Return to Transcripts main page

The Lead with Jake Tapper

Sources: It's Over For Cheney In Leadership, House GOP Vote Expected As Early As May 12; Rep. Stefanik Actively Moving Toward Bid For Cheney's Job; Biden's New Goal: 70 Percent Of Adults With At Least One Shot By July 4; FDA Expected To Authorize Pfizer Vaccine For Ages 12-15; Poll: Nearly Half Of Republicans Don't Plan To Get Vaccinated; India Surpasses 20 Million COVID Cases As Hospitals Still Are Desperate For PPE, Oxygen, Staff, Beds; Derek Chauvin's Defense Team Files Motion For A New Trial. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired May 04, 2021 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Republican Party is going to perpetuate lies about the 2020 election, but one congresswoman who is willing to push those lies, Congresswoman Elise Stefanik of New York, seems to be gearing up to golly (ph) Liz Cheney.

CNN's Manu Raju has new reporting about what McCarthy said on a hot mic. Manu, what did McCarthy have to say?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, he actually went further than he did in a televised interview earlier this morning on "Fox and Friends" telling a host off air of a caught on mic that I think she's got real problems referring to Liz Cheney. He went on to say, "I've had it with her. I've lost confidence." Those are his exact words.

Kevin McCarthy was also asked in the hot mic moment about a possible vote to oust Liz Cheney. He said, well, someone just has to bring a motion, but I assume that will happen.

And Jake, and talking to multiple Republican sources, the expectation is that that vote could happen on May 12.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

RAJU (voice-over): Congresswoman Liz Cheney may soon be out of her post as the number three House Republican, but she's not going down without a fight. Sources tell CNN she has no plans to step aside. As she's grown isolated within the House GOP conference. I mean, her growing with former President Donald Trump.

A senior House Republican told CNN, "Liz is gone. Just a question of how and when."

And her fate now largely in the hands of House GOP leader Kevin McCarthy, who on Tuesday offered a tough critique of her performance as conference chair. And he claimed the push to oust her has nothing to do with the fact that Cheney was one of just 10 House Republicans who voted to impeach Trump on the charge of inciting the January 6 Capitol attack.

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY, (R-CA) MINORITY LEADER: I have heard from members concerned about her ability to carry out the job as conference chair, to carry out the message. We all need to be working as one if we're able to win the majority.

I haven't heard members concerned about her vote on impeachment. It's more concerned about the job ability to do and what's our best step forward that we could all work together instead of attacking one another.

RAJU: Cheney has survived one attempt in her ouster in February. But this time, GOP sources say it is different because a war of words with Trump have become a distraction, and her relationship with McCarthy and other Republicans remains extremely tense.

McCarthy initially criticized Trump for his role in the January 6 riot, but has since flipped and aligned himself with the former president, calculating that he needs Trump's help to win back the House next year. And as he told Georgia today, McCarthy dodged when asked if he'd hold a quick vote to oust Cheney.

MCCARTHY: You know, the conference sides of that we're here talking about small business.

RAJU: Cheney has now backed out, appearing behind closed doors with former House Speaker Paul Ryan on Monday. She said, "We can't whitewash what happened on January 6 or perpetuate Trump's big lie. It is a threat to democracy. What he did on January 6 is a line that cannot be crossed.

As their support has cratered internally, lawmakers are jockeying to replace her with Congresswoman Elise Stefanik, staunch Trump ally, already moving towards a potential run and making calls about the job according to sources.

Many House Republicans now suggests it's time for Cheney to go.

REP. BARRY LOUDERMILK, (R) GEORGIA: There is a feeling among members of Congress that yes, you can express your personal feelings. But when you're in a member -- you're a member of leadership, you kind of speak for everybody else in the conference.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

RAJU: And things are moving pretty quickly behind the scenes in order to replace Liz Cheney. Congressman Guy Reschenthaler is actively whipping support on behalf of Elise Stefanik who is being pushed in various quarters of the House Republican conference.

She has been a longtime Trump ally, staunch supporter that is viewed internally as a likely replacement for Liz Cheney. And this all, Jake, could come to head on May 12. Assuming that McCarthy goes along with it, a vote to oust Liz Cheney followed by an election to replace her. Jake. TAPPER: Yes, Elise Stefanik certainly willing -- certainly has proven herself willing to lie and spread the lies about the election to the American people.

Manu Raju, thanks so much.

Let's talk about this. The CNN political commentators, Ashley Allison, and Margaret Hoover.

Margaret, let me start with you. Sources are telling CNN that the vote to oust Cheney could come as soon as next week, May 12, that's a week from tomorrow. And that they're saying it's pretty much over for her. What's your reaction?

MARGARET HOOVER, FORMER WHITE HOUSE STAFF FOR GEORGE W. BUSH: Liz Cheney is doing absolutely every she can -- everything she can to stay consistent and principled with absolutely no political upside for her, right? She is telling the truth. She is standing by the rule of law.

And they are saying that this is about unity in the party? Let's be very clear, Kevin McCarthy wants unity in his conference behind a lie. And Liz Cheney is unwilling to submit herself to the lies of Donald Trump and the big lie that they continue to spread and continue to promulgate throughout the Republican Party. This is may very well be Liz Cheney's last stand in the House GOP leadership.

[17:05:06]

And you just can't understate the degree of sexism here, Jake, where you have the number one ranking woman, highest ranking woman, the House GOP conference, and they want her to be seen and not heard. They are absolutely happy to have her there as long as she quiets and shuts her mouth. But Liz Cheney, God bless her, is unwilling to do it. And you know what, we all owe her a debt of gratitude, especially individuals who want a strong center right party in this country.

TAPPER: Ashley, multiple sources have told CNN the Congresswoman Elise Stefanik of New York is the front runner for Cheney's job. She's not only a defender of President Trump, she promoted the big lie, she voted against accepting the Electoral College votes for Joe Biden in Pennsylvania, after the insurrection on the basis of that lie. What do you think this says about the Republican Party?

ASHLEY ALLISON, FORMER NATIONAL COALITIONS DIRECTOR FOR BIDEN-HARRIS 2020: Look, the Republican Party is infamous for being a message powerhouse. And Liz Cheney is just like we heard on that hot mic is not following the message that Trump who is leading the Republican Party is pushing. So, it's no surprise that someone who is pushing the big lie, didn't want to certify the election is becoming a front runner.

But I will say, Liz Cheney is a master politician and comes from a political powerhouse as a family. So, I don't -- I'm not going to totally cut her out. I think that she has an uphill battle ahead of her, but I'm sure she's having additional behind the scenes conversations to try and secure her leadership in the party. But she's off message. And I just don't know if the Republican Party wants to change their message from getting against the big line.

TAPPER: Margaret, the counter argument, you suggested that there's sexism afoot here. The counter argument is going to be if they replace Cheney with Elise Stefanik, how can you say that? We gave the, you know, we gave the job to a different woman, it'll be at one who is willing to lie to the American people about the election, and not one who is trying to stand up for the truth.

HOOVER: And you better believe Elise Stefanik, Representative Stefanik is willing to step into that in order to offer cover to her -- to her party. But what we know is that there have been an enormous number of sexist comments about Liz Cheney made. And we know that if she would just be quiet and get in line, they would tolerate her there.

This is, you know, in the Republican Party, Jake, there are far fewer women represented, there are 31 Republican members of the House of Representatives who are women, they almost doubled their numbers last time. And that was because they had a diverse group of voices, members like Ashley Hinson and Young Kim from diverse parts of the country who are able to garner independent and suburban Republican votes in order to win.

If Kevin McCarthy thinks that this is going to unify the party and turn the Republican Party suddenly into a governing majority broadly, he better think again, because he is going to have a hard time when they are within four votes of having a majority in the 2022 election. This is not going to help them get there. This is going to make it worse.

TAPPER: Ashley, as you know, 70 percent, something like that, of the Republican voters believe the lie that Trump has been spewing now for months that the election was stolen from him. In a CNN poll released last week, only 23 percent of Republican voters believe Biden had legitimately won. I mean, that's the number. How do you explain this?

I mean, what do you make of this whole Trump has, not just over his party, but over the reality that its members and just Republican voters see?

ALLISON: It's hard to explain the disconnect of -- that the Republican Party is really experiencing with the truth and that Joe Biden actually won this election. But look, if 70 percent of Republican voters actually think the big lie is true and are backing Trump that is the Republican Party.

I'm not sure we've been talking about, you know, a lot of talks have been going on about there being a civil war. I think this is politics. But I also think this does have something to do with policy. So for example, people want -- believe the big lie because they ultimately want Donald Trump to be president and they want Donald Trump to be president because they believe policies like family separation, and issues around abortion and issues around LGBTQ issues are not the direction that the Democrats want to take.

That's not what the Republican Party wants to do. And 70 percent are saying, we're not going to accept the results of the election, we want Donald Trump to be our leader. And that is the present day Republican Party.

TAPPER: Margaret, one could argue that Republican Senator Josh Hawley of Missouri has blood on his hands. Since if it were not for his challenge of the results of the 2020 presidential election from the Senate, the insurrection may well not have happened. Now Hawley to defend himself today. Take a listen.

[17:10:12]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOSH HAWLEY, (R) MISSOURI: I did what I said I was going to do on January the sixth, which is to voice my constituents concerns about election integrity. And this is something by the way, the process that I used to do that the Democrats have used in three of the last presidential elections.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Of course, it's quite different, Margaret, from what Democrats did in previous electoral protests. Right off the top of my head no one thought it was actually going to overturn the election when Democrats did it. And beyond that, of course, no one actually was killed when the Democrats did it.

HOOVER: Yes, there's that Jake. And I actually -- Josh Hawley hasn't changed his tune at all, which is still remarkable. I mean, you know, he didn't change his tune that day when there were several Republican senators who plan to vote along with Hawley, and then after seeing the total destruction and devastation on the Capitol, the fact that they had to hide in a hideout, in a safe room under the Capitol, they came to their senses and voted differently.

Josh Hawley, of course, didn't demonstrate that degree of reflection, or and continues to not take responsibility for his actions and their repercussions on our democracy. It's no surprise he's sticking to his tune, but we'll see what his constituents actually think.

He's lost a number of them already, as well as some of his major donors and major political rabbis. So, that will be put to a test with his constituents when his time comes to defend his actions.

TAPPER: Margaret Hoover, Ashley Allison, thanks to both you. Appreciate it.

Coming up next, President Biden's ambitious goal to get more adults vaccinated. How the Biden administration plans to try to get creative to win over all the skeptical Americans?

Plus, while the U.S. tries to combat vaccine hesitancy, India is desperate for more help. We're going to go live to New Delhi ahead. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:15:43] TAPPER: Ambitious new goals for vaccinating Americans top our healthily today. This afternoon President Biden said that he's hoping the United States government can administer at least one COVID vaccine dose to 70 percent of adults by the Fourth of July. That's just in two months. President is pushing for more walk-in appointment sites and mobile clinics to help reach that goal.

We're also learning more about just how soon children could get vaccinated as CNN's Erica Hill reports.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I want American parents to know that if that announcement comes, we are ready to move immediately ready to vaccinate those adolescents as soon as the FDA grants it's OK.

ERICA HILL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): That authorization for Pfizer's vaccine for 12 to 15-year-olds could come early next week.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It certainly gets us closer to herd immunity.

HILL: The company says, its data show 100 percent efficacy in that age group. As for younger kids, Pfizer is targeting September to apply for emergency use authorization for two to 11-year-olds.

DR. LYNN PAXTON, HEALTH DIRECTOR, FULTON COUNTY GEORGIA: Maybe this is our opportunity to enlist those kids to bug their parents who might not have gotten vaccinated to get vaccinated. Hey, let's work with smoking --

HILL: Access is also key. The President touting a new website and text option to find nearby doses along with plans to shift supply to rural areas.

BIDEN: Our goal by July 4th is to have 70 percent of adult Americans, at least one shot, and 116 million Americans fully vaccinated.

HILL: As of today, 56 percent of adults have at least one shot. But the average daily pace of vaccinations is slowing down nearly 27 percent in the last two weeks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We know these vaccines are incredibly safe. We got to get on our toes here.

HILL: Biden encouraging states to offer incentives to boost that number.

BIDEN: Ticket giveaways in stadium vaccination programs, discounts on merchandise and other creative ways to make it easier and more fun to get vaccinated.

HILL: Several states and cities already on board. In Seattle, shots will be available at the Mariners home game starting tonight. And in New Jersey, free beer. GOV. PHIL MURPHY, (D) NEW JERSEY: Any New Jerseyan who gets their first vaccine dose in the month of May and takes their vaccination card to one of the following participating breweries as proof of vaccination will receive a free beer.

HILL: Meantime, reopening plans are in full swing.

MAYOR LORI LIGHTFOOT, (D) CHICAGO: Our goal, ladies and gentlemen is to be fully open by July 4.

HILL: Chicago's massive Auto Show is set to return in mid-July, Pennsylvania, May 31 to drop COVID gathering restrictions. While in Oklahoma, it's returned to normal life today.

GOV. KEVIN STITT, (R) OKLAHOMA: Back in February, I cast the vision that we would get our summer back. Oklahoma, now is the time

(END VIDEO TAPE)

HILL: In terms of getting summer back or just a full life, as the President said earlier today, he said the key is really getting that vaccine. And Jake, he was addressing directly those who are hesitant who may not be confident saying this is about the science, it's not about politics. And he directly addressed those in their 20s and 30s who may not think they need the vaccine, reminding them that they could infect someone else.

And he said, look, before we were concerned about having enough supply, the President saying we now have enough supply, Jake, but the key is to get those shots of course in arms.

TAPPER: All right, Erica Hill, thanks so much.

Joining us now to discuss CNN Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

Sanjay, we heard President Biden's set this new goal today, 70 percent of adults with at least one shot by the Fourth of July. Right now, that number is just over 56 percent. Of course, vaccine hesitancy is a major issue preventing this from happening. What do you think? Is his goal realistic?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: It's realistic, it's going to be a bit of a challenge. When we when we sort of calculate this, Jake, you just heard from Erica that there was a drop of about 20 percent, 25 percent over the last several weeks in terms of the pace of vaccinations.

If you get the same pace as it is right now you'd get there sort of by mid-June, we would get there by mid-June. If you drop about 9 percent roughly per week over the next several weeks, they can get there sort of by, you know mid-July timeframe. So, it's -- the pace has got to stay relatively same, a little bit of dropping.

[17:20:06] We'll see, Jake, how likely people are to go out and still get at least a first shot over the next several weeks. Possible, but it's a little bit of a challenge.

TAPPER: So many of the people who are hesitant are Trump supporters. It's something like 44 percent of Republicans. Imagine -- you don't have to comment on this because I know you're not comfortable. But imagine if President Trump instead of golfing and trying to destroy Liz Cheney's career, devoted his energy and attention towards getting his supporters vaccinated, that would be something else.

But let's move on to the next question. The FDA could authorize Pfizer's COVID vaccine for kids aged 12 to 15. They could do that any day. How soon would you expect a 12 to 15-year-old to actually be able to get vaccinated after that is authorized?

GUPTA: Very soon afterward. And I got three kids, by the way in that age range. And so they're already asking you about this. After the after this -- FDA authorizes this or actually just amends the existing authorization for 12 to 15-year-olds, the CDC Advisory Committee meets, that typically happens, you know, the next day. And after that, you know, there's vaccine out there. So, I think within a day or two after we hear this announcement, which is imminent, I think kids will be able to get the shots.

TAPPER: Yes, Dr. (INAUDIBLE) says it's the same dose as that adults get that you got, that I got. So, you just go to the doctor and get it.

Pfizer hopes to get that same authorization for kids aged two to 11 in September. When we're talking about vaccinating children as young as two years old, does the FDA take any additional steps to ensure that it's safe for kids so young?

GUPTA: Yes. In that case, the big question is really going to be figuring out the right dose. I mean, you know, with 12 to 15-year- olds, as you just pointed out, the dose is the same, they sort of anticipated that, they didn't think there'd be a big difference. With two to 11-year-olds, it's going to be really figuring out the right dose and figuring out the safety of various doses. So they may do these dose escalation trials.

There's plenty of evidence that this vaccine induces antibodies, and those antibodies are protective. But I think for the two to 11 year olds, they're going to -- there's going to be a couple of extra steps, which is why it's probably going to take a little longer, maybe by the end of the year, or at least fall we would have that.

TAPPER: What does opening the vaccine to children, as young as two, mean for all of us when it comes to being able to achieve herd immunity?

GUPTA: Well, you know, I mean, just if you take the 12 to 15-year-olds alone, we can see what percentage of the population falls into these different age groups. And we know if you add that 12 to 15-year-olds, you then have 85 percent of the country potentially eligible. If you're going down to you know, five to 11, you add another 9 percent. You can -- you can do the math. So, it makes a difference in terms of eligibility.

There's two things I think are really worth pointing out. First of all, herd immunity, again, this is a term everyone sort of uses is based on, you know, what percentage of the country is immunize, has immunity, which is from the vaccine as well as natural infection, we get to count those people as well. But also it's based on how contagious the viruses at any given time.

So Jake, in the summertime, essentially, in effect, that the virus becomes less contagious, people are more outside, the virus doesn't like the warmer weather, so it becomes less contagious. So we could more easily fall into herd immunity over the summer, we don't need to have as many people as large percentage immunized.

But the issue is when we get into the colder months again, and essentially the virus becomes more contagious. We, you know, need that 75 percent or so of the country to have immunity. So, we think of herd immunity as a destination, but it may be a stop along the destination unless we can get enough people immunized over the next several months.

We could have a resurgence in the fall otherwise.

TAPPER: And Sanjay, quickly if you could, once your kids are fully vaccinated, does that mean they're going to be able to play outdoors with their friends, participated in team sports without masks? Will they be able to hang out with other immunized friends inside?

GUPTA: Yes, absolutely. That's why they are bugging me about this for those -- for those very reasons, all those things. And also Jake, just even over the summer, you know, families like we're in this position where my wife and I are vaccinated, the kids are not, what can we really do --

TAPPER: Right.

GUPTA: -- sort of a little nebulous? They get vaccinated, I think it's going to make those decisions a lot easier.

TAPPER: Hopefully soon, hopefully soon. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

Coming up next, more on this battle to fight vaccine hesitancy. I'm going to talk to a pollster who is trying to figure out how to get through to the Republicans who don't want a COVID vaccine. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:29:06]

TAPPER: International aid. We've heard it time and time again the path to normalcy in the U.S. is getting enough Americans vaccinated and achieving herd immunity. We just talked about it with Sanjay. Well, according to a CNN poll, nearly half of all Republicans, 44 percent say they do not plan to get vaccinated, a percentage of the population far too high in order for the whole population to return immunity.

Now, pollster and Republican consultant Frank Luntz has spent his career figuring out how to appeal to Republican voters and through Republican focus groups. He's been trying to figure out why that outstanding 44 percent do not want the vaccine. And for many of them, the fear of the shot outweighed the fear of the virus.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How many of you would agree with that statement that your fear of the vaccine is greater than your fear of getting the illness? Raise your hands. That is almost, almost everybody.

[17:30:03]

TAPPER: And not only did these focus group participants say they did not trust the vaccine, they didn't trust information about the virus altogether.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's just a huge cloud of question when it comes to that virus for me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A very real illness that's been manipulated by the government.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Weapon used in many different ways.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Real virus, but it's been overplayed or used for political gain.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would say a weaponized engineer disease, which has been cynically and irresponsibly used for the politicization of medicine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Frank Luntz joins me now. And Frank, we don't have to go into why so many people feel this way. That's a subject for a different conversation. But we want these people to get vaccinated. So what's the biggest barrier stopping these hesitant Republicans from getting their shots?

FRANK LUNTZ, REPUBLICAN POLLSTER: Well the key is not to demonize them and to recognize and respect that hesitation that concern. We know that the most important person in all of this is their own doctor, as one of the reasons why I've been reaching out to medical groups across the country, and being active with the doctors caucus within the Republicans led by Brad Wenstrup of Ohio. Because their own doctor, they'll trust. Their own doctor knows them, understands them, and understands their concerns.

And when we found out, thanks to Tom Frieden at the CDC, that 90 percent of all doctors have been vaccinated. That's a critical number. That's a fact that the public responds to. So the key, Jake, in all of this is to take out the politics. Don't demonize them, don't attack them, to demonstrate that you hear them and to give them that their doctors are being vaccinated, that this is so much more effective and safe than the flu shot, which so many of them get. And third is that they're not only protecting themselves, they're also protecting the ones they love.

When you make it personal to them, rather than political, rather than politicians telling them to get vaccinated. If it comes from a family member or their own doctor, then it's going to have influence.

TAPPER: So I first heard about this focus group in a great episode of one of my favorite radio shows, "This American Life". And you spoke to these Republicans a few weeks ago, you had Republican politicians, Brad Wenstrup was one, Chris Christie was another, you had medical experts like Tom Frieden, join this zoom, call make their pitch. What worked? What made them say, the Republican voters, what made them say, OK, maybe I should get a shot?

LUNTZ: Senator Cassidy talking about that this is just like wearing a seatbelt. You hope you don't need it, but you want to have it just in case, or Kevin McCarthy talking about Israel. And the fact that Israel has done such a brilliant job of getting people vaccinated, and now the company -- country's opening up again.

Brad Wenstrup, and he's emphasizing that he's first and foremost a doctor, rather than a member of Congress. But in the end, it's Tom Frieden's, Dr. Frieden's five facts that he gave people. And when you deal with the facts and you remove all the politics from it. And you have to be careful. I have a dream. I have a dream that that Joe Biden will actually credit Donald Trump and Operation Warp Speed for getting the vaccines to market so quickly.

I have a dream that Donald Trump will actually credit Joe Biden for getting the vaccines out to people, and that the two of them will credit their own doctors, and let their own doctors then deliver the rest of the message.

Jake, we could save thousands of lives if Joe Biden, Donald Trump together. We credit each other and then let the doctor speak for the rest of the 30 or 60 seconds, that would move people, that would get people's attention and would actually get them vaccinated.

TAPPER: Of the Republicans from that focus group that I heard on "This American Life", how many of them actually then went out and did get the shot?

LUNTZ: We've started to contact them again. And we know that at least five of them have done so. We put out -- if you go to my Twitter, you can actually see their comments. At least five have done it and we know that three have not. So we're trying to find out what the rest of them have done at this point.

TAPPER: Now you also did a different focus group of Republicans who ultimately did decide to get vaccinated after saying that they wouldn't. You asked what changed their mind. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lost friends and family and people getting the vaccine, we're surviving it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When my friend got sick and she told us, you don't want this on, you don't -- we don't wish this on you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And what it appeared as though I needed to have the shot to travel.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: First, responders on the line every day, looking at what's coming in and out and what they're bagging and tagging.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bagging and tagging, wow.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So it's -- yes, so it seems as though these first hand accounts of how bad the virus is and how easy the shot was were big persuaders and that seemed also to work in the focus group I heard from "This American Life" when Chris Christie came on and talked about how he got the shot.

[17:35:08]

How do you think the Biden administration, the CDC, doctors in the front line, how can they rework their messaging based on what you've learned?

LUNTZ: Well, with Chris Christie talked about brilliantly, was the idea that he had two cousins, one of them who was healthy that ended up dying from COVID, and the other one who was sicker, but survived the fact that it's so random. And in the end, it's not that he was a Governor that any of these people were politicians, or even that it's coming from the CDC or the FDA. It's the idea that you personalize it to the individual. And that's why their doctor matters.

And quite frankly, Anthony Fauci, who we all respect, he's not the best messenger right now because it's been politicized. We've got to keep the politics out of it. Jake, this segment itself is going to save a couple 100 people, a couple 100 lives, because they will have seen it, because you're presenting it in an honest, apolitical scientific fashion.

You began with the doctor, Dr. Sanjay Gupta and then you come to the voters themselves. This is exactly what the American people need to see so that no one feels guilty about it. They instead will seek more information. And hopefully, we all hope that they'll make the right decision.

Look, I think I've acknowledged in the past, that I got sick myself, not from COVID. But I didn't do the right things and I'm suffering for it now. I don't want anyone to have to go through what I've had to go through. I want them to make the right decisions to be fully informed. And in the end, this is an issue of life and death. And so we have to get the politics away and let the medicine, not the science, let the medicine speak for itself.

TAPPER: Yes, and it's such an important lesson because the goal here is saving lives. The goal here is the United States going back to normal. So we can -- in different segments or in different parts of our conversation in our daily lives, we can talk about why so many people are skeptical. But right now, the United States and people who love these people who are skeptical, we have to focus on convincing them.

Frank Luntz, thank you so much. Really appreciate your time today.

LUNTZ: Jake, before you cut off, the de Beaumont Foundation of the people who put this together, they made the commitment to get as many people vaccinated as possible regardless of race, income, education, region, partisanship. Thanks to the de Beaumont Foundation, this is working. This is working.

TAPPER: All right, we thank them and we thank you. Frank Luntz, thanks so much. Appreciate it today.

Coming up, it's a tool that could enable former President Trump to speak directly to tens of millions of people. Will he get his Facebook back? Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:41:48]

TAPPER: In our tech lead, tomorrow may prove to be one of the most consequential days ever at Facebook. Facebook's Oversight Board, which the company claims is independent, will announce whether or not to reinstate the account of Donald Trump.

One of its most popular users previously, and that would possibly give him a platform to reach his 32 million followers whenever and however he wants for good or for something else. Now tomorrow's decision could set a precedent for Big Tech versus free speech. It could have implications well beyond the United States, as Donie O'Sullivan now reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For the first time ever.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: President Trump has been banned indefinitely from Facebook.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Banned from Facebook, 35 million followers.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They believe that the risks of allowing the President to continue to use the service are two great ...

DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A move that shook the political and technology world. Facebook and Twitter's decision to suspend Trump after the deadly January 6th insurrection.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And we're going to the Capitol.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Facebook, one of the biggest companies in the world is afraid that the outgoing President will use its platforms to continue to incite violence and riots.

SHERYL SANDBERG, CHIEF OPERATING OFFICER, FACEBOOK: The risk to our democracy was too big that we felt we had to take the unprecedented step of what is an indefinite ban. And I'm glad we did.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): But now Trump may be allowed back on Facebook and Instagram.

SUZANNE NOSSEL, FACEBOOK OVERSIGHT BOARD MEMBER: I guess the question is, what's the line of how political they should be especially as we move past his presidency.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Facebook has set up an oversight board. It's a kind of Supreme Court for the platform. It's made up of experts in areas like free expression, human rights and journalism from all around the world. They review decisions made by Facebook to see if they were fair. The board's first big test is what our Facebook should have suspended Trump.

NOSSEL: The Oversight Board, if it takes on a case we'll review that and apply Facebook's own community standards and international human rights law to decide kind of thumbs up or thumbs down whether the right decision was made whether it should be reversed.

THOMAS HUGHES, DIRECTOR, FACEBOOK OVERSIGHT BOARD ADMINISTRATION: This case has two components to it. The first component is did they take the right decision on the 7th of January when they prohibited now former President Trump from posting content on both Facebook and Instagram. The second component is a broader question around what is the appropriate course of action when we're talking about political leaders.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): It's the first time a tech company has tried something like this.

HUGHES: The importance of the Oversight Board can't be understated. And arguably from my perspective, probably the most important thing for the last, you know, decade or two to emerge in terms of, you know, human rights and digital rights and freedom of expression in relation to the digital era.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Critics of Facebook argue the Oversight Board is not truly independent of Facebook. Suzanne Nossel is the head of the free expression organization PEN America, but she only recently joined the Facebook Oversight Board and will not be involved in the Trump decision. Nossel told CNN the board is not just about Facebook doing the right thing.

NOSSEL: You know, obviously, Facebook has its own motives in this. You know, let's be clear, their profit making enterprise, they wouldn't have done this if they didn't think it was good for business. They have taken some steps in putting money in a trust and creating an independent set of trustees that oversee the board itself.

[17:45:10]

And so there's some efforts to make it genuinely arm's length, whether those go far enough, we'll have to say, but I think it's crucial if the board is going to play any kind of useful role that that independence be absolutely respected.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): On Wednesday, all eyes will be watching as the board makes a decision that will send ripples through the Republican Party, Washington, D.C., and across the world.

HUGHES: This is most certainly a very consequential case also, not only of course, for the United States, but the world as well.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'SULLIVAN: And in the past hour or so, Trump has launched a blog essentially on his website, which has being touted, Jake, as a way for him to communicate directly with his followers. Just curious time, of course, that it is on the eve of this decision, he chooses to roll out this blog.

TAPPER: Yes, big decision tomorrow. And there's also this money part of it because Trump, of course, is a fundraising machine and Facebook was a huge part of that.

O'SULLIVAN: Yes, I would say three things, you know, the fundraising part of this, fake for the pro-Trump candidates, they'll be running in 2024. That's a part of it. Obviously, Trump can now start lobbing the verbal grenades hourly or minutely, if he will serve his platform back.

And finally, you know, beyond the United States, if Trump is allowed back on Facebook, what message does that send to other world leaders, to other dictators, doesn't say, well, yes, you can use our platform to inspire a violent insurrection and we will not suspend you indefinitely.

TAPPER: Yes, no. Consequential decision. On the other hand, there is the free speech ...

O'SULLIVAN: Absolutely.

TAPPER: -- issue. Not an easy decision, I would think for these people.

Donie O'Sullivan, thanks so much for joining us. Great to see you.

Coming up next, the crisis in India, one hospital's officer say they have an hour left of oxygen for its entire pediatric unit. We're going to go live in New Delhi next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:51:19]

TAPPER: In our world lead, India's COVID crisis is getting worse. International aid has been pouring in but some hospitals still do not have oxygen and PPE. The State Health Minister says Prime Minister Modi's government has, quote, kept states in the dark, when it comes to distributing critical aid and information during the pandemic.

The Indian government denies reports that they've delayed distribution of life-saving supplies. Today, India's cases climbed above 300,000 for the 13th day in a row, bringing the country to more than 20 million total cases.

CNN's Sam Kiley is live for us in New Delhi. He's been following the crisis from the beginning. Sam, what are conditions there on the ground today? Is there any hope that basic medical supplies and care will be properly distributed?

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the key word in that sentence isn't it, Jake, is the word basic. There's nothing more basic than oxygen. We need that to breathe, we need that to live in. It's that which is remains in scarce supply, notwithstanding a huge effort being made by the central government of India to try and distribute oxygen around the country.

And then those international donations led by the United States with $100 million worth of equipment and supplies that are continuing to pour into India, Jake. But I can tell you that just in the last eight or so hours, at least two hospitals have tweeted out appeals, both of them won the Triton hospital, the other one known as the Rainbow Hospital, both of them saying that they were an hour or two away from running out of oxygen with particular reference to a little babies in incubators and their pediatric wards.

Small children, tiny newborn babies already struggling to break into life would have been extinguished if they'd run out of oxygen. We understand that in both cases, very short, temporary supplies have gone through, but they are living hand to mouth literally, Jake.

TAPPER: And Sam, how is the vaccination effort going in India?

KILEY: Well, on May the 1st, the idea for the whole of the government was to extend the vaccination program to everybody over the age of 18 or adults. It has been going ahead but it has been going ahead in a very, very patchy way.

Because the main problem here, Jake, is actually the supply of vaccines themselves. Last year, the Indian government elected to pursue kind of vaccine diplomacy with the export of vaccines that arguably it might have used at home, particularly to poorer nations around the world that was hailed at the time as highly generous. Now, it's being seen as highly risky, it is going ahead the vaccination campaign but there is a shortage in pretty much every state, Jake,

TAPPER: And accord in India's most populous state, Uttar Pradesh, said today that the oxygen shortage is a quote, criminal act, and not less than a genocide, unquote, whom to the people of India blame (ph)?

KILEY: Well that is a very interesting question. There is -- frankly, there's an atmosphere of fear. For example, if you talk to doctors, casually, they will blame the central government, they will blame very often the state governments too, but particularly the government of Narendra Modi, get them on camera. And they're a little bit more circumspect, Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Sam Kiley in New Delhi, thank you so much.

We have some breaking news for you. Former Minneapolis Police Officer Derek Chauvin is now asking for a new trial. That story is ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:59:17]

TAPPER: We have some breaking news for you internationally. The attorney for former Minneapolis police officer and convicted murderer Derek Chauvin has just filed a motion asking for a new trial.

In the new filing, Defense Attorney Eric Nelson lists multiple reasons for the request including refusing to move the trial out of Minneapolis, which he claims meant Chauvin could not receive a fair trial, and that not sequestering the jury for the entire trial meant that jurors could have been influenced or prejudiced by watching television. Chauvin faces up to 40 years in prison. His sentencing is scheduled for the murder of George Floyd next month.\

You can follow me on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, TikTok at JakeTapper, on TikTok, it's JakePTapper. You can tweet the show at TheLeadCNN. Our coverage continues now with Wolf Blitzer. He is right next door in "THE SITUATION ROOM."