Return to Transcripts main page

The Lead with Jake Tapper

Biden: Action on Climate Change & Infrastructure Will Create Jobs; Recent Police Shootings Reignite Debate Over Use of Force; Nearly 75 U.S. Colleges Requiring Students to Get Vaccinated; Is Futuristic Tesla Without Autopilot Safe?; CDC Advisers Recommend Continued Use of Johnson & Johnson Vaccine in U.S. for People 18+. Aired 4:30-5p ET

Aired April 23, 2021 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On the second day of his virtual climate summit at the White House, the president making the economic argument for addressing the crisis.

[16:30:05]

JOSEPH R. BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When we invest in climate resilience and infrastructure, we create opportunities for everyone. That -- that's the heart of my jobs plan that I've proposed here in the United States.

ZELENY: That jobs plan and the rest of his economic priorities present the first test for Biden's ability to navigate the slim Democratic majorities in Congress as Republicans increasingly make clear they intend to stand against his agenda.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZELENY (on camera): And that speech to a joint session of Congress next Wednesday, Jake, will only be attended by fewer than half all lawmakers. We're being told about 200 invitations will be going out because of restriction, because of the pandemic.

And First Lady Jill Biden will be on hand but she will not be surrounded by guests like first ladies normally are. Of course, that may come next year at his first official State of the Union -- Jake.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: All right. Let's hope so.

Jeff Zeleny, thanks so much.

This Sunday on "STATE OF THE UNION", join my co-host Dana Bush for an exclusive interview with Vice President Kamala Harris.

Plus, West Virginia Democratic Senator Joe Manchin joins, as well as the junior senator from West Virginia, Republican Shelley Moore Capito. That's at 9:00 a.m. and noon on Sunday.

Coming up, a re-examination of policing in America. I'm going to talk to the prosecutor from the Freddie Gray case next.

Also ahead, running out of time and running out of oxygen. The search for 53 people on a missing submarine.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:35:55]

TAPPER: In our national lead today, the impact of the George Floyd case continues to spark dialogue about policing reform.

Here to discuss, Baltimore City state's attorney, Marilyn Mosby.

State Attorney Mosby, thanks so much for joining us.

So, you, of course, were at the center of the case in 2015 when 25- year-old Freddie Gray was killed after he was arrested by police and transported in a van and still unclear how exactly or why exactly he died. You prosecuted six Baltimore police officers and you brought dozens of abuse charges and yet there were no convictions.

So as somebody who has tried to fight the good fight here and struggled, what do you make of the moment in which we find ourselves today?

MARILYN MOSBY, MARYLAND STATE'S ATTORNEY, BALTIMORE CITY: So I think it's a great question and thank you for having me. The reason this moment is so incredibly important, Jake, is because there is finally an acknowledgement and a recognition what it's been like to be Freddie Gray and Mike Brown and Ahmaud Arbery and Sandra Bland and Eric Garner and the black uniform lieutenant in the United States Army, what it's like to be black in America and to engage with the police.

And so, know, when we talk about the infliction of excessive force and the refusal to render aid and the complete and utter indifference to black lives, that for black people in this country is policing in America and Keith Ellison did a phenomenal job, right? He had some video evidence that could not be contradicted and in this moment, I feel cautiously optimistic. I think that this is the first step towards equality and accountability.

That accountability is important because if you remember the local prosecutor, Mike Freeman, didn't have the courage to apply that accountability. Accountability is what led in Baltimore, you know, we didn't have cameras depicting the trial from start to finish. We didn't have direct evidence of the murder and unlike the Chauvin trial, we had to rely on circumstantial evidence and police witnesses.

TAPPER: Right.

MOSBY: What we saw in the Chauvin trial is this crumbling of the blue wall of silence. We had training officers that testified for the defense. We had the Fraternal Order of Police that touted sabotaging the case. TAPPER: So, do you think -- I mean, I was going to ask you that

because what was so remarkable in the Derek Chauvin trial was the fact that his own police chief and other police on his force testified against him. You don't see that very often.

Do you think now there's a recognition by good cops, we need to stand up for what's right and testify against bad cops for our own sake?

MOSBY: Absolutely, and I think that this is the first step towards that type of accountability, and if you look at like what happened in Baltimore, I know that the Department of Justice is coming out and they are going to start to do a pattern and practice and an investigation into their -- their practices in the police department, but that accountability in the city of Baltimore led to an exposure.

A week after I charged those officers, the Department of Justice came in, exposed discriminatory policing practices of the eighth largest practices in the country. That exposure ultimately led to reform. We now had a federally enforceable consent degree, right? And they exposed the pattern of discriminatory enforcement.

We can point to tangible reforms that were actually put into place as a direct result of that accountability, but there are also systemic reforms. There are also cultural reforms that have to take place if we don't want to see what has been taken place for black people in this country over and over and over again.

TAPPER: Now, of course, most of your job as state's attorney is working with police who bring criminals -- I mean, generally speaking, who bring criminals who, are you know, bad and blights on society. How is it working with police in this era when most of your work depends upon their work and there being excellent even though you've gone after police when they have not act that had way?

[16:40:01]

How has that dynamic worked?

MOSBY: What can I can tell you is that we have prosecuted approximately 33 police officers since Freddie Gray and convicted them. We have an overall in 2019 because of the pandemic. We couldn't really use the calculation, an overall 90 percent conviction rate. By no means do we measure our success by that, but as prosecutors, our only sort of barometer of success is justice.

And so, that's incredibly important. As I stated we can point to the tangible reforms, the consent decree, the full implementation of body- worn cameras on all officers, use of force policies, de-escalation policies that emphasizes sanctity of life, the affirmative duty to intervene if your fellow officers cross the line.

We saw that in some other cases, you know, the duty and the mandate to call a mandate when a prisoner asks for it, the mandate for police to seat belt prisoners. I mean, and to have cameras, not having to rely on circumstantial evidence but have to that image.

TAPPER: Right.

MOSBY: That's something that has stuck out in the Chauvin trial that could not be contradicted. Seeing his life snuffed out for 9 minutes and 29 seconds.

TAPPER: Yeah. Those cameras are very, very important.

Marilyn Mosby. Thank you so much. Good to see you again. Appreciate your time today.

MOSBY: Thank you for having me.

TAPPER: A dangerous new flaw has been potentially exposed in Tesla's cars. We're going to show you what can go wrong. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:45:43]

TAPPER: New in our health lead, California's two largest university school systems, the University of California Systems and the California State University Systems just announced that every on- campus student, faculty member and staff member needs to be vaccinated either by their return this fall or when at least one of the vaccines gets full, not emergency FDA approval, whichever comes later.

CNN's Bianna Golodryga now reports that some schools are still hesitant to require the vaccine. They fear legal consequences.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was happy. I already wanted to get vaccinated. I have no problems with getting vaccinated.

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For these Rutgers University students any chance at normalcy would be a real shot in the arm.

CAITLIN SNEE, RUTGERS UNIVERSITY STUDENT: Have more students come back and be in person and like hopefully like get a real college experience.

ANTONIO CALCADO, CHIEF OPERATION OFFICER, RUTGERS UNIVERSITY: We feel vaccine is the game changer for us to bring back at many people as we can.

GOLODRYGA: School officials like Antonio Calcado saying mandating all students be vaccinated for COVID-19 before returning to campus in the fall is the best and safest way to bring students back.

CALCADO: They deserve to have the experience that they have been looking forward to and we think that this is a small price to pay to do it.

GOLODRYGA: Rutgers was one of the first but they're not alone. Nearly 75 other universities including Duke, Georgetown, Brown, Cornell, Notre Dame and Syracuse are requiring that students get vaccinated.

CALCADO: Students will be required to upload the vaccination cards.

GOLODRYGA: Calcado compares the policy to proof for other vaccines such as measles and mumps required in public and private schools across the country.

CALCADO: We already require and mandate a number of different vaccines. So, we have a policy in place.

GOLODRYGA: Similar to other vaccines, exemptions for medical or religious beliefs can be requested.

DORIT REISS, LAW PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA HASTINGS: Vaccine management and education go back a long time and have been upheld by courts because it creates a safety net vulnerable to outbreaks.

GOLODRYGA: Despite that history, other schools are taking a different approach. The University of Colorado at Boulder says it is not requiring vaccines at this time because they are being administered under the FDA's emergency use authorization or EUA, but is strongly encouraging students to get them.

REISS: There's a legal question can you mandate a vaccine under an EUA and the law isn't clear on that.

GOLODRYGA: State policies may impact a school's decision. Florida Governor Ron DeSantis issued an executive order banning businesses from asking to seek proof of a COVID-19 vaccine one day after Nova Southeastern University announced it would require vaccinations. The school sys it is now reviewing the order.

Then there are schools like Ohio State which are avoiding mandates all together, instead saying everyone is encouraged to get vaccinated as soon as they are able to do so. The vaccine has been proven to be safe and effective.

Many schools have yet to announce a vaccine policy, perhaps an indication of just how complicated the issue is, as students remain hopeful for a return to campus normalcy.

BELLA FUSCO, RUTGERS UNIVERSITY STUDENT: It gives me hope that things will be more normal than they are now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, I'm just happy to get back and I'll be able to see all my friends again.

GOLODRYGA: Walking alone through a still deserted Rutgers campus, Calcado has no regrets over their decision.

CALCADO: The fun component is literally pulled out of it.

GOLODRYGA: And your view is the key to get back to fun is through vaccine?

CALCADO: It is.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GOLODRYGA: Now one important area to watch, Jake, is how this impacts international students. Take Rutgers, for example, they have over 9,000 international students.

For those who haven't been vaccinated the school will provide vaccines, of course, but the real situation and the question comes for those students who have been vaccinated with non-FDA-approved vaccines. There's no science behind whether or not they can be double vaccinated and the school will only accept FDA-approved vaccines. You can imagine other universities and colleges will be facing similar issues as well.

TAPPER: Yeah, there are plenty of countries, including ones close to us where they don't have access to Pfizer and Moderna.

[16:50:00]

Bianna Golodryga, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Right now, right this minute, the CDC panel is voting on the future of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine in the United States. We're going to bring you the results to you of that vote once we have it.

But now to our tech lead. A deadly crash in Texas is raising questions now about the safety of Tesla's autopilot feature. Police say that nobody was sitting in the driver's seat when the car crashed and killed both people inside. Despite Tesla's assurance that autopilot only works with a driver behind the wheel.

CNN's Pete Muntean reports for us now with at least 28 open investigations into various Tesla incidents, lawmakers are warning that Tesla safety concerns are becoming a troubling pattern.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Autopilot is the futuristic Tesla feature that drivers love.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look at this, we're on autopilot.

MUNTEAN: Tesla says the system is designed to reduce the workload of attentive drivers, but it's facing new scrutiny after this crash in a Texas neighborhood last week. Police say this 2019 Tesla Model S slammed into a tree with nobody in the driver's seat. Both men on board died.

ELON MUSK, TESLA CEO: The Tesla design studio.

MUNTEAN: Tesla CEO Elon Musk says car data logs showed autopilot was not enabled. Even still, the crash prompted two federal investigations and a demonstration by "Consumer Reports."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No one should operate their car like this on a road.

MUNTEAN: On a closed course, test drivers say they were easily to trick autopilot into operating without somebody behind the wheel. The driver sets the system speed to zero and climbs into the passenger seat while the driver side seat belt remains buckled.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was able to increase the set speed by turning the wheel on the steering wheel and at this point I was completely driving on autopilot with no one in the driver's seat.

WILLIAM WALLACE, CONSUMER REPORTER: I was horrified when I saw what was possible.

MUNTEAN: William Wallace, the head safety policy adviser for "Consumer Reports."

WALLACE: Effectively, "Consumer Reports" tricked the system and we only did it to demonstrate just how much more is needed from Tesla when it comes to safety.

MUNTEAN: In a new letter, a pair of Senate Democrats are demanding a swift investigation by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. The agency has 24 open investigations in the Tesla incident.

In the letter, Senator Richard Blumenthal says he's worried Tesla safety concerns are becoming a pattern.

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): There needs to be immediate investigation and intervention by the federal agencies but Tesla itself bears a moral and likely legal responsibility to do more and do better to protect its drivers.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MUNTEAN (on camera): Tesla has not responded to our requests for comment. Its instructions to drivers say they should be ready to take over at any time.

"Consumer Reports" says other cars ensure that with eye-tracking sensors, a future "Consumer Reports" says is critically absent on Teslas -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Pete, thanks so much.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

TAPPER: And we have that breaking news in our health lead. A CDC panel has just voted and the panel is officially recommending that the U.S. should resume using the Johnson & Johnson coronavirus vaccines in America's 18 years and older.

Let's go straight to CNN's medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

So, Sanjay, what happens next? DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDNT: Well, the -- they

are still giving some final remarks here about whether or not this will be including some sort of caution. There were ten people who voted for this, for lifting the pause. Four people who vote against, and one person who abstained I guess because they had a conflict they were involved with the clinical trial.

So we still want to get a few more details, but I think clearly as you mentioned the pause will be lifted. This is an advisory committee so now, you know, the FDA has to actually make this official which they typically do. The CDC will then get involved. But basically they are saying for people over the age of 18, the Johnson & Johnson vaccine can resume and that's under the emergency use authorization so that's what we know so far.

I'm curious. We're still going to wait to see if there's specific cautions they are giving here or not. It sounds like they are not going to make restrictions based on age because 18 and over it's okay to go ahead and use this vaccine.

TAPPER: Sanjay, I'm told that they are going to update the warning label for the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, that -- that obviously, there's -- there is going to be a change in the way it's administered, at least in that way.

GUPTA: Right, and that's sort of what we expected. We saw that in Europe. I guess you're hearing that they are still discussing this.

But typically the sort of warning, is you know, this can be associated with both low platelets. Platelets are something that helps clot the blood and associated with this problem with clotting. We heard about the clots that can develop in the blood develops in the brain but also a risk clots in other parts of the body as well.

[16:55:00]

They want patients to know about that if they have some history of this problem to certainly let their doctor know ahead of time, but also for clinicians.

I mean, this is an unusual problem, a very rare problem and needs to be treated a very specific way. So, in Europe, for example, they recommended that a specialist known as a hematologist be involved that this problem arises and it can be treated if diagnosed early and properly. So we'll see if that specific language. I don't know if I've heard that language, Jake. I'm still trying to listen in as well but my guess is it will mirror language like that.

It's a rare occurrence. I mean, part of the reason why we waited another week, Jake, is to see if there's more and more cases that sort of declared. You know, people said I had the same problem and there were a few more. But when you add it all up, it's still very rare.

TAPPER: All right, Sanjay, thanks so much.

We'll be right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Of course, as always, you can follow me on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter @JakeTapper. You can tweet the show @TheLeadCNN.

Some news. Starting Monday, THE LEAD expands to two hours, two hours every day. Join me every weekday live from D.C., 4:00 p.m. to 6:00 p.m. Eastern.

I'm Jake Tapper. Our coverage continues right now. Have a fantastic weekend.