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The Lead with Jake Tapper

U.S. Announces Sanctions for Saudis Involved in Khashoggi Murder, Except Crown Prince; Tonight: House Votes on Biden's $1.9 Trillion Pandemic Relief Bill; Sen. Tim Kaine (D-VA) is Interviewed About U.S. Not Imposing Penalties on MBS and Senate Ruling on Minimum Wage Hike; Soon: FDA Committee to Vote on Johnson & Johnson Vaccine, Could Be in Arms as Soon as Next Week if Approved. Aired 4-4:30p ET

Aired February 26, 2021 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ERICA HILL, CNN HOST: Thanks so much for joining me. I'm Erica Hill, in for Brooke Baldwin.

[16:00:10]

THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER starts right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: And welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

We begin with breaking news in the world lead. This afternoon, the Biden administration released a long-awaited intelligence report on the grisly 2018 murder of "Washington Post" journalist Jamal Khashoggi, confirming the U.S. assessment that Saudi Arabia's crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman or MBS, personally approved the Saudi operation to capture or kill Khashoggi who was a critic of the Saudi royal family. The report from the director of national intelligence asserted that it's, quote, highly unlikely that such an operation could have been carried out without the crown prince's authorization.

The release of the report represents a shift from former President Trump who, as you may recall, refused to fully accept or even acknowledge the assessment which had been leaked to journalists, the assessment that the crown prince ordered the assassination, which involved the use of a bone saw. In fact, Trump was quoted in Bob Woodward's book "Rage," bragging about protecting the crown prince from U.S. outrage over the killings, saying, quote, I saved his ass, unquote.

The Biden administration has said the president will recalibrate the relationship with the U.S. ally. This afternoon the administration said it is banning 76 Saudi individuals from visiting the U.S. and sanctioning those involved in the Khashoggi murder, including the rapid intervention force except notably president Biden is imposing no restrictions and no sanctions against Crown Prince MBS himself, even though MBS is the man that the Biden administration says ordered this murder of a "Washington Post" journalist.

MBS will not be punished, the Biden administration says, which prompt this is uncomfortable question. Is the only difference between Trump bragging about saving MBS' ass and Biden acting as if he has no choice but to save MBS' ass, is the only difference the words surrounding the decision? Either way, the ass of the man who ordered a barbaric slaughter of an American-based journalist has been saved.

CNN's Alex Marquardt kicks off our coverage from Washington.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALEXANDER MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In black and white, the United States is saying that the de facto ruler of a close ally is responsible for murder. The intelligence community concluding Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman approved an operation in Istanbul, Turkey, to capture or kill Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi. The long-awaited unclassified report is barely three pages long and doesn't offer any new, hard evidence of an order from MBS, as the prince is known. It's based on MBS' control of decision making in the Kingdom since 2017 and support for using violent measures to silence dissidents abroad.

The report describes MBS as having absolute control of the Kingdom's security and intelligence organizations. The team of assassins, the report says, includes people associated with top MBS lieutenant, Saud al-Qahtani, and MBS bodyguards including Maher Mutreb, who travelled with MBS to United States.

This public intelligence report comes more than two years after the brutal murder in the Saudi consulate in Istanbul of "The Washington Post" columnist, who was long critical of MBS. The crown prince took responsibility but denied any personal involvement and the Trump administration, despite having access to all the classified details, ignored the law requiring a public intelligence report and instead provided cover for MBS.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT: The fact is, maybe he did, maybe he didn't.

MIKE POMPEO, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: There's no direct evidence linking him to the murder of Jamal Khashoggi.

MARQUARDT: Now the Biden administration has said that MBS is responsible, but it's not sanctioning him. Instead, the Treasury Department on Friday announced sanctions against a former senior Saudi intelligence official and an entity known as the Tiger Squad, several members whose members were allegedly among the assassins.

Failing to immediately punish MBS comes as a major disappointment to Khashoggi's family and supporters.

HATICE CENGIZ, KHASGOGGI'S FIANCEE: I am -- I am more devastated than ever before. Now I believe he will never come back.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MARQUARDT: And, Jake, I asked the White House to explain why MBS isn't being punished despite the fact that this report says he is clearly responsible for this murder. Now, a senior administration official told me that they are fulfilling their obligation to the law and that the goal here is to make sure something like this can never happen again.

[16:05:02]

Our White House team Sanctioning MBS was actually never really an option, that it was too complicated, they said, and could have jeopardized the U.S. military interests in Saudi Arabia.

Jake, moments ago, we've also heard from the government of Saudi Arabia. They've responded saying that it is, quote, that it completely rejects the assessment in this report submitted to the U.S.'s Congress regarding the murder of Saudi citizen, Jamal Khashoggi, rejection from Saudi Arabia, Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Alex Marquardt, thanks so much.

This afternoon, "The Washington Post" released a statement saying, quote, the man who authorized this brutal murder must be held fully accountable, unquote.

Let's bring in Fred Hiatt, he's the editorial page editor at "The Washington Post," where he was a colleague of Jamal Khashoggi.

Fred, thanks so much for being here.

So, let's start with the fact that the U.S. government finally released the report, and then we'll get to the fact that they're not calling out MBS. What's your reaction to MBS being called out by the U.S. government to begin with?

FRED HIATT, EDITORIAL PAGE EDITOR, THE WASHINGTON POST: Well, thanks for having me, Jake. I think it's a step forward. "The Post," starting with our publisher Fred Ryan, and all the way down, we've worked really hard to make sure this crime is not forgotten and that the people who are responsible are held accountable, for two reasons. And naming the people who are responsible is a good first step and ending the grotesque relationship that existed between the Trump administration and the royal family and the cover-up of the crime is also a good step.

TAPPER: So, I want to read one line from the report, quote, the crown prince viewed Khashoggi as a threat to the kingdom and broadly supported using violent measures if necessary to silence him. This is -- we need to underline this. This is about Khashoggi writing columns, sharing ideas and thoughts in the political mainstream about freedom and the need for democracy. That's the threat that MBS needed to respond to with a bone saw.

HIATT: That's the threat. And Jamal Khashoggi was a "Washington Post" columnist, a legal U.S. resident living in northern Virginia, lured by Saudi diplomats, including the brother of the crown prince, who was then the ambassador to the United States, to a consulate in Turkey where he was butchered and dismembered and, by the way, his remains have never been found, which is something else you would think we might be asking for right now.

And you're right, what was his threat? He had nothing but the best intentions for Saudi Arabia. He didn't even really want to be considered a dissident. He wanted to promote the reforms that on some days the crown prince says he is in favor of.

And he believed the way forward for his country was to allow some openness, some debate. And the idea that he was perceived as dangerous tells you a lot about the current regime.

TAPPER: Now, I want to touch on -- I want to address the fact that Trump made no secret about the fact that he was protecting MBS. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't have involvement, he said in 2018, et cetera, et cetera. But is there any difference when it comes to just the area of accountability for this brutal dictator, MBS, who had this columnist for "The Washington Post" murdered, when it comes to accountability, is there any difference in action between Trump and Biden?

HIATT: You know, it's a fair question. And I was struck this afternoon, Jake, by a statement from the treasury secretary, Janet Yellen, who said those involved in the horrid killing of Jamal Khashoggi must be held accountable. Well, now, we have in black and white that the United States government thinks the man most responsible is MBS. And is he going to be held accountable?

It matters not just because this was a terrible crime and there should be justice, but because dictators like MBS and like Xi Jinping in China, like Putin, increasingly are reaching across their borders to do this kind of crime. They are going outside their own countries to harass, to kidnap and to assassinate people they perceive as enemies.

And the question is, now that we have a government that, you know, fortunately, thankfully, is committed to democratic values, what is it going to do to change the calculus for dictators like this so that the next time, somebody like MBS thinks should I butcher a peaceful, honorable journalist like Jamal Khashoggi or should I not, the calculation will be different.

And so far, I don't see this administration doing anything that says to MBS, it would be better not to do this.

[16:10:05]

TAPPER: Yeah. That's very dispiriting.

Fred Hiatt, thank you so much for talking to us on what I imagine say difficult day and disappointing.

HIATT: Well, we live in hope that this isn't the last we're going to hear from the administration and from other democracies around the world.

TAPPER: Yeah, thanks, Fred. Appreciate it.

HIATT: Thanks for having me. TAPPER: Does the Biden administration go far enough in punishing MBS for Khashoggi's murder in the sense that they didn't punish him at all?

Next, we're going to talk to Democratic senator and member of the Armed Services Committee, Tim Kaine, he'll weigh in.

Then, we're just a few hours away from the House voting on President Biden's $1.9 trillion stimulus plan. But there is some major Democratic backlash aimed at the White House right now. We'll talk to you about that.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: And we're back with our politics lead. In just a few hours, the House of Representatives is expected to pass a massive coronavirus relief deal to the tune of nearly $2 trillion.

[16:15:02]

But the $15 minimum wage increase was slashed out of the Senate version of the bill at the last second, as CNN's Kaitlan Collins reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In a matter of hours, the House of Representatives will vote on President Biden's $1.9 trillion coronavirus relief bill.

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: As we work toward house passage, we take nothing for granted.

COLLINS: The package is a result of weeks of work by the White House and Democrats.

PSAKI: I'm just going to knock on wood here, if that's okay, if the bill passes. I certainly would expect to hear from the president.

COLLINS: The bill includes $1,400 stimulus checks, extended jobless benefits and increased to the child tax credit, additional funding for small businesses and $130 billion for schools.

The bill also includes a $15 minimum wage but Democrats' hopes of passing that were dashed when the Senate parliamentarian ruled it cannot be included, a move Biden predicted weeks ago.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I put it in, but I don't think it's going to survive.

COLLINS: Now progressive Democrats want to take the unlikely step of overruling the parliamentarian and some, including Congresswoman Ilhan Omar have even called for her to be fired. REP. ILHAN OMAR (D-MN): It is unacceptable, I believe, for us to, you

know, continue to come up with excuses on why we can't do the right thing on behalf of the American people when the Republicans are in charge and they have the majority, they do everything that they can.

COLLINS: Although raising the minimum wage was a major campaign promise, the White House said President Biden is, quote, disappointed but won't overrule it.

OMAR: That is disappointing, actually, to hear the White House say that.

COLLINS: Forced to focus on plan B, top Senate Democrats are now drafting an amendment that would penalize big companies that pay workers less than $15 an hour.

Once the House approves the stimulus bill, it heads to the Senate where it must be modified to satisfy all 50 Democrats, because if one votes against it, the bill fails.

BIDEN: I'm ready to hear any ideas on what will make the American Rescue Plan better, stronger and effective. But will have to answer who will get helped and who will get hurt.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS (on camera): So, Jake, it's tonight that this vote is set to happen but we're now learning that several Republicans in the House, mainly ones that are allies of former President Donald Trump, are going to be there to vote. Instead, they're in Orlando at CPAC, Conservative Political Action Conference, you see every year. Former President Trump is expected to speak at it on Sunday.

It's really kind of a "you go and show your face" if you want to run for president, if you want to have some kind of future in the party. Instead, they are there. They are going to be missing these votes. So, they'll be voting by proxy, Jake.

But in order to do that, you have to sign a letter with the house clerk, allowing another lawmaker to vote in your direction at your behalf. Well, but you sign that letter, you have to say I am unable to physically attend proceedings in the House chamber due to the ongoing public health emergency. But, Jake, they are at a very crowded conference in Orlando, Florida.

TAPPER: Yeah. So, they're lying.

Kaitlan Collins, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

Joining us now, Democratic Senator Tim Kaine of Virginia.

Senator, Senator, we'll get to the massive COVID relief deal in a moment. But I do want to start with breaking news on the murder of Jamal Khashoggi, who is one of your constituents. He lived in northern Virginia. You have said that Saudi Arabia needs to be held accountable for the

murder. The State Department has placed visa restrictions on 76 Saudis believed to be involved in threatening dissidents, Treasury sanctioned, the personal protective detail of MBS, but nothing, nothing for MBS. MBS is getting way scot-free.

What do you make of that?

SEN. TIM KAINE (D-VA): Well, Jake, MBS still needs to be held accountable for this, because I think the unclassified report released by the State Department shows he was directly implicated, and President Trump knew it.

Now, I will say that I appreciate what the administration has done in a short time, to scrap arm sales to Saudi Arabia, that have bypassed Congress, to scrap the U.S. support for the Saudis' horrible misprosecution of the war in Yemen, and now this action is important, but MBS still needs to be held accountable. We have to figure out how to do it.

TAPPER: So, I take your point on the larger reset on the relationship with Saudi Arabia, but when it comes to accountability for the guy that was in charge, who ordered the brutal assassination, murder of your constituent, a "Washington Post" columnist, for the crime of writing a column that said there should be more freedom and democracy in Saudi Arabia, MBS is getting away scot-free.

How is that any different from Donald Trump? Joe Biden and Donald Trump have the same position, save MBS's ass.

KAINE: Well, Jake, I think you have to look at everything to say the positions are not the same, because President Trump was doing transfers of nuclear technology to the Saudis and not telling Congress, weapon sales, bypassing Congress, sneaking in the U.S. into this war in Yemen without informing Congress, all to butter up the Saudis.

[16:20:14]

And Joe Biden is making a dramatic change to that.

TAPPER: Right, but I'm just talking -- just on the topic of accountability for MBS, and just for the record, Obama is the one that started with that war in Yemen, but go ahead.

KAINE: Well, but I'm not sure it was done in the sort of secretive way that Donald Trump pushed it towards. And we had to stop him from doing it.

But, no, I'm not happy with the lack of accountability for MBS. He ordered it. President Trump knew it. And there needs to be accountability.

As of today, there's not yet accountability for MBS. We're going to have to explore in Congress what we can do. TAPPER: In just a few hours, the House is going to vote on President

Biden's $1.9 trillion relief package for COVID. A lot of your progressive colleagues are very unhappy with the Senate ruling by the parliamentarian that the $15 minimum wage increase will not be included in this bill, under these rules, require only 51 votes.

So, what should Democrats do now, a stand-alone bill on federal minimum wage increase?

KAINE: I think that's what we need to do, Jake. The budget reconciliation process, as you understand, is very sort of arcane. Most things in the Senate take 60 votes. Right now, under Senate rules to legislate, a budget reconciliation bill, you can do with 50 votes, but each provision of the bill has to be primarily budgetary in nature rather than a policy change.

And the Senate parliamentarian has ruled that an increase in the minimum wage that would affect vast swaths of the private economy more than the federal budget is more of a policy change than a budgetary change.

But I will say to anybody watching this show, Democrats are unified about raising the minimum wage. And if we can't do it through a reconciliation bill, we'll figure out another way to do it. There may be things in this reconciliation bill we can do to set the stage.

You reported, and your other reporters have, about penalizing other companies that don't conform to this minimum wage goal that Democrats share. We'll explore those. But if we get reconciliation, we're going to do it.

TAPPER: We don't have time but I just want to note for the record that Democrats might be united on the idea of raising the minimum wage. You're not united on how much to raise it to. Manchin and Sinema, your colleagues, have expressed concern that $15 an hour is too much.

But we can talk about that next time you're here. I hope you come back. Senator Tim Kaine of the Commonwealth of Virginia -- thanks so much, sir.

KAINE: You bet.

TAPPER: Any moment, the Johnson & Johnson vaccine could, could cross one of the final hurdles for authorization, when shots could start going into arms, that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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TAPPER: In our health lead today right now, an FDA advisory committee is deciding if it should recommend approval for the single dose Johnson & Johnson vaccine. If given the green light, shots could be in arms as early as next week.

CNN's chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us now.

Sanjay, assuming the Johnson & Johnson vaccine gets the okay, walk us through the timeline. When could this vaccine be mass distributed?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICLA CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. I think it could happen, you know, early next week, we could start to see millions of doses go out.

So, right now, this FDA Advisory Committee is meeting, even within your program, whoa may hear from them about whether or not they're recommending this to the FDA for authorization. We think they will. After that, there's a committee, a similar sort of committee at the CDC that is sort of the who, when, how sort of committee, meaning who should get this, when should they get it, how is it going to be distributed?

And then the CDC, Dr. Rochelle Walensky signs off on that. That could all happen this weekend, Jake, fast. We saw this with Pfizer and Moderna. And we know Johnson & Johnson has been manufacturing vaccine at the risk for sometime, before the authorization. So, early next week, possibly millions of doses out.

TAPPER: The J&J vaccine is a single dose. Pfizer, Moderna require two shots. How will that impact efforts at mass vaccination?

GUPTA: Well, you know, in the beginning, we're hearing that there's, you know, 3 to 4 million doses that will go out. I think it will take some time for -- to feel the impact of this Johnson & Johnson vaccine, but I say two things. One is that by the end of March, and I talk to people on the manufacturing side of J&J just yesterday. They say by the end of March, they do confirm some 20 million doses are likely to be available. That's 20 million people, because it's a single shot.

And then as you know, Jake, over the summer, 100 million doses. I think what's interesting as well is that there's a lot of people who, you know, for whatever reason, because they may be homeless, they have -- may have transient -- living in transient communities, the idea of them getting a second shot is a little more challenging. This may be targeted at some of those communities so it could be quite helpful.

TAPPER: Some people might look at the efficacy of the J&J, Johnson & Johnson vaccine, which is 66.1 percent effective, versus the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines which are 95 and 94 percent respectively. They might say, oh, well, J&J is inferior. It's less.

You say that's not the case.

GUPTA: Yeah. I think it's really challenging to compare apples to apples here. I mean, there's a couple of things. First of all, I think the thing that people care about the most with these vaccines is how likely is it to keep me from getting really sick, hospitalized or dying, and all these vaccines are really good at that.

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