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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Interview With Former Rep. John Boehner (R-OH); Biden To Withdraw All U.S. Troops From Afghanistan By Sept. 11; Jon Stewart Pushes Bill To Help Veterans Made Sick By "Burn Pits"; U.S. Businesses Ask Biden To Take Major Steps To Save Planet. Aired 4:30-5p ET

Aired April 13, 2021 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: He said -- quote -- about you -- "I wish he had been saying this stuff earlier. But, given January 6, the whole stolen election lie, the fact that many in the party appear to be kind of still embracing it, I think Boehner is an important voice to have out there."

[16:30:09]

So, what's your response to Congressman Kinzinger? Why didn't you say any of this earlier?

FMR. REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH): Well, listen, I retired.

And the last thing that the Congress needs, in an era when it's hard to govern, is some has-been, some Monday-morning quarterback being critical of what they are doing or not doing. And I just didn't want to be that person.

But it took me a while to put this book together. And there's no special timing on the book. It just came out when it came out. And so I was talking about my experiences over the 25 years I spent in Congress. I thought that that was the focus of my book.

But then, once we got past January 6, I had to put a couple of additional sentences in there, because it saddened me a great deal.

TAPPER: One of those sentences, you say that Donald Trump pushed a -- quote -- "bullshit lie" that the election was stolen. And then you note he incited the insurrection on January 6, for nothing more than -- quote -- "selfish reasons."

What was your reaction when you saw House members you once worked with, people you probably considered friends, such as current House Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy, pushing the big lie on the airwaves, in that crazy Texas lawsuit, then on the floor of the House? What did you think when you saw them doing it?

BOEHNER: Well, I'm still waiting for evidence to show up.

The president was out there every day talking about the election being stolen and filing lawsuits. I'm waiting for the evidence. And, sadly, no evidence ever showed up. And I think the president abused the loyalty and trust that his voters had placed in him by not being honest with the American people about the outcome.

TAPPER: He clearly did, but he wasn't alone.

And Kevin McCarthy, he voted to object to the election even after the attack on the Capitol, with blood on the floor, along with 146 other Republicans. And then McCarthy went down to Mar-a-Lago, met with President Trump days later.

What message do you think that sends to the House Republicans?

BOEHNER: Well, I don't know. I'm not there anymore. I don't serve in the caucus.

It's hard for me to be critical. I spent 40 years around politics. I thought I knew something about it, but clearly, these days, I don't know much.

TAPPER: But if you're willing to criticize Trump for pushing a lie, why would you not be willing to criticize Kevin McCarthy for doing the same thing?

He went on FOX News two days after the election and said -- quote -- "President Trump won this election. So, everyone who's listening, do not be quiet."

He was playing to the crowd, which is something that you criticize politicians for very well in your book, playing to the crowd on conservative media.

Isn't your successor, Kevin McCarthy, doing that too?

BOEHNER: Well, listen, he's responsible for what he's got to say.

I don't need to comment.

TAPPER: When you were speaker, you eliminated earmarks, these sweetheart deals for members of Congress for their district that don't go through the normal appropriations process.

Democrats and Republicans are now bringing earmarks back. It's -- obviously, Democrats run the House. So, they're in charge, but McCarthy is fully on board too, saying members want to have a say in their own district about where federal funding goes.

Are the leaders of Congress making a mistake by bringing back earmarks?

BOEHNER: Well, if there's enough transparency and enough accountability over how this is handled, maybe they can -- maybe it will work.

But, in my experience, when you start handing out money to members and members' districts, it's -- you're on a path to a disaster. And, frankly, it's only a matter of time before one of these earmarks blows up in the Congress' face. The wrong people are going to get it. It's going to end up in the

wrong hands. It's going to be some project that the member may think is worthwhile, but the rest of the Congress isn't going to think was worthwhile.

TAPPER: I mean, ultimately...

BOEHNER: We don't need another bridge to -- we don't need another bridge to nowhere.

TAPPER: Right.

You have a lot in here about getting rid of earmarks. You were very proud of it. You seem to really think they're -- it's a corrupting influence.

BOEHNER: I thought, certainly, what I saw in the 20 years before I became speaker, I thought they were used in a corrupt manner on both sides of the aisle, and it was used to buy votes.

The leaders got more of the money than they should have. The committee chairs got more money than the members. And I just -- when I became speaker, I made it clear that there were going to be no earmarks. And they have tried now for the last 11 years to bring earmarks back, and failed all the way along.

It's going to be interesting to see how this works.

TAPPER: Speaker Boehner, if you would, stick around. We got a lot more to discuss, including your vote for Trump and what that means for 2024.

Stay with us. We will be right back to discuss the speaker's new book, "On the House: A Washington Memoir."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:39:28]

TAPPER: We're back with former House Speaker John Boehner, whose new book out today, "On the House: A Washington Memoir," is a rollicking good read.

Speaker Boehner, in your book, you write that you regret voting to impeach President Clinton. You wish you had fought against it. You thought that it was just a plan by Tom DeLay to win seats -- for Republicans to win seats.

Looking back on it, how do you explain Republicans who said at the time they were really offended by Clinton's extracurricular behavior, but didn't seem to have any problem with Donald Trump's?

[16:40:05]

BOEHNER: Well, let's go back to the -- 1998, the impeachment. I mean, Bill Clinton did, in fact, perjure himself. He violated the law. It's an impeachable offense.

But I think what we found out on Election Day in 1998 is that lying about sex isn't an impeachable offense. And, as the years went by, I looked at that vote and just thought it was something we probably should not have done.

But the fact is, it happened. But I wanted to come clean in the book and make my feelings about it perfectly clear.

TAPPER: So, you're critical of the impeachment of 2020, Democrats impeaching Donald Trump.

But, because of the timing of the book, you didn't weigh in on the recent impeachment that was a bipartisan impeachment in the House of Donald Trump, Liz Cheney, and other Republicans, Adam Kinzinger, Peter Meijer, et cetera, voting to impeach Donald Trump.

How do you think you would have voted if you were in the House for the January 2021 impeachment having to do with the insurrection?

BOEHNER: Well, I learned a long time ago to avoid hypothetical questions. And this is a hypothetical question. I'm not in office, and I don't know what all the facts were.

I don't watch a lot of TV. And so I will leave to the members their own decisions.

As I said earlier, the country is very divided. And, as a result, the members of Congress are divided. And the last thing I want to do is to make everybody's job there more difficult than it already is.

I just wanted to tell my story. I thought I had a pretty interesting life, pretty interesting career, and pretty nice story to tell. So, I decided to tell it.

TAPPER: You do tell a lot of good stories.

You're critical of people on TV and radio, many of the loudest voices in right-wing media, for causing these divisions, or further exacerbating them, Hannity and Levin and others, for pushing lies.

Your successor, Paul Ryan, sits on the board of FOX News' parent company. What would you tell him about what you would like to see in conservative media?

BOEHNER: Listen, they have got their shows. They are entitled to say whatever they wanted to say.

The point I was making in the book is that they were making it more difficult for me to do my job. As I said earlier, about 210 Republican members of the House were great members to work with. But there were about 20 or 30 others who made life miserable, not just for me, but for the other 210 Republicans as well.

And they would play right in -- these loud voices out there in the media would play right into what the knuckleheads wanted, all or nothing.

Well, you know, the world just doesn't work that way. Now, I went there not to make noise. I went there to do something on behalf of my country and our country. And these guys on talk radio and some of these cable networks were making my job virtually impossible.

TAPPER: So, you told "TIME" magazine that you voted for Trump last November because your views align closer to his, his picks for judges align more closely with who you would pick, and that's very important.

Did his mishandling of the pandemic give you any moment of pause before casting your ballot for him?

BOEHNER: Well, listen, the pandemic, I don't care who was president, they were going to have their hands full trying to deal with it. Yes, he could have done it better.

But the point that I made at the time was, when you look at the policies, his tax policies, the judges, how he dealt with the trade issues, by and large, lined up with the kind of policies I believe in.

And so it became pretty clear to me that Trump was going to get my vote...

TAPPER: Would you vote again...

BOEHNER: ... as much as I love Joe Biden.

And I love Joe Biden. He's a great guy.

TAPPER: Would you vote for Trump again if he were the nominee in 2024?

BOEHNER: Well, there's another hypothetical question.

Hopefully, I don't have that option.

TAPPER: All right, former House Speaker John Boehner.

The book is "On the House: A Washington Memoir." It is a good read.

Thank you so much for joining us today, sir. Good to see you.

BOEHNER: Jake, good to be with you.

TAPPER: Coming up next: Top comedian Jon Stewart got Republican and Democratic lawmakers to actually work together on legislation, with the help of some veterans' widows.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:48:55]

TAPPER: In our world lead, CNN is reporting that President Biden will announce that by September 11th, all remaining troops in Afghanistan will be withdrawn. There are about 2,500 U.S. troops remaining in the region, give or take.

Former President Trump initially set a May 1st deadline, which Biden recently signaled the U.S. would be unlikely to meet.

But the new withdrawal date September 11th marks the 20th anniversary of the 9/11 attack and the impetus for America's longest war. More than 2,300 American service members have been killed in the war. More than 20,000 wounded.

In our national lead today, an issue so serious, it has united some Republicans, Democrats and comedian Jon Stewart today to help military veterans exposed to burn pits long used in war to destroy everything from old munitions and human waste to jet fuel.

More than 3 million veterans who served in the past few decades for the U.S. military were likely exposed to toxic fumes, according to the Department of Veterans Affairs. A new bill would allow sick vets to receive V.A. benefits without the burden of proving that a burn pit caused their illnesses.

[16:50:03]

I want to bring in Jon Stewart and Gina Cancelino who lost her husband to cancer after serving in Iraq near one of these burn pits. Gina also has with her, her lovely daughter, Isabel.

Gina, first of all, my deepest condolences.

Joseph, your husband served as a marine for 20 years and his barracks were near a burn pit in Nasiriyah, Iraq putting him near these toxins as he slept.

What is the V.A.'s reasoning for denying you spousal benefits?

GINA CANCELINO, WIDOW OF U.S. MARINE VETERAN WHO DIED OF CANCER: They said that he wasn't receiving disability compensation and showing that it was service connected so I would have to prove that it was service connected in order for us to receive benefits. The rare cancer and the mere fact that he was there in 2003 until August -- March of 2003 to August of 2003 just isn't enough apparently.

TAPPER: Jon, the good news here is that Democrat and Republicans generally can't agree on much these days, but today, you had Democratic Senator Kirsten Gillibrand and Republican Senator Marco Rubio along with you promoting this bill.

President Biden says he believes a burn pit might have caused his son Beau's fatal brain cancer. Are we in a moment? Is there enough unity in Congress to get this bill passed into law?

JON STEWART, COMEDIAN & ADVOCATE FOR MILITARY VETERANS: I truly hope so because this is sort of a moral imperative. This is the cost of war when you send people overseas. You have to be prepared for taking care of the consequences of that service on those veterans. You know, these families are almost made to be defendants in court cases on their own health conditions. It's bizarre, especially since the V.A. itself, the statute is even if

there's reasonable doubt that it's not service connected, reasonable doubt, the benefits still goes to the veteran and that's why presumption is I think the only way to do it.

TAPPER: And, Gina, this process -- your husband fighting cancer while fighting the V.A., I can't even imagine how horrible this has been for you and your family.

CANCELINO: It's actually a fight that I'm -- I've taken on after his passing because we did not know until only a few months before he passed that this was an issue, and I've actually come to find the pictures thankfully through some of the men who worked with him and they sent it to me because they don't know that's an issue.

And that's where one of the things that I have a problem with is the lack of knowledge, the lack of tracking and the lack of informing these people so they can be proactive instead of reactive. There's no difference between what he slept near for six months and what we were near on 9/11.

STEWART: Ground Zero.

CANCELINO: Ground Zero, it's the same toxins.

TAPPER: And, Jon, you accomplished this before. Your celebrity name helped these 9/11 victims who suffered very similar if not exact same respiratory illness at Ground Zero and you were in the fight of your life for that. Is that experience helping you at all in this fight for military veterans and burn pits?

STEWART: I think helping to recognize sort of the failings of the system and maybe a blueprint for pushing through some of the bureaucratic inertia that fights against this, you know, it's unconscionable that Gina and her family after being put through such a devastating trial with her husband passing is forced to fight against the very government that her husband signed to protect and defend. It doesn't make any sense.

And the only drawback is they always talk about, well, can we pay for is it? Whenever we're up there they say should we include that disease? They know what diseases are caused by exposure to the toxins. That's why it's illegal to do this in the United States.

So it comes down to money, and I think the point of this is this is the cost of war. Everybody says freedom isn't free. Right. It costs this amount of money, and you've got to pay for the consequences of the service that they face in dangerous theaters.

TAPPER: Jon Stewart, Gina Cancelino, Isabel Cancelino, thanks to all three of you. Really appreciate it.

CANCELINO: Thank you. Thank you for having us and for -- for supporting this important piece of legislation.

STEWART: Yeah. Thanks, Jake. Much appreciate it. TAPPER: Hundreds of U.S. companies teaming up to ask President Biden

to address a growing threat that impacts every American. What are they asking for? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:59:26]

TAPPER: In our "Earth Matters" series today, the CEOs of Coca-Cola, Apple, Facebook and Walmart are asking President Biden to do even more to try to cut greenhouse gases, pushing to double the goal laid out in a recently reentered Paris Climate Agreement, keeping emissions lower would slow the warming of the planet. The 310 companies and investors that signed the open letter say it's a, quote, ambitious and attainable target. The companies believe the new goal will also spur economic recovery and create millions of jobs.

Next week, the White House will hold a climate summit with dozens of world leaders.

Speaking of which you can follow me on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter @JakeTapper, or you can tweet the show @TheLeadCNN.

Our coverage on CNN continues right now. I will see you tomorrow.