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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Defense Cross-Examines Police Chief Who Fired Derek Chauvin; U.S. Vaccinating Nearly Five Times Faster Than Global Average; Tensions Between GOP & Georgia-Based Businesses Over Voting Law. Aired 4-4:30p ET

Aired April 05, 2021 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:01]

CHIEF MEDARIA ARRADONDO, MINNEAPOLIS POLICE DEPARTMENT WHO FIRED DEREK CHAUVIN: Yes.

ERIC NELSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: And, again, watching it without sound.

Do you -- at this point, did you see what appeared to be someone's -- a reflection, action in the back of the squad car there?

ARRADONDO: Counselor, I did not.

NELSON: OK.

ARRADONDO: It might just be because of the brevity of the video, but --

NELSON: Yeah, it's unfortunate. If you look in the upper left-hand corner at the bumper of the squad video --

JUDGE PETER CAHILL, HENNEPIN COUNTY COURTHOUSE: Use the cursor to circle it for him.

NELSON: I'm sorry?

CAHILL: Use the cursor or the stylus to --

NELSON: Sure. I forgot will all this fancy technology here.

Do you see the legs of someone reflecting in.

ARRADONDO: Yes.

NELSON: And so you would agree that this appears to be a short clip from one. Officer's body-worn cameras on May 25th of 2020?

ARRADONDO: Yes.

NELSON: You've seen these before. You see what appears to be Mr. Floyd's arm there by the back of the squad car, right?

ARRADONDO: Yes.

NELSON: So I would offer exhibit 1008.

CAHILL: Any objection?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No objection, Your Honor.

CAHILL: 1008 is received.

NELSON: And if I may publish.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On the sidewalk.

UNIDENTIIFED MALE: We need you to keep some distance.

Yeah, the ambulance is coming.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NELSON: Sorry, didn't mean to (INAUDIBLE).

Do you hear a voice say we've got an ambulance coming?

ARRADONDO: Yes. Sorry, if you could take that down.

Now, policy 5-311. Let's talk a little bit about 5-311 which is the neck restrain restraint policy.

(INAUDIBLE)

CAHILL: Good time for a 20-minute mid-afternoon break. We'll reconvene around 3:20. Thank you.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: -- to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

And the courtroom just broke there, you saw. We are starting with our breaking news in our national lead today and the very closely watched trial in Minnesota just moments ago. You heard the Minneapolis police chief testify against his own former Officer Derek Chauvin who is, of course, charged with murdering George Floyd last May. Police Chief Medaria Arredondo said Chauvin did not use a reasonable amount of force when restraining Mr. Floyd and that his actions went against police training.

The chief also testified that officer Chauvin violated department policy multiple times, including by not de-escalating the situation and by failing to render medical aid to Mr. Floyd. This is the same chief who fired Chauvin last year calling what happened to George Floyd murder.

TAPPER: Let's get right to CNN's Omar Jimenez. He's in Minneapolis covering the trial for us.

And, Omar, explain what we just saw and heard from the police chief.

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPNDENT: Yeah, Jake. So this is really the start of week two of testimony here in this trial, and this was a highly anticipated witness here. The current Minneapolis Police Chief Medaria Arredondo testifying in the trial of Derek Chauvin, his former officer, and the most critical part of the testimony was when he was asked if he had a belief or an opinion on when the actions Chauvin took on May 25th, 2020 should have stopped and critically he said once there was no longer any resistance and clearly when Floyd was no longer responsive. To apply that level of force to a person prone, handcuffed behind his back is not part of policy training and not part of the ethics or values of being a Minneapolis police officer.

And we had clues as to what he was going to say based on prior messaging that he put out. He released a letter in the weeks after firing these officers, of course, within 48 hours of this happening, calling what happened murder.

[16:05:01]

And then when you come to opening statements of this trial, the prosecutors had said that the chief was going to testify. This was not part of police policy, and specifically they were asked or they asked the chief, is this a trained department tactic, and he definitively said it is not.

And this also gives the start of what we are going to see over the course of this week. Last week was primarily focusing on establishing what happened on May 25th. This week will be trying to prove that case of what Derek Chauvin has pleaded not guilty to, the murder and manslaughter charges. We're going to see that move forward with the use of force dialing in on whether that was necessary and what happened there.

We've seen it with the chief now and later on, we're going to see it from the commander who heads all of the training from the Minneapolis Police Department -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Omar Jimenez, thanks so much.

Let's discuss with our panel.

And, Shan, you say the police chief's testimony is crucial for the prosecution. Explain why.

SHAN WU, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: They need to get that testimony in to show how he was -- how Chauvin was violating the police procedures and training and that's critical to all the convictions but particularly critical if they want to convict him of that second-degree murder channel because that's real going to be a high burden. They need to convince the jury that he knew that he was committing a crime.

So the first point is you've got to get to the point of he had to have known, no reasonable police officer would have thought he was complying with police procedure. That's what they are setting this foundation for with the chief's testimony.

TAPPER: You know, it's interesting, Van, I read a commentary that suggested that policing itself is on trial here, but the chief is saying no, emphasizing how many police policies Chauvin broke according to -- to his point of view. There is, of course, a difference between violating policies and knowingly committing a crime, and that's what Shan was just talking about.

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, first of all, I hope every police officer, every police chief and every police commissioner in the country watches this police chief. This is the professionalism that people have been begging for for 20 or 30 years, at least in my career. He showed an understanding of this balance between trying to, you know, keep order but also trying to keep the trust and respect of a community.

You heard him talking about how to deal with people in distress, how to deal with people from the LGBTQ, gender non-conforming communities. He had a level of command over the full range of what you want from modern policing, and it was on full display for the world.

If every police chief acted like this and every police officer followed the rules and the policies and the training from a police chief like this, most of what you see happening in the country wouldn't be happening. And so this -- look, I thought that -- I mean, my mouth was hanging open is this guy from Hollywood? Where did we get this police chief and the idea that -- I understand now why he -- he was -- had no hesitation about firing those officers because none of what he's talking about is something the officers were doing.

TAPPER: Shan, you know, it's interesting. We've done this a lot. We've covered a lot of trials and obviously there's been a lot of focus on abuse by police but I can't recall a police chief ever testifying against a former officer. It doesn't happen that often.

WU: I agree, Jake. I think it's very rare. I think this police chief, I'm not sure the timing, but he did intensify I think in the case also in the Minneapolis where that officer shot an Australian woman in the alleyway.

But I agree with Van. I mean, he's really what we hope to see in police leadership. He's unafraid to call out what he sees as wrong and completely unjustifiable. I thought what was interesting about the notion of police culture, one of the things he did admit was that police officers do get irritated with citizens properly using their First Amendment rights to film them.

I think that's an interesting display of what happens in that police culture because that's something they should be trained on. That shouldn't be irritating to them. That's not obstruction.

TAPPER: Yeah. And, Van, yesterday I spoke with Minnesota Democratic Congresswoman Ilhan Omar who is obviously one of the many people watching this trial very intently. I want you to take a listen to what she had to say about the emotions and the community in Minneapolis-St. Paul are going through.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ILHAN OMAR (D-MN): It's been, you know, retraumatizing. It's been really hard. I've tried to avoid watching. I know a lot of us here in minneapolis have done that, but it's -- it's hard, right? You also want to know the details and want to hear from the witnesses.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Our own Nia-Malika Henderson wrote a very powerful op-ed about how she's not watching the trial because it's triggering, to use a word.

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You've talked about the emotional stress on many Americans, especially perhaps in the black community.

JONES: Well, I mean, it's -- it's terrible, and I think that for those of us, African-Americans and our allies who when you see a George Floyd and see all the community members, you're seeing your friends, you're seeing your family members and you're seeing yourself and the idea that a year later, we're still trying to figure fought this is a crime it just takes a lot out of you.

Just said, these are police officers that have body cameras. Why should they be mad that civilians also have phone cameras? Mean, this -- you're dealing with a clash over and over again, and most of the time if you're African-American you know no matter what you have done and who you are, you're going to be on the losing side. And so, to have this, you know, over and over again on television is very stressful.

I will say today they didn't have to rely so much on the videos. Today was easy to watch because you have a police chief acting like a chief of police, not -- not somebody who is going to be, you know, the excuse-maker in chief but who is going to be the chief of the police and the person who will make sure the police will obey the law as much as the citizens obey the law enforcement today I think was an easier day to watch than the others.

TAPPER: Van Jones, Shan Wu, thanks to both of you. Appreciate it.

Some medical experts say the United States about to be hit with a fourth surge while others say that's not the case. That's next.

And then only CNN allowed inside Myanmar where people are being arrested just for talking to journalists following that country's military coup. We're going to go there live.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:15:50]

TAPPER: Some positive signs in our health lead today. Americans are getting vaccinated at almost five times faster than the global average, according to a CNN analysis. Forty percent of all adults in the U.S. have had at least one dose, according to the CDC. But with hospitalizations rising and new variants spreading, one expert warns that the U.S. is at the beginning of a fourth surge potentially -- as CNN's Alexandra Field reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Air travel up more than tenfold from a year ago on Sunday. The surge fueled by the holiday weekend and an itch felt everywhere to get back out thereto.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I feel like because people are just probably just tired of being at home.

FIELD: As so many rush to push the pandemic behind them, new COVID-19 cases are rising across the country for a fourth week running, according to the CDC.

DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, CDC DIRECTOR: We know that these increases are due in part to more highly transmissible variants.

FIELD: But health experts are still divided over whether we'll see a true fourth wave.

MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, DIRECTOR, CNETER FOR INFECTIOUS DIEASE REASEARCH & POLICY, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA: We really are in a category 5 hurricane status with regard to the rest world. At this point, we'll see in the next two weeks the highest number of cases reported globally since the beginning of the pandemic.

FIELD: The spread infection in the U.S. now happening among young people.

DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB, FORMER FDA COMMISSIONER: What we're seeing is pockets of infection around the country particularly in younger people who haven't been vaccinated.

FIELD: Former FDA commissioner, Dr. Scott Gottlieb, confident the increasing rate of vaccinations will head off another surge.

GOTTLIEB: I don't think it's going to be a true fourth wave.

FIELD: But that doesn't mean it's time to let up on the precautions.

ANDY SLAVITT, SENIOR ADVISOR TO WHITE HOUSE COVID-19 RESPONSE TEAM: Do your part. Wear a mask. Socially distant, get vaccinated when it's your turn.

FIELD: More Americans are for the first time over the weekend, more than 4 million shots were reported a ministered in a single day. Nearly one in four adults are now fully vaccinated.

For them, Dr. Anthony Fauci says updated guidance on what you should and shouldn't do will come when the data it is in.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, CHIEF MEDICAL ADVISER TO THE PRESIDENT: You're protecting yourself and you're very, very unlikely will get sick if you get vaccinated, but also, it will give you a freedom of getting back to some degree of normality.

FIELD: Long-awaited but amid so much suffering still. A new model estimates COVID-19 has taken a parent from nearly 40,000 U.S. children.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FIELD (on camera): Jake, that number represents so much heartbreak. It also represents some of the disparity we've reported on so often over the course of this pandemic, black children make up just 14 percent of the children's population in the United States. They make up 20 percent of the children who have lost a parent to COVID-19 -- Jake.

TAPPER: Alexandra, thanks so much.

Dr. Paul Offit, a member of the FDA Vaccines Advisory Committee joins me now.

Dr. Offit, good to see you.

So, Michael Osterholm says that the U.S. is just at the beginning of this fourth surge but not everyone agrees. The former FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb says the rate of vaccination should be enough to protect against a fourth surge.

What do you think?

DR. PAUL OFFIT, MEMBER, FDA VACCINES ADVISORY COMMITTEE: I actually agree with Dr. Gottlieb.

I think there are a few things working against this virus. One is increased vaccination rates and two is a significant percentage of the population, about 25 percent has already been infected with the virus so they are likely to be immune and three is the weather. I mean, if you look last summer, the number of deaths from this virus decreased for when it first came in, stayed down until we came into fall and winter.

So I think those three things work against there being a fourth surge. That said, it really doesn't matter. We still have tens of thousands of cases every day. We still have hundreds and more than 1,000 deaths every day.

That's enough to scare people so we either get vaccinated or if we haven't had a chance to get a vaccine yet, at least wear a mask and social distance.

TAPPER: What would a fourth surge in the U.S. look like were it to happen given the fact that 18 percent of the population is already fully vaccinated? Given -- I mean, most of them that are vaccinated are 65 and older. So, would it mean less death, less hospitalization? What would a fourth surge mean?

OFFIT: I think it would look like more cases, perhaps more hospitalizations, but I don't think you'll see an increase deaths. That's basically Michigan's story, right you? See a dramatic increase in cases in Michigan but not deaths in Michigan and I think that's because as you know, about 55 percent of seniors, people over 65 are already vaccinated.

TAPPER: Do you think the rate of vaccination is giving people a false sense of hope given the fact that there are these variants spreading?

OFFIT: Right, and we're not there yet. I mean, we're going to need to about 80 or 85 percent population immunity either by population or immunity. You're right, the variants -- I think these vaccines right now -- these vaccines will protect against severe critical disease caused by the variants but, you know, may not protect against mild or moderate disease as has been shown in some studies.

TAPPER: What can you tell us about the new variant strain first identified in India? It's been reported in California. What do we know about it?

OFFIT: Right. It does look like it has the kind of mutations that put it into the variant of concern category, like the South African strain and the Brazilian strain and the New York strain. I mean, to date, we don't know that the variants have completely escaped for immunity, where if you've been naturally infected or immunized you may be still be hospitalized or be in a ICU or die. That hasn't happened yet so we haven't cross that had line yet.

TAPPER: All right. Dr. Paul Offit, always good to see you. Thank you so much, and I know you're happy about the Phillies.

It's a law pitting the GOP against baseball and Coca-Cola, another multi-million dollar businesses. I'm going to talk with the man in charge of Georgia's elections about the state's new legislation. That's next.

Plus, donors say they were duped into giving the Trump administration far more money than they thought they had signed up for. Why the campaign is now refunding tens of millions of dollars. That's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: We're back with the politics lead.

And the face-off between the Georgia GOP and Georgia-based businesses over the new, generally more restrictive voting law in the state. Major League Baseball moved its all-star game out of Atlanta to protest the law. And the CEOs of Atlanta-based Delta and Coca-Cola, both blasted the new legislation.

The law gives voters less time to request absentee ballots, imposes a new voter ID requirement and bans officials from sending absentee ballot applications to all voters.

For in-person voting, the law makes it illegal for non-election workers to hand out food or water to voters with 150 feet of a polling place. It also bans mobile investigate sites unless the governor declares an emergency. Now, there are some other ways in which the law allows expanded early

voting.

But let's talk about it all with secretary of state, Republican Brad Raffensperger.

Secretary Raffensperger, good to see you.

Republicans say that this law is necessary to boost election integrity, but as we saw, November's presidential election in Georgia, you had record turnout. You and the governor and the lieutenant governor said repeatedly there was no evidence of widespread voter fraud that would have changed the election in any way. Why did the election laws need to be changed?

It seemed like your elections and the runoffs in January were a huge success.

BRAD RAFFENSPERGER (R-GA), SECRETARY OF STATE: Going back in history, in 2018, Stacey Abrams never conceded defeat. And we had the same thing happen in 2020, this time on the Republican side. And in both cases, they -- the elections were run fairly, honestly and accurately, but there's a shot to the confidence of voters and the accuracy.

And so, on one side, the left was, you know, saying it wasn't a fair fight and then in 2020, then the Republicans were saying the same thing. So now we really needed to address confidence-building measures. I looked at the bill. There's many good things in the bill.

And I've also heard your beginning, and you make viewpoints from the other side.

But at end of the day, it's never been easier to vote in the state of Georgia and we still have accessibility. We also have balanced that out with security.

TAPPER: I know that you have issues with Stacey Abrams and what she said after she lost the gubernatorial race in 2018. But let's be -- let's be clear here. This law is happening because of the big lie spread by former President Trump, his enablers in Congress, MAGA media -- all of this stuff that this election was stolen from him. It resulted in that horrific attack on the Capitol on January 6th.

The election was not stolen from him. You've affirmed this many times as well, received threats because of your integrity on this issue.

Why are you willing to go along in any way with that law? Does that not lend credence to the fact that -- to this big lie?

RAFFENSPERGER: Well, there are some very good measures in the bill. One of those is we've been sued both by the Democrats and Republicans on signature match. And so, we've taken that off the table, and now, you use a very

objective measure of driver's license number and birthday, day, month and year. It's virtually the same process as they're using currently in Minnesota. So, it's real something that's used in red states and blue states, it's good policy. And I support that measure.

TAPPER: I want to ask you. After the CEO of Delta criticized the law, the Georgia House of Representatives voted to strip Delta of a tax break worth about $35 million, according to "The Atlanta Journal Constitution". Now, the Senate didn't vote on it, so basically the measure died.

But you're a Republican official.

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