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The Lead with Jake Tapper

U.S. To Share 60 Million Vaccine Doses With Other Countries; Biden Admin Shifts Mask Guidance, Touts Benefits For Fully Vaccinated Americans. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired April 27, 2021 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Plus, a small step back to normalcy, if you're fully vaccinated. The CDC now says vaccinated Americans can go without a mask outdoors under some circumstances.

President Biden this afternoon making that case.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The bottom line is clear.

The bottom line is clear. If you're vaccinated, you can do more things more safely, both outdoors, as well as indoors.

[17:00:02]

For -- so, for those who haven't gotten their vaccination yet, especially if you're younger or thinking you don't need it, this is another great reason to go get vaccinated now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: We begin now with Secretary of State Antony Blinken.

Thanks so much for joining us, Mr. Secretary. We appreciate your time.

So, let's just start right there.

The U.S. just announced that it will share up to 60 million COVID vaccine doses with other countries soon. Today, President Biden indicated that India will get some of those. How is the Biden administration going to prioritize which countries get the vaccine?

TONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Jake, we're putting that plan in place as we speak.

And you're right. We will have 60 million vaccines, the AstraZeneca vaccines. We want to make sure that the vaccines that we have in our possession or will soon have in our possession are safe. So, the FDA is reviewing that. So, we're still a couple of weeks away from that.

But we're putting in place a plan right now to do that. You know that, when we came in, we immediately made a very significant contribution to COVAX, the international vaccine facility, $2 billion, and then an additional $2 billion between now and 2022. That is promoting access to vaccines around the world. So, for the vaccines that we have directly on hand or will shortly, we're going to decide whether to do some or all of that through COVAX, or how much of that will be done directly country to country.

All of that is in the works. And we will have a plan in place in the coming days.

TAPPER: So, nine Latin American countries are buying or contracting with China for vaccines. Mexico's top diplomat over the weekend met with Russian officials to get their vaccine.

As the U.S. is working to reestablish a new position the world stage, do you worry that the United States is being outpaced by Russia and China when it comes to what's being called vaccine diplomacy?

BLINKEN: The thing I mostly worry about, Jake, is making sure that as many people around the world as possible can get vaccinated as quickly as possible, because the hard truth is, none of us are safe until a vast majority of people are vaccinated.

As long as that virus is replicating somewhere, it's going to be mutating. And if it's mutating, it could come back to bite us. So, we have a strong national security interest in making sure that the world is vaccinated. And we are going to be playing our part.

TAPPER: Let's talk about China.

You have said that the Chinese government misled the world about coronavirus, which is empirically true. Is the Biden administration, are you working on some sort of repercussions for the Chinese government?

BLINKEN: Jake, I think what we need to focus on is making sure, to the best of our ability, that we put in place a system that makes it, if not impossible, at least a lot less likely that this is going to happen again.

And that means a couple of things. And it does go directly to China's responsibilities, as well as other countries. We have got to have in place a system that has information-sharing in real time when something like this starts up, that has access to international experts in real time, that has transparency in real time, all of the things that were lacking this time around, and all of the things that Beijing fell short of.

So, I think the focus really needs to be making sure that countries around the world live up to their responsibilities going forward and that we have got a system in place to make that happen.

TAPPER: Well, I understand the idea of wanting to make sure this doesn't happen again. But how do you respond to somebody who might say, once again, a major power is escaping or a major leader is escaping consequences following the decision by President Biden to not directly punish Saudi leader MBS for the murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi? I understand some Saudis were sanctioned, but MBS escaped. Now President Xi, who misled the world, and who knows how many people died as a result, will also escape consequences.

BLINKEN: Well, the first thing that we need to do, whether it's looking back at who's responsible or looking forward in terms of how to prevent this from happening again, is to make sure we get to the bottom of what happened.

And we're still not there. The initial report that was done, by the acknowledgement of the director of the World Health Organization himself, fell short of the mark.

So, I think where we need to put our emphasis now is really digging into what exactly happened, who was responsible. We can make determinations on accountability from that, but especially determinations on how to make sure this doesn't happen again.

TAPPER: We already know what happened with the Khashoggi thing, because the Biden administration approved the release of the non- classified version of what happened. And, again, MBS escaped any sort of repercussions directly.

Are -- is part of the Biden doctrine that world leaders who commit atrocities one way or the other escape any sort of consequence?

BLINKEN: Jake, two things.

First, when it comes to Khashoggi I think -- and his heinous murder, I think what you saw was the United States government putting its imprimatur on a report in the light of day that made clear responsibility and made clear the role of the crown prince.

[17:05:00]

That, in and of itself, is significant, because, of course, in a sense, what was in the report itself had already been reported, but the fact that the United States government puts its imprimatur on it, that speaks volumes.

We have put in place the Khashoggi ban to do to the best of our ability to make sure that anyone who is trying in our country to intimidate, to commit acts of violence against or otherwise push back against people speaking out against a government will not have the benefit of being in this country.

And, beyond that, look -- and we have talked about this before -- we have to think about how we can most effectively advance both our interests and our values. And we -- like it or not, we're going to need to continue to work with Saudi Arabia, which remains a partner in many respects.

And one of the things that we're trying to do, as you know, is bring the war to Yemen to an end. The crown prince is likely to be the leader of that country for a long time in the future. We have to work with leaders around the world who are engaged in conduct that we either object to or, in some cases, find reprehensible.

TAPPER: Yes.

BLINKEN: But we do it in order to advance our interests and our values.

TAPPER: Perfect segue to the story Natasha Bertrand broke, which is that sources tell CNN there may be a summit between President Biden and another bad actor, Russian President Vladimir Putin, one as soon as early this summer.

Is it worth dignifying Putin with a summit, after everything he continues to do to the United States?

BLINKEN: It's important to be able to speak clearly and directly to President Putin or to -- for that matter, to the leaders of other countries with whom we have significant differences.

And, Jake, the president's been very clear about this from day one, actually before day one. He's been clear about the proposition that, if Russia continues to engage in aggressive or reckless actions, we are going to respond.

He's also been clear that, look, we would prefer a more stable, predictable relationship. But that's ultimately up to Mr. Putin. If he continues to engage in this kind of conduct, we're going to stand up to it and respond to it.

On the other hand, if he chooses not to escalate, then I think there are areas where we can work together out of our mutual shared interests, for example, strategic stability. We extended New START. There's more to be done in that area.

But all of that, whether it's making clear what we're going to do if Russia continues to act out or what we could do if it chooses to get on to a more predictable and stable course, all of that benefits from being able to speak face to face.

TAPPER: Have the Russians accepted the invitation?

BLINKEN: I don't know if there's a formal acceptance, but I know we're talking about it and talking about the timing of such a meeting.

TAPPER: The U.S. military has started to withdraw from Afghanistan this week.

Democratic Senator Jeanne Shaheen of New Hampshire recently said -- quote -- "It's difficult to see a scenario that doesn't end in civil war or a Taliban takeover" -- unquote.

Is that just Afghanistan's problem and who cares?

BLINKEN: Look, Jake, that is certainly a possible scenario.

Now, no one has an interest in renewed civil war in Afghanistan. Certainly, the Afghan people don't. I don't think, ultimately, either the Afghan government or the Taliban do.

None of Afghanistan's neighbors do, neighbors that -- and other countries in the region that have basically been free-riders for the last 20 years, as we have been engaged there with our NATO allies and partners, who are now going to have to decide, given their interests in a relatively stable Afghanistan, given the influence that they have, whether they're going to try to use that influence in a way that keeps things within the 40-yard lines.

So, a lot of people are having their minds concentrated by the president's decision. And besides that, Jake -- and this is important -- even as we're withdrawing our forces, we are not disengaging from Afghanistan. We're remaining deeply engaged in the diplomacy, in support for the Afghan government and its people, development, economic assistance, humanitarian assistance, support for the security forces.

We have trained over the years, as you know very well, more than 300,000 of them. So, all of that remains. And I think that there are different actors at work now, who I hope will keep moving this in a more positive than negative direction.

But we have to plan, we are planning for every scenario.

TAPPER: There are thousands of Afghans, as you know, who have worked for the United States in Afghanistan...

BLINKEN: Yes.

TAPPER: ... who now feel under direct threat, translators, engineers, local partners, their families.

Now, there's a visa program that would allow about 18,000 of these individuals to come to the United States. But it's an arduous and lengthy process, one that's been slowed down even further because of COVID.

What are you doing to accelerate the process so these allies of the United States who are in fear of their lives, that they're out by September 11?

BLINKEN: Yes, Jake, I'm really, really glad you flagged that, because it is vitally important.

We have had this program in Iraq and also in Afghanistan. And, yes, we want to make sure that people who have put their lives on the line working with American folks in uniform, working with our diplomats, who have put not just themselves in jeopardy, potentially their families as well, can get expedited consideration, if they decide that they want to try to come to the United States.

[17:10:18]

And you're exactly right. We have got about 18,000 people already in the pipeline, 9,000 of whom are relatively far along. Another 9,000 are just at the beginning of the process. And, clearly, more likely to sign up.

So, we are working very hard to make sure that we have got in place the resources to work that program, to work it quickly, expeditiously.

When I was up talking to the House and the Senate about Afghanistan, one of the things that I focused on was the need for us all to come together and make sure that program has the resources it needs.

TAPPER: What happens to the girls and women of Afghanistan when we pull out?

BLINKEN: Jake, when I was in Kabul after the president's decision, I not only met with President Ghani and other leaders. I spent some time talking to some remarkable women, a lawyer, an NGO leader, a teacher, a mayor, a parliamentarian.

And I listened very carefully to their stories, to their concerns, and, yes, to their fears.

But here's the thing. Our support for them will endure. And I can say very clearly and categorically that an Afghanistan that not -- that does not respect their rights, that does not sustain the gains we have made will be a pariah.

TAPPER: I want to ask you about the refugee cap.

In February, you notified Congress that the Biden administration would raise the refugee cap from 15,000, historical low, to 62,500, which was one in line -- which is -- that was in line with Biden's campaign promises. But then, for two months, President Biden stalled on improving the increase.

Now, according to "The Washington Post," President Biden defied your advice, because he was concerned about the crisis at the Mexican border. "The Post" reported that you invoked your stepfather's experience as a refugee.

Tell us about that.

BLINKEN: Jake, a lot has been reported, but, unfortunately, much of that is not accurate, despite my great respect for "The Washington Post."

Here's what happened. The president has a profound commitment to restoring the refugee program, not only restoring it to its historic levels, but going beyond that. And we made that initial commitment and decision.

But then, when we looked at the reality of the damage that had been done across the board to that program in recent years, and the work that was needed to actually put it in a place where it could start effectively to deal with new refugees coming in, as well as what was happening on the border and the demand on resources, including on an office that one part of which works on refugee matters, the other part works on immigration, it became clear that we wanted to -- we were in a position where, potentially, we would be overpromising and underdelivering on what we could do in the time frame that we expected to do it in.

So, the president wanted to make sure that we could come to him and tell him that the resources were actually in place to get the job done. And that took some time, but we are -- we're doing that. And I anticipate that, as I think the White House has indicated, we will be making another announcement on the ceiling in the coming weeks.

TAPPER: One last question for you, sir, because I know your aides are getting a little antsy there behind the scenes.

(LAUGHTER)

TAPPER: John Kerry, the special envoy for climate change, he's facing criticism from Republicans for allegedly, allegedly -- this is not proven -- sharing secret intel -- Israel's secret Israeli military operations with Iran's foreign minister, Mohammad Javad Zarif.

This is from that leaked audiotape that was recorded in March, where Zarif says Kerry told him that Israel attacked Iran's interests in Syria at least 200 times.

Now, Kerry categorically denies the allegation. Have you spoken to Secretary Kerry about this?

BLINKEN: Jake, these things were so secret that they were all reported in the press at the time.

So, it is utter nonsense.

TAPPER: All right.

BLINKEN: And it's really unfortunate that people will continue to try and play politics with this.

TAPPER: Secretary of State Antony Blinken, we appreciate your time.

We hope you will continue to come here and talk to us. We really want to give foreign policy a lot of attention, as we -- as our show transitions to two hours.

BLINKEN: Thanks, Jake. I'd really welcome that.

TAPPER: OK, wonderful. Thank you so much.

Coming up next, a new incentive to get your vaccine shot will outline when you can ditch the mask if you're fully vaccinated. Plus, the uneducated step one private school is taking, why vaccinated teachers of the school may not be able to keep their jobs? Stay with us.

[17:15:04]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: And our Health today, a change in messaging from the Biden ministration shifting from restrictions that spelled out what you should not do because of COVID to now what you can do if you're fully vaccinated.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: The bottom line is clear, if you're vaccinated, you can do more things more safely, both outdoors as well as indoors.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Recovering this from the White House with Kaitlan Collins, as well as with analysis from Dr. Sanjay Gupta. But let's begin with the National impact, and CNN's Nick Watt.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BIDEN: Starting today, if you're fully vaccinated, and you're outdoors, you need -- and not in a big crowd, you no longer need to wear a mask.

NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You can without a mask, now run, walk, bike with your family outside of 10 smaller outdoor gatherings, go to an outdoor restaurant. Why?

BIDEN: Because of the extraordinary progress we've made in fighting this virus and the progress our scientists have made in learning about how it gets transmitted.

[17:20:00]

WATT: In 24 states there are already no mask mandates in effect, but this new guidance gives info, reward, and --

BIDEN: This is another great reason to go get vaccinated, now, now.

WATT: More than a third of American adults are now fully vaccinated, but the pace is slowing, yesterday 2.1 million doses and arms down from a high of 4.6 million April 10, hesitancy is kicking in, in a poll last month, nearly a third of Republicans said they would definitely not get the vaccine.

XAVIER BECERRA, HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: You're vaccinated, guess what, you get to return to a more normal lifestyle. If you're not vaccinated, you're still a danger.

WATT: Meantime, the U.S. will release pending safety review 60 million stockpile doses of AstraZeneca vaccine likely to Canada, Mexico and beyond. Why? Goes beyond the ethical, it's practical.

DR. RICHARD BESSER, FORMER ACTING DIRECTOR, CDC: Transmission anywhere in the world poses a risk to people everywhere in the world. Mutations occur, variants will develop and if a variant were to develop that was not covered by the current vaccines we would all be in deep trouble.

WATT: And the virus is exploding right now in India. President Biden has spoken with India's Prime Minister. The U.S. is sending aid already, and --

BIDEN: I've discussed with him when we'll be able to send actual vaccines to India, which will be my intention to do.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WATT (on camera): Now, Jake, I know you can't wait to see Dave Matthews live again. For now you will have to wear a mask whether indoors or outdoors. But the CDC has made it pretty clear, they are saying as long as people continue to get vaccinated, as long as the cases continue to fall, they will continue to ease their guidance on restrictions. For now their tactic is very clear in fighting vaccine hesitancy, massive carrot, no stick. Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Nick, thanks so much. I want to bring in CNN's Kaitlan Collins at the White House. Kaitlan, a study in the Journal of Infectious Diseases back in November showed a low risk of COVID transmission outside. So why did it take so long for the Biden administration for the CDC to make this announcement?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, the CDC was asked that today, why is it now that they feel comfortable coming out making these kinds of guidelines updating this. They say they now feel like they have the data about what the transmission outside looks like whether you're in a crowded situation or you're passing someone on the sidewalk?

And they said that's now why they're making this announcement, that yes, if you've been fully vaccinated, you don't have to wear a mask when you're outdoors if you are not around a crowd. And a lot of people, Jake, are saying it took a long time to get to this point, given a lot of people have likely already been doing this.

There's a question about people who aren't vaccinated doing this anyway. And so I think what we hear from officials when we talk to them about why often the CDC has been so cautious with its guidance, whether you are vaccinated or not, what that's going to look like is they say that they never want to go out and put out some guidance that they then have to walk back.

So they are very conscious and very aware of doing something -- conscience, I guess, conscious, I guess I should say about doing something like that, taking a step too far and then having to pull it back, put more restrictions on. So I think that's often why you see it feels like the CDC is catching up to what people have already been talking about for weeks.

TAPPER: And Kaitlan, President Biden he has his first address to a joint session of Congress. That's tomorrow night, a source tells CNN he will be wearing a mask when he enters the House Chamber, although not when he's speaking. The move is very intentional and designed to send a message?

COLLINS: Yeah, I think they want to show, of course, this has been President Biden wearing a mask all a lot. His aides often wear a mask. You see Jen Psaki wearing one when she comes up to the press briefing, and so he will be wearing when he actually enters the building tomorrow night. He won't be wearing it while he's speaking. But while he's going back and forth down the aisle, he will be. And I

think in part, it's sending a message but also because the CDC has not changed the guidance for vaccinated people when they're indoors with multiple people from multiple households, which is going to be the case tomorrow night. Yes, they're limiting attendance.

You aren't going to see the guests that you normally would see. But there are going to be 200 lawmakers in the room, some Cabinet Secretary members, Chief Justice from the Supreme Court as well. And so I think that that is part of the message they're trying to send. But they did say President Biden will be following this new CDC guidance about wearing a mask outside.

TAPPER: Because so few members of cabinet are going to be there. They don't have to pick a designated survivor, as they say so the first time since the Kennedy years I think for that. Kaitlan Collins, thanks so much.

I want to bring in Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN's Chief Medical Correspondent. Sanjay, instead of a long list of restrictions, the CDC is now saying here's what's safe, and here's what's not safe outdoors if you're vaccinated or if you're not vaccinated. Now, tell us for the vaccinated, it's safe to run, to walk, to ride a bike outdoors, you can attend a small outdoor gathering with others. Who are vaccinated it's also OK to eat outside.

[17:25:03]

Now if you're masked, you can attend a crowded outdoor event, but if you're not vaccinated it becomes less safe to dine outside and attend a crowded event. I have to say like, it's still kind of confusing a little bit?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, I think they're trying to put a lot of particulars around a basic fact, which is that if you are vaccinated, you can be outside without a mask on. I think that that's basically the bottom line. And, you know, we've been saying that, as you just discussed with Kaitlan and Nick.

We've been saying that for some time. I think the science has been out there for some time. But that's really what it comes down to. I think that I was, if I was surprised by anything, it was that they -- it was just so universal in terms of how the CDC sort of talked about this today, because there are areas of the country obviously, where you have a lot more viral transmission than other areas.

But the bottom line they're saying is that we look at the data, very little transmission, if any really is occurring outside and indoors is just far worse than then outdoor. So that's really it, Jake.

TAPPER: And as I just discussed with Kaitlan, the study in the Journal of Infectious Diseases back in November, found less than 10% of COVID infection seemed to be happening outdoors, the odds of transmission was more than 18 times more likely inside a building than outdoors. If CDC guidance is based on science, and the science was pretty clear five months ago, why are we just getting the official memo now? GUPTA: Well, it's a good question. And I've talked about this with a few members of the administration today. I think there's three things, one is that I think it's pretty clear that they're being cautious. I mean, you know, you talked about it, even with the under promising over delivering with regard to vaccine doses, they are just taking a very, very deliberately cautious approach, this as part of that.

Second of all, the data that you showed, you know, with the nearly 19 times more likely indoor transmission, I looked at those studies, you know, it was actually a wide range that they had, at that point anywhere from six to 58 times more likely to have the virus spread indoors.

They had a big confidence interval, they call it. Now you got more data, so they can pinpoint that down and say, yeah, it really is exponentially more likely for the virus to transmit, indoors versus outdoors.

And I think finally, you know, I think we're just in a better place now. I think the idea of trying to loosen things up at a time when the numbers weren't, were staying stubbornly high or even going in the wrong direction, just didn't feel like the right time to say, hey, let now it's time to back off a bit. So -- but the science has been clear. So, you know, I think the questions are very fair one, and I asked the same one.

TAPPER: Responding to a question today from our own. Kaitlan Collins, the CDC Director, Dr. Walensky recommended that mask mandates changed, recommended that no longer should people be -- should they require states or in cities require people who are fully vaccinated to wear a mask outdoors. How quickly do you see any reason why cities and states should adopt what Dr. Walensky is saying?

GUPTA: I think they probably will. I mean, you know, given that the science has been there, given that this is a cautious, if anything approach, and then I think Kaitlan made a really good point that this is also CDC, that's, you know, if they've said this, if they loosen guidelines, it's very unlikely that they're going to go back and say, hey, we're going to put those guidelines back in effect, you know, that's a going in the wrong direction, backwards is something they don't want to do obviously.

Having said that, look, I mean, you know, things can still change. And I don't mean to, you know, pour cold water on this, but things can still change. I remember, you know, talking to colleagues in India, you know, last month they were talking about the end game at that point, a month ago in India, and you now know what's happening over there. So I think we still have to be careful here, which is part of the caution that the CDC is exercising, but I think the state's got the message today, you don't need a mask outdoors.

TAPPER: All right, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thank you so much, I appreciate it.

A rift in the Republican Party, what Republican leader Kevin McCarthy said when asked about the future of a member of the leadership team, Congresswoman Liz Cheney, that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:30:00]

TAPPER: We're back with our "Politics Lead", and the chasm in the Republican Party seemingly becoming even larger as the House Republicans meet behind closed doors for their annual policy retreat to hash out a path forward and what role Trumpism will play.

Even Republican leadership can't put on a united front with Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy refusing today to say whether Conference Chair Liz Cheney is a good fit for the GOP leadership team.

discuss this with CNN's Michael Warren and Politico's Melanie Zanona, both in Florida near the Republican retreat. Michael, let me start with you, I want to play what we just heard from McCarthy in exchange with Jake Sherman from Punchbowl News. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE SHERMAN, JOURNALIST, PUNCHBOWL NEWS: Is Cheney still a good fit for your leadership team, do you believe?

KEVIN MCCARTHY, HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: That's a question for the conference.

SHERMAN: But what do you believe -

MCCARTHY: Yes?

SHERMAN: - what do you - hold on, what do you believe?

MCCARTHY: I think from a perspective if you're sitting here at a retreat, it's focused on policy and focused on the future of making America in the next century, and you're talking about something else, you're not being productive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: I mean, knives out, Kevin McCarthy not even able to say anything nice about Liz Cheney. What do you make of that?

MICHAEL WARREN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, what you really have here, Jake, is sort of a - the stark disagreement over the most pressing question for the Republican Party and its future, what to do about Donald Trump? And what it boils down to is that Liz Cheney wants the party to move beyond Trump, and Kevin McCarthy wants the party to keep Trump in the fold.

[17:35:00]

Now they aren't really in disagreement, of course with all the other Republicans, on the end goal. They want to win back the majority in 2022, and they don't even really want to talk. If you talk to members, strategists, they don't even want to talk about Donald Trump necessarily.

But what really throws a wrench in all of that is when reporters like Melanie or me or others ask Liz Cheney about what she thinks about Donald Trump. She doesn't back down from her statement and her belief that the party needs to move on, and that is really what irks McCarthy and sort of spreads this sense of disunity within the conference that he's trying to say is unified.

TAPPER: But there's also this difference in the fact that Liz Cheney is telling the truth and Kevin McCarthy is lying when it comes to the big election lie that Trump put out that almost, you know, that helped prompt the insurrection on January 6th. I mean, it's not a he said, she said, on the truth. She's telling the truth and he's lying.

And Melanie, you asked McCarthy if it's hard for Republican leadership to be united when Cheney is vocally criticizing President Trump. Mccarthy told you "There's a responsibility, if you're going to be in leadership, leaders eat last. And when leaders try to go out, and not work as one team, it creates difficulties." Melanie, what's the path forward here? Is there room for both McCarthy and Cheney to be in House GOP leadership?

MELANIE ZANONA, POLITICO REPORTER: No. I mean, in the short term, they're still going to be both in leadership. She just had a vote in the conference, and they voted to keep her, but this really feels untenable to me. I don't think they both can last in leadership.

This is the lowest their relationship has been, and it's been low in the past, but, you know, ironically after this whole meeting and this whole conference designed around unity and getting on the same page, I would argue McCarthy and Cheney are farther apart than they've ever been.

And just a little bit more background why we're seeing McCarthy really go after Cheney in such a public way like we haven't before is because he got a lot of flak from the Trump wing of the party after he went to bat for Cheney and he tried to help save her, and he's been paying the price ever since.

And so he felt sort of burned every time that she would, you know, double down on her criticism of Trump at these public press conferences, and the last time they had this really awkward clash at a press conference on February 25th was the last time they actually appeared at a press conference together. So, you know, just really, really low relationship between the two of them.

TAPPER: So the Trump wing, like Matt Gaetz and Andy Biggs and Lauren Boebert and Marjorie Taylor-Greene?

ZANONA: Exactly, and with - you know, I think it's important also to keep in mind, McCarthy wants to be speaker here, and he views those people as instrumental to getting the speaker's gavel, and he doesn't want to alienate them.

And so he's trying to get back in those people's good graces, as well as Donald Trump who he's had a little bit of a hot and cold relationship with as well this year, And so I think that is really what's driving a lot of what we saw today and yesterday at the conference.

TAPPER: And Michael, Republicans, are they trying to plot a path forward to regain power in the 2022 mid-terms? How much of a litmus test will it - loyalty to Trump be?

WARREN: Well, I think it's a real question still of how much Trump and his political operation is actually going to play. Trump actually just released a statement through his super PAC going after Liz Cheney saying she's so low in the polls in Wyoming. If he focuses entirely on her and her race in Wyoming, there may not be any other attention to these other races, and particularly these primary races.

But you talk to members, you talk to strategists who are focusing on House races, and that's the number one concern. They're concerned because Donald Trump raises a lot of money and has, of course, a lot of popularity within the party.

Will he run a primary challenger against me, and if not just the impeachment ten, anybody who's out of line, say, on that vote to certify the 2020 election, they're all looking over their shoulders, they're all concerned, even leadership Kevin McCarthy, they're all concerned about that.

That's why McCarthy wants to keep Trump in the fold to avoid those kind of clashes in the primary, but a lot of Republicans also are concerned that if they run pro-Trump candidates in swing and independent districts, they're not going have enough to win the majority in 2022.

TAPPER: Man, Trump's brittle spirit still at play. And Melanie, you talk about the pro-Trump wing of the House Republican Party, there's this new bizarre and false accusation that a bunch of these folks put out.

They claimed it was a lie, based on a "New York Post" story that's since been retracted, that officials were handing out copies of Vice President Harris' book, and that she was getting rich off of giving these books to migrants in border facilities.

It's not any - it's not in the neighborhood of true. A shelter spokesperson told "The Washington Post" that a single copy of the book was donated during a community donation event, and yet this is the wing, the Boebert, Marjorie Taylor-Greene wing of the party, Jim Jordan, that McCarthy is -- is coddling.

ZANONA: Yes. I mean, this is the biggest problem facing the GOP right now is this fringe element of the party. They used to be fringe.

[17:40:00]

It's becoming increasingly mainstream with the rise of Lauren Boebert and Marjorie Taylor-Greene, and McCarthy is not doing a whole lot to stop them. In fact, he also saved Marjorie Taylor-Greene, defended her, tried to prevent her from getting kicked off her committees. He's taken a much softer touch, a much softer approach towards dealing

with these folks, and he's really struggling to rein them in. And again, we're talking about unity. That's what they see as their path to winning back the majority, but I think this is going to be a huge, huge problem for Republicans.

TAPPER: All right, Melanie Zanona, Michael Warren, thanks to both of you. Appreciate your reporting.

Today, a new autopsy of Andrew Brown Jr., the man shot and killed by deputies in North Carolina last week - last week, what the autopsy says about how he died. That's next.

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TAPPER: Internationally, the FBI just announced that they are opening a civil rights investigation into the fatal shooting of Andrew Brown Jr. by North Carolina deputies last week. CNN's Jason Carroll is in Elizabeth City in North Carolina. Jason, tell us more about the FBI probe?

[17:45:00]

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. The FBI has opened this civil rights investigation, and this means that agents will be working closely with the U.S. attorney's office here on the ground. They will also be working with the Department of Justice.

And, Jake, this is certainly encouraging news to the Brown family. They feel as though there has not been nearly enough transparency here on the ground. That was just one of the developments today. Also another development, the Brown family released the results of an independent autopsy that was conducted.

They say the results of the autopsy shows that Brown was shot five times, the first four shots they say hit him in his right hand, in his right arm. Again, they say his hands were on the steering wheel. They say the fifth shot was the fatal shot.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WAYNE KENDALL, BROWN FAMILY ATTORNEY: Was a fatal wound to the back of Mr. Brown's head as he was leaving the site trying to evade being shot at by these particular law enforcement officers who we believe did nothing but a straight out execution.

KHALIL FEREBEE, SON OF ANDREW BROWN JR.: It's obvious he was trying to get away. It's obvious, and they going to shoot him in the back of the head. Man, that's (EXPLETIVE DELETED) not right, that's not right at all, man.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARROLL: And in addition to that, Jake, as you know, the family has been pushing for the county sheriff's office to release more body cam footage. They were only, they say, allowed to look at 20 seconds of footage, body cam footage. That was yesterday.

According to North Carolina law, that requires a court order for that body cam footage to be released to the public. The sheriff's department says that they will abide by a court order, a judge supposed to start hearing on that issue. That's going to be starting tomorrow.

TAPPER: All right. Jason Carroll in North Carolina, thanks so much. Coming up neck, textbook misinformation, a private school has a stunning new policy. Get your vaccine and you could lose your job. That's next.

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TAPPER: A private school in Miami, Florida is defying medical guidelines, and frankly, commonsense by turning misinformation about the coronavirus vaccines into official school policy as CNN's Leyla Santiago reports for us. The school will not allow vaccinated teachers anywhere students - you heard me right, vaccinated teachers.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LEILA CENTNER, CEO & CO-FOUNDER, CENTNER ACADEMY: Let's get more information, let's learn more about this.

LEYLA SANTIAGO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The CEO and Co-Founder of Centner Academy, a private school in Miami is standing by her decision to try to stop faculty and staff from getting potentially lifesaving COVID vaccinations. She doesn't want students near anyone vaccinated against the coronavirus, but her decision is based partly on unfounded claims about the shots.

UNKNOWN: You want more information?

CENTNER: Yes, that's all I want. I want more information.

UNKNOWN: Have you looked at the FDA? Have you looked at the CDC? Have you looked at the World Health Organization? Because they do say that this is effective.

CENTNER: It's an experiment right now.

SANTIAGO: The Academy has some 300 students, 70 staff members. And the school's website promotes medical freedom from mandated vaccines.

AMY PISANI, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, VACCINE YOUR FAMILY: When a school like this, and in a community that seems to be very close knit - that could easily turn into an outbreak in a heartbeat - just, it could happen overnight and then all of these children would be at risk, and everyone in the local community would also be at risk.

SANTIAGO: In a letter to faculty and staff, Centner tells teachers wanting vaccination to, "please wait until the school year ends, and you will not be able to return to school until clinical trials are complete if a position is still available at that time."

Clinical trials in adults have been completed for all three vaccines to satisfy the FDA's Emergency Use Authorization requirements.

CENTNER: No one has been threatened to be fired -

SANTIAGO: During our interview, and in this letter Centner cited a series of false claims behind her decision. Including, "non-vaccinated people being negatively impacted by interacting with people who have been vaccinated."

But that's not true, there is no scientific evidence that people recently vaccinated could negatively impact others. And now the White House has responded to the school's decision too.

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Our objective is continuing to convey that it's important to abide by public health guidelines, that they're in place for a reason, that they're not done through a political prism, they are done by medical experts, by health experts intended to keep children safe, keep parents safe, keep teachers safe, keep communities safe which is why we recommend people abide by them.

SANTIAGO: And Jake, the school invited us into the building today as part of the interview, and while we didn't see any of the students, we did see probably about 10 adults inside. And of those staff and faculty, I did take note that I didn't see one of them wearing a mask.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: Science classes at that school must be something else. Leyla Santiago, thanks so much. Coming up, a first for a magazine that's been around for nearly 100 years.

(COMMERCIAL)

[17:55:00]

TAPPER: Finally from us today, we want to take the time to remember just one of the more than 573,000 American lives lost to coronavirus. Today we remember Catherine Ann Brundidge, she was the proud owner of the Phenix City, Alabama restaurant Lily B. Rose. She dedicated her soul food eatery to her three siblings, the popular restaurant nicknamed Lily B's often sells out by the end of the lunch rush.

Customers loved her mac and cheese, and her perfectly fried chicken. Brundidge got coronavirus and she died last week, she was only 61 years old. May her memory be a blessing to her four kids, her husband, and anyone who knew her.

Follow me on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter @JakeTapper. You can tweet the show @TheLeadCNN. Our coverage continues now with Wolf Blitzer, he's right next door in "THE SITUATION ROOM."

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