Return to Transcripts main page

The Lead with Jake Tapper

Meghan Markle Speaks Out; CDC Issues Guidelines For Vaccinated. Aired 4-4:30p ET

Aired March 08, 2021 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:50]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Pamela Brown, in today for Jake Tapper.

And we began with the health lead.

Today, the CDC released its first set of guidance for fully vaccinated Americans, loosening some specific restrictions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, CDC DIRECTOR: If grandparents have been vaccinated, they can visit their daughter and her family, even if they have not been vaccinated, so long as the daughter and her family are not at risk for severe disease.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: But vaccinated Americans will still need to wear a mask in public or in many other settings with unvaccinated people. And travel is still being discouraged for now.

There was also a turning point in the battle against coronavirus today. There are now more than 31 million people fully vaccinated in the us. And that is more than all of the Americans who have been infected during this entire pandemic, as CNN's Nick Watt reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WALENSKY: You can visit your grandparents if you have been vaccinated and they have been too.

NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Finally, guidance for the fully vaccinated, how the government would like you to behave.

WALENSKY: Fully vaccinated people can visit with other fully vaccinated people indoors without wearing a mask or physical distancing. Visit with unvaccinated people from a single household who are at low risk of severe COVID-19 disease indoors without wearing masks or physical distancing.

WATT: But even fully vaccinated still, avoid travel, and out and about, still wear a mask. WALENSKY: There is still a small risk that vaccinated people could

become infected with milder or asymptomatic disease and potentially even transmit the virus to others who are not vaccinated.

WATT: They will update as the science evolves. But, for now, definitely don't do this, a mask burning protest in Boise, Idaho, over the weekend.

GOV. BRAD LITTLE (R-ID): Yes, it's not helpful for people to be burning mass. We want people to choose to make the right decision to wear a mask.

WATT: But will they?

Meantime, nearly 2.2 million vaccine doses now going into arms on the average day.

ANDY SLAVITT, SENIOR WHITE HOUSE ADVISER FOR COVID RESPONSE: I know the pace is challenging. This is a war. We can't let up.

WATT: New cases now averaging just over 60,000 a day, lowest number in about five months. But about 20 percent of those cases could be the more contagious variant first identified in the U.K., according to one testing company.

DR. MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, DIRECTOR, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA CENTER FOR INFECTIOUS DISEASE RESEARCH: That today is wrecking havoc in parts of Europe. We are in the eye of the hurricane right now.

WATT: Still, there is a creeping normalcy, this past weekend, air travel biggest numbers since the holidays.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Miami is the place to be.

WATT: Spring break is here.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WATT: And, already, pushback from the airline industry to that CDC guidance that even fully vaccinated people should still avoid travel.

Airlines for America says that, with the air filtration in planes and all the masks, the risk really is very low. But, of course, travel is not just your time on the airplane. And the CDC director says that every time we see a surge in travel, we see a surge in cases -- Pamela.

BROWN: All right, Nick, thanks for that.

And joining me now to discuss is CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

As always, Sanja, great to see you -- Sanjay, rather. It's great to see you.

Walk us through exactly what the CDC says is safe once we have been fully vaccinated.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Sure, yes.

And, as Nick said, we have been waiting for these for some time, but, basically, defining who is fully vaccinated, starting off with that. It's two weeks after you have gotten your second shot, if it's the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine, or two weeks after that single shot of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine.

After that, it's really a question of, if you have been fully vaccinated, and everyone else around you, if you're gathering with people who have been fully vaccinated, you can get together without masks, without physical distancing in a way that's going to feel much more normal.

[16:05:01]

If you have been fully vaccinated and are going to go to a household who's not necessarily been fully vaccinated, but have been low risk, because they have been mostly at home, then you could do the same, really no masks or distancing necessary in those situations. Those are considered low-risk situations.

You're going to see a lot of this next graphic here from the CDC, these visuals to try and make this clear. Green dots represent people who have been fully vaccinated. Orange dots represent those who have not yet been vaccinated, and you get an idea.

So if everyone's been vaccinated, no extra public health precautions. If one group has been vaccinated, the other group is low risk, no public health precautions. It's -- this is basically what we're starting to see the beginning of as a first step here, Pamela.

BROWN: And you actually just spoke to Andy Slavitt, who was working on the White House's COVID response team about this process of putting together these recommendations that we have been waiting for, for a long time, as you said.

What did he tell you?

GUPTA: Well, it was interesting. There's a few things.

First of all, the recommendations themselves came from the CDC. And he was clear to point that out. There was no interference, because that's been a concern, as you know, in the past, but no interference with anyone else to say you need to do this. He said this was clearly from the CDC, their scientific guidelines.

He also said, we're going to see a lot less sort of binary recommendations, absolutely do this, absolutely don't do this, and more sort of low risk, medium risk, high risk sort of recommendations, to give people a sense of just how concerning things are, so they can start to make smarter decisions.

Also, they used the word in this briefing today first step about a dozen times, Pamela. And I think this is an important point. Again, this is the first step, the first time we're hearing these sorts of recommendations.

Future recommendations, he said, are going to directly be tied to vaccination rates, so 10 percent right now. In two weeks, we could be at 20 percent, at which point there will be new recommendations. So, every time we go up, sort of one logarithmic step up in terms of vaccinations, there will probably be new recommendations that are going to be looser, let people do more things.

BROWN: It's interesting that he said they're going to be making recommendations based on risk coming up, because one of the big questions coming out of today, of course, was traveling. I think people are still wondering, why can't you travel? Why are they recommending against travel if you have been vaccinated?

Dr. Leana Wen says this guidance is far too cautious, that the U.S. is missing an opportunity to tie a person's vaccination status to their level of access to openings, for example, telling people that, if they're willing to get vaccinated, they can freely travel. Do you agree?

GUPTA: It's tough. It's a tough call, Pamela.

I mean, I talked to several people about this point. I agree with Lena on this. But it's -- I think the concern is that this would not be considered a low-risk situation, because you could encounter a lot of people who may be unvaccinated from different households Some people may have vulnerabilities in terms of their age or preexisting conditions.

So, at a time when you still have 60,000 or so people becoming infected every day, is -- are you going to add that into the mix for recreational travel? Essential travel, yes. But, again, I think, within a couple of weeks, or maybe even sooner than that, depending on vaccination rates, my guess is, we're going to hear looser recommendations around things like travel. It's not absolutely clear- cut.

I mean, that's the message I'm sort of getting as I talk to members of the task force. There's a nuance to it. And I think they're erring on the side of caution.

BROWN: They're erring on the side of caution. But the underpinning of all of this, right, is to protect those who have not been vaccinated, and the fact that there is still a bit of an open question about how much people who have been vaccinated could be carriers and transmit the virus.

What is the latest on the research into that, if you have been vaccinated, the level of risk you pose to others in terms of transmitting the virus?

GUPTA: This is such an interesting point, Pamela, and I will preface by saying that old adage absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

And all I mean by that is that, I think it's pretty clear from a commonsense standpoint that, if you have been vaccinated, you are far less likely to become infected, and even less likely to become infected to the point where you could transmit the virus.

They have got to prove that and that takes time. You have got to follow these people out that are in these clinical trials for some time, and actually show that. Is it possible that, in some situations, someone who's been vaccinated could still carry enough virus in their nose and mouth to infect other people?

There's a hypothetical concern of that still, because they haven't proven that not to be the case. But I think it's really unlikely. I mean, I think about this all the time. I have been vaccinated. I do still wear a mask when I go out in public, but I'm very confident, fairly confident that I'm not a potential carrier anymore.

BROWN: And I'm sure we will be learning more about that.

[16:10:00]

Temperatures are getting warmer. More families are going to want to head to vacation. I mean, look, so many people have been locked down this last year.

Do you think that there is a chance we're going to have these looser guidelines by the summer once more Americans are vaccinated? It sounds like, based on your conversation, we're going to be seeing that.

GUPTA: Yes, look, with great humility, I say, yes, I think we will have -- with humility, because we have been -- we get surprised by this virus, and certainly the variants that everyone talks about could still add -- throw a curveball into all this.

But I really do think, when I have been doing the math, talking to people who are really responsible for the vaccine rollout, understanding how the recommendations are likely to change probably every couple of weeks or even faster than that, I absolutely think that, by summertime, we should be in a very different spot.

I mean, I think we could even be in functional herd immunity by that point. Now, it is possible, Pamela, that, come fall, the numbers start to go back up again, as we saw last fall. But I do think this summer, around these summer breaks that you're talking about, I think we're going to be in a very different and beneficial position.

BROWN: So you think, really quick, that the numbers could go back up in the fall, even though most people can be vaccinated by them?

Because, as we know, the supply will be available in May. Now, that doesn't mean everyone can get vaccinated then, but you still think, in fall, we could see another rise?

GUPTA: Yes, I mean, it depends. If we have a third of the country still not vaccinated because of hesitancy or other reasons, then, yes, you may see numbers that are much lower than they are now, but then go up. I don't -- if we get down one in 100,000 people per day becoming infected, that's -- and then it goes up from there, it would still be going up, but I don't think it would feel as monumental or significant as what we have right now.

BROWN: And just reminder that, these months, March and April are still very important as well in terms of those mitigation efforts.

Dr. Walensky just said that today as well.

GUPTA: Yes.

BROWN: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, we could talk to you the whole show, but, unfortunately, we have to cover some other news. Thank you so much.

GUPTA: OK. You got it. Thank you.

BROWN: Well, a delay to the final step before President Biden signs the $1.9 trillion COVID relief bill -- new details on the timing.

Plus, the world reacting to the shocking Meghan and Harry interview, except for one place.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:16:32]

BROWN: That bombshell interview with Prince Harry and Meghan is airing right now in the U.K.

And so far, the royal palace is mum on the explosive claims. On race, the couple told Oprah Winfrey, before the birth of their son, Archie, there were conversations within the royal institution about how dark his skin color might be. On mental health, Meghan revealed at one point she felt suicidal and was turned down when she begged for help.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MEGHAN MARKLE, DUCHESS OF SUSSEX: I went to the institution. And I said that I needed to go somewhere to get help, said that I have never felt this way before and I need to go somewhere. And I was told that I couldn't, that it wouldn't be good for the institution.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: CNN royal correspondent Max Foster has the reaction this interview is getting today across the pond.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BORIS JOHNSON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: I have spent a long time now not commenting on royal family matters. And I don't intend to depart from that today.

MAX FOSTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Addressing the elephant in the room, U.K. Prime Minister Boris Johnson sidestepped the question of Harry and Meghan's bombshell interview with Oprah Winfrey, commenting only about his admiration of the queen and her role as unifier.

The palace so far having no comment whatsoever on the interview that highlighted exactly just how disunified the royal family had become, leading to the so-called Megxit.

PRINCE HARRY, DUKE OF SUSSEX: There's a lot of hurt that's happened.

FOSTER: Airing this hour in full for the first time in the U.K.

The question is, just how damning will this interview be to the royal family? After all, it was everything it was billed to be and more, detailing a royal rift between father and son.

PRINCE HARRY: I feel really let down.

FOSTER: A gulf between brothers who had weathered so much together.

PRINCE HARRY: I love William to bits, but we were on different paths.

FOSTER: Candid and intimate, no topic off-limits.

MARKLE: I just didn't want to be alive anymore. And that was a very clear and real and frightening constant thought.

FOSTER: The revelation that, amongst other things, isolation, a barrage of character assassinations by the British tabloids had driven the duchess of Sussex to thoughts of suicide, in and of itself, is shocking, leading to a show of support today from the White House.

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: For anyone to come forward and speak about their own struggles with mental health and tell their own personal story, that takes courage.

FOSTER: But the insidious undercurrent of racism perhaps the most damning claim in the most explosive interview to rock the royal family since his mother's interview with Martin Bashir.

PRINCE HARRY: What I was seeing was history repeating itself, but more perhaps, or definitely far more dangerous, because then you add race in.

FOSTER: One of the most jaw-dropping accounts in the raw, emotional interview with Oprah Winfrey, that unnamed members of the royal family were worried about the skin color of Harry and Meghan's son.

MARKLE: And also concerns and conversations about how dark his skin might be when he's born.

OPRAH WINFREY, PRODUCER/PHILANTHROPIST: What?

MARKLE: And...

WINFREY: Who is having that conversation with you? What?

MARKLE: So...

[16:20:04]

WINFREY: There is a conversation. Hold up. Stop right now.

MARKLE: There are several conversations.

FOSTER: Which member or members of the royal family was it? Harry and Meghan wouldn't say.

Oprah Winfrey on Monday only saying she knows who it wasn't.

WINFREY: But he wanted to make sure that I knew, and if I had an opportunity to share it, that it was not his grandmother nor his grandfather that were a part of those conversations.

FOSTER: Leaving open the question, just who could have said it?

Another shock, their son wouldn't be given a title or the security protections normally afforded to members of the royal family, with no reason given for why.

MARKLE: The idea of our son not being safe, and also the idea of the first member of color in this family not being titled in the same way that other grandchildren would be.

FOSTER: Racism clearly emerging from the interview as one of the key factors driving Harry and Meghan from the royal family, the couple saying, had they only had the family's support, they would have gladly stayed.

The very tabloids that Harry and Meghan say drove their mental health to the brink were swift to get the splashy headlines, "The Daily Mail" U.K. saying: "Harry Twists the Knife."

Meanwhile, the broadsheet "The Daily Telegraph" saying: "Sussexes Deliver Enough Bombshells to Sink a Flotilla."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: The interview currently playing out here in the U.K., the streets here in Windsor, where the Sussexes have their U.K. home, empty.

It is lockdown, of course. I think, though, Pam, that means that more people will be sitting down to watch this interview, this moment in royal and British history, and perhaps it may sway their opinions here.

BROWN: There is so much to process from this interview. I think people in the U.S. who watched it are still processing all of these bombshells that came from this interview.

More than 17 million people watched it in the U.S. as it's airing in the U.K. right now. Still not even a brief statement from the palace. You have covered the royals for years. What do you read into that? FOSTER: It's very hard to tell. I have spoken to some of the people

behind the scenes. They're just saying, we're not expecting anything quite yet.

I suspect the various households in the royal establishment are coming together. They're sitting around a table. They're trying to get together one unified response to this, but a lot of was so personal, I think emotions are probably running quite high.

Are they going to give a no comment? I think that's very unlikely. The other option is that they're allowing Meghan and Harry to have their voice, letting it to breathe here. I don't know if that's true. A statement is expected.

I think that's widely view -- the view of the British media here. They're under pressure to come out with a statement. And then it becomes, what do they say? Is it a comprehensive rebuff of all of those allegations that came out of the interview? Or is it something that says, we're going to look at this and try to learn from it?

It's impossible to tell right now, but a lot of pressure on the palace to come up with something in response to this profound interview.

BROWN: So, the palace knew this interview was coming. But did they know beforehand what the couple said?

FOSTER: No, they knew nothing at all.

I can tell you, Pam, that I was having conversations last night with people in the palace, and they were asking me what I knew about what was in it. I think it's pretty clear that it was a very tight group that had access to this. I think even some people in the Sussex office hadn't seen it. So no one knew what to expect.

Of course, it was touted as this massive blockbuster, a bombshell interview. I think it exceeded anything that anyone expected, such severe allegations, particularly about duty of care, particularly about accusations of racism, pointed at the established institution really at the center of British society.

BROWN: And speaking of racism, I want to play Oprah's reaction this morning on the skin color comments from the couple. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: When you say you were surprised about the skin tone conversation, were you surprised that would be true inside the palace or were you surprised they were telling you about it?

WINFREY: I was surprised that they were telling me about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Is that the big shocker here for a lot of people, that this couple was saying the quiet parts of society out loud?

FOSTER: Yes, and just the basic revelations and who on earth was it within the family that was talking to Harry about skin color?

I think everyone is profoundly shocked by that. And everyone wants to know who it was. Oprah adding today, of course, that it wasn't the queen or Prince Philip. So, the group is getting smaller of suspects, I'd say, Pam, and people want to know who it was.

BROWN: All right, Max Foster, thank you for bringing us the latest there from England.

And on the issue of mental health, if you or someone you know needs help in the U.S., you can call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-8255. Resources outside the U.S. include the International Association for Suicide Prevention. They're online at IASP.Info. You could also find help at BefriendersWorldwide.org.

[16:25:12]

And coming up on this Monday: President Biden is preparing for a first in his presidency.

That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Kamala Harris, the first female vice president of the United States, is speaking now at the White House on International Women's Day before President Biden delivers remarks. Let's listen.

[16:30:00]