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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Rep. Michael McCaul (R-TX) is Interviewed About China Taking Aggressive Moves Seen as a "Test" of Biden; Biden Wants COVID-19 Relief to be Bipartisan, But Says Deal "Has to Pass, No Ifs, Ands Or Buts"; Schools & Suicides During the Pandemic. Aired 4:30-5p ET

Aired January 29, 2021 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

REP. MICHAEL MCCAUL (R-TX): China as well needs to be brought on to the table to discuss a new START agreement with them.

[16:30:06]

But, you know, I think we've been very tough on Russia. Sometimes the rhetoric didn't always show that, but I don't trust Mr. Putin, and I don't trust the Russians.

And I look forward to working with Tony Blinken. I know he has taken a tough position on this one. On the Abraham Accords, he's been very supportive. And I agree with him on that.

I'm a little worried about the return to the JCPOA, of the Iran agreement and what the ramifications would be for that.

TAPPER: Let me ask you about that because yesterday Tehran announced that they were producing uranium enriched at 20 percent, which is close to weapons grade enrichment levels. This is after President Trump removed us from the Iran deal.

I know you had concerns about the Iran deal, but what do you think the U.S. should be doing in order to stop what Iran is doing right now? Would not at least some sort of opening discussion about a new Iran deal make some sense?

MCCAUL: Well, I think if -- you know, they said even -- think about, they have to come in to compliance with the JCPOA. I seriously doubt Iran will be able to do that. In addition, with Secretary Kerry back in the day, I wanted the ICBM capabilities to be on the table, as well as inspections, Jake, which they didn't open their military sites to inspections. It wasn't transparent.

And we had no verification process. Clearly, that's led to their production of radioactive material now. And if we're going to have discussions, all those things need to be on the table.

One thing is very bipartisan, I talked to incoming Chairman Meeks. And that is I think both sides of the aisle do not and cannot afford to tolerate a nuclear Iran. TAPPER: One last question, sir. In the time since Biden has been

sworn in, China, which I know you focus on a lot, has flown more than would dozen combat aircraft near the self-ruled island of Taiwan, and China passed a law allowing its coast guard to fire on foreign vessels.

Do you think China is testing President Biden right now?

MCCAUL: Oh, 100 percent. They see a new leader. They hope he's going to be softer on China than President Trump was. They're testing his leadership right now.

And I think they're going to get very provocative. Just like when they basically took over Hong Kong without a shot fired, I worry about their military exercises in the South China Sea and the straits of Taiwan.

Taiwan is vulnerable. Taiwan needs to know if the United States Congress supports them. I passed the Taiwan Assurance Act to provide security. I signed off on all the military weapons sales to Taiwan.

I don't think we want a global war over this, but I think China needs to understand that the United States Congress is firmly behind its ally, Taiwan, and we recognize their independence.

TAPPER: Republican Congressman Michael McCaul of Texas, the top Republican on the House Foreign Affairs Committee. Thanks so much. Good to see you.

MCCAUL: Thank you, Jake.

TAPPER: Why did Vice President Harris give an exclusive interview to a local TV station in West Virginia? Hmm, it's the $2 trillion question right now.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:37:11]

TAPPER: In our politics lead, President Biden is pushing lawmakers to move forward on a big, ambitious COVID-19 relief bill and he suggests he is willing to leave Republicans in the dust, if necessary. As Kaitlan Collins reports, that approach is not sitting well with moderate senators, whether Democrat or Republican.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Going out to visit some of the soldiers and sailors that are wounded.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Biden's first full week in office came to a close today with a short flight from the south lawn to National Walter Reed Medical Center. BIDEN: It's an honor to be back.

COLLINS: Following an earlier meeting with his economic advisers, Biden called on Republicans to support his $1.9 trillion relief package.

BIDEN: I support passing COVID relief with support from Republicans if we can get it. But the COVID relief has to pass. There's no ifs, ands, or buts.

COLLINS: But the bill is struggling to get the bipartisan support in Congress the president has called for, and Democrats prepared to move with or without the GOP.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): If our Republican colleagues decide to oppose this urgent and necessary legislation, we will have to move forward without them.

COLLINS: With the Senate split 50/50, Democrats have no room for error and Vice President Kamala Harris, who could break a tie, was seen pitching the bill on local news in states with moderate Democrats.

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The American people deserve their leaders to step up and stand up for them.

COLLINS: With no bill on its way to his desk, Biden has spent his first days in office putting pen to a different kind of paper, signing at least 42 executive actions to push his agenda or reverse former President Trump's. No presidents who came before him also signed executive orders, Biden criticized the move on the campaign trail, telling donors in 2019, you can't do a lot by executive order. You can do some things, but you can't, you need to generate a consensus.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS (on camera): Now, Jake, White House and Democratic leaders are hoping that President Biden could sign some kind of legislation on this COVID relief proposal potentially by March. But, of course, the question is whether or not any Republicans will get on board with it. So far, they are not. I'm told that outreach will continue through this weekend.

TAPPER: All right. Kaitlan Collins at the White House, thank you so much.

Joining us now, former Alabama Democratic Senator Doug Jones. He's a brand new CNN political commentator, making his debut right now, I believe.

Welcome aboard, Senator. Good to have you.

DOUG JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Thanks, Jake. Appreciate it. Happy to be part of the team.

TAPPER: So, as you just heard, President Biden says he wants Republican support for his COVID-19 relief funding bill but that the priority for him is getting it passed. Do you have any concerns? Would it send a bad message if his first major piece of legislation passes with no Republican support at all?

JONES: Well, I don't think he wants to do that. Certainly, that would not set a good precedent.

[16:40:01]

But I think what they're doing now is they're trying to get through this impeachment trial, trying to make sure they can talk through this process. Remember, you know, part of the problem, Jake, we saw in May and the House passed their bill is that so many people were just letting it languish because they thought it was going to go away, it was going to evaporate in the summer and lo and behold it got even worse.

And I think what the administration ought to do, and I think they should be doing this, they need to tie the economic package with the health care package. The messages that go up to the Hill, often tie those two together, because as we're seeing the warning signs from Dr. Fauci, the CDC and others about these new strains, we need to take heed of that.

But Jay Powell at the Federal Reserve and others always tie the health of the economy with the virus and getting the virus under control. I think the administration and Democratic leaders ought to do more of that. Either one on one or in hearings, or even just meetings where you've got both health care professionals and the econ, economists working together to give this message.

TAPPER: So, more moderate Democratic senators, Joe Manchin of West Virginia, and, Kyrsten Sinema of Arizona, they're key votes on COVID relief obviously. The White House has now deployed Vice President Harris to do interviews not so subtly with local West Virginia and Arizona news outlet. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: Got to work with a sense of urgency. So, we're offering the American rescue plan. The president and I feel very strongly that these are the moments when we are facing a crisis of unbelievable proportion that the American people deserve their leaders to step up and stand up for them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Is that the right message to put pressure on Sinema and Manchin to support the Democratic efforts, or do you think it might be ineffective?

JONES: Look, I think that, look, Senator Manchin, Senator Sinema, they represent their folks, and they're going to do what they believe is the right thing to do, regardless of where the messages come and who gives a speech. But the fact of the matter is, there is an urgency, and Democrats have

seen over the months of the summer, the months and months that passed, and the fall, where we just got -- it seemed to slide worse and worse. Now, we're on this brink. And so, the president and Democrats in Congress see this urgency and they need to get their Republican colleagues and the moderate Democrats to see this urgency as well. And again, I think tying that with all we're seeing with the health care issues right now, vaccine rollout problems, new strains of the virus are coming up, tying that to the potential problems that this economy is. We're on a cliff.

TAPPER: Yeah.

JONES: And there is a sense of urgency that tie those together.

TAPPER: Senator Rob Portman is a Republican from Ohio. He spoke with "The Dispatch" about a number of issues. One of them was about unity, saying we should be concerned. He said, quote: It's entirely contradictory for Biden to say in one hand on the inaugural address you're looking for unity and bipartisan outreach; on another hand, propose something at this level of $1.9 trillion and poison the well. That means Biden can either have a $1.9 trillion, and propose to do it under a process that jams Republicans and unnecessarily poisons the well.

That makes me think that Biden can either have a $1.9 trillion bill or he can have a bipartisan bill but he can't have both. Do you agree?

JONES: I don't disagree with that. Any time the president, President Biden, President Trump, any proposal that comes from the administration is always their proposal, but it's always a work in progress. I mean, Joe Biden did spend 50 years in public service because he was not willing to listen to the other side and take a "my way or the highway" approach. He will absolutely do that. If that means compromising on certain areas, I think he will be willing to do that.

I don't see that coming from the administration. There needs to be relief. But they need to get some Republican buy-in as well. I think that's still possible. It just will not -- it's got to be done over the next couple of three weeks or month, not just in the next few days.

TAPPER: How much do you think they should be willing to compromise? How low? Because obviously, that's one of the big, compelling issues for Republicans like Rob Portman, how low should they be willing to go in terms of how big the bill is price-wise?

JONES: I don't know the answer to that, Jake. I wish I did. I was always in favor of a bigger package when I was in the Senate because I believed the American people needed it. I think they need it now.

And again, it really depends on those messages that are going forth. Not the dueling press conferences or speeches back and forth but the conversations that they'll be having individually very soon, up on the hill, both in public and in private. TAPPER: All right. Former Senator Doug Jones of Alabama, thank you so

much. And welcome to the team.

JONES: Thanks, Jake. Great to be with you.

TAPPER: Virtual school affects so much more than our children's education.

Up next, the sometimes devastating, even deadly impact that all this isolation can have on a child.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our health lead today, continuing with our series on education in a time of COVID -- as much as remote and virtual learning may have been deemed necessary for our children and safety in schools, there are, of course, heartbreaking and even deadly consequences having to do with the mental health of our kids, isolated, away from friends, denied social interactions.

[16:50:03]

It's been almost a year since many children have seen the inside of a classroom and in the nation's fifth largest school district, 19 student suicides, 19 have been reported in just the last nine months.

CNN's Bianna Golodryga brings us now the story of one family from Maine who lost their 16-year-old.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Always had a smile on his face.

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Sixteen-year-old Spencer Smith was looking forward to playing football, but when his high school team announced a scaled-back season due to COVID-19, family and friends began to notice a scaled-back Spencer.

JAY SMITH, SPENCER'S FATHER: He said I don't want to be there. We let him stop. I think he missed it, being with his teammates.

GOLODRYGA: Like so many American students, Spencer struggled with remote learning.

SMITH: He was always on the honor roll. And this was because of the online learning. He was struggling. We noticed that he wasn't working out. He was no longer riding his bike.

GOLODRYGA: Spencer died by suicide December 4th.

SMITH: My wife texted, it looks like Spencer overslept again. I ran down the stairs, knocked on the door. No answer. So I open the door and I saw him hanging there. I asked, Spencer, why?

These are all the cards that have been received.

GOLODRYGA: The Smith family tragedy has become a recurring one for too many American families. Why it is difficult to directly link an increase in suicides to school closures, the CDC reports there was an increase in the number of children's mental health related E.R. visits in 2020 compared to 2019.

KATRINA RUFINO, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF PSYCHOLOGY, UNIVERSITY OF HOUSTON: They see their parents struggling financially because of the pandemic, or struggling to figure out child care. Combine that with the social isolation of not being in school, not getting to participate in the extracurricular activities that brought them joy.

GOLODRYGA: No community has been hit as hard as Las Vegas' Clark County School District, the nation's fifth largest. 19 student suicides have been reported over the last nine months, more than double the number reported in 2019. The youngest student just 9 years old, according to the district.

JESUS F. JARA. CLARK COUNTY SUPERINTENDENT: It's heartbreaking as a superintendent when you lose a child. It's heartbreaking as a leader.

GOLODRYGA: Jara says signs of trouble began in early fall when an electronic warning system programmed to detect mental and emotional struggles began to show an increase in activity.

JARA: Kids are googling or they are surfing how to commit suicide. You get alerts. You get four or five a day.

GOLODRYGA: Getting children back in the classroom became his priority.

JARA: I felt that as the leader that I needed to do what I can, and I need to do what I can to get our kids in our campus.

GOLODRYGA: The Clark County school board this month green lit a plan for in-person learning in March for pre-K to third grade.

JARA: I do think they're working really hard. But is that face to face interaction, you can't take for granted a loud lunch room.

SMITH: This is all Spencer's weights he went out and bought.

GOLODRYGA: For Spencer Smith's family, things they will never take for granted again is endless.

SMITH: Check on them, no matter how old they are. And always give them a hug and let them know how proud you really are of them.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GOLODRYGA (on camera): Jake, that was such a hard interview to have. The Smith family wanted other families to know that it is so important to talk to children. And that is why child psychologists want children to be back in school. There is a program that goes into effect any time there is a suicide at a school where therapists talk to children to prevent further suicides and cluster suicides.

Without schools being open, many parents are helpless. Many don't want to approach the subject saying they think they will put the idea of suicide in their heads. Therapists say that is not true. They should talk to them, hug them and ask them questions.

TAPPER: All right, Bianna. That was a very important story. Thank you so much.

And to our viewers, if you or anyone you know is contemplating suicide, do not do it. It is not the solution. Please call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline. It's 1-800-273-8255, 1-800-273- 8255. You can also text "home" to 741741. Text "home" to 741741. It is never, never the answer.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:59:37]

TAPPER: Today, we want to remember one of the more than 435,000 lives lost to coronavirus in the U.S.

Fifty-four-year-old Chris Mertz, captain of Rancho Santa Fe California Fire Protection District.

Mertz devoted his life to public service, seen here after responding to the World Trade Center after 9/11.

May his memory and the memory of all those lost to this cruel pandemic be a blessing.

Be sure to tune in Sunday "STATE OF THE UNION." My co-anchor Dana Bash will talk to Brian Deese, chief White House economic adviser, Democratic Senator Elizabeth Warren, Republican Senator Rob Portman and Arizona Governor Doug Ducey.

It's at 9:00 a.m. and noon Eastern on Sunday.

Our coverage on CNN continues right now. I'll see you on Monday.