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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Homegrown COVID Variants. Interview With Rep. Adam Kinzinger (R-IL); Congress Holds Hearings on Capitol Insurrection. Aired 4-4:30p ET

Aired February 25, 2021 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:00]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Thank you all so much for being with me. I'm Brooke Baldwin here in New York.

Let's go to Washington. "THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER" starts right now.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

And we begin with the politics lead.

Two major stories are grabbing the attention of the lawmakers today, and both represent continued fallout from the Donald Trump presidency, the coronavirus pandemic and the January 6 insurrection at the U.S. Capitol.

Today, Trump's leadership failures an the lasting damage they have wrought upon the nation were on full display, the very same Trump team that one year ago today made this ill-fated claim:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: This president will always put America first. He will always protect American citizens. We will not see diseases like the coronavirus come here. We will not see terrorism come here. And isn't that refreshing?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Isn't that refreshing?

Yet here we are today with more than 507,000 Americans dead from the coronavirus, five others killed during a domestic terror attack on the U.S. Capitol incited by then President Trump himself.

It is sad to think what might have been, what could have been. For, instance, also one year ago today, on the same day Kayleigh McEnany was asserting that the U.S. need not worry about the coronavirus coming here, an actual expert from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Dr. Nancy Messonnier gave this warning to the American people:

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP) DR. NANCY MESSONNIER, CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION:

Ultimately, we expect we will see community spread in this country. It's not so much a question of if this will happen anymore, but rather more a question of exactly when this will happen and how many people in this country will have severe illness.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

TAPPER: Messonnier was soon essentially silenced because of those remarks, though she was, of course, correct in her prediction, just as the violence at the Capitol was predictable and predicted.

For months, we heard President Trump and his enablers spread the big lie that this election had been stolen. Today, two top law enforcement officials faced some tough questions from members of Congress about how they could possibly have been caught off guard on January 6.

As CNN's Ryan Nobles reports, lawmakers were frustrated by the lack of clear answers.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The blame game in full effect on Capitol Hill again.

REP. KAY GRANGER (R-TX): What I'm hearing is the same old stuff and pointing fingers and it looks like protecting jobs.

NOBLES: Acting Capitol Police Chief Yogananda Pittman acting House Sergeant at Arms Timothy Blodgett told lawmakers the agencies were unprepared for the massive amount of people that stormed the Capitol on January 6.

YOGANANDA PITTMAN, ACTING U.S. CAPITOL POLICE CHIEF: I think that we were well in excess of 10,000 that traversed the grounds. But as far as the numbers that actually came into the building, we estimate that that was approximately 800 demonstrators.

NOBLES: The pair were critical of information that came in ahead of time, claiming some of it never made it to them, parts of it were wrong, and some of it even contradictory.

PITTMAN: The department was not ignorant of intelligence indicating an attack of the size and scale we encountered on the 6th. There was no such intelligence.

NOBLES: Still, the Capitol Police made changes to their plans based on the intelligence they did get.

PITTMAN: We increased the size of protection details, deployed counter surveillance agents across D.C., increased our CDU platoons, including deployed hard platoons. We deployed SWAT teams, enlarged the security perimeter, and increased exterior and interior patrols, to include the subways.

NOBLES: But lawmakers pushed Pittman and Blodgett to acknowledge that, regardless of the excuses, the security plan did not work,

REP. JENNIFER WEXTON (D-VA): OK, so that you will have one line of communication coming from the top down to all the officers on the ground, is that what the purpose of it is?

PITTMAN: It doesn't align one communication down from the top. It's a structured system. It's tiered. The person with boots on the ground has certain responsibilities, and then it defines each of those persons in the incident command structure, what their role and responsibility is.

WEXTON: So is it safe to say that structure failed on January 6?

PITTMAN: Yes.

NOBLES: The lack of communication and the faulty intelligence continues to be a theme of these hearings. Security officials are in agreement that it is the root of what went wrong.

PITTMAN: On January 6, our incident command protocols were not adhered to, as they should have.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NOBLES: And there were a number of questions today about what happens next, and, in particular, this intense security posture that remains on Capitol Hill.

And Chief Pittman said that they're still worried about what could come in the future, particularly a joint session address by President Biden to members of Congress. Now, that hasn't been planned yet. But Pittman claimed there is concern that there are individuals that want to -- quote -- "blow up the Capitol and kill as many members as possible."

[16:05:08]

She didn't elaborate much on that claim. But, Jake, that security perimeter, that big wall that still wraps around the campus of the Capitol, Congresswoman Jaime Herrera Beutler revealing today it is costing taxpayers $2 million a week -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Ryan, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Let's discuss with our panel.

Phil Mudd, let me start with you.

This week, we have consistently heard law enforcement officials blaming a lack of intelligence on what happened on January 6. First of all, obviously, the people responsible for January 6 are the actual terrorists and the people who incited them, clearly.

But there was a failure here. I have to say, Phil, anyone paying attention was worried that things might get violent that day. What do you make of this blaming this on failure of intelligence? PHILIP MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: Well, thanks for being

polite, because I'm not.

What a complete whitewash. Here's the intelligence that you could have gotten off of CNN for free, if you pay your cable bill. By the way, some of these people have acknowledged this when they're providing testimony.

Thousands of people are showing up. You know what date. You know what time. You know that they're showing up near the Capitol. In other words, they're proximate to where the violence took place. You know that some of them are armed. You know they're angry, and you know the president's going to stir them up.

Do they want the Social Security numbers of everybody? (AUDIO GAP) question here that might go to, did we have precision on exactly how many hundreds of people would storm the Capitol? No, because we never anticipated that the commander in chief would encourage them to do that. He's at fault.

But what kind of intelligence do you want, Jake? The question that they need to answer is, if the intelligence was iffy, because we didn't have complete clarity on people who were engaging in political (AUDIO GAP) one question. What (AUDIO GAP)

TAPPER: Phil, you're breaking up a little bit.

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: Phil, go ahead. What's the one question? Because you're breaking up a little.

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: OK.

Let's just go to Abby for one second while we...

(CROSSTALK)

MUDD: (AUDIO GAP) what if this goes south?

TAPPER: OK.

Something's wrong with your connection there. Let me figure that out while we go to Abby.

Abby, we saw a lot of frustration from lawmakers today. I want you to take a listen to Republican Congresswoman Jaime Herrera Beutler.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JAIME HERRERA BEUTLER (R-WA): Part of the problem there was chaos was because each and every one of these officers, boots on the ground, commander or not, had to make a decision with no information. Like, there was no incoming help as far as they knew. They had no idea

what you guys were doing. I mean, I -- my hat is off to these brave men and women. They saved our lives. And I'm frustrated that I'm not hearing, this is what how we're fixing that right now. This is what we're doing.

And that's what I expect.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: There were not a lot of answers today from these two officials, the acting chief of Capitol Police and the acting House sergeant at arms.

But it is shocking what Congresswoman Herrera Beutler is saying in terms of the lack of basic communication with members of Congress that they were charged with protecting.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, absolutely.

I mean, the lack of communication is all the way through the entire incident. You had individual officers making decisions, life-or-death decisions, about where they would go and what they would be doing, how they would protect individual members. That's one of the reasons you saw during the impeachment hearings that extraordinary footage of one of the officers stopping Mitt Romney as he was heading toward the mob that might have killed him.

So, look, this was -- I think the officials acknowledged today that the failure was all around. But I think one thing that still hasn't really been answered is, why is there still silence? Why hasn't there been a real comprehensive debriefing to the public, not -- let alone to members of Congress, about what -- how they -- what problems they have identified, and how they are going to be resolved.

I think that is still an outstanding issue. You have car crashes where police officers come out and they give a briefing almost immediately after. There has been virtual silence from Capitol Police and its leadership.

And I think that's one of the reasons you saw so much frustration on both sides of the aisle today from lawmakers who are trying to pull it out of them, like pulling teeth, when this should have been information provided months ago, frankly.

TAPPER: And let me just also note that we used clips from Congresswoman Herrera Beutler, who is a Republican from Washington, who voted to certify the election, voted to impeach Donald Trump. We used a clip from Congresswoman Kay Granger, who was fairly early in terms of Republican members of Congress saying Donald Trump lost the election, it's time for us to acknowledge that.

But there are people who were complicit in this attack in so much ways who are there listening to these hearings and asking questions.

PHILLIP: Yes. TAPPER: I mean, people who fed the big lie that created this B.S. narrative that, if they went there on the Capitol, they could actually overturn the election, which was never going to happen.

[16:10:05]

They're walking among them. It's two-thirds of the House Republican Conference.

PHILLIP: And they are, in some cases, with indignation questioning the Capitol Hill officials about what occurred on January 6, when they themselves were a part of the reason that it happened in the first place.

And then you saw Senator Ron Johnson yesterday at the hearing spewing conspiracy theories from that committee room. Look, it's a real problem. It's going to be difficult for Congress to get to the bottom of this, when there are so many members who won't even acknowledge why it happened in the first place, who won't acknowledge their roles in what happened on that day.

And so some of these hearings have become kind of farcical, because they're about sort of scoring political points, about lying about whether there were infiltrators in the group who were pretending to be Trump supporters.

That is obviously not helpful to getting to the bottom of what actually happened there and what could happen again. That was the big morning from the hearing today, which is that this is not over. There are people who were involved in the insurrection January 6 who are actively plotting future attacks.

And members of Congress seem to be more concerned about covering their own political -- their own political selves after what happened on January 2.

TAPPER: There should be a hearing on Capitol Hill about the responsibility of members of Congress for what happened on that day. Of course, I'm sure we will never see such a hearing. But it would be interesting to happen.

Abby, thank you so much. Phil Mudd, sorry your computer conked out.

Let's move on.

It must be lonely for Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger, as the Illinois and speaks up and speaks out. He's going to join us live next to discuss the future of the Republican Party.

And then we're going to visit a public high school that has had in person learning since the fall, and they are not following all of the CDC guidelines. Coming up, let's take a look at how that's going.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [16:16:07]

TAPPER: And we're back with our politics lead.

The growing divide in the Republican Party spilling into the public today. Members of the House Freedom Caucus once again called for Congresswoman Liz Cheney, the number three Republican in the House, to lose her leadership role for daring to say that former President Trump should not speak at CPAC, the Conservative Political Action Conference, or, more importantly, have a role in the Republican Party moving forward after the January 6 insurrection.

Joining me now is Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger of Illinois.

Congressman, good to see you.

I want to play some sound from two of your fellow Republicans, Chip Roy and Andy Biggs, and listen to what they had to say about Liz Cheney today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. CHIP ROY (R-TX): You cannot stand up and make a statement that is so completely out of step with the Republican Conference and where the American people who support President Trump are.

REP. ANDY BIGGS (R-AZ): I also think she's absolutely devoid of any kind of political reading of what's going on in the Republican Party in this country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Now, to their point, it's accurate that you and Liz Cheney represent a minority of Republicans, both in Congress and, according to polling nationally, in terms of your views of President Trump and how he should no longer be the leader of the Republican Party.

So, what do you think of what Roy and Biggs had to say?

REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R-IL): Yes, Chip confuses me, because he was standing up making the case for certifying the election, low bar. But I don't understand this cancel culture move.

Look, they say she's not good at reading the political tea leaves. Well, that's what leadership is about, is leading political opinion. And Liz, I would say anybody, even if you disagree with her, you can say she's a tough leader. And she's saying what there are a lot of people that want to hear, and beyond what they want to hear, they need to hear.

You can continue to pledge that loyalty to Donald Trump. And many will, and I understand it. But we're also presenting a competing vision for an optimistic future and a party that is not working through subtraction and addition -- and instead going to do it through addition.

So, like this whole cancel culture stuff on the right just drives me nuts.

TAPPER: So, as you know, Chip Roy voted to certify the election. And he was not feeding -- he was not part of the crowd feeding the big lie.

Andy Biggs, on the complete other end of it, just, like, feeding all the lies out there. How many Republicans in Congress are privately agreeing with you and Liz Cheney and saying, you're right, I just can't -- I can't say it, but you're right, keep going?

KINZINGER: Oh, I think it's well over 50 percent. And I think that's just the ones that would feel comfortable to say it privately.

And there's a lot that are kind of waiting for an organic movement to kind of move on past Trump, but they don't want to necessarily lead it. Again, I don't question that. I understand it. It's a tough position to take.

But I have looked at it and said, people deserve an alternative competing vision. If the only person you ever hear from is Donald Trump, you can't blame somebody for thinking that is the only vision in the Republican Party.

But leadership, it's not about seeing where everybody's going and then just trying to like jump in front. It also is about leading people and showing them where to go and a brighter future based on optimism and hope, and less on darkness, division and fear.

TAPPER: So, President Trump is going to speak at the CPAC conference this weekend. A source tells CNN that Trump plans to use the speech as a resurgence, a comeback into the world of politics.

We're also told that he is going to spend the next few months and years seeking revenge on people like you and Liz Cheney. What do you make of it all?

KINZINGER: I mean, it's fine. It's his right to do it.

Most former presidents go away for a time and let the next person come in. But Donald Trump's not like any other former president. I don't think he can stand not being in the spotlight for a moment. So, it's fine.

[16:20:04]

It's his right to do it. People will make a choice. But the important thing is to show that competing vision of courage and truth. And so, today, for instance, Peter Meijer, who also voted to impeach, he and I disagree on a lot, but he believes in courage and truth. And we're going to do something on Clubhouse today at 5:00.

And we will end up uploading it as a podcast later, but just talking about, what is courage and truth and politics? What does it mean? Why has it been missing? Why is this really a new way forward?

It's just the first in a number of series, I think, of conversations that need to happen, by the way, not just for Republicans, but for everybody. And go to Country1st.com, by the way, with a 1, and see what this vision is.

TAPPER: Yes.

I noticed Congressman Meijer, who's an Army veteran, taking a shot at you for being an Air Force veteran in the promotion for that Clubhouse thing, which we will be right after this show.

I want to ask you about another issue, because two of the less positive traits of Trumpism -- and there are a lot of traits, and some of them are good, but two of the less positive, lies and indecency.

KINZINGER: Yes.

TAPPER: And I want talk to you for a second about indecency, because Democratic Congresswoman Marie Newman, who has a transgender daughter, put up a transgender-supporting flag outside her office, because Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene, the conspiracy theorist and bigot, has been out there opposing the Equality Act. And she works right across the hall.

It was an idea to say, hey, there -- we support these rights.

Now, obviously, the legislation aside, Congresswoman Greene responded by hanging a sign outside her office. It says -- quote -- "There are two genders, mail and female. Trust the science."

That's not actually what the science says. But she also went on to Twitter, and referred to Congresswoman Newman's daughter as her -- quote -- "biological" son, which is really a hideous thing to say, given how much abuse transgender kids and adults already face in this country.

You called Marjorie Taylor Greene's sad and garbage. Where's the rest of your party? This is just basic decency.

KINZINGER: Yes.

And I don't even like giving her the air of it.

But it's -- in the absence of her speaking, that's considered basically the Republican position. I think everybody needs to come out on that. You can disagree on legislation.

TAPPER: Right.

KINZINGER: But let's get back to some decency.

I talked to Representative Newman today. She called me and -- to thank me for my statement. I said, look, we can disagree on a lot of issues, but we're humans, right? Representative Newman's daughter goes through a lot of difficult times. You don't go throw something in her face. These are human beings. These are human beings that have their own life journey. And to sit there and say that my goal is retweets and anger and fear

and stoking division, at the cost of who knows what not and I will create whatever collateral damage, that's what has to end.

And nobody can call that out like somebody in their own party. So that's why I'm calling it out in the Republican Party, because that kind of garbage has got to stop. People are human beings.

TAPPER: Hard to disagree with that, but I'm sure that Congresswoman Greene might take issue with your idea of basic decency to human beings.

Congressman Adam Kinzinger of Illinois, thank you so much. Really appreciate it, as always.

And you can hear more from Congressman Kinzinger in just a few minutes. He's hosting a Country First conversation with Republican Congressman Peter Meijer of Michigan on Clubhouse. That starts at 5:00 p.m.

Good to see you, sir. Thanks so much.

KINZINGER: Good to see you. See you.

TAPPER: His speech Sunday likely just the beginning. New information about what Donald Trump has been planning, while golfing, I guess.

Then: increasing concern about two new homegrown variants of the coronavirus appearing on both coasts.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:28:22]

TAPPER: In our health lead today: Moments ago, President Biden marked the 50 millionth COVID vaccine administered in the U.S. since he took office, saying this is not a victory lap. The U.S. still has a long way to go.

Making it worse, as CNN's Erica Hill reports, are new homegrown variants.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ERICA HILL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A new coronavirus variant identified in New York City and other parts of the Northeast raising new questions, after early research shows it may evade the body's natural immunity and some treatments.

DR. JAY VARMA, SENIOR ADVISER FOR PUBLIC HEALTH, NEW YORK CITY MAYOR'S OFFICE: Not all variants are a public health concern. Some variants are just that. They're variants. They're just a little bit different.

HILL: Meantime, new studies, not yet peer-reviewed, show a separate variant first identified in California may not only be more contagious, but could cause more severe disease.

DR. MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, DIRECTOR, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA CENTER FOR INFECTIOUS DISEASE RESEARCH: While we need to be concerned about what we're seeing in New York and California or in other places around the world, we can't take our eye off, to me, what I think is the single most important variant right now in our headlights, and that is this B117, or the U.K. variant, which is rapidly spreading now throughout the United States.

HILL: Both Pfizer and Moderna testing booster shots, as vaccine makers work to get ahead of new variants.

DR. ASHISH JHA, DEAN, BROWN UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: This has been one of the really impressive things about the development of these new vaccine platforms, the mRNA ones, the Pfizer, the Moderna, and others as well, is that they can get updated pretty quickly, we think in about six to eight weeks.

HILL: About 21.5 million Americans are now fully vaccinated, New York City making up for last week's weather delays.

BILL DE BLASIO (D-NY), MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: We're actually adding capacity at a lot of our sites because we have extra vaccine.

HILL: That includes new overnight appointments at Citi Field.

Vice President Kamala Harris visiting a local D.C. pharmacy

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Good morning.

[16:30:00]