honest discussion. Obviously, the leader is going to be with her.

But her theories about 9/11 being an inside conspiracy too -- I can go on and on those.

TAPPER: Yes.

MCCAUL: It just perpetuates lies on the Internet.

And the thing that is hard, Jake, is when we go home to our districts and our constituents read this stuff on the Internet, and they believe it's true. I think the people that showed up at the Capitol that day believed that we were going to overturn the election.

TAPPER: Yes.

MCCAUL: And we knew that wasn't going to happen.

And you know what? When they found out, when the vice president said, under the Constitution, I cannot overturn these ballots, that's when the violence started, and the "Hang Pence" rhetoric started with the nooses. And they got very close to the vice president, I must say, with -- very close, in harm's way.

That rhetoric is responsible for the violence.

TAPPER: Today, National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan spoke about President Biden's approach with Russia. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE SULLIVAN, U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: President Biden takes a clear-eyed, hardheaded, practical approach to this relationship. It is going to be challenging and difficult, because Russia poses threats across multiple dimensions.

And part of our inheritance, in fact, is having to deal with how to respond effectively to some of these threats and challenges.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Sullivan specifically mentioned the detention of Kremlin critic Alex Navalny.

I know you're a Russia hawk. What should the next step here be for the U.S.?

MCCAUL: Well, we have to look at human rights, whether it be Russia, China, Iran, North Korea.

That was a major human rights violation that took place. I know the president signed a five-year reauthorization of New START. I wish we had had what's called exotic weapons in there, these high-velocity missiles that can come out of Russia. And, in fact, China as well needs to be brought into -- onto the table to discuss a New START agreement with them.

But I think we have been very tough on Russia.

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