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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Cuomo Response to Biden: That's True, If You Committed a Crime You Should Be Prosecuted; CDC: Strains First Detected in California are "Variants of Concern"; Biden to Would-Be Migrants: Don't Come, Don't Leave Your Town. Aired 4-4:30p ET

Aired March 17, 2021 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:01]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: President Biden says Major has an 85 percent approval rating at the White House which puts him well ahead of most human occupants.

I'm Brooke Baldwin here in New York. Thank you so much for being with me.

To Washington we go.

THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER starts now.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

And we begin today with the politics lead.

Moments ago, Democratic New York Governor Andrew Cuomo tried to downplay the various -- very serious statement from President Biden about the myriad allegations of sexual harassment and inappropriate behavior that have been launched against Cuomo. President Biden on air this morning said that if the allegations of sexual harassment against Cuomo are proven to be true in the investigations going on, then Cuomo should resign.

And then Biden, bringing up on his own with no prompting said, quote, he probably will end up being prosecuted, too, unquote were that to happen.

Governor Cuomo moments ago attempted some rank revisionism on what Biden said.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): If you -- if you committed a crime, you can be prosecuted. That's true, but what President Biden said was we should do an investigation. The question to President Biden starts with do you think the governor should resign, or do you think there should be a review first? And the president said there should be a review.

(END AUDIO CLIP) TAPPER: That's not what happened. Here's what President Biden told ABC News George Stephanopoulos.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS CHIEF ANCHOR: I know you've said that you want the investigation to continue. If the investigation confirms the claims of the women, should he resign?

JOSEPH R. BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yes. I think he'll probably end up being prosecuted, too.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Quite different.

CNN's Brynn Gingras joins me now from Albany.

And, Brynn, you listened to the Cuomo news conference. In addition to the revisionism that he attempted, what jumped out at you about how the governor characterized what's going on versus what the attorney general is investigating?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, well, Jake, I think you said it well. He just tried to downplay it, and when we were listening to this news conference, the governor actually didn't answer the question until it was actually asked twice. One reporter sort of paraphrased what the president had said in that interview with George Stephanopoulos, and he said you characterized what he said wrong and then asked for the next question. The follow-up question the reporter verbatim read what you just played for your viewers, and that's when Cuomo actually had forced to really say the comment that you again just played for your viewers.

So, again, you mentioned, Biden is the one who brought up this idea of prosecution which is something that says basically he thinks that these harassment allegations, these other allegations against the governor are so egregious that maybe prosecution might come into play. But keep in mind, right now, Jake, the New York attorney general's investigation into Cuomo, it's just a fact-finding probe at this point. It isn't a criminal prosecution inquiry investigation.

However, Letitia James, the New York attorney general here, has said if she does find criminality in this investigation, if the attorneys who are leading it find it, it will be referred to a prosecutor for possibly a criminal investigation. So it was certainly interesting how the president said that and then how Cuomo responded to it the second time today.

TAPPER: And in addition to the attorney general of the state of New York, Letitia James doing her investigation, there's also this impeachment inquiry into these allegations. The New York state assembly today announced the name of the law firm that will be leading the inquiry. The first accuser to speak out against Cuomo, Lindsey Boylan, and the lawyer for the second of Cuomo's accusers, pardon me, Charlotte Bennett, both of them have raised issues with this law firm picked by the New York state assembly which we should note is run by the Democratic Party.

GINGRAS: Yeah, that's right. Not each just those two accusers, Jake, but a lot of people on social media because they noticed a conflict of interest. Now, that law firm was announced by the speaker today as Davis, Polk and Wardwell law firm and the notable thing is that a member of the law firm, a partner for decades, was a person or is a person who is close to Cuomo, has been appointed to several board positions in the state by Cuomo, is also married to the chief judge in this state, Janet DiFiore, who you remember the governor tried to get her to oversee the investigation that the attorney general now has in her hands.

So, there was a lot of questions as to why exactly this law firm was picked and like you said Charlotte Bennett's attorney came out and said, you know, she may not participate in this investigation. She has paused to because of this conflict of interest, so we'll have to see how that goes forward, but I will tell you the speaker has said they didn't find any conflict of interest when actually picking this law firm for this investigation, which is getting started.

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TAPPER: All right. Brynn Gingras in Albany, New York, thanks so much.

Let's discuss.

Gloria Borger, let me start with you. Let's talk about President Biden saying not only should Cuomo resign if the allegations are proven true but then bringing up on his own that he could be prosecuted. That seemed really significant.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: It did, and that's exactly why Governor Cuomo tried to downplay it, because it is significant. The president knows and understands what the story is here and that lots of Democrats are calling for Cuomo to resign office.

The president is not going that far. He has called for a thorough investigation, but I think this was his way of saying to Cuomo this is how serious I believe this is, that should they find anything, this can lead to criminal prosecution, period, and Cuomo saying, well, he didn't say that. He said, you know, that we should have an investigation first.

Yes, he did say that, but on his own, as you point out, he raised the issue of criminal prosecution which he was not asked about.

TAPPER: Yeah. I don't think Cuomo called it an investments I think he kept calling it a review.

BORGER: A review, right.

TAPPER: An interesting language.

BORGER: Uh-huh. TAPPER: And, Nia, I mean this, comes after 16 out of the 19 House Democrats representing New York have called for Cuomo to accept down. The Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer and Senator Kirsten Gillibrand, both from New York, called for him to step down, and here you have Biden raising the specter of prosecution. Cuomo, of course, trying to act as if none of this is happening.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Exactly. That's been his posture all along, and at this point I think he's relying on polls in New York that say that most people do not want him to resign. I think it's something like 50 percent of folks want him to stay in office.

The thing about this is he does not have to resign, right? The only way to remove him from office is the impeachment proceedings that seem to be moving fairly quickly with Democrats leading the charge. It has been something of a sea change for Andrew Cuomo over these last days to see how many top Democrats have come out against him and most recently with Biden who hadn't really been out front on this, talking about this to come out and now say that these charges are very serious, these allegations that a number of women have made against him could lead to prosecution if it is found that he's guilty of these allegations.

TAPPER: And, Gloria, you and I are old enough to remember the Clinton years.

BORGER: Yeah.

TAPPER: And there's a script going on here that's very familiar. You see Governor Cuomo doing events with African-American political leaders, people who are a key part of the Democratic coalition, and you see this effort by people in his circle to smear his accusers.

BORGER: Yeah. We went through that with Bill Clinton. What is different here that is sort of interesting to me is the Democratic Party itself because, Jake, you remember at that time that the Democratic Party itself circled the wagons around Bill Clinton. Women's groups circled the wagons around Bill Clinton and protected him.

In this particular instance, it's the Democrats were calling Bill Clinton who are now coming out and saying, uh-uh, not again. And so, you see the opposite happening with a lot of these Democrats and a lot of, you know, generally pro-Democratic groups saying we cannot excuse this.

TAPPER: And we should note, Nia, there are a lot of Republicans in New York, Congressman Lee Zeldin, Congresswoman Elise Stefanik who are acting very offended by what Cuomo has done who had not one word to say about the dozens of women who accused former President Trump of not only sexual harassment but in some cases sexual assault.

HENDERSON: Yeah. A lot of hypocrisy there among Republicans who are pointing to governor Cuomo and the situation he finds himself in, and initially they were pointing to Democrats and saying why aren't Democrats calling on him to resign? Why aren't Democrats treating him much more harshly?

And as Gloria pointed out we've seen what has happened over the last many days with Democrats really forcefully calling on him to resign, and listen, this is different from what we saw with Bill Clinton. We saw something I think of a change with what happened with Al Franken and this party, Democrats, knowing that -- that women are such an important part of their constituency and in somebody like -- like Joe Biden you have somebody who the face of the Violence Against Women's Act and that is something that you'll hear him talk about I think throughout his presidency.

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Important for his administration I think to put a line in the sand and come out in the way that they did against Governor Cuomo.

TAPPER: Yeah, Biden would not be in office if it were not for women voters.

HENDERSON: Right, that's right.

TAPPER: Nia-Malika Henderson, Gloria Borger, thanks to both of you. Appreciate it.

The one question the CDC director refused to answer not once, not twice but three times about the pandemic today. What is it?

Plus, new details about the suspect accused of shooting and killing eight people at spas throughout Georgia. What his roommate is now revealing about this horrific crime. That's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our health lead, after several weeks of good news today, growing concerns that maybe changing. More than a dozen states are now seeing a rise in COVID cases, and the CDC is warning about two new strains first detected in California that they are calling variants of concern, which the CDC says may be 20 percent more transmissible.

And as CNN's Alexandra Field reports now, today, the CDC director also sparred with Republicans on Capitol Hill over who is responsible for coronavirus deaths in the U.S.

[16:15:07]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a yes or no, Dr. Walensky.

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Not once, not twice, but three times CDC Director Rochelle Walensky refusing to say if she would blame former President Trump for 500,000 American deaths.

REP. DAVID MCKINLEY (R-WV): Is that a accurate statement that Trump killed 500,000 people?

WALENSKY: I am -- came into this office on January 20th.

MCKINLEY: Did he or did he not kill 500,000 people?

WALENSKY: I think the effect of this pandemic is multifactorial.

REP. GARY PALMER (R-AL): I would really appreciate it if you would give a straight answer yes or no.

WALENSKY: There are many, many reasons why we as a country were ill- prepared to tackle this pandemic that resulted in over 500,000 deaths.

FIELD: For now, the administration working to keep the focus on ramp- upping vaccinations nationwide. Over 73 million people have received at least one dose of vaccine, nearly 40 million people now fully vaccinated.

President Joe Biden focusing on the next hurdle ahead, vaccine hesitancy.

BIDEN: I just don't understand this sort of macho thing about I'm not going to get the vaccine. I have a right as an American, my freedom to not do it. Well, why don't you be a patriot and protect other people?

FIELD: The urgency to get as many people vaccinated as possible growing as the CDC officially labels five strains of the virus already detected in the U.S. as variants of concern, meaning they could be more transmissible and perhaps less treatable.

DR. WILLIAM HASELTINE, PRESIDENT, ACCESS HEALTH INTERNATIONAL: We don't have enough people vaccinated yet to make a real difference in infections.

FIELD: Those variants fueling worries about another surge with warning signs already appearing in states across the country. Nationally, new cases remain down overall, but 14 states are reporting a week-to-week increase of more than 10 percent. Delaware, Montana and Alabama all posting gains of more than 30 percent with Michigan leading the way. Cases there are up a whopping 53 percent since last week.

DR. ASHISH JHA, DEAN, BROWN UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: It's going to be a close call. We're vaccinating really well. That's the good news. These variants are spreading pretty quickly across the country. That's the bad news.

FIELD: Spring breakers are flooding beaches and bars in some cities. That's worrying to health officials combined with St. Patrick's Day parties. The CDC hasn't yet issued updated travel guidance for people who are fully vaccinated.

WALENSKY: We're revisiting the travel question.

FIELD: Yet there's already a new record stretch of air travel during the pandemic. According to the TSA, more than 7 million people flying in just the last six days.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do think the next six to eight weeks could be rough.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FIELD (on camera): And, Jake, while we are expecting to hear some new travel guidance from the CDC, we're also expecting to hear new guidance from the agency on schools. They are currently looking at studies that show that three feet of physical distancing in schools could be sufficient versus six feet, and that may go a long way towards helping the Biden administration accomplish a key goal, getting more kids back to school -- Jake.

TAPPER: Very important issue. Alexandra Field in New York, thank you so much.

Joining us to discuss, CNN chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

Sanjay, what worries you the most about these two new coronavirus strains?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, so these two variants of concern are more transmissible, and I think that that's probability biggest concern. I'll just show you. You know, we looked at sort of impact of something that's more transmissible versus simply more lethal, and if you look at something, for example, 50 percent more transmissible, that would lead to a lot more deaths after a month than something that was 50 percent more lethal because it spreads into communities, affects vulnerable populations, so the transmissibility thing is a concern.

Also, the fact that people who have antibodies because they have been previously infected, there's some evidence that those antibodies don't work as well against these strains, so we're seeing the race that everyone is talking about between the variants and the vaccine play out in real life. This is an example of that. Even people who have been previously infected, they need to get vaccinated, and this is why, because their antibodies may not be as protective and I guess those are the biggest concerns with these types of variants.

TAPPER: But the vaccines work against these variants?

GUPTA: Yeah. So the vaccines seem to offer more protection other than just the antibodies that you get from natural protection -- natural infection rather. So I think that's a real important point. A lot of people out there say yeah, I had it. I don't need the vaccine.

To date -- what's happening today in the news should remind people that even if you've had the infection in the past, antibodies you have, the proteins that you have in your blood may not be protective against some of the new variants so still get vaccinated when you can.

TAPPER: A number of European countries have had to issue lockdown orders again because of rising new case counts.

Do you think, it's obviously a race, but do you think the U.S. can vaccinate enough adults to reach a real herd immunity through vaccination before these variants of concern spread more and potentially force more shutdowns?

[16:20:05]

GUPTA: Well, you know, Jake, I've been talking to a lot of people about this. I think, first of all, it would be hard to imagine people shutting down again. I mean, and I'm not saying it shouldn't happen. I'm just saying that one thing that we've seen throughout the last year is the complete reluctance to shut things down. Maybe it happens again, but I think it's very unlikely.

What causes a shutdown in the United States versus other countries? In Italy, they are shutting down because of rising case numbers. The thing that would sort of force it here is -- is the hospitalizations. If hospitalizations are becoming over -- hospitals are becoming overwhelmed, that might be something that really forces a shutdown so to speak.

But, Jake, I'm optimistic on this note despite the fact that we typically track with Italy there, and we see Italy going up so we're likely to go up. Because 60 percent -- two-thirds of people over the age of 60 at least have one shot now and within the next couple of weeks they are going to be immunized, I think it's up likely we're going to see the corresponding proportional increase in hospitalizations or deaths.

I hope I'm not wrong on that, but I think because so many people have been vaccinated, even if the case numbers stay the same or go up, hopefully, it's not going to lead to an overwhelming of hospitals again.

TAPPER: I hope you're right.

At least 16 European countries have now suspended use of the AstraZeneca coronavirus vaccine and a safety committee in Europe is now investigating if there's any link between the vaccine and vaccinated people who got blood clots.

Now, let me remind our viewers the AstraZeneca vaccine is not being used in the United States right now so this is not necessarily an issue that's relevant, but AstraZeneca may come to the United States and Fauci tried to dismiss some of the concerns about it today. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, CHIEF MEDICAL ADVISER TO PRESIDENT BIDEN: The actual incidence of the clotting is not more than you would expect in the population in the absence of vaccines. So that's why they are insisting that the concern is not founded on the reality of what's gone on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: What's your take on this? Fauci saying what basically you said yesterday, that this isn't necessarily an issue that the Europeans should be reacting like this about. GUPTA: Yeah. I think, you know, their antennas are way up like we

said yesterday. They are looking for anything right now, which I think is understandable frankly. I mean, in some ways, it's evidence that the safety monitoring that takes place is working.

But as a result, you know, you can sort of overreact as well. You start to draw these correlations that really aren't there. I think what Dr. Fauci said and a lot of other people who are taking care of patients even in Europe will say is that there is -- there is a certain percentage of people at any given time outside of the pandemic, outside of the vaccination campaign that just developed the spontaneous clotting disorders and the number of people who do that spontaneously is no higher under the people who have received vaccines.

What we need is the European Medical Agency to come out and be definitive about this and not wishy-washy because I think the great impact of this may be increasing vaccine hesitancy as opposed to a real danger of the vaccine so, you know, they have got to be strong about that.

TAPPER: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks as always. Good to see you.

Eight people killed in three separate shootings at massage parlors in Georgia, and now we're learning about the suspect's past including why he spent time in rehab.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:28:07]

TAPPER: And we're back with the politics lead and President Biden's message to would-be migrants, quote: Don't come to the U.S., he said.

Yet, migrants are coming across the U.S. southern border at record levels according to the Department of Homeland Security, and thousands of them are children, and they are alone.

Once in the U.S., many of these children go into U.S. detention facilities where many are sleeping on plastic cots and others on mats on the floor, a Border Patrol agent tells CNN and in some cases the children have not seen sunlight or taken a shower in days.

But as CNN's Phil Mattingly reports for us now, top Biden administration officials still seem to downplay the severity of what's become a humanitarian crisis.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BIDEN: I can say quite clearly, don't come.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Biden with a loud and clear message to migrants making the dangerous trek to the U.S. BIDEN: We're in the process of getting set up, don't leave your town

or city or community.

MATTINGLY: Biden attempting to halt the perception that he's played a role in the surge of unaccompanied minors at the border as his homeland security secretary echoed that sentiment on Capitol Hill and sharply pushed back on questions on why the administration won't call it a crisis.

ALEJANDRO MAYORKAS, SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: A crisis is when a nation is willing to rip a 9-year-old child out of the hands of his or her parent and separate that family to deter future migration. That to me is a humanitarian crisis.

MATTINGY: The administration now facing more than 4,000 minors in Border Patrol custody for on average more than 120 hours, far longer than the legally allotted 72 hours, with CNN reporting that conditions include children alternating schedules to make space for one another, kids who haven't seen sunlight in days all while going days without showers.

Biden saying in an ABC interview policy solutions are being put into place and making clear it will take time.

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