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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Any Minute: CDC Panel Votes on Future Use of J&J Vaccine; Federal Prosecutors Examine Whether Gaetz Took Gifts, Including Travel and Paid Escorts for Political Favors; Pelosi's "Gucci Glove, Iron Fist" Approach to Politics. Aired 4-4:30p ET

Aired April 23, 2021 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to THE LEAD this Friday. I'm Jake Tapper.

And we start today with our health lead because we're waiting for a CDC group of advisers to decide how and whether, frankly, to move forward with the Johnson & Johnson vaccine. Right now, some of the leading experts in infectious disease in public health are debating if the U.S. should resume using the J&J vaccine, perhaps an added warning for specific group or individuals, or to continue to stop allowing the administration of the vaccine and to make it permanent.

The CDC recommended a pause on the vaccine last week, you'll recall, while it investigated a potential link between the shot and a very serious and very rare kind of blood clot. More than 7 million Americans have received the J&J vaccine, almost all without any severe complications, but there are at least 15 vaccine recipients out of the 7 million who developed the blood clotting condition and three of them died.

Today, Johnson & Johnson executives admitted a link between its vaccines and clots is, quote, plausible, but argue the shot is valuable because it's easy to distribute and protects against variants, as CNN's Alexandra Field now reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, CDC DIRECTOR: We need to act swiftly after that analysis.

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The fate of Johnson & Johnson's single-shot vaccine right now in the hands of a CDC advisory committee expected to issue new guidance soon that will likely put J&J back into arms.

WALENSKY: I do think there's plenty of people who are interested in the J&J vaccine if just for convenience as well as for single-dose option.

FIELD: That guidance may also come with a new warning added to the product about the possible risk of extremely rare blood clots. DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND

INFECTIOUS DISEASES: They will allow it to be given because they feel that the risk of COVID-19 far outweighs the very rare, rare occurrence of this serious adverse event.

FIELD: In the U.S., ten days after a decision to pause use of J&J regulators are still considering the evidence in their investigation of 15 cases of rare and severe blood clots among women and three deaths. That's out of more than 7 million people who got the shot in the U.S. but health experts stress a decision to resume use now would come with added safety benefits.

DR. FRANCIS COLLINS, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH: I think it is important to point out that this is a treatable condition if you recognize it right away. It's been good to have this pause just to get everybody apprised of that, so that all physicians know this is something to watch out for.

FIELD: Just as the country's third vaccine could return to the market in even ever bigger push to once again get more shots in arms.

The average daily number now slipping below 3 million following the mid-April high of 3.4 million daily shots.

JEFF ZIENTS, WHITE HOUSE COVID-19 RESPONSE COORDINATOR: We've gotten vaccinations to the most at risk and those most eager to get vaccinated as quickly as possible. We know reaching other populations will take time and focus.

FIELD: That effort could get a boost soon. Vaccine eligibility now considered likely to expand to children under the age of 16 in a matter of weeks.

DR. ROBERT FRENCK, DIRECTOR, VACCINE RESEARCH CENTER AT CINCINNATI CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL: I'm quite hopeful that even by May that we would have a vaccine available for 12 and above.

FIELD: Following a review of data collected from a large study of thousands of pregnant women, the CDC issuing guidance that now goes a step further than it did before.

WALENSKY: CDC recommends that pregnant people receive the COVID-19 vaccine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FIELD (voice-over): And, Jake, while we are waiting really at any moment now for a recommendation from that CDC advisory committee, it doesn't mean you would necessarily see shots going into arms right away. The CDC and FDA would have to approve the recommendation made by the committee. That said, there are 9 million doses of Johnson & Johnson vaccines distributed across the country that are theoretically ready to go once the green light is given.

A Johnson & Johnson official did speak to the committee today defending this vaccine, calling it critical not just to the U.S. but to the world because of that ease of distribution, the fact that it is a single-dose shot -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Alex, thanks so much.

Let's discuss with CNN's chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta,

Sanjay, what do you think will be the most likely decision from the CDC panel today?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I think, first of all, there will be a decision. I mean, they won't kick the can down the road. I think the decision is most likely they will lift the pause, and it will probably, it sounds like everyone is telegraphing, it will be something like what we saw in Europe, what the European Medicines Agency, where the pause will be lifted but the vaccine will come with warnings, warnings, you know, of this particular condition.

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But also telling people that if you've had a history of low platelets in the past, bruising, bleeding or a history of blood clots, you need to talk to -- you know, certainly let the physician to know about that, also a message to health care providers that if somebody has had this vaccine and develops these sorts of symptoms associated with these clots, that has to be treated in a very specific way. That was one of the big lessons I think that came out of this pause as well.

Blood clots you typically treat with a blood thinner known as heparin. You wouldn't use that with this particular condition. I think the pause lifted with those caveats, Jake.

TAPPER: And you heard the physician, I think it was Francis Collins, I might be mistaken, in that piece saying that if this condition is caught quickly enough, early enough in these very rare cases, it can be -- it can be prevented. How do you catch it?

GUPTA: Yeah, it's really interesting. So, what seems to be happening here and, again, there's not a direct cause and effect. That takes a while to establish. But what seems to be happening is that in response to the vaccine you make these antibodies. The antibodies are to the coronavirus, but the antibodies may have also be affecting some of the clotting factors in your blood, so you're actually starting to develop clots in one area of the body and develop bleeding problems in another area of the body.

The way that you sort of combat this at times, there are certain blood thinners that can work well to help resolve the clot without worsening bleeding, but sometimes you have to give something known as an immunoglobulin, something to sort of tamp down the antibody response to those specific blood components. So it's -- it's a little bit involved, but one of the things in the European Medicines Agency, they said if somebody has this problems, you right away want to get a specialist typically known as a hematologist involved, someone who is a specialist in blood disorders to really help guide that treatment.

TAPPER: Now, President Biden said that no matter what happens with the J&J vaccine, it will not affect the ability to affect every American adult who wants a shot. Do you have confidence in the supply of other vaccines, Pfizer, Moderna or could what happens with J&J be a road bump?

GUPTA: Well, it's an interesting problem, Jake. I think that overall numbers-wise, and we can show you the numbers. I mean, there's plenty of vaccine ultimately that would be available, Moderna and Pfizer. We know that by July, there should be plenty of vaccine available to vaccinate the country, really at least all the adults in the country.

What you hear from a lot. I was getting a lot of e-mails from parents of college students, for example, who, you know, kind of want the J&J vaccine. They are not sure they won't be around for the second shot. There's transient populations in the country, so there's -- even though if you look at the shots before the pause, J&J was making up 1 out of every 17 doses administered. There's certain populations that this would be very beneficial in the United States.

And, you know, around the world because of the not needing the cold storage. It can get into a lot of areas that the mRNA vaccines have a harder time, you know, addressing. So it's beneficial for sure. We can vaccinate without it, but it does make it a lot easier.

TAPPER: Yeah. And, again, the risks of COVID are much worse and much greater than the risks of this clotting situation.

Sanjay, today, the CDC officially recommended that pregnant women get the coronavirus vaccine. This is after a study found no safety concerns in pregnant women who got the vaccine in the third trimester, no safety concerns for their babies. Why is this an important change in the language they are using?

GUPTA: Well, you'll remember in the original trials, pregnant women were not included. So the data they have been collecting has been real world data since the vaccine was authorize and it was two things that popped out. One is that we just saw evidence of a safety signal with the clots and J&J, a few in a million sort of scenario. That's how granular they can get with finding these things.

They didn't find safety signal issues with pregnant women specifically, but the other thing they have also noted now, Jake, over the last several months is pregnant women who develop COVID typically have worse outcomes than women who are not pregnant at the time of the same age who develop COVID. So it's not only do you have a safety issue here, you have an added benefit of actually protecting people who have more adverse outcomes who are pregnant.

When you're pregnant, oftentimes your immune system can be a little tamped down because you're carrying a baby that. Can hurt you if you develop an infection, so it's added benefit and seemingly, you know, low risk.

TAPPER: All right. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thank you so much, my friend. Good to see you. Have a good weekend.

GUPTA: You, too. TAPPER: We're going to continue to watch for that vote on the Johnson

& Johnson vaccine.

Plus, coming, a growing divide among colleges and universities. The debate over mandating COVID vaccines for college students. Should colleges require it?

Then, a story breaking right here on THE LEAD. More potential problems for embattled Republican Congressman Matt Gaetz of Florida. The feds are involved. We'll bring you the details right after this break.

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TAPPER: In our politics lead now, new details about the federal investigation into embattled Florida Republican Congressman Matt Gaetz. Sources are telling CNN that prosecutors are investigating whether the Florida Republican took gifts, including travel and paid escorts, in exchange for political favors. This is all part of an ongoing probe. Also examining whether Gaetz engaged in a relationship with a girl that began when she was 17 years old.

CNN's Paula Reid joins us now.

Paula, what are federal investigators looking at?

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Good afternoon, Jake.

Sources briefed on the matter say the Justice Department is scrutinizing a 2018 trip to the Bahamas involving Congressman Gaetz and several young women. They are specifically looking at whether that getaway was part of an orchestrated effort to illegally influence the congressman on the issue of medical marijuana.

Now, CNN has previously report Gaetz is under investigation for engaging allegedly in a relationship with a woman that -- who was just 17 when that relationship began.

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We've also reported that Gaetz attended sex parties in Orlando with other prominent Republicans, that those parties involved women, drugs and sex in exchange for money.

Now, CNN has also learned that investigators already have one key witness who is cooperating and that is Joel Greenberg. He's the former Seminole County tax commissioner and he's a close associate of Gaetz. He also attended those sex parties. He was indicted on multiple charges including sex traffic, and he's expected to plead guilty in the coming weeks

TAPPER: So, you report that a number of Gaetz's close associates have ties to the medical marijuana industry, like who? Who are you talking about? REID: So, the congressman has a long history for advocating for

medical marijuana. He's introduced several pieces of legislation at the state and federal levels seeking to loosen laws regulating the drug. Now, according to reports, one of these people, Dr. Jason Pirozzolo, a Florida doctor who founded a medical marijuana advocacy group, accompanied Gaetz on the 2018 trip to the Bahamas.

Gaetz has referred to the doctor as one of his best friends, and the pair have repeatedly intersected over medical marijuana. As far back as 2014, Gaetz, then a state representative in Florida, introduced the medical marijuana legislation just two weeks after vacationing with Pirozzolo in the Florida Keys. Just one week after the legislation passed, Pirozzolo launched a medical marijuana consulting company.

Then in 2018, when Gaetz introduced the Medical Cannabis Research Act, a source tells CNN the congressman hand-delivered a fully written draft of the bill to his staff and it overlapped significantly with the agenda that the doctor's group had been pushing, and neither Gaetz nor Pirozzolo have been accused by the Justice Department of any wrongdoing or charged with a crime.

Pirozzolo's lawyer declined to comment and spokesman for Gaetz also declined to comment on the substance of our reporting that the congressman has previously denied ever paying for sex -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Paula Reid, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

As Republicans grapple with how to handle the Gaetz situation, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi also is facing unique challenges wrangling members of her own party, the Democrat.

So, let's bring in the Washington bureau chief for "USA Today", Susan Page, who has a brand new great biography on Pelosi out called "Madam Speaker."

Susan, congratulations on the book and the great reviews.

You describe Speaker Pelosi's relationship with the so called "squad", these four young, very progressive congresswomen, Democratic congresswomen. You describe the relationship as complicated, especially perhaps with Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York, the representative from New York. She came in day one and she joined that sit-in protest in Pelosi's office, calling for climate action.

But you recall in your book, Pelosi identified with AOC and the squad and their passion. She told you, quote, I said to these people, I've been you. I was pushing a stroller and caring a sign. I've been you.

Now, fast forward three years later. How is their relationship now?

SUSAN PAGE, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, USA TODAY: Well, it's still complicated. It is publicly respectful. It's sometimes fraught in private, and I think we're going see more strains as the -- as the squad and other -- the most progressive forces in the Democratic Party and in the Democratic House push for bigger and bolder policies. You know, Nancy Pelosi is definitely a liberal. She agrees with some

of the most liberal policies, but she's also a pragmatist. She's very much focused on what can you actually get done, and I think that's where she's come to loggerheads with the squad, and AOC in particular at some points because she sometimes think they are naive, not respectful of the sausage-making process and what compromises that can sometimes entail.

TAPPER: I know that a lot of the mess. Democratic leadership in the House think that the "defund the police" language hurt House Democrats in their ability to win seats. In fact, they lost seats.

PAGE: Yeah, a big surprise in the last election. Nancy Pelosi up until the time the returns came in thought they were going to gain seats in the House. They didn't. And some of those members from moderate districts, from swing districts blamed the defund the police rhetoric. That phrase in particular was hurting them with -- with swing voters. That is not a phrase you will hear come out of Nancy Pelosi's month.

Another one, pack the court. You know, you had Jerry Nadler, the chairman of the Judiciary Committee, introduce the legislation to expand the Supreme Court. The next day, Pelosi said, would she bring it up to the House for a vote? No.

TAPPER: So, Speaker Pelosi and Vice President Harris, they're going to make history next week sitting behind President Biden when he addresses the joint session of Congress. We all, of course, remember when Pelosi tore up the written speech from Donald Trump in a similar situation in February of 2020.

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Did you ever get a sense that she regretted that action, that moment?

PAGE: You know, I talked to her at length about that, and she -- Nancy Pelosi is not a person for expressing regrets in general but about that incident in general no. You know, she was sitting there. She had gotten the president -- Trump had given her a text of the speech as is customary.

She was scanning through it to see what he was saying. There is something that he had written down in the text that she thought was wrong and wanted to mark. She couldn't find a pen. She end the little draw that's up there on of the dais, the drawer was empty so she made a little tear in the corner so she could find her place where the untruth was in her mind and there was another and another and kept making a sires of tears in the margin and by the time he was done, she said -- I decided if he was going to shred the truth, I was going to shred his speech.

She stood up, she tore it in half four times. Meanwhile, of course, Mike Pence, the vice president, standing next to her, pretending not to notice what it was she was doing.

TAPPER: Pelosi, her red coat symbolizes another moment that her fans consider iconic when she left the White House in 2018. She jokes, now to you that she can't wear the coat anymore. She's obviously very aware of optics. How important is that skill as she, you know, has reigned in Washington for so long?

PAGE: Yeah, very important. You know, never more important than it was in the four years of the Trump administration when she became the Democratic face of the opposition to the president, starting with the first meeting, the time she was wearing the red coat, the first time as -- after Democrat won control of the House, that she and Chuck Schumer were sitting down with the president and vice president, and her sharp retort to Trump when he suggested maybe she wasn't in such a powerful position was something that really fortified her troops behind her and was a signal of what was going to follow for the next couple of years.

TAPPER: You end the biography with the lessons of power from Nancy Pelosi saying in part, quote: Wait to act until you have the votes to win and keep some extra in your pocket. Display a Gucci glove when possible; wield an iron fist when necessary.

Do you see an issue where the strategies are working to Pelosi's advantage in particular?

PAGE: Well, you know, she has the longest tenure as the leader of a party in the House of Representatives since Sam Rayburn. She has been responsible personally for the passage of some of the biggest pieces of legislation that we've had in this century, including the financial bailout in 2008 and the Affordable Care Act in 2009.

She -- if you want to look at whether the iron fist and the Gucci glove has worked for her, I think you jut looked at that. And look at the current debate. She's gotten through the House, that $1.9 trillion COVID relief bill. We'll see if she'll be able to get this next big infrastructure bill through the House. I would say that people have generally lost money in betting against Nancy Pelosi.

TAPPER: Yeah, that's certainly true, whatever you think of her politics. She's been version very consequential.

Susan Page, her new book is excellent. It's called "Madam Speaker." Thank you so much.

PAGE: Thank you, Jake.

TAPPER: Coming up next, President Biden set to unveil his next big plan. What's in the proposal, and who's going to pay for it? That's next.

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TAPPER: In the politics lead, as President Biden approaches his first 100-day in office mark, the White House today is announcing his first presidential foreign trip. He's going to head to the U.K. in June and on to Brussels. But, first, Biden has a busy domestic agenda. Climate is dominating

today. He's going to push for an infrastructure deal with Congress, of course, and then there is still COVID, CNN's Jeff Zeleny reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Biden is set to unveil the next piece of his economic agenda during a speech next to a joint session of Congress.

JOSEPH R. BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It has two parts, the American Jobs Plan and the American Families Plan.

ZELENY: After outlining a sweeping infrastructure package in Pittsburgh late last month, the White House is putting the final touches on a so-called Human Infrastructure Plan.

Together, the proposals amount to a nearly $4 trillion investment in reshaping the American economy.

Highlights of new American Family Plan, officials tell CNN, including reducing child care costs, increasing paid family leave and making community college tuition free.

To pay for the plan, the White House is considering nearly doubling capital gains tax for people making $1 million or more, taxing those gains the same as ordinary income.

The proposal also calls for raising the top marginal tax rates for households making more than $400,000 a year to 39.6 percent from the existing rate of 37 percent.

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: These proposed numbers which are consistent with what he talked about on the campaign trail when he was running for president, what I can say it will only affect people making more than $1 million a year.

ZELENY: As the president hits the 100-day in office mark next week, the administration's ambitious proposals are stacking up. Negotiations are set to intensify on Capitol Hill after Biden addresses lawmakers next Wednesday before hitting the road to sell his plans.

On the second day of his virtual climate summit at the White House, the president making the economic argument for addressing the crisis.

BIDEN: When we invest in climate resilience and infrastructure, we create opportunities for everyone. That -- that's the heart of my jobs plan that I've proposed here in the United States.

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