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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Verdict Reached in Derek Chauvin Trial, Awaiting Announcement. Aired 4:30-5p ET

Aired April 20, 2021 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:30:03]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Chauvin is facing second-degree unintentional murder, third-degree murder, and second-degree manslaughter charges.

Let's go now to CNN's Miguel Marquez. He is in Minneapolis, a city that's been on edge now and waiting for this verdict any minute now.

I can't imagine what it's like -- Miguel.

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it feels like there is a lot of energy coursing through this city right now.

And there -- we're in front of the courthouse right now. I want to show you just what the scene is right here. Right in front of us, this is Courteney Ross, who is speaking, and some of her friends who are -- Courteney Ross is the girlfriend of George Floyd who testified in this case.

I just asked her a few minutes ago what she expects, given that this has come back so quickly, and she says they expect that it is guilty on all three counts. They also say that, if it's not, if there's a mixed verdict or it's innocent on all three counts, the only thing they would say is, "I pray for Minnesota."

I want to show you, just in the last few minutes, this has all developed here, where you can see a lot of press, but also lots and lots of people who have come from all over Minneapolis. It is not a sense of celebration, but it is a sense of relief down here.

I want to talk to Jesse (ph) real quick.

Jesse, we are live here. I was speaking to you earlier. We are live on CNN.

You heard about the verdict come in. Where did you come from?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I came from work, actually.

MARQUEZ: Were you downtown? Where's work?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.

I just got off work. And I came downtown. And I ran into you and a couple people. And they said that the verdict was in. MARQUEZ: And what is your expectation that it's come back in 10 hours?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My expectation is guilty.

MARQUEZ: On all three counts?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On all three counts. That's what I'm hoping for.

MARQUEZ: And if it is, what message does that send to the black community here, across the country, around the world?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it sends a positive message.

I think it's a step towards the right way as far more as us finally seeing justice for such a horrific incident. And I just really believe it's going to come back guilty

MARQUEZ: And how concerned are you that it could be a split decision or not guilty on all three counts?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not concerned about a split guilty at all, because -- I mean, a split decision -- because -- and this is the reason why, because so much of society right now is hanging on to it being guilty.

And if it's not, it's going to be chaos.

MARQUEZ: All right, thank you very much. We will be watching, along with you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're very welcome.

And I'm trying to read this poem called "George Floyd Is My Emmett Till," as I told you.

MARQUEZ: George Floyd and Emmett Till, that connection, he has a poem that he wants to read here tonight.

I also want to bring over -- do we have her? Come over here, guys. I want to bring over -- this is this is Courteney Ross.

Courteney, hold on. I'm going to put the mic up while she's speaking.

This is George Floyd's girlfriend.

COURTENEY ROSS, GIRLFRIEND OF GEORGE FLOYD: He was my soul mate.

He is someone I will be with during life and after death. I love him. He is a man with a big heart, like everyone was saying in the courtroom.

OK, baby.

MARQUEZ: Ms. Ross.

ROSS: And -- sorry, it's hard when someone -- I'm not used to all this.

MARQUEZ: Ms. Ross.

Courteney.

ROSS: Floyd was nothing but fun.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, she grieving right now. Just...

ROSS: He was funny and silly and prayerful and a man of God.

And he was out of this world. And I like to tell people a lot. Like, Floyd was a big man. And he was too big for this earth. And I see it now. I see that. He's over all of us right now.

And...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We got your back. We got your back.

MARQUEZ: Ms. Ross, will a guilty verdict on all three counts bring any solace you?

ROSS: I can't say. I just can't say.

QUESTION: Courteney, what would George Floyd think about all of this, what he created?

ROSS: I have always called him Floyd.

(LAUGHTER)

ROSS: So, George was always kind of like, who is that?

(LAUGHTER)

ROSS: Like, George, I don't know who that man is. I couldn't date him.

No, I'm just kidding.

What I know Floyd would want out of all of this is that people would be coming together, all people would be coming together. This isn't a time to separate. This isn't a time for us to blame or hurt each other. It's a time for us to come to go.

[16:35:03]

I know this verdict is coming back guilty. And when it does, I hope that his heart will really come through in everybody and know that he is such a loving man, and would want us all to just -- like Tashira (ph) said earlier, put our arms around each other and just love us, love each other today.

MARQUEZ: And what will guilty verdicts mean to Minneapolis? What will it mean to Minnesota?

ROSS: I think it'll mean change. It will mean change.

It's the first step in a long road to recovery. We have a lot of work to do in Minneapolis. But I believe Floyd came here for a reason. This is a sacred, sacred land. And we need to start respecting that again, and I know that that is what he would want.

Floyd was attached to this city. He was attached to the lakes, particularly lake Bde Maka Ska. And I know that it happened here for a reason. Maybe we are the epicenter for change. Maybe we're making the world look at things in a different way. I'm not sure, but I know it definitely start that had momentum.

MARQUEZ: And why so important to be standing in this physical space right now?

ROSS: I think so many of us have a lot of negative experiences with the government.

This is not a comfortable place for many of us to be or to look at, though it represents our city. And I love Hennepin County and I always stand for 612 Minneapolis.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's right. That's right.

ROSS: That's my city.

And -- but at the same time, I have had many bad encounters here. And so I think it's time that we show what this building is supposed to be about, and it's supposed to be about justice.

So it needs to come back with that guilty verdict, so we can start to believe again in what this is about.

MARQUEZ: Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Barry (ph), good luck to you.

Jake, just a little sense of -- I want to show you one other thing that's happening here on -- all the way on this side. They have actually set up a barbecue. And there is that sense, not quite of celebration, but certainly of relief, a great expectation that this is going to be guilty on all counts. If it's not, that may be even a bigger problem -- Jake.

TAPPER: Yes, you just heard there from Courteney Batya Ross, the girlfriend of the late George Floyd, expressing confidence that it will be a guilty verdict and that hopefully this will bring about some unity in the United States.

Miguel Marquez, thank you so much.

I want to go now straight to CNN's Sara Sidner. She's live outside the government building, the courthouse in Minnesota.

And, Sara, you have been talking to the Floyd family. What are they telling you? SARA SIDNER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So, I just heard from

Philonise Floyd, George Floyd's brother, and reminding folks that he was also the person that, the day after he laid his brother to rest, he went to Congress and spoke in front of them for the George Floyd Policing Act.

And so he is hoping for reform. But, right now, he is up in the courtroom. He is -- he told me that he was pacing, getting ready to go into the court to hear this verdict. He is now in the court. And he said to me, after all of this, for him, he has had a really hard time sleeping.

And he said: "I haven't been able to sleep throughout much of this." And he said: "Maybe hearing this verdict will finally help me get some sleep."

And in his mind, he wants the verdict to be a certain way. And he said, if it goes that way, then he might finally be able to get some real rest, because he hasn't since the day that his brother George Floyd was murdered on May 25, 2020.

He also said that this, he realizes, is historic for the world, for America, and that he was heartened to see that so many people cared about what happened to his brother. And he commented about so many people across America from different creeds and colors who came out in his name, and to see all the people.

And he kept mentioning: "I see all the people. I appreciate their support. Whether it be in the streets or in the halls of Congress, I see all of the people who have stood up for justice and stood up" for his brother and against what happened to his brother.

So, right now, he is inside of the court, waiting on the verdict, just like all of us -- Jake.

TAPPER: Although it does sound, though, Sara, like Philonise Floyd, George Floyd's brother, like George Floyd's girlfriend, Courteney Batya Ross, is optimistic that it will be a guilty verdict, based on what you're saying.

SIDNER: Absolutely.

And the reason for that, one, is -- he has said this over and over to me, long before the jury said they had a decision. He has said that he has faith and he believes leaves that no one could have watched that video, the video alone, and not come back with a guilty verdict.

[16:40:06]

He also realized after we talked, and I told him that the verdict had been reached, he said: "There were no questions."

And he noticed there were no questions by the jurors in this case. And, to him, that was a sign that they had looked at the -- all of the evidence in the trial, and that they didn't need to rewatch it again, and relook at it all again because they had made a decision. And he believes that decision will be guilty. But, again, we have to

be very careful. It is the 12 people, the 12 jurors that were chosen that makes that decision, and we're going to hear that decision very shortly.

TAPPER: All right, Sara Sidner, thanks so much. We will come back to you in a moment.

Let's go now to a different part of Minneapolis.

Adrienne Broaddus us is in a different part, I think downtown near a police precinct.

Tell us what's happening where you are.

ADRIENNE BROADDUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey there, Jake.

We're about a half-mile from the Hennepin County Government Center. If you look behind me, you will notice a crew with the city is installing more concrete barriers just in front of the roadway that leads to the police department.

On the other side of that truck, there's a gate. That gate wasn't there earlier today. It was delivered and installed moments before we learned jurors had reached a verdict. On the other side of the police department, the businesses here, Lola Red, have put up more boards to protect their building.

When this verdict, the news came that the verdict was reached, we were inside of a church at 38th and Chicago. If you sit down inside of the sanctuary of that church and look out the window, you can see George Floyd Square. You see where Floyd took the final moments of his life.

We shared with the pastor that we were speaking with for another story the jury has reached a verdict. He and his wife said their heart dropped. But they found a bit of comfort knowing the jury reached the verdict so quickly.

And one thing they also pointed out, so many have asked them, what do you think the outcome will be? He said they're not necessarily worried about the outcome. The bigger question at this hour is, what is most important? And they talked about humanity. He talked about the people he served for nearly 40 years on that corner.

Like Floyd, he moved to Minneapolis from Texas. And like other people in that community, he had issues with members of law enforcement at a young age. He said he had an encounter with police that left him with a brain -- a traumatic brain injury.

And he wants to use that experience, once we hear the verdict, to move forward to help people heal. He said, yesterday, when we heard the closing arguments, the defense said Floyd had an enlarged heart. The prosecution said Chauvin's heart wasn't big enough. He said heart is at the center of this, and he leads with love.

Downtown, around all of the barriers and barricades, there's a big billboard. It's black and in white letters, there's the word "Love." And that's what he wants to lead with, love -- Jake.

TAPPER: Adrienne Broaddus, thanks so much.

I want to go back to CNN's Don Lemon.

And, Don, one of the most remarkable things about this trial and about the George Floyd case -- and I don't know if my team has those murals, the pictures of those murals ready.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Yes.

TAPPER: But there have been pictures, paintings murals of George Floyd around the world, in Pakistan, in England, all over, as a symbol of injustice at the hands of the government.

This case has taken on a truly international meaning, representing the idea of people who do not deserve it being put down, being killed, being oppressed by their governments, often because of racism, but also just, in general, government vs. people.

LEMON: Yes.

And it all started in Minneapolis in what is now George Floyd Square. There was no George Floyd Square there, obviously, before this happened.

But it has also transformed in many ways to Black Lives Matter Way, which is in D.C., where you live, Jake.

But I think the reason it's become such a symbol is obviously because, number one, I really do think that it's because of the attention that this particular case got, because we were in quarantine, and because people didn't know where their lives were going, what was going to happen next, because we didn't know if our loved ones were going to be sick and we were -- or if we were going to be sick, or what was going to happen from moment to moment, if we were going to have a job or so on.

We have to remember where we were a year ago, and not very far along within a year from now, a couple months, May 25. We were basically sort of in the same place.

So, we were all sitting at home in quarantine. And I think the whole world was watching, because America looks -- I mean, because the world looks to America as a symbol of democracy.

[16:45:03]

And if there's any place on Earth that can guarantee freedom, and that guarantee what the Constitution says that we are in search of a more perfect union, there's no other place on Earth than the United States, and to see this atrocity happen on a city street in the middle of the day in the United States was just something that people could not wrap their heads around it worldwide. People in America couldn't as well. For people of color particularly it was a confirmation of all those things that people say well, you know, maybe it's an exaggeration, what have you.

But I think it's confirmation for people around the world, it was just sheer -- they were just stunned and they don't believe that something like that was happening in the United States and not in the some war zone or some Third World country.

TAPPER: So just to take a step back, the Black Lives Matter movement as I recall first hearing about it was in 2015 after the death of Michael brown in Ferguson, Missouri, and if we go back not even six full years. And I don't mean to pick on Hillary Clinton, but Hillary Clinton who certainly is someone allied with civil rights first asked about this, did not know what Black Lives Matter meant, made the same mistake that a lot of politicians did at that time and saying well all lives matter.

Now, we're at a point almost sixing years later, after all of these different cases, and maybe crescendoing with the death of George Floyd that because of the pandemic, as you note, but also because of how horrifying this video was, this 9 minutes and 29 seconds of a police officer with his knee on the neck of George Floyd while the crowd, while children begged the policeman to get off his neck and he didn't.

To the point that you have Mitt Romney marching with the Black Lives Matter movement in Washington, D.C. in 2020. It is a sea change in the culture, a sea change. Do you agree?

LEMON: Well, I think it's a sea change in awareness, not necessarily in practice, and so we will see what happens with this verdict, but it was not just Black Lives Matter, right? Because many people didn't see. It's so easy to see if you just added the word too, T-O-O, or Black Lives Matter also or Black Lives Matter, too, and I think it helps people understand what you mean.

Not that all lives don't matter.

TAPPER: Right.

LEMON: Black Lives Matter because that's what we're talking about at this point. It's obvious that white lives matter, but it wasn't just Black Lives Matter. Remember, it was Colin Kaepernick who took a knee for injustice, police injustice and for reform in this country.

And then you had Derek Chauvin with his knee on George Floyd's neck at first we thought it was 8 minutes and 46 seconds and then during the trial we learned it was 9 minutes and 29 seconds.

TAPPER: Right.

LEMON: So, there's been a number of things that led us to this. Remember, there was this. Very fine people on both sides. People said, okay, this is nuts.

And then there was Ahmaud Arbery, and we can't forgot how horrific that video is, horrific what happened to Ahmaud Arbery but how horrific the video is of Ahmaud Arbery jogging down a street and being shot with a shotgun and we see it. TAPPER: Yeah.

LEMON: And then we hear what happens to Breonna Taylor in her bedroom and then the death of George Floyd. So there's been a number of things that have led to this. But, yes, a sea change in awareness. We'll see if it's in practice when this verdict is read.

TAPPER: Don, we'll come back to you in a sec.

CNN's Omar Jimenez is at George Floyd square in Minneapolis at the site of this alleged crime.

Omar, what's it like there?

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jake, well the crowd lass started to grow here, of course, in anticipation of a verdict as you hear people start to chant as well. But when you make your way over to the spot where George Floyd took some of his final breaths, you see that, of course, the memorial aspect of this is still here.

But then when you pan up and look over to the left, you see how many people have started to form. Some of them, of course, press here in this moment. But people are anxious. They want the results in this trial. They want the verdict.

One woman we spoke to who actually seems to be leading some of the chants right now said that it doesn't matter to her what the verdict is. She feels that the momentum that has been grown from the movement over the course of a little under a year now is enough to propel people forward for generations to come.

[16:50:02]

And when you look over here, these are people, they are leading the chants. We're not aware that there's any television or something set up for them to watch to see when actually the verdict drops, but you see the passion is still here. They are leading. They want to prosecute the police, and one person we spoke to actually earlier today say that's what they do here in Minneapolis.

There's never a question. They wanted people -- they wanted the police, I should say, to be treated how any other person would be treated of if they had done the actions that Derek Chauvin had done, and so, that's what people are feeling here, and when you think about this moment that we're in, this moment that has been coming for almost a year now, that has been building up, this is why it's important.

This reminds you of the somberness and the reality of the situation that had a human life was lost at the hands of police, that a family still has a gaping hole. The only question is with this verdict does this now become a spark point for even further to come out of here in Minneapolis -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Omar Jimenez, and it's all in the hands of the jury right now. We're expecting them to come into the courtroom, to the government center and announce their unanimous decision after only ten hours. We're all riveted waiting to hear what they have to say. We understand that President Biden at the White House is at -- at his TV watching, waiting to find out what the verdict will be.

Let's bring in Anderson Cooper and his panel -- Anderson.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Jake, thank you very much. Appreciate it.

When the jury does come, and we're not sure if they'd been -- you believe that they've been sequestered at the hotel and that's where they came up with the verdict?

LAURA COATES, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: We believe so. That's why they have been sequestered for the evenings at the hotel. They could come and talk to their families and communicate. But they were deliberating very late last night, and the assumption is they are being transported to the courthouse during some part of this.

Remember, you were able to hand over notes through zoom because they didn't want to bring the defendant, the counsel, everyone in. The jury never goes into the room to actually hand over the question to the judge. It's always sort of done in this distanced way to give them their --

COOPER: So, what's going happen once they are brought back, whether now or not, when they are back in the courtroom, what happens?

COATES: They're going to sit in the jury box the way they have been through the entire trial. They will hand -- the foreman will hand the verdict to the judge who will review it quickly and ask if they were able to reach a unanimous verdict which has to happen in Minnesota. It must be unanimous.

COOPER: At this stage, does the judge already know what the verdict is?

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yeah, usually, the judge gets a look in advance. He knows what's coming. He will ask the foreperson of the jury, count one, how do you find, guilt or not guilty?

The foreperson will read the verdict. We deal that times three, and then the next big thing that happens is if there is a conviction, the prosecution often seeks to remand the defendant, to send him into jail.

Derek Chauvin has been out on bail pending trial. What changes if there's a conviction is that presumption of innocence is now gone, so it's common, it's up to the prosecutor if you want to ask this, and the judge doesn't always agree, but I've had cases like this where someone is out on bail, you say, judge, we now move to remand the defendant, and often, not always, often the judge says I grant that motion and he's off to prison.

COOPER: So, there's -- he might be able to go home or he might actually directly go to prison?

COATES: Well, it's called step back oftentimes and they could be table do it, because this is a murder conviction, one that's not a nonviolent crime. Sometimes, they give you the opportunity to being able to settle one's affairs before being brought in. But, of course, Derek Chauvin, if he is convicted of murder charges, one or more, or any of them, then there is an assumption that he's no longer table have the benefit of freedom.

But, again, this is not a sentencing opportunity yet. This will be the conviction or acquittal moment. The judge will still have to determine often through a report, discussions about remorse, et cetera.

He'll fill out some paperwork, will talk to the equivalent of a probation officer about his views on the crime and what he's done to sort of guide the opportunity in the judge's hand to say, what am I dealing with? What type of criminal or felon am I dealing with now? Am I talking about someone who is likely to be a recidivist, return to a life of crime, someone who needs treatment and other ways?

All of this holistic sentence will go take place before the actual time. The judge says here is the answer, of anything. We as Americans have changed over the course of time it's not a pipeline to prison post-conviction, it's about how we can rehabilitate offenders as well.

Van Jones, obviously, people are listening very closely to, it's going to be a conviction on all counts. How much does that matter in terms of the public's response?

JONES: I think it matters a lot. I think obviously if there's an acquittal, it's completely devastating, but if it's just the lower one, he's negligent, that didn't feel negligent. That didn't look like negligence, and so, I do think that it matters, you know, if it's all three, I think you're going to feel a level of vindication for this movement and for this community.

And don't forgot, this is not the only case in that area. I've talked to people on the ground there.

[16:55:03]

You have to understand about this. What -- Where is this happening? It's the most livable place and also has the biggest disparities.

Now, it's a great place to be white and a terrible place to be black. That's what everybody tells me, and they say that the level of friction between, you know, among community there, the Somali community there, the black community there hand the police is unreal. They feel like they are in a war zone all the time.

And then you bring in all these troops. You have a grieving community that's already traumatized and now you have police and troops everywhere. So they are literally just on pins and needles.

If you have a complete vindication of when what all these grass roots groups have been saying, then there's relief but if you come back with one judge and then if the sentencing guidelines give you a couple of years, it's going to be putting salt in a very big wound. COOPER: Chief Ramsey, just, you know, we have several hours now or

time where we're awaiting this verdict. Law enforcement also has time to try to figure out.

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Right.

COOPER: Obviously they have been going over contingency plans for quite some time.

RAMSEY: Well, they have been going over plans. You have to be prepared whether there's an acquittal or whether there there's a conviction because in many cities people will take to the streets, either in celebration or because they are upset because of the verdict. You have to be ready no matter what.

Unfortunately, they have some experience because in May with the killing of George Floyd, there was a lot of unrest, and so many of the areas where know you had unrest, you're going already have your platoons out there to be able to protect strip malls and different places like that where you're likely going to have some issues. You want to be able to have people just celebrate and, you know, express their First Amendment rights at the same time.

So you've got to have that balance there, and I think right now that's what's been taking place. There's been a lot of preparation. There's been a lot of conference calls between major city chiefs, conference of mayors, IECP and PERF (ph) talking about the things that went bad in May so that we don't repeat the same mistakes made in May. That's important.

JONES: Also on the other side of it you've got to try to have some public order and some safety, but you also had 50 grassroots organizations begging, saying you have now too much police presence on us. You've got these Humvees. You have all this stuff and the young people feel they are being pushed up against the wall.

They need the space to grieve. They need the space to celebrate and they need the space to be able to do it the right way, so sometimes, know, you're in a tough situation if you're local government there because if you don't have enough presence, you're going to get in trouble, but you can also overdo it.

So what my hope is that you have -- let me just give some praise to some of these groups. Black Business Collective, Reclaim the Black, Minnesota Youth Collective, Take Action Minnesota, ACER (ph), Movement Voter Project, those young people were out there when the cameras were there. They need space to protest tonight safely or celebrate tonight safely. I hope they give it.

COATES: What s concerning though is we have a Pavlovian response in America that when we have impending verdicts and you see buildings start to be boarded up and businesses start to close, that trust gap that's already there between our justice system and members of the community, text bands exponentially because in their minds they say you're preparing me for an acquittal. You are telling me if it's boarded up, you anticipate my unrest, my wrath. You anticipate the devolution of a protest into looting and other things.

And so part of what you're seeing in terms of what you're speaking about, Van, is that Pavlovian reflection and response saying what does this mean if you're calling out the National Guard? Did you get a head's up, Governor? Did you get a head's up, President? Did you get a head's up, Judge? Do you know something that we don't know?

And, finally on the point that you raised, Don, excuse me, Van, the difference between how you compare and what negligence locks like, Minnesota has a very specific and recent memory of what second-degree charges look like, second-degree manslaughter because Geronimo Jimenez who killed Philando Castile charged and acquitted with the second degree manslaughter charge.

Does that feel the same way for George Floyd to people? You had the officer now resign, Kim Potter, who killed Daunte Wright, same charge. Does that the feel same way as the 9 minutes and 29 seconds?

And so, you've got a population of people, human beings, who are saying if I'm going to compare. This doesn't feel like those cases and if that's all he gets that's going to be something that might contribute to that trust gap widening.

COOPER: Real quick.

RAMSEY: If I can just respond to something that Van said. One of the things that was discussed is not having a heavy-handed approach immediately. If you need people in riot gear, stage them out of sight. They can respond quickly, but you start off as low a level as you can.

COOPER: Let's go back to Jake.

TAPPER: Thank you, Anderson.

We are standing by for the verdict in the Derek Chauvin trial to be announced any minute. I'm going to hand it over to CNN's Wolf Blitzer right now -- Wolf.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Jake, thanks very much.

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