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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Recent Police Shootings Reignite Debate Over Use of Force; Funeral for Daunte Wright Held in Minneapolis; President Biden Sets Ambitious Goal to Cut U.S. Carbon Emissions 50 Percent By 2030. Aired 4-4:30p ET

Aired April 22, 2021 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to THE LEAD today. I'm Jake Tapper.

And we start with our national lead. And a nation grappling with whether and how to move forward on policing reform as well as members of social justice in combating racism.

Today, just a few miles from where Officer Police Officer Derek Chauvin was convicted of murdering George Floyd, a different family and a different community saying their final goodbyes to Daunte Wright. Wright was killed by police last week during a traffic stop. The police chief at the time said an officer, Kim Potter, mistakenly grabbed her gun instead of her Taser and fired at Wright, killing him. The officer has since resigned and later was charged with second- degree manslaughter.

Wright had been pulled over for an expired tag on his car. Then Officer Potter realized that Wright had outstanding warrants and tried to arrest him. Like the Floyd matter which began with a counterfeit $20 bill, or like with Eric Garner with began with him selling loose cigarettes. A minor infraction escalating into a white police officer killing a black man.

Daunte's aunt in an emotional interview this morning asked, quote, why do we have to keep burying our babies?

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NAISHA WRIGHT, DAUNTE WRIGHT'S AUNT: Why? Why did he have to die the way that he died? You know, my family has to still come to grips with that.

The black community is very accepting and we accept all. But to keep having our nephews, our sons, our fathers, our brothers and stuff taken from us for no, no reason at all is hard.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Just moments ago at the funeral of Daunte Wright, family lawyer Ben Crump and civil rights activist Reverend Al Sharpton spoke about the police reforms they believe are urgently needed.

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BENJAMIN CRUMP, WRIGHT FAMILY ATTORNEY: It's too often that traffic stops end up as deadly sentences.

REV. AL SHARPTON, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST: It's time to bring a new date where we don't have to videotape when we see a badge, to know that they're there to serve and protect, not treat us like we've been convicted.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: CNN's Miguel Marquez is live for us in Brooklyn Center, Minnesota.

Miguel, we also just heard from the Wright family, and understandably very emotional.

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Look, the Wright family and George Floyd's family have become very close. The Wright family today, very difficult to say good-bye to their 20-year- old son, and brother and nephew. This is a young child, father of one.

And this funeral was as much a good-bye, very difficult good-bye to Daunte Wright as it was a rally for many others who have died at the hands of police, while they were in police custody or while they were being arrested. All of it raising that concern about equal justice, equality under the law, policing and how police, when they approach an African-American. Why? Why so often is that different than when they approach white Americans?

His mother -- this father could barely get words out to talk about his son and say good-bye. His mother was frustrated that the roles should be reversed. Her son should be saying good-bye to him -- to her.

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KATIE WRIGIHT, DAUNTE WRIGHT'S MOTHER: My son had a smile that was worth a million dollars. When he walked in the room, he lit up the room. He was a brother, a, jokester. And he was loved by so many. He's going to be so missed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUEZ: So, the fact that Kim Potter, the former police officer at Brooklyn Center police department was charged so quickly with manslaughter, the fact that this week, we saw the murder conviction of Derek Chauvin in the death of George Floyd. For the Wright family, for families across Minneapolis, Minnesota, and the country, it feels like there is a window open now, a' window into the lives of black people and policing. And the hope is that window will stay open and it will lead to long-term reform -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Miguel Marquez, thank you so much. Two additional, quite different but unfortunately both deadly police

killings continue to have serious questions about policing, especially the use of force, especially when it comes to people of color.

CNN's Jessica Schneider is taking a closer look for us today. We want to warn you ahead of time, some of the video we're about to bring you is rather graphic.

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JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Four shots fired by Columbus Police Officer Nicolas Reardon now reigniting a national debate about what constitutes reasonable force from police with the city's mayor urging patients.

MAYOR ANDREW GINTHER (D), COLUMBUS, OHIO: This is a failure on the part of our community. Some are guilty, but all of us are responsible.

SCHNEIDER: Police bodycam video was released less than six hours after the fatal encounter Tuesday afternoon. It shows 16-year-old Ma'Khia Bryant pushing a person toward the ground before she lungs toward another person wearing pink with what appears to be a knife. That's when Officer Reardon fires four shots, killing Bryant.

The video prompted questions about how police are trained to react to a situation like this. Columbus police chief saying officers were taught when to use deadly force.

INTERIM CHIEF MICHAEL WOODS, COLUMBUS DIVISION OF POLICE: What I can say is when officers are faced with someone employing deadly force, deadly force can be the response the officer gives.

SCHNEIDER: But what about the how? On April 11th, a Minneapolis area police officer shot and killed Daunte Wright. Police say she mistakenly used a gun instead of her Taser.

POLICE OFFICER: (EXPLETIVE DELETED) I just shot him.

SCHNEIDER: Back in Columbus, the police chief there pushed back on the idea that his officer could have resorted to a Taser instead.

WOODS: If there's not deadly force being perpetrated on someone else at that time and also may have the opportunity to have cover, distance and time to use a Taser, but if those things aren't present and there is an active assault going on in which someone could lose their life, the officer can use their firearm to protect that third person.

SCHNEIDER: As for where to shoot, officers were trained to aim for the chest, the largest area of the body.

WOODS: We don't train for the leg, because that's a small target.

CHIEF ART ACEVEDO, MIAMI POLICE DEPARTMENT: That's not real world. That's not real life. But we don't get a second, third, four take. And so, we do train to shoot central mass.

SCHNEIDER: In Elizabeth City, North Carolina, where protesters are demanding answers after sheriff's deputies shot 40-year-old Andrew Brown Jr. on Wednesday while attempting to serve a warrant, there's body cam video but has not released it yet.

DARIUS HORTON, MEMBER, ELIZABETH CITY COUNCIL: I'm just hoping that the video footage for me, that video footage will speak volumes. That's what I'm looking for. I want to see what happened, because there's no way -- there's no reason, in my personal opinion that a warrant should end up in a man being dead.

SCHNEIDER: The seemingly endless succession of incidents captured on video where black people have died during encounters with police is renewing calls to change the way policing works.

CHIEF SHON BARNES, MADISON, WISCONSIN POLICE DEPARTMENT: We need a national standard for the way we conduct business. I think our community expects reform from us. We need to look at a first responder model but a second responder model. We're looking at things in our police department where we'll have mental health officers, mental health professionals who will go on these crisis calls.

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SCHNEIDER (on camera): And Chief Barnes' police department has actually implemented a new training model that emphasizes de- escalation and it stresses consideration of mental health when responding to a situation. He says it's called the ICAT training model, and it's actually a model that's being embraced by many police departments across the country, in, of course, what has become this moment of reckoning -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Jessica Schneider, thanks so much.

Let's discuss this further with former Chicago Police Officer Dimitri Roberts, and former Tucson, Arizona Police Chief Roberto Villasenor, was also part of President Obama's national task force on 20th century policing. Thanks to both of you for being here.

Roberto, let me start with you and let me start with what we saw in Columbus, Ohio, and the shooting of Ma'Khia Bryant.

The interim police chief in Columbus said that if an officer is faced with someone employing deadly force, deadly force can be the response, unquote. What are the options for a police officer who sees a suspect with a weapon like a knife? Is shooting to kill with a gun the only possible solution?

ROBERTO VILLASENOR, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: That's going to be dependent on each type of incident that the officer encounters. You can't give one blanket answer for the event. If we're talking about the one in question, it was clearly in the middle of a deadly attack with a knife toward the other individual in pink. I don't see what other choice the officer had, other than to try to stop that attack and save the life of the woman in pink. Some people talk about a Taser. Taser is not 100 percent effective all

the time. It's a useful tool but is not designed for use in a lethal force situation. So, in my opinion, the officer had no choice but to resort to deadly force to stop that attack and save that other individual's life.

TAPPER: Dimitri, obviously, each of these police shootings we're talking about is different. Each one has different situations, different circumstances. When you watch these incidents play out, over and over and over again, even though they are different, do you think there needs to be reform or do you think that the system is broken?

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DIMITRI ROBERTS, FORMER CHICAGO POLICE OFFICER: Well, there's no question that the system is broken and needs reform, but how do we get to that reform? The simple answer there is the better use of technology and really a contactless way for police officers not in daily force situations, but in situations where there can be a peaceful de-escalation of these things simply comes down to the officer and the citizens connecting to each other so they can feel a little bit safer, they can peacefully deescalate the situation and bring this to a sensible resolution unlike what we're seeing in these incidents over and over again.

TAPPER: Do you disagree with Roberto when it comes to what happened in Columbus, Ohio?

ROBERTS: I do, but don't get me wrong. I respect him and all the other officers that may have a different opinion. But I speak from my experience, and that experience is from working in one of the highest crime areas in this country. And what I can tell you, myself along with thousands of other Chicago police officers and of other officers around this country deal with situations like that on a daily basis and nobody ended up dead. So, I didn't hear that officer give any verbal directions. I didn't see him closing distance.

But at the end of the day, I've said this before, Jake, and it's worth saying it again. It takes a level of courage, it takes a level of commitment and it takes a level of dedication to get involved, and to wear the badge and do the job right. In my opinion, people dying unnecessarily, especially our children in this country, is just not the right way to do anything. That's not to take away from what the policy on these departments say, but that does not mean it's morally and ethically right.

And when you find yourself at the hands of another child dying, I can't see how we justify any of this.

TAPPER: Roberto, New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio suggested that every police officer in the United States, every one, should be retrained with a focus on de-escalation. What do you think?

VILLASENOR: I don't necessarily disagree with that. I think that that's an ongoing issue in police departments across the country. When I was on the task force, that's one of the g things that we recommended to retrain and re-emphasize for our officers the sanctity of life, the use of force only when it's a last resort. And when that force is use, it's only a reasonable amount of force proportionate to the threat being faced. And once that threat is remedied or dissipated then the force lessens.

You always have to use de-escalation to try and prevent force. That's your first step, and it's not just a tactical move where de-escalate, talk soft from a distance. It's how you treat people. It's from the get-go.

When you stop someone on a traffic stop, you treat them with respect. You don't stop barking and yelling at them from the get-go. Your being professional and respectful and that will go a long way towards keeping things peaceful.

TAPPER: Dimitri, you've been advocating for criminal justice reform for years, do you think we're in a different moment in this country where there might actually be an opportunity for the kind of change that you've been seeking? Policing reform, criminal justice reform in the wake of Derek Chauvin being found guilty of murder?

ROBERTS: Well, we better be, Jake, because if not, our children, our citizens as well as our police officers are going to continue to be injured and killed in the wake of incidents and they don't have to be. So, this is a call to not just my fellow officers, but to the country and say let's not further polarize these issues more than they've had to be. Let's bring our reasonable, sensible solutions to the table and let's move forward in a way that keeps all parties safe, both police and citizens, Jake.

TAPPER: And, Roberto, one of the issues I keep hearing from members of the black community both on air and off air is how come we in this country continue to see white killers like Dylann Roof taken in peacefully, while that we see people guilty of the smallest of offenses, like Eric Garner selling loose cigarettes, ending up dead? What do you say when people ask you that, if they do?

VILLASENOR: I think that they're making judgment based on the small portion of the picture. There's no argument that law enforcement has a disparate impact upon minorities in this country for a long time. However, the way it's been painted in media and social media is as if that's the only place that occurs.

There are a lot of non-people of color that are killed in interactions with police officers. And we also forget about the issue of lack of compliance. Sometimes a simple, small event, your lack of compliance on the individual, all of a sudden escalate into something of little force.

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I'm not excusing it, I'm not saying that's an excuse for bad behavior. But it's such a complex, large picture that you can't look at just one little element of it and paint that across and say this is what's occurring. There are a lot of people who get injured or, you know, have deadly accounts with law enforcement that are not people of color. But you don't hear about that.

TAPPER: Right, but, of course, a lot of innocent white people get killed too is not really -- is not really an argument --

VILLASENOR: No, it's not good either way. You don't want that either way. I agree with you 100 percent and I agree with what Dimitri said.

TAPPER: Dimitri?

ROBERTS: Yeah, we just got -- we have to take this moment while we're here and change the narrative. We are both law enforcement professionals here and we went out every day and tried to preserve the sanctity of life. And that is disproportionately impacting black people in this country at hands of white police officers. We can't surpass that. And there's no scenario where that's okay.

I, as well as other African-American police officers dealt with these situations in the same way. We have to bridge the cultural divide here. There is a big cultural divide.

And when a white police officer is such in fear of a black person because of the color of their skin that they pull out their gun first before they think about anything else, that is the root of the problem. And that's where we have to focus on these issues. But as I said before, Jake, we've got to clean house.

How do we clean house? There are racist elements of officers in agencies. There are a level of racism and division in this country that we need to take out of our ranks. Not just in the military. Not just in the government, but in our police agencies throughout this country. And that's where we have to start, because we can have all the tools in the world. If somebody's intent is to harm somebody they don't like or have biases against, we can have the greatest tools in the world and we're still going to have still the same problem.

TAPPER: Dmitri Roberts and Roberto Villasenor, thank you both for coming on today and for your work as law enforcement officers as well. Thank you so much.

Coming up, a sea change, the big new climate goal that President Biden just set on Earth Day.

Plus, the fate of Johnson & Johnson's vaccine in the U.S. could be determined, how quickly it could potentially return. That's ahead.

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TAPPER: In the politics lead and on Earth Day, an ambitious goal from President Biden. He pledged to cut U.S. greenhouse gas emissions in half or more by 2030.

Now, granted Biden is using 2005 levels already trending down as his baseline, but still Biden made the pitch while he had the attention of leaders from many of the world's most powerful nations including China and Russia, putting pressure on those leaders to follow suit as CNN's Kaitlan Collins now reports.

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JOSEPH R. BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We really have no choice. We have to get this done.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: With a sense of urgency, the U.S. is setting its sights on a U.S. ambitious climate goal this Earth Day.

BIDEN: This is the decisive decade. This is a decade we must make decisions that will avoid the worst consequences of the climate crisis.

COLLINS: President Biden is pledging to cut greenhouse gas emissions in at least half by the end of the decade, almost doubling the goal set by former President Obama. The new goal for fossil fuel use would transform almost every sector of the American economy and could set the stage for a partisan showdown.

BIDEN: When people talk about climate, I think jobs. Within our climate response lies an extraordinary engine of job creation.

COLLINS: Biden's pledge is a sharp 180 from his predecessor, who often denied science and defiantly walked away from the Paris climate accords.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT: A very unfair act for the United States. The Paris Accord was not designed to save the environment. It was designed to kill the American economy.

COLLINS: Biden rejoined the Paris Climate Accords on his first day in office and promised to reverse Trump's policies, moves that world leaders welcomed today.

ANGELA MERKEL, GERMAN CHANCELLOR: I'm delighted to see that the United States is back, is back to work together with us in climate politics.

BORIS JOHNSON, UK PRIME MINISTER: I'm really thrilled by the game changing announcement that Joe Biden has just made.

COLLINS: As the president tries to re-establish America on the world climate stage, he'll have to reassure skeptics, something his climate envoy John Kerry acknowledged today.

JOHN KERRY, SPECIAL U.S. ENVOY FOR CLIMATE: First question out of people's mouths was, what are you going to be? What you guys are going to do? You destroyed your credibility, left the Paris agreement. How can we trust you? What's going to happen in the next four years?

COLLINS: Biden is convening dozens of world leaders virtually, including those he recently clashed with, like Chinese President Xi Jinping.

PRES. XI JINPING, CHINA: The environment concerns the well-being of people in all countries.

COLLINS: The virtual summit may have made history but it also showed that even world leaders can have technical difficulties.

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EMMANUEL MACRON, FRENCH PRESIDENT: I now turn the floor to the president of Russian Federation, His Excellency, Vladimir Putin.

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COLLINS (on camera): It kind of felt like the "Curb Your Enthusiasm" theme song should be playing there, Jake, as some of those moments were happening. But in all seriousness, there are questions facing the Biden administration about just how practical this goal that they are setting today and whether or not they can really mean it because it's not enshrined in law and, of course, he could have a successor who comes around and reverses a lot of his climate policies.

But John Kerry was briefing reporters earlier today. He was asked if he believes this is practical. He said it's not only doable, Jake, he thinks they're going to be able to exceed this goal.

TAPPER: All right. Kaitlan Collins, thanks so much.

And that brings us to our "Earth Matters" series. President Biden is taking many of his cues on climate from NASA. That's right. The same brilliant folks currently controlling a rover on Mars are also using cutting-edge technology to try to figure out ways to reduce carbon gas that are a danger to our planet.

CNN's chief climate correspondent Bill Weir shows us how.

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BIDEN: Oh, science is unmistakable, science is undeniable and the cost of inaction keeps mounting.

BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: Oh, you could call it a renewal of American vows, and despite their massive reliance on coal, even China showed up. Join the promise to break an addiction of fuels that burn to save both life and treasure.

XI: Green mountains are gold mountains, to protect the environment is to protect productivity.

WEIR: Yes, promises are just promises. But considering that the last four earth days came under a president who refused to acknowledge the emergency --

TRUMP: We're at the cleanest we've ever been.

WEIR: Those who trust the science have fresh hope.

JOHN OPPERMANN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, EARTH DAY INITIATIVE: The environmental movement in the climate community is very hopeful but very anxious about where we go from here.

WEIR: Even as the pandemic forces rallies with avatars on screens and the Capitol lockdown prevents the Sunrise Movement sit-ins had an forced the promise of a Green New Deal, there are worries that members of Congress and corporate greed will get in the way at every sector of the economy.

OPPERMANN: People are concerned that we're just taking it seriously and whatever gets proposed history tell us that will likely get watered down.

WEIR: There are actually very smart people at Harvard considering what is called solar geo engineering to mimic (ph) volcanoes, to send sorties of airplanes or balloons or rockets to basically try to dim the sun with long distances. What do you think of that idea?

GAVIN SCHMIDT, SENIOR CLIMATE ADVISER, NASA: As a scientist, I think what an interesting process and it mimics what we see with the volcanoes and think that could work. And then, as a citizen, right, so my other hat, I'm thinking, no, this is a terrible, terrible idea.

WEIR: As part of his effort to inject climate science into every department in government, President Biden recently made Gavin Schmidt the acting head of climate science at NASA, where they not only measure planet cooking solution in the sky, but are now using their tools on everything from wind farm planning to carbon free aviation.

SCHMIDT: For the first time since I've been working on this, people are talking about solutions and reactions that are commensurate with the size of the problem. You know, it's not oh, well, let's just recycle our plastic stores. You know, people are talking seriously about how we cut emissions, and personally that leaves me room for optimism.

WEIR: So, on the 51st Earth Day, it seems like the age of denial is finally becoming the age of cost benefit analysis and action. And for young activist like Xiye Bastida who closed out the morning session, it's about time.

XIYE BASTIDA, CLIMATE ACTIVIST: You are the ones who are finding loopholes in your own legislations, resolutions policies and agreements. You are the naive ones if you think we can survive this crisis in the current way of living.

WEIR: Biden's pledged success will come down to how many around the world understand the enormous cost of doing nothing.

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WEIR (on camera): Jake, the Swiss insurance company Swiss Reid did try to put a cost on this and said the cost of inaction by the middle of the century would be about 20 percent of global GDP. That's $20 trillion a year to clean up after all those storms. But equally sobering if we meet the goals of the Paris Accords, because there's so much warming already baked in, global GDP will go down 4 percent regardless. TAPPER: All right. Bill Weir, thank you so much.

And be sure to tune in tomorrow night for a special CNN town hall with the U.S. special presidential envoy for climate and other members of the White House climate team, including Gina McCarthy, Michael Regan, Jennifer Granholm. Dana Bash will host "The Climate Crisis" tomorrow night at 10:00 p.m.

Can your favorite basketball player convince you to get a COVID vaccine if you're inclined not to? The new full-court press by the Biden administration, that's next.

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