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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Biden Focusing on Relief Package; Trump Facing Mounting Legal Trouble; Calls for Impeachment, Prosecution & Stripping Power from New York Governor After Cover-Up Allegations Over Nursing Home Deaths; Nearly 170M Americans Under Winter Weather Advisories. Aired 4:30-5p ET

Aired February 15, 2021 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:30:00]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And we want to turn to our politics lead now, because the Senate acquitted former President Donald Trump, but his legal troubles are far from over.

It's only been three weeks since he left the White House and became a private citizen, and the list of criminal and civil threats is already growing.

CNN's Kara Scannell joins me live to discuss.

So, walk us through, Kara, what former President Trump is facing now.

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Pamela, like you said, the list is growing.

And the most advanced investigation by far is the criminal investigation by the Manhattan district attorney's office. They're looking into whether any state laws were violated by the president or his -- or -- excuse me -- the former president or his company, looking at such issues, potential violations of tax fraud or insurance fraud.

Now, in Georgia, the Fulton County district attorney's office is investigating Trump's efforts to overturn the state election results. There, the prosecutor is focusing in on the phone call where Trump had pressured the secretary of state to find the votes, find enough votes to swing the election in his favor.

And, in Washington, D.C., the Justice Department and the D.C. attorney general are both investigating the insurrection. There, the -- former President Trump has expressed concern that he could be charged in that case. And we know that the top prosecutor overseeing the federal inquiry has made it clear that they're looking at all actors.

But that's not the end of it. There's also the civil side, some of these civil investigations and lawsuits that Trump is facing. The New York attorney general is conducting a broad investigation into potential financial frauds. And, in addition, he's facing to defamation lawsuits by women who've accused Trump of sexually assaulting them before he was president. Now, Trump has denied wrongdoing in all of these cases. And the Trump

Organization says it has complied with the law -- Pamela.

BROWN: And how has his legal exposure changed since becoming a private citizen?

SCANNELL: Well, he's become much more vulnerable.

On the criminal side, it really is legally untested what would happen if a state or local prosecutor had indicted or announced criminal charges against a sitting president. We do know, on the federal side, the Justice Department has a policy not to prosecute a sitting president.

So, this was something that was really up in the air and was likely to be fought in court. On the civil side, both of those defamation lawsuits had been placed on hold because -- over the question of whether a sitting president could be sued in state court.

So, the bottom line is that citizen Trump is a lot more vulnerable than President Trump -- Pamela.

BROWN: All right, that's the bottom line.

Kara, thanks so much.

And joining me now is constitutional law professor Michael Gerhardt. He also served as special counsel to Senator Patrick Leahy during last week's trial.

Mike, thanks for coming on -- Michael, I should say.

Most Republicans said that it was unconstitutional to try a president after he's left office. The majority, though, of constitutional scholars, it seems, have said it is constitutional, you can do this. So, who gets to settle the score here? Is it sort of still this open question?

MICHAEL GERHARDT, UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA: Well, I appreciate the chance to be here.

And also, I guess I should begin by just saying I'm just speaking for myself today, and not, of course, anybody in the Senate.

But I have already been on record as defending the constitutionality of a post-presidential impeachment. I think the direct answer to your question is that the Senate really got to decide. The Senate was the final decision-maker on that. And so, when a majority in the Senate voted to maintain jurisdiction -- that is, to keep the case and proceed -- that resolved that issue for purposes of this trial.

BROWN: But what about potential future trials? Would it apply?

GERHARDT: Well, it's a good question.

I think, in all likelihood, it will be what we in the law call persuasive authority. That means it doesn't bind. It doesn't force the Senate to do anything in particular. But it has the -- it may influence what the Senate does.

So it will support the choice to maintain jurisdiction over somebody who's left office. I would point out that, at least four times, the Senate in its history has voted to maintain jurisdiction over somebody who's left office. So, the Senate has been consistent on that point for quite a long time.

BROWN: And so, basically, the bottom line here is, if you're president, and you're at the end of your term, under the Republican standard, you can commit any crime you want, and not face political punishment.

Is that essentially what they're saying here?

GERHARDT: I think that is what they were saying. At the end, they said, well, maybe this president or -- President Trump, for example, could face some kind of liability and civil or criminal action.

But I think you're correct that impeachment would become ineffective, toothless in those last months of a presidency. And it's largely because impeachment, for example, this time was based not on an actual criminal offense. It was based on a political offense, an injury to the republic.

Most impeachments are based not on violations of the law, but violations of the Constitution and political injury to the republic. And so the injury here that President Trump caused would not be redressable in a court later.

[16:35:05]

BROWN: And, as we know, no impeachment has ever led to a conviction of a president.

If you can't convict a president -- obviously, others have been convicted -- what is the point of impeachment for a president? How much sway does it hold?

GERHARDT: That, again, is a terrific question. And it's the big question, I think, impeachment has to face right now.

You're absolutely right. For every president who's faced an impeachment trial, that president has been acquitted. And I think what we have learned is that the system we have inherited from the framers makes removal or disqualification, each of which might require two- thirds of the Senate, makes them virtually impossible.

If a president's political party backs him throughout the entire impeachment trial, impeachment basically becomes a nullity. And so we're discovering that impeachment may at best be a tarnishment of the person's legacy. It may be sort of what we might think of as a shot across the bow.

It's not something presidents aspire to get, but it might -- and so it does leave a mark on them and a mark on their legacy, maybe even on their political future. But it's not going to result in their removal from office or disqualification from ever serving again in office.

BROWN: Do you think the fact that Congress has once again acquitted a president has siphoned power away from the legislative branch and make the executive branch more powerful?

I think it was Ben Sasse. He argued that in his statement.

GERHARDT: I think Senator Sasse is absolutely correct.

I think that what happens, when presidents get acquitted, as has happened twice with Mr. Trump, that makes the presidency stronger, and it makes Congress weaker. Impeachment was supposed to be the primary mechanism Congress had for holding a president accountable for his misconduct in office.

But if impeachment doesn't work, if it doesn't hold the president accountable, then presidents know they can do these bad things, they can engage in the misconduct, or maybe worse, and not fear removal or any kind of sanction, as long as they keep their political party together in the Senate.

BROWN: Well, and even legally, as we were just talking about with Kara, it hasn't been tested to prosecute a president in office. And DOJ's precedent, I believe, is to -- not to do that.

So, that's really interesting in that in that context as well.

Michael Gerhardt, thank you so much for your time.

GERHARDT: Thank you.

BROWN: Will you get a $1,400 check?

President Biden now racing to get his COVID rescue plan passed with Trump's impeachment behind him.

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[16:42:07]

BROWN: And turning to our politics lead.

Now with Trump's impeachment in the rearview mirror, President Biden is putting the pressure on Congress to pass his $1.9 trillion COVID relief package. And with unemployment benefits expiring for millions of Americans in less than a month from now, it's a race against the clock to get something passed, as CNN's Phil Mattingly reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Joe Biden back at the White House with one major issue off of his plate, Senate acquittal of his predecessor clearing the way for Biden, not Donald Trump, to move to center stage, thrusting his top priority, a $1.9 trillion coronavirus aid package, to the forefront.

Lawmakers pressed to get a final proposal to his desk, underscoring a pandemic that, while improving nationwide, still sits in a harrowing place.

DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, CDC DIRECTOR: We are still at about 100,000 cases a day. We are still at around 1,500 to 3,500 deaths per day. The cases are more than 2.5-fold times what we saw over the summer.

MATTINGLY: The Biden administration today reopening Obamacare enrollment, the White House hoping some of the 15 million uninsured and eligible for Obamacare policies, including nine million who qualify for federal assistance, will enroll, but Biden in a statement using the enrollment to pitch his cornerstone legislative goal, noting it would -- quote -- "ramp up testing, tracing and our national vaccination program to get shots into as many arms as possible as quickly as we can."

Democrats on Capitol Hill speeding to turn the bill into law, with House Democratic leaders planning to vote next week, even without any GOP support.

SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-MD): As of right now, you're right. We don't have the votes to get that done.

MATTINGLY: One key plank, the $15 minimum wage, remains a tough sell with razor-thin Democratic majorities, two Senate Democrats already signaling opposition, leaving the key progressive priority in limbo.

But Biden hitting the road this week to sell his plan, the first domestic trips for the new president, in Wisconsin on Tuesday for a CNN town hall, and to Michigan on Thursday, all as he seeks to rally the country around a plan that still lacks any GOP congressional support.

CEDRIC RICHMOND, SENIOR PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: We're still working every day to see if we can earn Republican support for the plan. But what we won't do is slow down and not meet the needs of the American people by just waiting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: And, Pamela, that approach underscores the necessity not to just sell the plan publicly, as you're going to see the president do over the course of the next several days, but also working behind the scenes with Democrats, obviously, narrow majorities in the House and the Senate.

And White House aides tell me they are working very closely with those majorities, the leadership level, the committee chairs, to ensure each detail of this package not only lines up with what President Biden has laid out, but also lines up with what can pass, recognizing that there are different elements of the Democratic Caucus in different places.

[16:45:06] However, all of them, all of them will be necessary in order to get this across the finish line and to the president's desk. That is the focus as much as selling it publicly but behind the scenes over the course of the next several weeks -- Pamela.

BROWN: All right. Phil Mattingly, live for us from the White House -- thanks so much, Phil.

And be sure to tune in to CNN tomorrow night for an exclusive presidential town hall. President Joe Biden will join Anderson Cooper live from Milwaukee, Wisconsin. That's tomorrow at 9:00 p.m. Eastern, only on CNN.

And new calls for impeachment over the handling of the coronavirus pandemic, but the target isn't Donald Trump.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: In our health lead now, New York Governor Andrew Cuomo under fire from lawmakers on both sides of the aisle over allegations his administration covered up nursing home deaths.

[16:50:03]

He is now speaking out. Cuomo took responsibility for not sharing information on nursing homes fast enough, but denies there was a cover-up. And now, there are calls for Cuomo's impeachment and prosecution as CNN's Brynn Gingras reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): We made a mistake.

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): New York Governor Andrew Cuomo finally speaking out days after his top aide admitted their office withheld data for months about COVID-19 deaths of nursing home deaths.

Cuomo acknowledging on Monday that the data was not provided soon enough.

CUOMO: In retrospect, we should have prioritized, providing more information.

GINGRAS: But arguing that the state's death counts were accurate and that information was not hidden.

CUOMO: To be clear, all the deaths in the nursing homes and in the hospitals were always fully, publicly and accurately reported.

GINGRAS: Until late last month, New York only accounted separately for people who died from COVID-19 separately for those in nursing homes but it didn't include those who died after they were transported to a hospital or elsewhere.

CUOMO: The public had many questions and concerns, and the press had many questions about nursing homes primarily. And I understand that they were not answered quickly enough.

GINGRAS: The tipping point came when, in a private video call, the governor's top aide, Melissa DeRosa, told Democratic state lawmakers they delayed giving updated information to them after then-President Trump's Department of Justice sent an inquiry about nursing home deaths in the state because, quote, basically we froze, because then we were in a position where we weren't sure of what we were going to give to the Department of Justice or what we give to you guys. What we start saying was going to be used against us.

Her words, an admission that the administration stalled on showing a true picture of just how many nursing home residents died, just as the governor was lauded globally for his pandemic response.

EMILY MUNSON, ALBANY TIMES: Between his Emmy for his coronavirus press briefings to Governor Cuomo's book, to his speech at the Democratic National Convention, Governor Cuomo has been held up as the model governor in his coronavirus response, even though New York was so hard hit by the virus early on.

GINGRAS: Cuomo arguing today much as the same as his top aide, that the request for data from former President Trump's Department of Justice was politically motivated but took priority over the state legislature's request.

CUOMO: Everybody was working 24 hours a day. Everybody was overwhelmed. We were in the midst of dealing with a pandemic and trying to save lives. They were answering DOJ.

GINGRAS: He's now taking heat from both sides of the New York legislature.

NICK LANGWORTHY, NY GOP CHAIRMAN: The gravity of this cover-up cannot be overstated.

GINGRAS: Republicans declaring he should be investigated, some even using the word "impeachment."

LANGWORTHY: Andrew Cuomo must be prosecuted and Andrew Cuomo must be impeached if this evidence exists.

GINGRAS: And Democrats are actively discussing drafting a bill to strip Cuomo of his emergency powers.

You're only sorry you all got caught, tweeted Democratic Senator Alessandra Biaggi.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GINGRAS (on camera): And approximately 50,000 long-term care residents died in the state of New York, about a third of the totals in the state according to the Department of Health. But the big question here is what the governor said today. Is that going to be enough to ward off any investigations?

And, Pam, it's unclear at this point if everyone is comforted by this. It's very possible this political fallout will be something that lingers for the governor as he possibly seeks re-election. He is up for re-election next year -- Pam.

BROWN: All right. Brynn, thank you so much for the latest there.

Meantime, over in Texas, of all places, slammed with snow, ice and temperatures near zero, and it could get worse soon. That's next.

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[16:58:38]

BROWN: Well, dangerous winter weather is pounding large parts of the nation, threatening nearly 170 million people. At least 11 people have died in weather-related accidents across the South.

The governor of Kentucky is warning winter storms could slow down vaccination sites.

CNN meteorologist Tom Sater joins me live.

So, what can we expect in the days to come, Tom?

TOM SATER, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Pamela, this is a multi-day event. And we're only getting rid of the first batch of snow and ice. It's causing a world of problems.

After you get through the shock and awe of all the snow and the cold, you're now looking at what could be a humanitarian crisis. Air temperatures mentioned to you yesterday when I with was with you, Houston for the very first time is under a winter storm -- I should say a wind chill warning.

They remain that way at 26 degrees. But it's not just this cold. It's those that do not have power and those that will lose power in the hours ahead.

Notice the departure from normal. I mean, 43 degrees colder than it should be in Houston. 250 cold temperature records most likely will be broken. If you look at just Texas, we've got 31 percent of the state without power, 4.3 million, and millions more could lose their power in the Hours ahead. The icing is significant right now.

Crews cannot come from out of state to help restore power, Pamela, because they're dealing with their own problems. Wednesday into Thursday, another round of record snow and crippling ice moves from the Southern Plains to New England.

Watch out, it's going to get worse in the Ohio valley this evening.

BROWN: Yeah, this seems one for the record books. Thanks, Tom.

And you can follow me on Twitter @pamelabrown or tweet the show @TheLeadCNN.

Our coverage continues right now. [17:00:00]