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The Lead with Jake Tapper

No Decision Yet On J&J Vaccine More CDC Advisory Committee; Biden Addresses New Sanctions Imposed on Russia. Aired 4:30-5p ET

Aired April 15, 2021 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:30:00]

REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): What measure, what standard, what objective outcome do we have to reach before -- before Americans get their liberty and freedoms back?

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, CHIEF MEDICAL ADVISER TO PRESIDENT BIDEN: You know, you're indicating liberty and freedom. I look at it as a public health measure to prevent people from dying and going to the hospital.

JORDAN: You don't think Americans' liberties have been threatened in the last year, Dr. Fauci? They've been assaulted, their liberties have.

FAUCI: I don't look at this as a liberty thing, Congressman Jordan.

JORDAN: Well, that's obvious.

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Today, the CDC unveiling new evidence showing the number of fully vaccinated people who still contracted the virus, also known as breakthrough illnesses. With more than 78 million Americans vaccinated, the CDC is now reporting 5,800 cases of breakthrough infections. Among those, 396 hospitalizations and 74 deaths.

Experts call this very rare and stress the need to keep vaccinating.

FAUCI: If we can get more and more people vaccinated, we almost certainly are going to be able to blunt an increase that's a sharp surge in the virus.

FIELD: New COVID cases are climbing in more than half of states, the nation averaging more than 70,000 new cases daily, and a crisis in Michigan growing more worrisome. The state's largest healthcare provider reporting the hospitals are 90 percent to 95 percent full.

SUSAN GRANT, CHIEF NURSING OFFICER FOR BEAUMONT HEALTH: This time last year, none of us would have imagined going through that extraordinarily difficult time that we would be here again, same time this year.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FIELD (on camera): And, Jake, a little more on that news from Pfizer's CEO Albert Bourla about the likely need for a booster within 12 to 6 months of the original course of vaccines. The CEO stressing data does show protection remains extremely high after six months, but it can go down overtime. He says that presents the likely scenario that you could need annual revaccination after that. But however, they are still waiting for the data to bear that out, Jake.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Much like the flu shot. You get a new flu shot every year.

FIELD: Exactly.

TAPPER: Alexandra Field, thanks so much.

CNN's chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, joins us now.

So, Sanjay, Pfizer CEO saying people are likely going to need a booster shot within 6 to 12 months of their initial vaccination, and perhaps, perhaps after that, a shot every year. What do you think?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think we don't know, and I think it's not -- Dr. Bourla obviously knows a lot about this, but I think some of this is unknowable at this point because we've got to see how long immunity lasts. So, that's the thing.

I mean, what is striking is I think ultimately what we're going to look for is, are people getting reinfected? Is there real-world evidence the immunity is wearing off? SARS, you remember, back in 2003, what they found, Jake, was that people who had a SARS infection, they had evidence of T-cell immunity 17 years later.

We focus a lot on antibodies because they're easily measurable, but there are other things giving us protection, and we've got to see what they are. So, maybe we both need a shot, I just don't think we know at this point, another shot.

TAPPER: And what do you make of the CDC delaying its decision on whether or not to continue to authorize use of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine? This leaves a lot of states, distribution efforts, people in line in limbo.

GUPTA: Yeah, I think -- I think sometimes a non-decision is a decision, and I think that they need to do this. It's tough. I'm not saying it's easy, but they need to make the decision, make the recommendation in this case to the CDC as to how to proceed.

I think what they're saying is we want to see if there's more cases, more people who come forward who have this problem. As one attendee said, is this needle in a haystack or is this tip of an iceberg?

I think it's really, really, rare. You could send a message, be on the lookout. But don't -- this is rare, be on the lookout, but let's not slow down vaccines, you know, for an unnecessarily slow time.

TAPPER: If the CDC were to pull the J&J vaccine altogether, and they have not done that, but if they were to do that, how much would that set back American efforts in vaccinations and the timeline for getting life back to normal?

GUPTA: Well, that's the thing, we can put up the numbers here. I mean, there's plenty of vaccine that's going to come through Moderna and Pfizer. I think 220 million doses by the end of May for Pfizer, 300 million doses by mid-July. You can see the numbers.

So, we'll get the doses. The thing about J&J as you well know, Jake, others know, it's a single shot. What does that mean? Why is that relevant? Well, you do have transient populations in the country that are less likely or less dependable to come back for the second shot.

So, overall, the numbers are widely available, but there's certain populations that could benefit from this, which is why there's an urge to say, make a decision so we can decide whether to put the vaccine back out there.

TAPPER: And we're learning more about what are called breakthrough cases, although the breakthrough is not good.

[16:35:01]

People who get infected with COVID even after being fully vaccinated. What do we know about this? Are they getting infected but not getting sick? What does it mean?

GUPTA: Right. Yeah, well, we can show you the numbers. So, out of fully vaccinated people, I think there were some 5,800 what they call breakthrough infections, 396 hospitalizations, 74 deaths. Give you a little bit of context. Any given day, the death rate is about ten times that, you know, 730, 740 people.

What we know about the vaccine is what they were measuring was how good a job it does at preventing people at getting very ill and dying. It appears very effective there. We don't know out of how many vaccinated, probably tens of millions of people.

So, it's not perfect, but it does sort of what the outcome measures have shown, which is reduce the illness, reduce the likelihood of hospitalization, not eliminate and greatly bring down deaths.

TAPPER: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks so much.

Any minute now, we're expecting to hear from President Biden at the White House after he announced new sanctions directly targeting Russia today. We'll be right back.

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[16:40:35]

TAPPER: We're expecting President Biden at any moment to speak at the White House about Russian sanctions. We're going to bring that to you live, but until he comes to the microphone, let's turn to our politics lead.

Today, we heard scathing testimony before a House committee about the intelligence and operational failures that led to the deadly January 6th insurrection. Today, the Capitol Hill Police inspector general told members that officers were ordered not to use their most powerful weapons for crowd control even though they were explicit warnings that Congress itself was a target.

CNN's Jessica Schneider joins us live now.

Jessica, five people were killed on January 6th. How did this happen?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: You know, Jake, the inspector general says that this was an intelligence and operational failure on multiple levels and that major changes are now needed within the Capitol Hill police.

So, the I.G. testified before House committee this afternoon really saying the Capitol Police force was essentially set up to fail from the start. The rank-and-file officers, they were never briefed on the intelligence that the Capitol was the target or even that a map of the Capitol's complex underground tunnel system had been posted on pro- Trump message boards. And then there were the equipment failures. Officers were specifically instructed not to use certain less lethal weapons. That includes stun grenades. Those would have been used to disperse the mob.

And in fact, once metropolitan force arrived at the Capitol, they used those same weapons and that they reported people turned around and leaving. That it was too late at that point, the breach had already happened. The IG also documented how Capitol Police were equipped with expired ammunition, ineffective riot shields, and the IG said there needs to be better training, more focused in gathering -- of analyzing of intelligence and that the Capitol Police should refocus its mission now. It should turn into a more protective force than a reactionary force.

The IG today really admitting that this will all require a cultural change, but that these big overhauls of the Capitol Police force, Jake, they're really necessary to ensure that the Capitol is fully frequented moving forward if there are other incidents just like this.

TAPPER: And, Jessica, there was a focus on the Capitol Police needing to be more of a protection force, as you say, than a reactionary police force.

Explain what that means.

SCHNEIDER: Yeah, you know, the inspector general put it this way -- he said that a police force, they respond if a crime has been committed. Then they move in and do their investigation. The Capitol Police, he said, really needs to be a proactive force. They need to protect the Capitol. They need to have those systems in place to make sure they are ready if something happens.

You know, he talked about the need for greater intelligence, intelligence sharing. But he also talked about the importance of creating a specific civil disturbance unit, that's sort of the elite unit within the Capitol Police. He said, right now, it's just officers that go to that unit when needed but it needs to be a specific, designated civil service unit. They're trained. They have a leadership plan in place that needs to be ready in case this happens again, Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Jessica Schneider, thanks so much.

Any minute now, we're expecting to hear from President Biden at the White House after his administration announced new sanctions directly targeting Russia today.

Stay with us. We're expecting that at any second.

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[16:48:03]

TAPPER: Any moment, we're expecting President Biden to speak at the White House to talk about the fact that today, his administration announced dozens of sanctions against Russian individuals and entities for election interference, for the SolarWinds cyberattack and also for Russia's continued occupation of Crimea.

President Biden said earlier today he would address those sanctions and his call with Russian President Vladimir Putin. The administration officials say that Biden still hopes to have a stable and predictable relationship with Russia.

Let's discuss all of this with our panel of national security experts. CNN's Alex Marquardt, Jim Sciutto, and the former chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, Mike Rogers.

Chairman Rogers, let me start with you. First, your reaction to these sanctions?

MIKE ROGERS, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY COMMENTATOR: Well, I think it's a good start. Listen, sanctions, we've maybe over-relied a little bit. When it comes to Russia, we've seen they have mixed results. But I think it's an important statement for the administration to come out and say, hey, here's the five things you're doing bad. Here's what we're doing up front and more likely to come.

I think that's really clear messaging, and if we need anything, it's clear messaging. What you're seeing is Russia test the administration a little bit. I think this is a good first out of the gate at least stab at it. More to do, but I thought this was a good step.

TAPPER: Alex, let's talk about the "stable and predictable" relationship, that's in quote, stable and predictable relationship with Russia that Biden says he wants to build.

How do you create that given the imprisonment of Navalny, the continued occupation of Crimea, the fact that two marines are unjustly in Russian jails, not to mention the SolarWinds hack? How could there be a stable and predictable relationship with a country that is not stable predictable or stable?

ALEXANDER MARQUARD, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think that's exactly what Biden is going to come out now and saying what Chairman Rogers was talking about, it's about establishing that clear messaging, it's about establishing those parameters, those lines if you will. If you cross them, we're going to punish you.

So, it's clear from the get-go that President Biden wants to have more of an established relationship, more of a normal relationship with President Vladimir Putin of Russia.

[16:50:05]

It was off to a rocky start. I remember President Biden called him a killer out of the gate. He told a story about saying to Putin that he didn't have a soul when they met back in 2011 and now you have this whole raft of sanctions, not just about SolarWinds, which we're expecting, but 2020 election interference, 2016 election interference, Crimea, even.

So Biden is now having to walk this careful line of saying, we are going to hit you really hard for all these things that you've done, but I'm the new president and I want to have, as he said, a stable and predictable relationship.

TAPPER: Jim, also today, some kind of big news -- this revelation about this Russian agent, Konstantin Kilimnik, we've spoke about him during the Russia investigation. He was an associate of the Paul Manafort. We know Manafort gave the sensitive campaign information that Manafort had given to him, that he gave it to Russian intelligence.

We didn't know that before. How significant is it?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDEN: Even the Mueller report didn't go to this degree making that explicit relationship. It raises two very questions which we've had for five years -- why did Trump's campaign manager share polling data with Russia? What could the justification be for that?

But also, substantively, did it help Russia interfere in the election in 2016? Did it help target their disinformation better for certain voters in certain swing states? You know, we don't know the answer to those questions, but it certainly makes the help it provided a known Russian operative clearer, and that gets to this fundamental question about 2016, you know, if there was no collusion, was there cooperation in some way?

You know, there's evidence here of at least helping him out. How much did it help him? It's a fair question.

TAPPER: Chairman Rogers, what do think Biden -- President Biden needs to say in a couple moments when he starts speaking?

ROGERS: First of all, he needs to reiterate where he's at with Russia and that he won't tolerate it. He's done that.

Remember, sanctions, a little underplayed. He's going to have to have tough statements in there as well by talking about moving troops into the Poland to counter the 80,000-troop buildup on the border. Those are hard things to say, but it's really important that he frames in the entire package.

Right now, these knits and gnats that we're doing against Russia, we've already seen that they aren't all that effective. It's great on messaging.

I would go down the list. When we throw out spies here in the United States, particularly operating along the Washington, D.C., Russian spies that are targeting us, they will reciprocate. So, we're going to have to plan through our techniques and access to make sure we can continue to do that. I'm sure that they've done that in that calculation.

But that in and of itself is not particularly impactful. What's going to hurt, I think, Putin is, saying, listen, we're going to step up on Ukraine. I'm not saying military involvement, more defensive weapons. More NATO and U.S. troops in the region to make sure that they don't go any other direction.

He ought to reengage in the intermediate forces treaty where they have stepped away. Many believe, me included, they were cheating on that treaty, and just start laying out there that, listen, we know what you're doing, and we're going to try to put you back in the box. We'd like to have a great relationship, but we can't do it if you continue in the aggressive posture that you're in.

TAPPER: All right. Thanks to all of you. We're going to bring those remarks to you from the White House when President Biden comes forward from the microphones. It's coming up.

Also, the deal that New Mexico's Democratic governor just made to try to move on from allegations against her of sexual mistreatment. That's next.

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[16:57:05]

TAPPER: President Biden is speaking right now. Let's listen in.

JOSEPH R. BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Earlier this week, I spoke with President Putin of Russia about the nature of our relationship, relationship between our two countries.

And I was candid, respectful. The conversation was candid and respectful. Two great powers with significant responsibility for global stability.

And President Putin and I have had a significant responsibility to steward that relationship. I take that responsibility very seriously, as I'm sure he does.

Russia and Americans are both proud and patriotic people, and I believe the Russian people, like the American people, are invested in a peaceful and secure future of our world.

During the campaign for my -- for the presidency, I was unequivocal that if I was elected president, I would respond to any attempt to influence our elections -- the last election, and because elections are sacred. They're sovereign undertakings and an expression of the will of the American people, and we cannot allow a foreign power to interfere in our democratic process with impunity.

And I told him if it turned out that the invest -- as I thought that there was engagement in our elections, that I would -- that I'd respond.

Later during the transition, as we learned more about the SolarWinds cyber intrusion, I made clear that I'd respond once we determined who had, in fact, conducted a hack on the scope and scale that occurred.

When President Putin called me in January after I was sworn in to congratulate me, I told him that my administration would be looking very carefully now that we had access to all the data at the issues that -- to assess Russia's role and then determine what response we would make.

When we spoke again this week, I told him that we would shortly be responding in a measured and proportionate way because we concluded that they had interfered in the election, and SolarWinds was totally out of the -- inappropriate.

Today, I approved several steps, including expulsions of several Russian officials as a consequence of their actions. I've also signed an executive order authorizing new measures including sanctions to address specific harmful actions that Russia has taken against U.S. interests.

I was clear with President Putin that we could have gone further but I chose not to do so, to be -- I chose to be proportionate. The United States is not looking to kick off a cycle of escalation and conflict with Russia. We want a stable and predictable relationship.

If Russia continues to interfere with our democracy, I'm prepared to take further actions to respond. It is my responsibility as president of the United States to do so.

But throughout our long history of competition, our two countries have been able to find ways to manage tensions and to keep them from escalating out of control. There are also areas where Russia and the United States can and should work together.