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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Internal Republican Feud; Biden Administration Announces Vaccine Shipments to Pharmacies; Trump's Impeachment Defense Strategy. Aired 4-4:30p ET

Aired February 02, 2021 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:00]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Let's go to Washington. "THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER" starts right now.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: OK. Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

And it's Groundhog Day. Donald Trump is preparing for his impeachment trial. Now we're finally getting the first look at the arguments from both sides in this second trial of the now former President Trump.

In a legal documents sent out to the news media this afternoon that misspelled the word "united" in United States, President Trump's lawyers argued that Trump cannot be impeached because he's no longer in office. They say he was simply exercising his First Amendment rights when he spread the big lie that the election was stolen or fraudulent, and nothing Trump said, they argue, nothing was intended to incite the violent insurrection that his supporters staged after he told them to go to the Capitol and fight because the election was being stolen from them.

Trump lawyers also argued that Trump never intended to interfere with the electoral vote count at Congress that day, despite the fact that President Trump said he hopes Vice President Pence -- quote -- "comes through for us" on the morning of the electoral vote confirmation, and on the day before the count tweeted -- quote -- "The vice president has the power to reject fraudulently chosen electors," which is not true, but he did tweet that.

The House Democratic impeachment managers argue that President Trump over months and months created a powder keg and then lit a match, writing in part -- quote -- "President Trump's responsibility for the events of January 6 is unmistakable. If provoking and insurrectionary riot against the joint session of Congress after losing an election is not an impeachable offense, it is hard to imagine what would be" -- unquote.

As CNN's domestic correspondent, Jim Acosta, now reports for us, the arguments set the stage for the kickoff of the trial one week from today.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF DOMESTIC CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Donald Trump's impeachment lawyers are trying to build a wall of their own, separating the bloody siege at the Capitol on January 6 and the then president's words before the riot.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We will stop the steal.

ACOSTA: In its response to the impeachment allegations brought by House Democrats, the Trump defense team writes: "It is denied that the 45th president engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the United States," adding: "The 45th president exercised his First Amendment right under the Constitution to express his belief that the election results were suspect."

DAVID SCHOEN, TRUMP IMPEACHMENT ATTORNEY: This is a very, very dangerous road to take with respect to the First Amendment, putting it risk any passionate political speaker, which is really against everything we believe in, in this country.

ACOSTA: As for Trump's instructions to the crowd to -- quote -- "fight like hell":

TRUMP: And if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore.

ACOSTA: His lawyer stated: "It is denied that the phrase, 'If you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore,' had anything to do with the action at the Capitol, as it was clearly about the need to fight for election security in general."

In their filing, which misspells United States on the first page, Trump's attorneys insist he never tried to subvert the certification of the election results. But that's not true, as he pressured state election officials.

TRUMP: So, what are we going to do here? I only need 11,000 votes. Fellow, I need 11,000 votes. Give me a break.

ACOSTA: Even his vice president to do his bidding.

TRUMP: And if you're not, I'm going to be very disappointed in you.

ACOSTA: House Democrats plan to use clips of Trump's speech, as well as comments made by his violent supporters, to prove the former president instigated the riot, writing: "If provoking and insurrectionary riot against a joint session of Congress after losing an election is not an impeachable offense, it is hard to imagine what would be."

As for the claim made by Trump's lawyers that he can't be tried after leaving office, the Democrats counter: "There is no January exception to impeachment or any other provision of the Constitution."

Still, some Democrats worry this Trump trial will end like the last one. SEN. TIM KAINE (D-VA): I'm very worried about going through this

trial and having the punchline at the end being Trump acquitted again.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA: Now, Trump clearly won the battle with his own lawyers over whether to include the ex-president's bogus claims that the election was stolen from him. Trump advisers say he remains obsessed with that big lie, even as his own pollster has concluded the former president lost because, in part, he was so dishonest -- Jake.

TAPPER: Wow, who would have thought?

ACOSTA: Who would have thought?

(LAUGHTER)

TAPPER: Jim Acosta, thanks so much.

Let's discuss.

And let's start with this key question of constitutionality.

Preet Bharara is with us, as well as Kaitlan Collins.

Preet, Trump's team says the Constitution specifies impeachment for the president, and he's no longer the president. Democratic House impeachment managers say there's no free pass to commit crimes near the end of a term. There's no January exception to impeachment.

But, Preet, I know most constitutional scholars agree with the Democrats that a former official can be impeached, but, historically, I don't think one has ever been convicted. Right?

PREET BHARARA, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: I think that's correct.

The historical precedent is on the side of the Democrats. There's another important fact here that distinguishes this from a case of an impeachment trial that occurs after someone has left office.

[16:05:01]

In this case, the first phase of impeachment, the bringing of the article of impeachment and the adoption of it by the House, did happen when Donald Trump was still in office. It was a proper and appropriate impeachment of a sitting president, if you think that's an important argument, which mostly people don't think it is.

But, in this case, that was done legitimately and constitutionally. And then the Constitution says that, thereafter, the Senate shall have the sole power to try all impeachments. And so I think that the weight of the argument is on the Democrats' side.

But it probably doesn't matter, because we already had a vote in the Senate on this question. And 55 senators, including five Republicans, voted in favor of the constitutionality of proceeding with this trial even though Trump is out of office.

TAPPER: Kaitlan, Democrats cite in their arguments that the words that the mob heard from President Trump before they stormed the Capitol mattered and affected -- take a listen to just one of those moments.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We fight like hell. And if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So, fight like hell, fight like hell, in the context of the president saying, stop the steal, stop, the steal.

Now, the Trump team is trying to argue that specific part was about election security in general and didn't have anything to do with inciting the attack on the Capitol. And it is true that fight is a common word in politics. But this wasn't just this morning, right? This had been going on for months.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, and they also ignored that, during that same speech, he told the people who were in attendance to walk down to the Capitol, saying he was going to walk with them there, instructing them multiple times, even saying which path to use to get to the Capitol.

So, they ignore that in their filing. But, basically, what his attorneys are trying to argue in here is that the president was under this belief that he actually did not win -- or that he actually did win the election, and, because of that belief, he was right to use his free speech to argue that the results of the election were suspect.

But they completely ignored how, for months, he was really laying the groundwork for this, not just raising questions about the legitimacy of the results, but outright saying that they were not real and that they were fraudulent, and that basically his supporters had been scammed out of a victory.

And so he had been inciting them for months, not just that day of the speech, which is what you have seen a lot of his allies point to, ignoring what he had been saying on the road, in speeches from the White House and on Twitter for several weeks.

TAPPER: And, Preet, let's talk about that, because Trump's team also says in their filing of President Trump's lies -- quote -- "The 45th president exercised his First Amendment rights under the Constitution to express his belief" -- belief -- "that the election results were suspect. Insufficient evidence exists upon which a reasonable jurists could conclude that the 45th president's statements were accurate or not, and he therefore denies they were false" -- unquote.

So, obviously, this big lie about the election haven't been stolen is utter crap. And it's been found as such by dozens of courts, election boards, everybody who is credible. But there is this issue in the law of mens rea, right, the defendant's state of mind.

And as George Costanza once said, it's not a lie if you believe it.

Does it matter if Donald Trump believed it?

BHARARA: No, I don't think so, because he wasn't just expressing his view of what the election results were, whether they were proper or not.

And Kaitlan's absolutely right. You have to look at the context of all of this. And, by the way, I think the House managers did an excellent job in laying out over dozens of pages the narrative.

Remember, Donald Trump was not just complaining about the election from the date of the election onwards. He was taking action through his speech by calling up the secretary of state in Georgia, by trying to meet with officials in Michigan, by telling his vice president that he wanted him to take a particular action.

So, all along the way. Trump wasn't just whining about the election. He was trying to get people to do things to overturn the election, up to and including the rally on January 6.

So, looked at against the backdrop of all the things he was trying to get other people to do, it is, I think, very, very foreseeable, and you can make the argument for this in the impeachment trial, that Donald Trump knew he was riling up a crowd to do what? Not just to bemoan the results, not to just complain, but do something about them, because his last clear chance for a nonviolent way to change the election -- or a non-forcible way to change the election had expired, when his own vice president chose not to do that.

TAPPER: Yes.

BHARARA: There was also intelligence that was being collected on this point too that there was potential violence. So he knew what he was doing. He was asking them to act. That's not protected by the First Amendment.

TAPPER: Right.

And he wasn't necessarily -- I mean, the most charitable interpretation is that he was asking them to go to Capitol Hill to intimidate people to overturn the elections, not commit acts of violence.

But, I mean, Kaitlan, it's in the eye of the beholder at a certain point. I mean, we'd been all covering for months, this is not true, this is not true, this is going to result in somebody getting hurt. You had Georgia Republican election officials pleading for the president to stop. He wouldn't stop.

COLLINS: Yes, that's right. He wouldn't.

And so a lot big question of this is the legal team also that's representing the president here, because look what happened over the weekend. We found out Saturday night his entire election team -- or his entire legal defense team was leaving.

[16:10:00]

This is a hastily arranged defense that we got from the president today in this brief that they had to file. They had a deadline by noon to do so.

And, look, I mean, they misspelled United States in this. That really shows you the level of how last-minute all of this is. Really, more doesn't need to be said.

But we should note, a key reason that we were told part of that legal team left on Saturday was because the president wanted them to argue his bogus claims about the election.

And, of course, they did not want to. They wanted to focus on the constitutionality argument of it. That's what you see made in this brief. And that's what you will see next week.

TAPPER: And, notably, the legal document from his lawyers refers to him as the 45th president, not the former president, still feeding this delusion.

Kaitlan Collins, Preet Bharara, thanks so much.

The Biden administration just announced it will send vaccines directly to pharmacies across the U.S., but there are a lot of questions about if this is going to speed up shots going into arms.

And then why a conspiracy theory around baseball legend Hank Aaron is now linked to one community's vaccine fears, keeping some from going to get that much-needed shot.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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TAPPER: In our health lead today: the Biden administration announcing today it will soon send COVID-19 vaccines directly to retail pharmacies around the country.

And, as CNN's Erica Hill reports, this could be critical in getting more Americans vaccinated faster.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ERICA HILL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Local pharmacies now next in line to administer vaccines.

JEFF ZIENTS, WHITE HOUSE COVID-19 RESPONSE COORDINATOR: This will provide more sites for people to get vaccinated in their communities. And it's an important component to delivering vaccines equitably.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Good afternoon, folks. HILL: The Biden administration will begin shipping directly to

pharmacies next week, part of a long-promised plan to expand access.

CVS says it's ready in 11 states, Walgreens announcing plans for 14 states and cities and Puerto Rico.

While the overall pace is getting better -- nearly two-thirds of distributed doses are now in arms -- supply remains a hurdle. This site in Phoenix can accommodate 10,000 to 12,000 shots a day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm just trying to do my part.

HILL: But, for now, there's only enough vaccine for 500 a day.

DR. CARA CHRIST, ARIZONA DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH SERVICES: What we're hearing is that we're going to be at about this same level for the next few weeks.

HILL: Sixteen lanes up and running at the Texas Motor Speedway.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's very impressive.

HILL: The state's largest drive-through vaccination site, where officials say they can process 1,000 people an hour.

MATT RICHARDSON, DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC HEALTH, DENTON COUNTY, TEXAS: We do know that we have several thousand second doses that are coming due, and so we will be allocated those second doses.

HILL: Moderna asking the FDA for permission to increase the number of doses in each vial from 10 to 15.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you can relax this time.

HILL: A new study suggests just one dose may be enough for people who already had the virus, but:

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NIAID DIRECTOR: Previous infection does not seem to protect you against reinfection, at least with the South African variant.

HILL: Prompting new urgency.

DR. PETER HOTEZ, BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: We have to deliver 500 million immunizations between now and late spring, early summer to get ahead of these variants, and it's going to be tough.

HILL: A drop in new cases, hospitalizations and positivity rates prompting some areas to loosen restrictions on indoor dining.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It feels good. It's nice to be out.

HILL: Even extending bar hours.

JOSHUA PEMBERTON, NASHVILLE UNDERGROUND: What it allows us to do is hire more people and bring more of our employees back to work. HILL: Though experts warn this reprieve may not last.

DR. ASHISH JHA, DEAN, BROWN UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: The variants are here. They're circulating, and they are going to cause a large spike in cases.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HILL: You know, we have talked a lot in the last 24 hours about the impact of the weather on vaccination sites in the Northeast. Here in New York City and in New York state, many of the sites remaining closed for a second day. Most are expected to open tomorrow, Jake.

As for who's going to get those vaccines, they say first and most important is to take care of all of the canceled appointments. New York City won't be scheduling any new appointments until they can get through those -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Erica Hill, thank you so much.

Joining us now, CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

Sanjay, I want to start with the White House's launch of this federal pharmacy program. They say it will ship the vaccines directly to pharmacies around the country. What does this mean for people out there who want to get vaccines?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I think this hopefully will make it easier for people to get vaccines.

I mean, pharmacies, typically, neighborhood pharmacies are a place that people know, along with their own primary care doctors. Having the vaccine in those pharmacies, and hopefully, ultimately, having a steady supply, is going to make a difference.

We can show you the numbers; 10.5 million doses per week is now what the states are being promised overall. But there's going to be an additional million doses to the federal pharmacy retail program. That number, a million, is obviously not a big number.

I think the hope is, the expectation is that that will start to expand. Remember, Jake, some of the big pharmacies have been largely focused in the month of January at least, on taking care of long-term care facility residents. Now, hopefully, they can shift their attention to everyone else.

TAPPER: And, Sanjay, Dr. Fauci is warning that people who have already had COVID-19 could be at risk for reinfection, especially if the variant virus strains become dominant.

We can see those variants have been identified all over the U.S. right now. What's the potential impact of that?

GUPTA: Well, this is a concern. I mean, these variants are -- the viruses are different enough that

even if you have antibodies from having been previously protected, it doesn't appear that those antibodies completely protect you from becoming infected again.

Do they protect you enough so that you don't get that sick? Perhaps. If it's just that you're getting infected, but you're not getting sick, that would obviously be an important distinction to make, but we don't know that yet.

We can tell you that, if you have been previously infected, you're less protected. If you get the vaccine, you're going to be more protected. And we can show you some of the numbers. Novavax, Johnson & Johnson, those are some of the ones that are currently finishing up their trials.

Johnson & Johnson's going to be applying for emergency use authorization. You can see that, when it comes to South Africa, for example, in Johnson & Johnson, 57 percent protective against moderate disease.

[16:20:08]

But, Jake, that bottom line, I'm going to keep coming back to this, 85 percent protective against severe disease overall.

So, the equation is, look, people are still getting infected. But if they're not getting as sick, not as likely to be hospitalized or die, that's still obviously a tremendous benefit. You wouldn't want people to get infected in the first place. But there's still protection from these vaccines. And that's why we got to get them out quickly.

TAPPER: And, Sanjay, yesterday, you suggested, with caveats, that there may be some merit to this suggestion that all those second vaccine doses could instead be used as first vaccine doses, so as to get as many people vaccinated as possible.

Fauci is also warning today that that strategy might lead to more mutations. Is that a risk willing -- that we should be willing to take?

GUPTA: This is a provocative issue, Jake. And it's -- there's a lot of strong opinions on this on both sides.

What I will tell you is -- I don't need to tell you, but we are in the middle of a public health emergency. We want, obviously, to always collect the best data that we can. But we can't -- we didn't have -- shouldn't have had to wait for data on masks, for example, in order to encourage people to start wearing masks.

I think we know that there's a fair amount of protection that comes from a single dose. And the amount of vaccine that's going to continue to increase in terms of its being distributed to the states should more than account for second doses and to get new people their first doses as well. I mean, we're in a public health emergency. If you can give as many

people protection as quickly as possible, especially people who are at risk of getting really sick and dying, people over the age of 65, that seems to be the most important thing.

I have talked to about a dozen people about this over the last couple of days. And I think there's an increasing drumbeat, Jake, to say, let's get the first doses out, do not hold doses back, we're in the middle of an emergency here.

TAPPER: All right, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks so much. Appreciate it, as always.

Decision time looming for Republicans: Side with a conspiracy theory- spewing congresswoman or with the number three House Republican leader, who voted in favor of impeachment.

Now Republican senators are weighing in on the future of the party. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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TAPPER: In our politics lead: a rather sharp quote from South Dakota Republican Senator John Thune. He's the number two Republican in the Senate.

He said -- quote -- "The House Republicans are going to have to decide who they want to be. Do they want to be the party of limited government and fiscal responsibility, free markets, peace through strength and pro-life? Or do they want to be the party of conspiracy theories and QAnon? And I think that is the decision they have got to face. It's a big distraction for them right now, and not in a good way" -- unquote.

That's John Thune. And it's not just a theoretical discussion. House Republicans have to decide whether to punish a conspiracy theorist and bigot, Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene, spewer of deranged and offensive nonsense, whose views Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell condemned as a cancer yesterday.

And House Republicans also will decide whether to oust from her leadership position, Republican Congresswoman Liz Cheney because she voted to impeach President Trump for inciting that deadly insurrection.

Let's get straight to CNN's Ryan Nobles, who is on Capitol Hill.

And, Ryan, starting with Congresswoman Greene this afternoon, we have seen a wave of Senate Republicans who now seem very willing to strongly criticize her insane views.

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, Jake.

Many of these Republicans following the lead of the Senate minority leader, Mitch McConnell, who was very strong in his condemnation of Marjorie Taylor Greene last night.

But what is interesting about these Republicans is that, for right now, at least, they're all on the Senate side. They really play no role in whether or not she continues to serve in the House or serve on these key committees that she is already a part of.

And we should also point out that it's not an exhaustive list. There is no doubt many Republican senators that have come out in opposition of some of the things that she said, but she is also finding some support, like South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): I rode down with her going to Georgia, and had a very pleasant experience.

Are these postings accurate? I want to hear from her. Before I judge what to do about her, I want to know what the facts are. If these are not accurate postings, they have been manipulated, I'd like to know that.

If they are accurate, do you still hold these beliefs?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBLES: So, Graham says that he wants to hear from Greene herself. That is also what the House minority leader, Kevin McCarthy, has said.

He's going to meet with Greene later today to talk about her future. The question is whether or not she's going to come out and officially walk back some of these more insane conspiracy theories that she's endorsed.

She's subtly attempted to do that over the past several months. But, Jake, if in any way Republicans are going to back away from some of their complaints about her, she's going to have to take a much bigger step forward than she has in the past.

TAPPER: These are videos of her, videos of her being a 9/11 truther, doubting Sandy Hook, doubting Parkland.

I mean, that's just such a ridiculous statement from Graham.

Senate Republican Leader McConnell is also throwing his support behind Congresswoman Liz Cheney for her leadership position in the House. Republicans are also expected to discuss her future tomorrow.

NOBLES: Yes, that's right, Jake.

It's not an exact comparison here. It's not really Greene or Cheney.

[16:30:00]