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The Lead with Jake Tapper

U.S. Set to Pass 500,000 COVID-19 Deaths; Trump Forced to Hand Over Tax Returns; Attorney General Nominee Merrick Garland Faces Confirmation Hearings. Aired 4-4:30p ET

Aired February 22, 2021 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Thank you so much.

I'm Brooke Baldwin. We will see you back here this time tomorrow.

In the meantime, to Washington, we go. "THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER" starts right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: And welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

We begin today with breaking news in the politics lead.

Right now, Judge Merrick Garland is finally getting his hearing. President Biden's nominee for attorney general, denied such a hearing when President Obama nominated him for the Supreme Court, is currently testifying in the first of two days of confirmation hearings before the Senate Judiciary Committee.

Judge Garland today has assured senators that he will lead an independent Justice Department, as the people's lawyer, not the president's. Garland also asserted his first priority is to prosecute those involved in the January 6 insurrection at the U.S. Capitol.

So far, the nominee is getting praise from both Democrats and Republicans.

CNN's Evan Perez has been following the hearing.

And, Evan, attorney general, it's a key position in any administration, but particularly given the perhaps unprecedented politicizing of the DOJ that Trump did, people are really talking to him about what he's going to do.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jake, that was one of the -- frankly, that was a question we heard repeatedly from Republicans, which is, how do you restore the Justice Department to make sure it is not political?

I'm not sure that is exactly what they were going after. But that is an important theme of what Merrick Garland represents and what he plans to bring. Here's his answer with regard to what kind of lawyer is he -- is he the president's lawyer or is he the people's lawyer? Here's his answer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MERRICK GARLAND, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL NOMINEE: I am not the president's lawyer. I am the United States' lawyer. And I will do everything in my power, which I believe is considerable, to fend off any effort by anyone to make prosecutions or investigations partisan or political in any way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREZ: And, Jake, there were a lot of other questions that the judge, the sitting judge, had to answer, including about the death penalty. He said that, obviously, this despite the fact that he was the one in charge of the Timothy McVeigh case, which ended up obviously with McVeigh's execution, he says that he's had some pause about the death penalty.

Of course, that's in contrast with the last administration, which carried out 13 executions in about six months, much more than in the past 60 years.

He also addressed Jeffrey Epstein, who was accused of being a sex trafficker and died in prison. He said that that was a case that was handled horrendously and should have -- he should have been vigorously prosecuted.

TAPPER: Evan, Garland also became emotional at one point this afternoon after he was asked about his motivation for wanting to become attorney general.

PEREZ: Yes, this was certainly the most striking moment in the hearing today.

And he came ready to talk about race issues and the importance of restoring this department to look into these issues, especially in light of what happened on January 6. Here's his answer to that, Jake.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GARLAND: My grandparents fled anti-Semitism and persecution. The country took us in and protected us.

And I feel an obligation to the country to pay back. And this is the highest, best use of my own set of skills to pay back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREZ: And, Jake, you could tell from that answer and some of the other answers you heard today that even Republicans we don't plan to vote for him, I think, were taken by some of his answers and some of his -- certainly some of his personal story.

He's been, obviously, here at the department before, and now is coming back to try to restore some of what this department is supposed to be about.

TAPPER: All right, Evan Perez, thanks so much.

Let's discuss.

Elliot Williams, let me start with you.

Democratic Senator Sheldon Whitehouse asked if Judge Garland would investigate not only those on the ground during the January 6 attack, those in the Capitol, but the -- quote -- "ringleaders or aiders or abettors," who were not necessarily physically present. Take a listen to Garland's answer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GARLAND: But we begin with the people on the ground, and we work our way up to those who were involved and further involved. And we will pursue these leads wherever they take us.

That's the job of a prosecution.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: What might that mean?

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, FORMER DEPUTY U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Right.

I think perhaps Senator Whitehouse, or if not Senator Whitehouse, many people listening wanted to hear the next attorney general say that he's planning on investigating the president of the United States, the former president.

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Now, obviously, that's -- he was never going to make such an admission. But in building any prosecution, what you would do is start low, start with the people you arrest, and ask them to provide information as to further people up the chain that they could get to.

So, certainly, we know that there was online chatter that led to the coordination of the events. We know that people coordinated. And, obviously, the goal in this investigation, I think the largest ever in just department history, or one of the largest, is not to stop at the individuals who are just arrested on the first day.

So, certainly, more -- I would assume, from the attorney general or the nominee's statements, more indictments are coming. But I don't think he was going to say that he was going to investigate or prosecute the former president.

And, Nia-Malika, very Interesting, the U.S. attorney in Delaware, the U.S. attorney under Trump, is being kept in his position right now by the Biden administration because they are investigating Hunter Biden, a very highly charged situation.

Take a listen to Garland being asked about that case. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHARLES GRASSLEY (R-IA): So have you discussed this Hunter Biden case with the president or anyone else?

GARLAND: I have not.

The president made abundantly clear in every public statement before and after my nomination that decisions about investigations and prosecutions will be left to the Justice Department.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Pretty interesting.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Interesting.

And, listen, this is something that needs to be said, given how the former president behaved. He behaved as if Jeff Sessions, at first the attorney general, was his private attorney, and then, of course, the same with Bill Barr, who sometimes did, in fact, act like he was President Trump, former President Trump's attorney.

So, you have this likely incoming attorney general having to say this, and people having questions about it because of what we have seen.

You have had obviously President Biden say this time and time again, that the Department of Justice will be run by the attorney general. And you heard Garland there say that he sees himself not as the president's attorney, but as America's attorney and top law enforcement official.

But, yes, I mean, this is the hangover from the Donald Trump administration. You did have some Republicans try to make it seem like, well, really, it was the Obama administration that had politicized the Department of Justice. They sort of didn't even acknowledge that any of that stuff was going on under the Trump administration.

But, listen, that's where Republicans are. They sort of don't want to necessarily pay attention to and admit some of the failings of the former president.

TAPPER: And, Olivier, John Durham, former U.S. attorney who Trump made a special counsel, is investigating the origins of the Trump- Russia probe, as started during the Trump administration. Garland was asked today if he would commit to keeping Durham in that position as special counsel, and Garland said he didn't think -- have any reason to think he should not stay in that place. But he didn't really make a firm commitment.

What did you make of the answer?

OLIVIER KNOX, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Right.

Well, Republicans seem to unsettled by the fact that, unlike Bill Barr, who made that kind of affirmative statement about the Mueller investigation, Merrick Garland wouldn't.

But if you look at the totality of Merrick Garland's answers today, you can see that same caution a number of other fronts, where he would say, look, I'm just not read into this investigation, or I don't know what the policy is going to be. And, as such, I can't comment on it.

I think it's notable, but I -- as you say, he basically said, look, I don't see any reason sitting here right now why I should discontinue this investigation.

TAPPER: And, Elliot, Republicans obviously blocked a hearing for Garland when he was nominated to the Supreme Court by Obama back in 2016.

It does seem like he's getting a fairly positive reception from Republicans. Do you think that he's going to get bipartisan approval for the job of attorney general?

WILLIAMS: Oh, I think there's no question that he gets bipartisan approval? The question is how much.

There have been at least two senators who I believe have voted against every nominee thus far. So I have a hard time seeing how the attorney general, which is generally a position that brings some controversy with it, would be the one that would get 99 or 100 senators behind him.

Certainly, what we saw were glimmers of the next few Justice Department nominations, Kristen Clarke for Civil Rights and Vanita Gupta for associate attorney general, that it seems that Republicans want to pick more of a fight about. Merrick Garland didn't take the bait and actually pushed back and defended them quite aggressively today.

But I think those are where the bigger fights will be. But this -- he will get Republicans. I'm quite confident of that. Even -- I think even John Cornyn or somebody said so today. And it'll just be interested to see where the next ones go.

TAPPER: And, Nia, Garland would also lead the Justice Department during a reexamination of race in policing in America, given that the previous attorney generals -- attorneys general did not do that.

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Garland today said he does not support defunding the police. What do you make of his answers about this topic? And what do you think it says about the Biden administration?

HENDERSON: This is where the administration is. Biden has pledged to actually increase funding to police departments all across the country, probably through that COPS program. It's about community- oriented policing.

He's pledged to have $300 million go to that program. So this is where this administration is. It's very different from where progressives are, local community activists, Black Lives Matter activists as well, but it is in keeping -- what Merrick Garland said today in keeping with where the Biden administration is, which, listen, rankles a lot of progressives, but Biden on this issue is much more of a moderate than progressives want him to be.

TAPPER: All right, thanks, one and all. Appreciate your time.

Coming up: He's been trying to hide them for years, but the Supreme Court just ruled that former President Trump must hand over his tax returns. Who will see them? What might that mean? That's next.

Then: Nearly half-a-million Americans have lost their lives to coronavirus, half-a-million. Why Dr. Anthony Fauci says the U.S. could have done better.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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TAPPER: In our politics lead: a massive loss in court today for former President Trump, as the Supreme Court has allowed a prosecutor in New York to obtain eight years of Trump's tax returns.

This is part of an investigation into hush money payments made by former Trump fixer Michael Cohen to two women who have claimed to have had extramarital affairs with the former president, along with possible tax crimes and bank and insurance fraud, as CNN Jessica Schneider now reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Tonight, Donald Trump losing a major legal fight in a looming criminal investigation.

The Supreme Court has cleared the way for New York City's top prosecutor to obtain Trump's tax returns and financial documents dating back to 2011. Manhattan district attorney Cy Vance responding succinctly: "The work continues."

Prosecutors have been probing at least two separate schemes possibly linked to the former president's taxes for more than two years.

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: This shows me that the Manhattan DA's his investigation is getting more and more serious by the day. Now they're going to get the tax returns, and that's going to be a key piece of the puzzle.

SCHNEIDER: They first began examining hush money payments Trump's former fixer Michael Cohen made to two women who alleged affairs with Trump to see if the Trump Organization falsified any records in connection with reimbursements to Cohen.

Then the inquiry seemed to expand when court filings from Vance's team indicated they were investigating possible tax crimes, along with potential bank and insurance fraud. Trump is responding to the Supreme Court decision, saying: "The Supreme Court never should have let this fishing expedition happen. But they did."

He also accused the district attorney of being politically motivated and reiterated the witch-hunt theme he's been harping on for years.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is a continuation of the witch-hunt, the greatest witch-hunt in history. There's never been anything like it, where people want to examine every deal you have ever done to see if they can find that there's a comma out of place.

SCHNEIDER: The criminal probe has only intensified. District attorney Vance has been bolstering his team, adding a well-known former federal prosecutor with an expertise in financial crimes. And they have interviewed Michael Cohen, who's already testified to Congress about Trump's alleged schemes.

REP. WILLIAM LACY CLAY (D-MO): Did the president or his company ever inflate assets or revenues.

MICHAEL COHEN, FORMER ATTORNEY/FIXER FOR DONALD TRUMP: Yes.

CLAY: And was that done with the president's knowledge or direction?

COHEN: Everything was done with the knowledge and at the direction of Mr. Trump.

SCHNEIDER: But the public won't get access to Trump's tax returns as a result of the Supreme Court's ruling. They will be released to the DA for use with the grand jury, only a process where the proceedings are kept secret.

But if Trump or his business face charges, details could be exposed. "The New York Times" has already reported Donald Trump paid no federal income taxes for 10 of the 15 years beginning in 2000, because he lost much more than he made and that, in 2016 and 2017, when Trump was in the White House, he reportedly only paid $750 in federal income taxes.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHNEIDER: And as for the timing of those tax returns, the DA's office expects to get them in the next few days, according to sources, and they will likely be in electronic form.

Now, crucially, prosecutors will also have access to work papers and communications related to those tax returns. And, Jake, that could shed light on if there was any intent to commit crimes here -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Jessica Schneider, thanks so much.

Let's discuss this now with former federal prosecutor Anne Milgram, who also served as attorney general of New Jersey during the Corzine administration. So, Anne, what kind of legal jeopardy is former President Trump in

now? Is this it? If there's something bad in those tax returns, he's going to get in trouble with the law?

ANNE MILGRAM, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, I mean, it certainly seems, Jake, like the tax returns are now going to go over. The sort of last roadblock to stopping that from happening has been cleared by the Supreme Court.

So, we know, as Jessica just said, that there are two sort of separate lines of investigation going on, one into the hush money payments, and this other one, as reported in "The New York Times," that Trump is alleged to have inflated some of his assets when he wanted loans and deflated them when he was paying his taxes.

So, you could be talking about potential tax crimes, bank fraud crimes, insurance fraud. And so he could be looking at a number of potential criminal charges.

And also just remember that he was not charged. When the Southern District charged Michael Cohen, Trump was not charged in that case, but he was named in the indictment.

TAPPER: That's right.

MILGRAM: And so it's clear to me that there are potential -- that the president has -- the former president has potential exposure.

What we don't know yet is what the grand jury would charge based on.

TAPPER: Individual A, I believe, he was referred to in that document against Michael Cohen.

MILGRAM: Yes, No. 1.

TAPPER: What does that mean? I mean, are we actually -- look, we don't know what they're going to find. So I don't want to get ahead of anything.

But, like, are we talking about crimes where somebody could actually go to jail, theoretically?

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MILGRAM: Oh, absolutely.

I mean, there's no question with white-collar fraud cases. And that's what this is. It's alleged white-collar fraud and potential tax fraud and bank fraud. There are potential statutory sentences. And in New York state, it's a little bit different than the federal system.

Those statutes generally have their sentencing sort of range that you would see, depending on what level of felony it is. So, again, we don't know yet. Are we talking about the highest-level felony or a lower-level felony? We can't really predict what a sentence would be because we don't know yet. The one thing I would suggest, though, Jake, is that my feeling is

that it's very likely that this investigation has been ongoing. They have been waiting for Trump's personal tax records and the business tax records.

But other parts of that investigation have been ongoing. So, I feel as though we will see something sooner than later. I mean, there's no absolute sense of timing, other than a statute of limitations that could run, meaning some charges wouldn't be able to be brought if it went on for too long because of the law only giving prosecutors a certain amount of time.

But my sense is that a lot of the investigation will already be done and that this may be one, if not the final piece in that investigation.

TAPPER: Put on your former federal prosecutor hat. What would you be looking for if you got a hold of these documents?

MILGRAM: Well, you know I'm a former assistant DA for Manhattan. So I might put on both of those hats right now.

TAPPER: OK.

MILGRAM: Right?

So, I think there's a number of things that they're going to be looking for. And the first is what Trump's involvement was, what actually happened, the hush money payments, what the links are back and forth between them, and what his taxes and his business taxes show.

Remember that, when "The New York Times" did the reporting on his taxes, there were a lot of potential ways in which it could have been bank fraud, it could have been insurance fraud. He was getting deals.

And so I would be looking for anything connecting Trump to those transactions. And, really, again, I -- my sense is that the taxes are part of a larger investigation, and it is very likely that they have already interviewed witnesses from the Trump Organization, witnesses who would have had knowledge of how -- Michael Cohen, how these deals would have been cut.

And so the last piece is these documents showing what money was actually paid, what valuation was given in order to get loans, what actual taxes were paid. And when you line them up, you can see whether there's a discrepancy.

So, those are the kinds of things I would be looking for.

TAPPER: And very quickly, we only have about 20 seconds left. Will the public ever get to see this, these documents?

MILGRAM: It depends. Immediately, no. But if Trump is charged in an indictment, it's very possible that part of the tax returns or the financial documents could be included as part of that indictment, if it's a speaking indictment.

And if he goes to trial, it's very likely that parts of this would be evidence in a trial, if he's charged with bank and financial fraud. Again, we don't know. And, right now, the answer is no, but I think it's possible if the former president is charged that we would see something relating to these documents.

TAPPER: We're a long way away from that, though, everybody should know.

MILGRAM: We are.

TAPPER: Anne Milgram, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

A once unimaginable number, Dr. Anthony Fauci discussing America's handling of the pandemic, as the country is on the verge of surpassing half-a-million lives lost to COVID.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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TAPPER: In our health lead today: a once-unimaginable milestone about to become reality.

At any moment now, the U.S. is expected to mark having lost more than 500,000 lives to coronavirus. That's more than twice the number of any other country, according to official numbers.

And to think, jaws dropped last year when studies predicted that 200,000 lives would be lost in this pandemic.

In a few hours, President Biden is planning on leading a candle- lighting ceremony to mark this horrific record. And this all comes as the U.S. continues to grapple with how exactly we can live with this pandemic until mass vaccination has happened, as CNN's Nick Watt now reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK ROSE, HUSBAND OF COVID-19 VICTIM: I could tell her anything. Man, I love you so much.

NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Zarina Rose, a 42-year-old nurse, died after giving birth, one of the nearly half-a-million now dead in America.

It did not have to be this way.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NIAID DIRECTOR: If you look back historically, we have done worse than most any other country, the kind of disparate responses of different states, rather than having a unified approach.

WATT: A disengaged now former president. TRUMP: I said it's going away, and it is going away.

WATT: And the politicization of masks.

DR. FRANCIS COLLINS, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH: I think you could make a case that tens of thousands of people died as a result.

WATT: With new, more contagious variants of the virus circulating, say three influential medical associations in a statement to mark half-a-million dead: "Now is not the time to let your guard down."

FAUCI: Now let's just go forward and be completely committed as a unified country to just go at this together. This is a common enemy.

WATT: Our weapons, masks and needles, more than 75 million vaccine doses now distributed. Weather-related delays, Dr. Fauci says, will be made up by midweek.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're getting the Pfizer vaccine.

WATT: Still, less than 6 percent of the U.S. population has been fully vaccinated. And the country likely won't read herd immunity until next winter, say University of Washington modelers.

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