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The Lead with Jake Tapper

CDC Director Warns of a Possible Winter COVID Surge; Former President Trump Still Banned on Facebook; Trump, House GOP Leaders Back Stefanik's Efforts to Replace Cheney. Aired 4-4:30p ET

Aired May 05, 2021 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Chances are it will land into the ocean but they won't know until hours before because it's traveling at 18,000 miles per hour.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: What a time to get off the weekend show.

THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER starts right now.

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JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: A stark government warning today that we could suffer through another COVID surge if Americans do not keep up the pace of getting vaccinated.

THE LEAD starts right now.

Better safe than sorry. Dr. Fauci admits that CDC guidance on kids outside at summer camp might be a bit strict, but to keep those masks on anyway, at least for now.

Still reduced to just blogging. Former president Trump remains banned from Facebook, but that ban may not be long for this world.

Plus, fewer people have been traveling because of COVID but more people are making quite a scene in the not so friendly skies. What's causing people to lose their minds on planes?

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TAPPER: Good afternoon, everyone. And welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

We start with our health lead today. It can be done. Today, the Biden administration insisting that while the president's new vaccination goal is a stretch, they have confidence it can happen. But just hours after President Biden announced his target for 70 percent of American adults to have at least one dose of the COVID vaccine by the Fourth of July, the United States recorded another drastic decline in the number of daily COVID vaccinations falling below one million shots in arms yesterday for the first time in months.

Now the nation's top doctors are warning another virus surge is still quite possible.

CDC director, Dr. Rochelle Walensky, saying today she believes we could see more dangerous variants emerge and a potential winter spike in cases still a possibility -- as CNN's Alexandra Field reports.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I wanted to sit out and wait and seat effects it had on everyone.

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It only gets harder from here.

DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, CDC DIRECTOR: We knew that we would have a lot of supply by the end of April, early May, but we also knew that this would be the time that we had people more hesitant.

FIELD: Shots in arms falling to fewer than a million yesterday for the first time since February. The average number of vaccinations under 2.2 million, down from highs of 3 million to 4 million.

Accordingly, the White House's vaccination goal, 70 percent of adults getting their first dose and 160 million adults fully vaccinated by July 4th is more modest than the first 100 days.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's an achievable goal. It's a stretch goal but it's an achievable goal.

FIELD: Walgreens stores as of today offering walk-in appointments among the 40,000 pharmacy locations asked to do that.

DR. PHILIP KEISER, GALVESTON COUNTY HEALTH: Herd immunity has become a mythical creature like a unicorn except no one knows what it looks like. Our goal is to get as many people vaccinated as we can.

FIELD: Experts warning that at current vaccination levels, we could still see another surge in winter.

WALENSKY: I think we have to be humbled with this virus. I think we have variants ahead of us. We have, you know, not full immunity in this population.

FIELD: The head of the CDC says within the next few weeks, there could be a green light to start vaccinating children as young as 12. But there are questions about the CDC guidance on social distancing and masks for kids at summer camps.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: It looks a bit strict, a bit stringent, but that's the reason why they keep looking at that and trying to, you know, re-evaluate literally in real-time whether or not that's the practical way ago.

WALENSKY: What we're really trying to avoid in this camp guidance is what we saw in outbreaks in camps last summer. FIELD: Nationwide, new infections have dropped again. The daily average down 10 percent since last week and more states are opening up.

Three Vegas casinos now operating at full capacity.

Indiana welcoming back its state fair this summer.

And Missouri's state workers heading back to the office on May 17th. The governor saying it's time to take this step towards normalcy for ourselves and the people of Missouri.

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FIELD (on camera): And, Jake, we're also seeing more and more businesses and companies stepping up trying to offer freebies and other promos to encourage people to get vaccinated. Well, you can add tickets to the list.

Right here in New York, the Mets and the Yankees are offering Johnson & Johnson shots at the stadium plus free tickets to the game. The NFL also doing a giveaway of 50 Super Bowl tickets to fans who share their stories about why they got the shot -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Alexandra Field, thanks so much.

Joining us now to discuss, Dr. Jonathan Reiner, professor of medicine at G.W. University.

Dr. Reiner, new data published by the CDC shows a really sharp decline in how many vaccine doses were administered on Monday and Tuesday of this week, levels we have not seen since February. Now, to be clear, this is not because there aren't enough dose available. It's because people aren't getting them.

Do you worry that this pace is dropping off too quickly?

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Dr. Reiner appears frozen. We're going to take a quick break. Dr. Reiner's computer on the fritz.

Stay with us.

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TAPPER: We're back and continuing with our health lead. The CDC director warning today of another surge of possibly new variants if Americans do not keep up the pace of getting vaccinated.

Joining me now again is Dr. Jonathan Reiner, professor of medicine at GW University.

Dr. Reiner, you're going to have to get GW to get one of those broadband infrastructure benefits from the transportation bill, the infrastructure bill if that ever passes, but let's move on to the subject at hand. New data published by the CDC shows a really sharp decline in how many vaccine doses were administered Monday and Tuesday, levels we haven't seen since February. This is not because the doses are not available. It's because people aren't getting the vaccine. How concerned should we all be about this?

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DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Well, I think we should be concerned, but we always knew that the final, know, 30 percent or so of this country were going to be the hardest group to reach. We have vaccinated nearly all of our highest risk people, well over 80 percent of people in this country over the age of 65 have received a vaccination.

Now the challenge is to get to young people, and we have to be creative. We're not going to be able to do it through mass vaccination events. We're going to have to do it really on the grass roots level.

I love the announcement that Major League Baseball teams, including my beloved Yankees, are going to start vaccinating people at the beginning of games. We already heard that the NFL is going to do promotions in their stadiums, and we need to do all kinds of things like this. I particularly like the idea of getting vaccines now into primary care physicians and practitioners' offices so that we can vaccinate folks, you know, one by one as they come in now.

This is how we're going to get to the president's, you know, goal of about 70 percent. We have to vaccinate about 30 million people more to do that. Right now, we're a little less than a million people per day, but we're dropping, as you said, about 10 percent per week.

So, it will be close, but I do think the president will exceed the goal of 70 percent adults with at least one shot by July 4th.

TAPPER: I mean, should medical centers be going to places where there are skeptics, going to bars, going to churches, setting up booths, going to where the skeptics are or the people who haven't gotten vaccinated yet, going to where they are. Might that be part of this solution?

REINER: Yeah. I completely agree with that. Stacey Abrams in Georgia used to say you need to reach voters where they are, not where you want them to be, and that's exactly how I feel about vaccinating people. We need to reach out to them where they are, not get them to -- get them to come to us, so we need mobile units.

Frankly this is where the J&J vaccine really finds a big niche where you can reach people. Maybe you only get to give them one shot, but we need to be very flexible, and we need to leave no one behind. And all this starts by asking people what their reluctance is. Answering questions, and understanding that people have legitimate questions, but these vaccines are now showing themselves to be not just spectacularly effective but also remarkably safe.

TAPPER: Yeah.

REINER: And we'll get there.

TAPPER: CDC Director Walensky warned today that a winter surge of coronavirus is possible. Do you agree? What steps does the U.S. need to take now to avoid that beyond just stepping up vaccinations?

REINER: Getting a ton of shots into arms. Vaccinating as many people as we can, getting close to what, you know, we've been calling herd immunity.

And also I won't be surprised if come fall, there's a booster shot that everyone already vaccinated gets maybe customized to whatever variant appears to be coming or dominant in the United States.

Look, this is going to be an ongoing battle. We're really winning now but it's not like come fall, we're just going to put this behind us like last year's wardrobe. We need to continue to be vigilant and fight this going forward.

Having said that, very soon, we're going to reach about 60 percent of adults in the United States who have been vaccinated, and that's where the curve plummeted in places like Israel and the United Kingdom. So, over the next few weeks, we're going start to see deaths in the United States drop dramatically.

Having said that, come fall, we're going to need to be vigilant for any resurgence. We -- I know pharmaceutical companies are working on boosters to address new variants. You know, this is an ongoing thing.

TAPPER: All right. Dr. Jonathan Reiner, thanks so much.

Turning now to our tech lead.

REINER: My pleasure.

TAPPER: Today, former President Trump called the decision by a Facebook oversight board to keep him off Facebook at least for now, quote, a total disgrace, but today's decision might really only be temporary.

The board said the suspension of Trump from Facebook after the insurrection was justified but they did not defend having it be indefinite. So the ball is back in the court of Facebook itself and ultimately, CEO Mark Zuckerberg, to decide within six months whether or not to reactivate Trump's account and possibly renew his access to his 32 million followers. That kind of reach and the power to silence it so easily has critics calling out today's decision.

Let's bring in CNN's Donie O'Sullivan.

Donie, so this was a nuanced, some might say muddled ruling. They basically said it was okay to ban him, just not forever, right?

DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: That's right. The board said that Facebook acted correctly in the days immediately after the insurrection because they said there was an imminent potential for further violence and Trump's account and the way he was posting there would be used to incite that. But they said that Facebook basically does not have the policies or rules or have an adequate explanation to make this ban permanent. That's what they told Facebook to say, you know, six months from today to make a decision and to frankly write these rules.

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But, Jake, this is a lose-lose situation for Facebook because no matter what they do here, they're going to get slammed from either side. And it's a real win-win for Trump because i he can get back on Facebook, he will have his platform, and very, very important going into next year's midterms, a fund-raising platform. But if he doesn't get back on Facebook, he will be able to also campaign and fundraise on the basis that he's being censored by big tech.

TAPPER: Now, Donie, we should note before I ask this next question consistently the top ten articles shared on Facebook are from conservative outlets, consistently whether it's Fox News or Ben Shapiro, whatever, consistently conservatives have their material shared on Facebook.

O'SULLIVAN: Absolutely, yes.

TAPPER: But let me ask you. Some of the backlash over today's decision is coming from Senate Republicans who insist on saying that conservatives are censored.

Senator Josh Hawley tweeted, quote: Here's a real life example of the tyranny of big tech, a fake Facebook court decides Facebook can do whatever Facebook wants.

From Senator Rick Scott, we heard, quote: Big tech thinks they can control everything.

Senator Marsha Blackburn wrote, quote: It's clear that Mark Zuckerberg views himself as the arbiter of speech.

So, free speech issues are on the table, even for Republicans who generally have previously argued private companies should get to run how -- their own companies however they want.

O'SULLIVAN: Yeah. Look, I mean, Facebook has been -- Facebook has been crying out for regulation. They want Congress to act. They want some laws that they can act within the perimeters of because it would make it easier.

But, obviously, you know, there is the political op right there to touch political speech for particularly good reason, of course, with the First Amendment.

As you mentioned, look, conservative content and Republican content goes viral on Facebook every single day, but the concerns that some of those Republican lawmakers bring up about Facebook's power, that stuff has also been echoed even by Angela Merkel's spokesperson, German chancellor, who said that it was concerning that a company like Facebook could de-platform a then sitting president of the United States.

So there is a legitimate conversation to be had here about Facebook's power. Whether that leads to meaningful regulation or laws, that's a different issue entirely.

TAPPER: Absolutely. Donie O'Sullivan, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Turning now to our politics lead, former President Trump is officially endorsing New York Congresswoman Elise Stefanik to replace Wyoming Congresswoman Liz Cheney as a member of House Republican leadership. Cheney essentially is being purged because she refused to lie about the 2020 election and the January 6th insurrection.

Stefanik, on the other hand, is a fierce Trump loyalist. She not only has been willing to spread the big lie, she voted to disenfranchise nearly 7 million Pennsylvanians after the insurrection based on those lies.

Let's get to CNN's Ryan Nobles. Ryan, what does Mr. Trump have to say?

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, not surprisingly, Jake. He's taking somewhat of a victory lap because appears of what appears to be the fate that has been sealed for Liz Cheney and her role as the number three ranking House Republican.

In case there's any Republican in the House of Representatives that's going to attempt to argue that it's not because of Cheney's attacks of the former president and his peddling of the big lie, Trump himself is making it clear that that's the reason why. This is what he shade in a statement earlier today: Warmonger Liz Cheney who has virtually no support left in the great state of Wyoming continues to unknowingly and foolishly say there was no election fraud in the 2020 presidential election. Never give up.

So the point we're making here is that Trump himself is drawing the line here, that if you're going to support him and his vision of the Republican Party, then you need to adopt the big lie that there was actually rampant fraud in the presidential election, fraud that could amount to him actually being the winner. We know that's not true. We know there's been numerous Republican officials in states across the country that have pushed back on that.

But what we're seeing here, Jake, is a Republican Party that just a few weeks ago that was willing to allow Liz Cheney to be honest about what happened in 2020, hold on to her leadership post. They have now completely abandoned here and that's because of the influence that the former president has over his party and one he'll continue to have for the foreseeable future -- Jake.

TAPPER: Yeah, purging the truth tellers from House Republican leadership.

Ryan, thanks so much.

President Biden was asked today about the attempt to remove Cheney. CNN's Kaitlan Collins is live at the White House.

Kaitlan, you spoke to Biden. What did he have to say?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPNDENT: He said he's baffled by what's happening in the Republican Party. President Biden is someone who has been in politics for decades. He's seen a lot of fights he says in the Democratic Party even, but he told us he's never seen anything like this.

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JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It seems as though the Republican Party is trying to identify what it stands for, and they are in the midst of significant sort of mini revolutions going on in the Republican Party.

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I've been a Democrat for a long time. We've gone through periods where we've had internal fights and disagreements. I don't ever remember any like this.

I think the Republicans are further away from trying to figure out who they are and what they stand for than I thought they would be at this point.

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COLLINS: Now, Jake, President Biden also told us he thinks it's healthy to have a two-party system, good to have a debate. He thinks that's really important, but basically saying that's not what's happening right now, saying that the Republican Party is struggling to find its identity in this post-Trump world now that there is no Trump in Washington, but, of course, he's still looming over the party pretty large.

But where all this could get interesting is remember that President Biden has invited the leadership of Congress to the White House next week on May 12th, so that will not only be Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi but Mitch McConnell and Kevin McCarthy as well.

And, Jake, that meeting is scheduled to happen the same day that that vote on whether Cheney is going stay in leadership could happen as well.

TAPPER: All right. Kaitlan Collins, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

Big business versus the big lie. Major corporations lining up against new voter restriction efforts in Texas, telling Republicans that it could cost them if they sign on.

Drinking, brawling and belly-aching about wearing masks. Airlines have had it with the spike and passengers behaving badly, they say. The new details from the FAA, first on CNN. That's ahead.

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TAPPER: Welcome back.

Continuing in our politics lead, former President Trump wants Congresswoman Elise Stefanik to replace Congresswoman Liz Cheney in Cheney's leadership position. That vote to purge Cheney all but certain to happen on May 12th.

The reason they are purging Liz Cheney is pretty clear cut. House Republican leaders McCarthy and Scalise have decided to go all in on the big lie about the election and Stefanik is on board. Cheney has the quaint notion that lying to the American public is not good.

Let's discuss.

Congresswoman Mia Love, so your former colleague Elise Stefanik, she has the support of Trump, McCarthy, Scalise. Is this race over? Is Liz Cheney gone?

MIA LOVE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, you know, it's really interesting how people are defining conservatism now. If you look at the record of both of them, you look at lifetime American Conservative Action -- Conservative Union, Cheney has 78 percent conservative rating, where Stefanik has 44 percent. You hook at Heritage Action, Cheney has 80 percent, where Stefanik has 42 percent.

It's really quite interesting to me because this is not a disagreement on policy. It's not a disagreement on ideas. It's a disagreement on a former president that incited an insurrection on the Capitol, literally attacked a branch of government, so I just don't understand what type of message? There's so much they could be focused on right now in terms of like spending, in terms of all of the programs that the president wants to put out there.

This is a chance for the Republicans to say, look, it's too much too fast. Focus on what's happening with the economy and what's happening with the debt instead of trying to eat each other up. It's just ridiculous to me.

TAPPER: And, Paul, I guess we all know what this is. I mean, Congresswoman Love just put us pretty clearly. It's not about -- I mean, Cheney is more conservative, not only more conservative than Stefanik, she's arguably more conservative than McCarthy and Scalise who are leading the cause for the purge, certainly more conservative than Donald Trump, but this is about fealty to Trump and his lies.

I guess, Paul, if you wonder, does this matter beyond Washington, D.C.? Is this something that voters will care about, let's say a moderate Republican voter who divided to take a chance and go for Joe Biden last fall, is this something that will matter to them?

PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think it can, and I think Mia makes a really good point in that it can matter to voters but it can also distract them from issues that Republicans should want to run on.

You know, I -- I just think -- parties exist for two reasons, right, to advance ideas and to win elections. Miss Stefanik voted against the Trump tax cut. I happen to agree with that, but I'm pretty liberal, and I wouldn't feel very comfortable in the Republican Party, but she's much more liberal than most of her Republican colleagues yet they don't care because she's swearing this oath to Trump.

So they are not pushing ideas anymore. They didn't even have a platform in the last elections which has never happened in American history.

Now winning elections is the other job. If Trump helped them do that, I would understand that and I would respect that. He doesn't. Trump is the first president since Hoover to preside over his party losing the White House, the White House and Senate. That's a hat trick that's very hard to do. 90 years since anybody has lost all three in just a four-year span.

TAPPER: Yeah.

BEGALA: So, he doesn't help them win. The truth is they have history on their side. They get to draw the maps in redistricting. They're passing these voter suppression laws which I know we'll get to.

So they have a lot of structural advantages. They don't need Trump. In fact, Trump is a disadvantage. So, I don't -- it's just a personality cult and maybe a political death cult.

TAPPER: But what's also strange about this, Mia, is today, Trump and his press release and on his blog went after Cheney calling her a warmonger. He also attacked Mike Pence for not overturning the election which Pence did not have the power to do.

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