Return to Transcripts main page

The Lead with Jake Tapper

Former Trump Adviser Tells CNN That Trump Will Not Testify During Senate Impeachment; Sooon: House Will Vote Whether or Not Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene Will Keep Her Committee Assignments; Greene Takes to the House Floor to Defend Herself. Aired 4-4:30p ET

Aired February 04, 2021 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:00]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: I'm Brooke Baldwin here in New York, thank you for being with me. We'll see you back here tomorrow. In the meantime to Washington we go, "The Lead" with Jake Tapper starts right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN BREAKING NEWS.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to "The Lead." I'm Jake Tapper. We are following two big breaking stories in our "Politics Lead" today.

One, a former Trump adviser just told CNN that former President Trump will not testify after Democratic House impeachment managers this afternoon requested that he do so, testify either before or during his Senate impeachment trial set to begin Tuesday.

In addition, we expect to see a vote on the floor of the House of Representatives soon to determine whether or not Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene, the Republican who's been in the news lately for her bigoted and deranged conspiracy theories, whether she should keep her committee assignments.

This afternoon, Congresswoman Greene took to the floor of the House and tried to defend herself from charges that she spread lies and conspiracy theories. She attempted to do so by telling lies and creating a new conspiracy theory, this one blaming the news media for "taking teeny tiny pieces of comments she made so as to cancel her."

That is not true. That is not at all what happened. The full context of Congresswoman Greene's bigoted theories and stunts have been recorded for all of us to see by her. Videos, live streams, we took screen shots.

Here she is on video accosting Parkland activist and school shooting survivor David Hogg in 2019, calling him a coward. He was a teenager at the time.

Here she is trying to find Muslim-American Congresswoman Tlaib and Omar, trying to force them to swear in on a Christian bible, claiming falsely that they were not legitimate Democratic representatives. Here's Congresswoman Greene's long unhinged Facebook post accusing the

wealthy Jewish family, the Rothschild's, of using a space laser to cause a deadly forest fire so as to enrich themselves, as well as Senator Feinstein's husband, Richard Blum.

Here's Greene liking a comment that called for the assassination of the Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi. None of that out of context, none of that teeny tiny pieces. Now, today Greene said school shootings are real.

That's a general comment that does not specifically address the social media post in 2018 in which she agreed with the crazy notion that the Parkland shooting, the specific school shooting, was a fake, planted operation. Exactly, she wrote.

Today, Greene admits that 9/11 happened, even though she is on camera in 2018 in an extensive video in which she doubted specifically whether or not a plane hit the pentagon, which, of course, it did.

Today's speech, just as a factual matter, was an attempt to rewrite history ahead of this vote that is happening because Republican leadership, frankly, has refused to take any action against her as normally would happen in the past.

In fact, in a meeting of House Republicans yesterday, roughly half of the Republican caucus gave Greene a standing ovation, a source in the room tells me. Let that sink in, a standing ovation for an obvious empirically bigoted person who is trafficked in anti-Semitic and Islamophobic and deranged conspiracy theories.

Of course, this is about more than just one member of Congress, this is about what her party stands for, the Republican Party, and how much House Republicans will continue to embrace these lies and conspiracy theories.

Though, of course, it, frankly, might be tough for them to push it away, given the fact that two-thirds of the House Republican caucus went along with the lies and conspiracy theories about the November election, a big lie that led to the January 6th insurrection.

So, given the opportunity to denounce Marjorie Greene's lies, perhaps it's no surprise that Republican leaders have abdicated responsibility. As CNN'S Ryan Nobles reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In a last-ditch effort to save her spot on House committees

REP. MAXINE WATERS (D-CA): The chair recognizes the gentlewoman from Georgia for 10 minutes.

NOBLES: Republican Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene went to the House floor to ask her colleagues to give her a second chance.

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): I was allowed to believe things that weren't true, and I would ask questions about them and talk about them. And that is absolutely what I regret.

NOBLES: In a more than ten-minute speech amid a debate about her future, Greene attempted to put distance between herself and the vile conspiracy theories she said she once believed.

GREENE: School shootings are absolutely real. And every child that is lost, those families mourn it. I also want to tell you 9/11 absolutely happened.

NOBLES: In the past, Greene has promoted conspiracies such as there not being evidence a plane hit a pentagon on 9/11, and that the 2018 shooting at a Florida high school was fake or staged. She's also promoted the QAnon conspiracy.

[16:05:00]

GREENE: I never said any of these things since I have been elected for Congress. These were words of the past and these things do not represent me.

NOBLES: But as recently as last December, Greene defended QAnon believers in an interview with CNN.

GREENE: I think it's unfair to criticize regular American people that just are looking things up on the Internet.

NOBLES: During her remarks, Greene spent as much time attacking her detractors as she did trying to clean up her past comments. Democrats said Greene's remarks were too little, too late.

REP. JIM MCGOVERN (D-MA): I didn't hear anybody apologize or retract the anti-Semitic and Islamophobic remarks that have been made, that have been posted over and over and over again.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NOBLES (on-camera): So as you can see there, Democrats were not moved by Marjorie Taylor Greene's speech on the House floor today. It is very likely that she will be removed from those House committees in the next couple of hours.

The question is how many Republicans will join their Democratic colleagues to vote to kick her off those committees?

At this point it's pretty clear that the majority of Republicans will argue that they do not want to set a precedent of a minor -- majority party taking minority members off committees.

And at this point, Jake, maybe only a handful of those Republicans call for her to be removed off of those committees.

TAPPER: It's a bad precedent, but the point is usually the leaders of the party in the House take the action so it doesn't have to go to the majority party. Ryan, thanks so much.

Let's discuss with two former House Republicans, former Congresswoman Mia Love who represented a district in Utah, former Congressman Paul Mitchell, represented the district in Michigan.

Congresswoman Love, let me start with you. I want to start with this rewriting of history we're seeing today from Congresswoman Greene. What was your reaction?

FORMER REP. MIA LOVE (R-UT): Well, first of all, you can't rewrite history. I have so much to say about this and it's -- it's not like I have any skin in the game except for my life, my children's life, and the lives of the American people, right?

The Internet is there and what you say will be used against you. And you can't just say that you didn't say it. And what's important is that this is not something she was apologetic about a week ago, two weeks ago, it's when her rear end was in hot water. Now all of a sudden she wants to pull back.

This is what I have to say. If you do not have any friends, if you do not build any coalitions, you're not going to be able to get anything done, things that her constituents are depending on her to do.

You're not going to be able to have any leverage or any room to have anybody help you with any legislation.

TAPPER: Congressman Mitchell, I mean, these aren't comments that she made when she was 16. Comments, you know, actions that she took in college. This is just a couple years ago, and she's been, frankly, saying wild things since being elected to Congress, too.

FORMER REP. PAUL MITCHELL (R-MI): Well, I think this emanates, first, from a failure of leadership to engage in the primary. They should have engaged in the primary. As you recall, I engaged in a primary where I was an initial contributor to Steven King's -- Steve King's primary opponent because of things he said and he had done.

I was involved with leadership when we removed Steve King from committees as well as Duncan Hunter. The Republicans should have taken action to address her long before she hit Congress and they should've taken action, not had this drawn-out process.

This really detracted from where they're trying to go because they're, in some manner, trying to defend Marjorie Taylor Greene. She's an embarrassment to the Republican Party. She's an embarrassment to leadership there.

And you can't -- she failed to apologize. She failed to announce -- renounce specific things she said. You're absolutely correct, renounce the discussion of the shooting -- school shootings weren't real. Say it, Parkland was real and I'm sorry. She didn't do that.

TAPPER: Yeah.

MITCHELL: She can't do that, I believe. And for that, we have a real problem.

TAPPER: Congressman Kinzinger, a source inside the room tells me, he's somebody I know both of you appreciate as standing up for what the Republican Party should be, Congressman Kinzinger took Leader McCarthy to task, I'm told, from somebody in the room because he extensively for, like, maybe four minutes defended Marjorie Taylor Greene and then halfheartedly defended Liz Cheney for maybe a couple sentences I was told.

Is there not a leadership problem here, Congresswoman Love?

LOVE: Well, I've said this, I -- and I think that the -- I'm going to say it again, this is an opportunity for Kevin McCarthy to stand up and be a leader for the Republican Party, not look to former President Donald Trump to be the leader of the Republican Party.

And also, this is -- I find it really interesting that they went after Liz Cheney for a vote versus going after Representative Greene for comments that are really bad for the party.

[16:10:00]

And the last thing I'm going to say about this is if it weren't for Congresswoman Liz Cheney, Steve King probably would still be there.

It wasn't until she became the conference chair that they finally stripped him of his committee assignments because it was bad for the party as a whole. So, I find this really interesting.

TAPPER: Yeah. And Congressman Mitchell, Republican Leader McCarthy also now pretending that he doesn't know what this deranged conspiracy theory, this cult, QAnon, is. This is what he said in August.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): Let me be very clear. There is no place for QAnon in the Republican Party. I do not support it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Yesterday, he was acting as though he had no idea what was going on. There's a -- it seems to me like there's a real problem in the House Republican caucus about lies and dishonesty. Not just about QAnon, but also just the big election lies that you were pushing back against that so many House Republicans endorsed.

MITCHELL: Well, two comments on that. I think you're right, I think there are too many members that are afraid of the small minority of the party that are loud, that are -- obviously they came to the Capitol steps and attacked the Capitol. They're afraid to stands up and say, you know, there was no stolen election, we're done with the lies, the conspiracy theories.

The other item for you is your comment about leadership, I think, is very real. I said it on Twitter just today, you can't placate all sides of this and lead. Kevin McCarthy needs to stand up and lead. He should've led on the Marjorie Taylor Greene thing. He should've led on the issue with Cheney and simply said, you know, she's entitled to take the vote that she believes to represent herself and those people, her people she represents. And that -- they claim they had 140, 160 signature on a petition. If

you had them, show me the signatures then we'll talk about it. Talk's cheap. He didn't do that.

TAPPER: Yeah.

MITCHELL: And leadership is needed in a time of crisis.

TAPPER: I wish both of you were still in the caucus, I wish both of you were in leadership. Thanks so much for joining us today. We really appreciate it. Congresswoman Love, Congressman Mitchell.

LOVE: Thank you, Jake.

TAPPER: Appreciate it. We're going to continue to watch the vote on the House floor and bring you updates.

Also breaking, today House impeachment managers, Democrats, asking Trump to testify. The former president just responded to their request.

Parents, teachers, mayors, medical experts all trying to get kids back to school safely. Can that happen before teachers get vaccinated? We'll take a look. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:15:00]

TAPPER: In our other big story in the "Politics Lead," the former President of the United States, Donald Trump, will not testify in the Senate impeachment trial. We just got that response to the demand from House Democratic impeachment managers that Trump testify in the trial.

Testimony under oath would get Trump on the record about his conduct and actions surrounding his spreading of the big lie and his incitement of the January 6th Capitol Hill attack.

This request for his testimony comes after his lawyers made claims in a legal brief that were undermined by Trump's own public statements. Let's bring in CNN'S Jim Acosta. First, Jim, what are trump's lawyers saying about the request that he testify?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF DOMESTIC CORRESPONDENT: Well, they're throwing cold water on the idea. They're calling it a publicity stunt. And as you were just saying a few moments ago, Jake, Trump's spokesman is saying no, the former president will not be testifying at this impeachment trial.

House managers, house impeachment managers, wanted the former president to testify because they say that this filing coming from the Trump impeachment team a couple of days ago was just filled with factual inaccuracies.

For example, the Trump impeachment team was saying that the former president never tried to subvert the counting of the electoral votes on January 6th. That's just not the case. But this is what the Trump impeachment team is saying in response to the House Democrats request for the former president to testify, let me put this up on screen.

It says "We are in receipt of your latest public relations stunt. As you certainly know, there is no such thing as a negative inference in this unconstitutional proceeding. Your letter only confirms what is known to everyone: you cannot prove your allegations against the 45th President of the United States, who is now a private citizen. The use of our constitution to bring a purported impeachment proceeding is much too serious to try to play these games."

And so Jake, the question at this point is whether or not House Democrats or Senate Democrats, for that matter, would vote to compel the testimony of the former president, i.e., vote to subpoena the former president.

He did not testify, obviously, during the first impeachment trial, and -- nor was he called to do so. They didn't have any witnesses at that first impeachment trial over in the Senate. So it remains to be seen what the House Democrats will do next.

TAPPER: Of course, the Senate is now controlled by Democrats, not Republicans, as opposed to a year ago during that impeachment trial. What are Senate Republicans saying, how are they reacting to this request that he testify from the House Democrats?

ACOSTA: Yeah, they're reacting pretty negatively to it. There are some who are leaving the door open, I suppose, to hearing from the former president, but here is some of the reaction we got earlier today to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): They want a ridiculous show trial because they're more motivated by partisan anger than they are to actually solving the very real problems we have in this country. We need to get to work to do our jobs.

SEN. BILL CASSIDY (R-LA): We're setting a precedent here where they don't have to do diddly squat over there and they can impeach somebody and send them to us and then build their case. I'm a little frustrated by that. It's unfair to the process.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: And Jake, truth be told, there are some Senate Democrats who are not hot on this idea, either, of seeing the former president testify at the impeachment trial. As Senator Chris Coons, I think, was speaking for some Senate Democrats who were hopeful that this would just get over as soon as possible, and, you know, really talk down the idea of seeing the former president come in and testify.

In his words, he said, "have you met President Trump?" meaning they don't want this to turn into a spectacle which, of course, is exactly what would happen if Donald Trump were to come in and testify at this trial. Jake? TAPPER: All right, Jim Acosta, thanks so much. Let's discuss with our

panel. Abby, in their response today, Trump's lawyers called the Democrats' request for Trump to testify a public relations stunt.

And Democrats know very well it would be a very high bar, difficult to get the former president to comply with their requests. So why make it?

[16:20:00]

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, it's a good question because they also know that if they were in the shoes of the Trump lawyers, they also wouldn't allow former President Trump to testify before Congress.

I also think that it's, even from a factual perspective, this is not an individual who is known to be truthful, so it's not clear to me that they would get anything from the experience out other than a continuation of the lies that we have heard from former President Trump for months and months.

That being said, I do think they want to make the point that they have given him an opportunity to defend himself in the context of this hearing, and that he has turned it down.

One of the key parts about the pushback from on the Republican side is this idea that he's not being given sufficient due process. And at least this gives him the opportunity to come forward and proclaim his innocence if he sees fit. But he's very unlikely to do that.

TAPPER: But Jackie, I mean, the House Democrats have a good point when they argue that the lawyers for Trump, their briefing on Tuesday was just full of lies.

I mean, at one point they wrote, "it is denied that the phrase," this is what President Trump said at the January 6th rally, "the phrase 'if you don't fight like hell you're not going to have a country anymore' had anything to do with the action at the Capitol as it was clearly about the need to fight for election security in general, as evidenced by the recording of the speech."

Take a listen to Trump on that day.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We fight like hell, and if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: I mean, you'll recall this was in the context of him saying that they were all, including him, going to march down to the Capitol. This was just moments before --

JACKIE KUCINICH, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, THE DAILY BEAST: Right. TAPPER: -- the House and Senate were to convene to count the electoral

votes. He told people at the rally, let's go down. He was going to go down with them. This was not about, like, general election integrity.

KUCINICH: Well, right, and also in that brief, it said I believe there was insufficient evidence to say that Trump's claims about election fraud were untrue. Apparently, all those court hearings that dismissed them out of hand don't count as evidence.

So -- but let's remember, let's go back to 2018 during the Mueller investigation. And they were worried about him -- Trump having a perjury trap, which basically, it's only a perjury trap if you go in and lie.

So the president isn't really known for his ability -- for his lawyers having confidence in him to tell the truth, and also for telling the truth. And these -- what Democrats would risk is having the same lies be broadcast on the Senate floor for all to see.

Now, that -- as Abby mentioned, that we've heard over and over and over again. And what the value add is there for these Republican senators, who have essentially said nothing as the president did this over and over and over again before the riot, I just -- I don't know that it would change any minds and it would just create a spectacle. So what their thinking is there I think is unclear.

TAPPER: Not just they didn't say anything, some of them contributed to the big lie.

KUCINICH: Exactly.

TAPPER: Abby, in the sound that Jim Acosta just played for us, none other than Ted Cruz is there talking about the importance of getting to the important work of the American people.

He was one of the chief spreaders of the big lie, and he did so under the guise of all sorts of -- he did so cleverly so that you knew that he knew what was true and what wasn't true and yet he did so in such a way so as to give credence to this nonsense that the election could be overturned. I mean, it's -- it just -- it's tough to hear him say things like that.

PHILLIP: Yeah, maybe a little too clever by half. He -- I think he used the phrase, partisan, you know, stirring up partisan anger.

TAPPER: Yeah.

PHILLIP: What is more evidence of partisan anger than the riot that happened on Capitol Hill on January 6th that he stirred up because he told these people that there was something happening in the Capitol that day that would have turned the results of the election the other way.

That is the responsibility of people like Ted Cruz, who are now trying to move on and now trying to claim that they want the Senate to get back to its normal business when for months they backed up the president as he prevented a peaceful transition of power from happening, as he obstructed the Biden administration from doing what they needed to do to get in the government. This is part -- this is a little bit of a trial for Ted Cruz, too, in some ways.

TAPPER: Him and Josh Hawley, they have blood on their hands --

KUCINICH: Yeah.

TAPPER: -- just like all the others who spread the lies. Thanks so much. We're going to come back to you in a little bit.

The CDC says schools can re-open, even if teachers have not had their COVID vaccines. What teachers can do to stay safe when kids return to classrooms. That's next.

[16:25:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our "Health Lead" today, a battle is raging in school districts across the country as teachers unions fight against plans to re-open classrooms for in-person learning without the safety measures they say are needed.

Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot today said public schools cannot deny parents the right to have their kids back in school builds. That public school system has implemented a slew of safety measures, such as daily screenings, new air filtration systems, sanitizing stations, contact tracing.

Now, rapid testing could have the potential to ease some teachers' concerns.

[16:30:00]