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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Interview With Former Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency Director Christopher Krebs; Atlanta Murder Spree; Migrant Surge. Aired 4:30-5p ET

Aired March 17, 2021 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:30:02]

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JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have brought in -- brought in HHS and also brought in FEMA to provide for enough safe facilities for them to not -- to get out of the control of the Border Patrol, which are not designed to hold people for long periods of time, particularly children, get them out of those facilities.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The immigration crisis threatening the swamp Biden's agenda, even as his administration gears up for its next big push, an infrastructure package, with Biden making clear the most difficult element, how to pay for it, will include tax increases.

BIDEN: Anybody making more than $400,000 will see a small to a significant tax increase. If you make less than $400,000, you won't see one single penny in additional federal tax

MATTINGLY: Even though Republicans have already said tax increases are a nonstarter, Biden unmoved.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS: You didn't get a single Republican vote for tax cuts. How are you going to get a Republican vote for a tax increase?

BIDEN: Oh, I may not get it, but I will get the Democratic votes.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: And, Jake, another significant decision looming for President Biden is whether to withdraw U.S. troops from Afghanistan. His predecessor, President Trump, set a May 1 deadline for that decision.

Last night, in the ABC interview, Biden saying it could happen, but it will be tough. He criticized the deal that was struck by the Trump administration and said right now consulting with allies, in the process of figuring out next steps there -- Jake.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: All right, Phil Mattingly, thanks so much.

In our national lead: President Biden says he will not make a connection on possible motives for the gruesome shootings around Atlanta the left eight people dead, six of them women of Asian descent, until the Department of Justice weighs in.

The shootings took place at three spas in the Atlanta area about an hour apart. And moments ago, police announced that the suspect will face eight counts of murder.

And, as CNN's Natasha Chen reports for us now, after a rise of reported hate crimes against Asian Americans, that community is now even more on edge.

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NATASHA CHEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He spent time in rehab for sex addiction. That's according to the former roommate of the suspect in a horrific string of shootings at three Atlanta area spas that killed eight people and wounded one other.

We now know six of the victims are of Asian descent. The suspect, Robert Aaron Long, told investigators his attacks were not racially motivated, but rather an attempt to target places he felt were temptations for his sexual addiction.

JAY BAKER, CHEROKEE COUNTY, GEORGIA, SHERIFF: He apparently has an issue, what he considers sex addiction, and sees these locations as something that allows him to go to these places. And it's a temptation for him that he wanted to eliminate.

CHEN: The first calls came in around 5:00 p.m., a shooting at Young's Asian Massage in Acworth, Georgia, about 30 miles northwest of Atlanta.

Two of the victims died at the scene. Two passed away at the hospital. From there, police say the suspect drove to Atlanta. At 5:47 p.m., Atlanta police responded to a call of a possible robbery at Gold's Massage Spa. There, they found three Asian women who had been killed.

And across the street, at Aroma Therapy Spa, one Asian woman was killed.

BAKER: So, it's pretty shocking for not only our responding deputies and public safety, but also for the community here. And we take this very serious.

CHEN: Law enforcement said Long admitted to the shootings in a police interview. When police released these surveillance images of him, they said the family of 21-year-old Long called authorities. Investigators then tracked him via cell phone 150 miles south of Atlanta, where he was arrested.

KEISHA LANCE BOTTOMS (D), MAYOR OF ATLANTA, GEORGIA: The suspect was on his way to Florida, I believe, and perhaps to carry out additional shootings. So, again, this could have been significantly worse.

CHEN: The fact that the majority of victims were Asian women adds to the mounting tension in the Asian American community, already fearful after a rise in reporting of anti-Asian attacks across the country, something of which Vice President Kamala Harris, who is part Southeast Asian, is keenly aware.

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It is tragic. Our country, the president and I and all of us, we grieve for the loss. Our prayers are extended to the families of those who have been killed.

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CHEN: One of the suspect's former roommates has spoken to CNN, describing him as someone who was deeply religious and tortured and distraught over his sexual addiction.

Now, today, we have also heard from the sheriff of Cherokee County. That's the location where the first attack happened. He was asked about whether the suspect in his interview sounded like he understood the seriousness of his actions. Here's what the sheriff said:

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BAKER: He understood the gravity of it, and he was pretty much fed up and had been kind of at the end of his rope. And yesterday was a really bad day for him, and this is what he did.

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CHEN: So, he says right there that it was a really bad day for the suspect.

Well, here's what we know about that. Someone told police last night that Long had recently been kicked out of his parents house and was emotional.

[16:35:03]

But, clearly, Jake, this is something where investigators are going back into his history. There's a lot of discussion about what addiction he had and whether or not this was thought about far longer than just this week -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Natasha, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

President Biden sends a message to Vladimir Putin that he's not dealing with President Trump anymore.

That's next.

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TAPPER: In our world lead: a threat from President Biden to Russian leader Vladimir Putin on interfering in the 2020 election.

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BIDEN: He will pay a price. I -- we had a long talk, he and I. We have -- I know relatively well. And the conversation started off. I said: "I know you and me. If I establish this occurred, then be prepared."

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[16:40:10]

TAPPER: Those comments come on the heels of a newly declassified intelligence report which found that Russia, among other countries, interfered with our election again to help former President Trump and denigrate now President Biden.

The report revealing just how extensive Putin's efforts were, including mounting efforts to influence people in Trump's inner circle.

Joining me now to discuss, the former director of the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency, Chris Krebs, who was fired by President Trump because he would not support the big lie, which is a decision that aged pretty well, Chris.

So, Biden talked about an exchange he had with Putin in his office back in 2011. Take a listen.

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BIDEN: President Biden had said: "I have looked in his eyes and saw his soul."

I said: "I looked in your eyes. And I don't think you have a soul."

And he looked back me, he said: "We understand each other."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Biden vowed that Putin would pay a price for interfering. He told him he didn't think he had a soul ,if you believe that story.

How big of a difference in tone are we seeing from Trump to Biden when it comes to Putin?

CHRISTOPHER KREBS, FORMER DIRECTOR, CYBERSECURITY AND INFRASTRUCTURE SECURITY AGENCY: I -- at least from the words from the head of state, it's a night-and-day difference.

It's talking very clearly about exchanges. It's talking about what might be to come. It's not coming out of the blue. It's not coming from Cabinet heads. It's actually coming from the president of the United States. You get readouts of conversation. They're coming from the White House.

TAPPER: I want to turn to the intelligence report on election security. There's a lot to it.

One way that Russia tried to interfere, according to this report, was using cronies to influence Trump's allies. Though it doesn't specify who that could be. The report assessed that Putin had purview over Ukrainian lawmaker Andriy Derkach, who has ties to Russian intelligence.

The report does not name a Trump ally, but we do know that Derkach met with Rudy Giuliani, Trump's lawyer, who has influence on Trump. Does this surprise you at all? How concerned are you over how close the Kremlin was able to get to Trump when it came to this disinformation?

KREBS: So, that report you're referencing, the 1-A report, is the intelligence analysis that the director of national intelligence pulled together around the 2020 election.

There was a separate report, the 1-B report, that was more focused on the impact of any of those actions on elections. This dates back to an executive order prior to the 2018 election. And many of those activities, including the Andriy Derkach information, as well as the Konstantin Kilimnik, who was another Ukrainian operative -- or Russian influence asset, that information was previously public.

Derkach was sanctioned. But it's the first time you have seen it all rolled up in one, with the additional information about that immediate orbit of the former president. And it shows that everyone in this town, in Washington, D.C., needs to be pretty careful about who you're talking to, particularly when they show up with something that seems just a little bit too good.

TAPPER: This report refutes the big lie claims repeatedly, noting that no one tinkered with voting machines, no one messed with voter registration.

How was this able to get so out of hand?

KREBS: I mean, Jake, it was a man with 89 million followers on Twitter that was constantly repeating these.

(LAUGHTER)

KREBS: I mean, look, I had 10,000 followers on Twitter at the time I was fired and we were trying to debunk some of the themes that were central to the big lie, whether it was the election equipment, whether it was dead voters, whether it was sharpie-gate in Arizona.

When you have these individuals, these influencers, and you have these fringe media networks and other outlets on the Internet that are promoting it, it's asymmetric information warfare. We were simply outgunned.

TAPPER: The Trump administration spent years publicly undermining the intelligence community, in terms of integrity and findings.

For the supporters of the big lie, whose response, this is all just a deep state trying to cover it up, what do you say to them? Because the supporters of the big lie are still up on Capitol Hill. It's a majority of House Republicans. It's a few Senate Republicans. What do you say? KREBS: If you continue to propagate the big lie -- that report calls

it out quite clearly -- you are part and parcel of a Russian disinformation operation.

You will be contributing to further physical violence. It calls very clearly that the big lie that precipitated the January 6 attack on the Capitol was just the beginning, that some of these operators in some of the Oath Keeper groups and others will continue to use the big lie to justify violence to take what -- back whatever political independence they think they are owed.

[16:45:04]

And that's what we're going to see. It is going to continue. It is going to spread throughout the country, throughout Europe as well. This is not just a U.S. problem. This is an emerging liberal democracy problem.

TAPPER: Yeah, Chris. Thank you so much. As always, thanks for your integrity. I know the last six months have not been fun, but we appreciate it. Thanks so much.

KREBS: Thanks, Jake.

TAPPER: It's the next fight over a pipeline already happening right now, but is it already past the point of no return?

Stay with us.

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TAPPER: In our "Earth Matters" series, on his first day in office, President Biden signed an executive order to kill the controversial Keystone pipeline, but there's another massive and controversial pipeline being built right now running 340 miles through Minnesota. Supporters say it provides thousands of much-needed jobs. Activists want it killed for environmental reasons.

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But as CNN's Bill Weir reports that might be too late.

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BILL WEIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Way up north, where the mighty Mississippi is a twisty ribbon of ice, this is the new front in an old fight. It is called Enbridge Line 3, a Canadian pipeline set to run through the woods, wetlands and wild rice of Minnesota, setting up another Natives versus Goliath clash over energy, sovereignty and our life-threatening addiction to fossil fuel.

So how much of this fight for you is about the immediate concerns of a leak that would spoil the water and land, and how much of it is about stopping manmade climate change?

TARA HOUSKA, TRIBAL ATTORNEY: For me, it's all the things at once so it's the spills, right, which always happen with pipelines. It's the disruption itself of just the pipeline going into 800 wetlands, 200 bodies of water and then there's the climate change piece, the emissions of this, 50 coal power plans, absolute insanity.

WEIR: Line 3 starts in the tar sands of Alberta where forests are replaced with open pits and toxic lakes so big, you can see them from space. Since it is scrapped and steamed into a thick sludge, the tar sand oil takes tremendous amounts of water and energy to push through a pipe. And one study found Line 3 will contribute as much planet- warming pollution as 50 coal power plants.

What is Enbridge's position overall on climate crisis?

MIKE FERNANDEZ, CHIEF COMMUNICATIONS OFFICER, ENBRIDGE: We breathe. Climate change is an issue, and, in fact, almost as our name implies, right? Enbridge, we're very keen to trying to build a bridge to the energy future.

WEIR: So at what point in order to break this addiction do we say, you know what. We're going to start with the worst -- we're going to start with the black tar heroin as we detox our way towards being clean.

FERNANDEZ: Yeah. I mean, real challenge here is that we have a demand for energy, and the reality is even as we see great growth in renewables, we're still going to need fossil fuels year to come.

WEIR: After President Biden pulled Trump-era permits and killed the Keystone XL, those who lost the battle at Standing Rock found fresh hope. The tribes and their allies who failed to stop the Dakota Access oil from flowing, just watch the first Native American interior secretary getting confirmed and now they pray that the president or a judge will stop Line 3.

But that's a much bigger ask. Unlike Keystone XL which they are starting from scratch, Line 3 is a replacement, and of the 340 miles that will cut through Minnesota, 40 percent of it is already in the ground.

To outrace a court or a White House order, Enbridge is working as fast as the thawing ice and growing protest will allow.

HOUSKA: There will be over 130 people arrested so far in the last few months. We've got people crawling into the pipeline itself that have been chained to the machines. I mean, it's an all-out struggle for Mother Earth that's happening here.

BARRY SIMONSON, PROJECT DIRECTOR, ENBRIDGE LINE 3 REPLACEMENT PROJECT: We do respect everyone's view on the project. We respect safe protesting. What we don't want is individuals to become unsafe or trespass, and we ask our workers for de-escalation. Don't engage, because it goes back to safety, integrity and the last one respect.

KEVIN PRANIS, MARKETING MANAGER, LABORERS' INTERNATIONAL UNION OF NORTH AMERICA: The truth is carbon emissions aren't coming from pipelines, they are coming from car, so if you really wanted to go directly to the source protest car dealerships. You could protest gas stations.

WEIR: When you compare a job on a pipeline compared to a job building turbines or solar panels or drilling for geothermal, does it pay the same?

PRANIS: That's an excellent question. In Minnesota because of the work we've done over the past few years, our labor is working on the pipeline and our labor is working building wind turbines are making the exact same money.

WEIR: For one side of the fight, it all comes down to supply and demand. While others demand a supply of energy that doesn't come with 1,000-mile pipes, droughts, floods, fires and rights seas. It's a debate that will define the 2020s and beyond.

Bill Weir, CNN, Palisade, Minnesota.

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TAPPER: And our thanks to Bill Weir for that report.

Warning signs in Europe that another COVID wave could build if we are not careful. That's next.

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TAPPER: In our world lead, the World Health Organization says coronavirus cases around the world are rising again. Half of Italy's regions are now in another lockdown after reporting the highest daily death increase since late January.

In France, top health officials say it's time to consider new restrictions around Paris. Both of those countries and at least a dozen others in your world have paused the AstraZeneca vaccine over possible side effects which are complicating vaccination efforts.

Finally today, 537,000 Americans have died from coronavirus. We would like to take time to remember one of the frontline health care workers we've lost.

Antonio Espinoza (ph), he was a 36-year-old hospice nurse in California, a husband and father. He loved to travel and cheer on the Dodgers. Espinoza's job was to ease people's pain before their deaths. He did not think his time would come so soon.

He caught the virus in late January. He was gone a week later. He leaves behind his wife and 3-year-old son.

Our deepest condolences. May his memory be a blessing.

Our coverage on CNN continues right now. I'll see you tomorrow.