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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Ukraine Caught in Middle of U.S. Political Battles; Trump Backs Loyalist to Replace Liz Cheney; Ukraine Asking for Wish List of Weapons from U.S. to Protect Themselves from Russia on Land & Sea; Airlines See Spike in Confrontations Involving Unruly Passengers. Aired 4:30-5p ET

Aired May 05, 2021 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: He also attacked Mike Pence for not overturning the election, which Pence did not have the power to do, and McConnell for losing the Georgia run-offs, although, arguably, Trump had much more of a disadvantage -- he caused much more disadvantage for the Republicans than McConnell did.

[16:30:18]

I mean, what occurs to me here is that Trump doesn't just want people to buy in on this one lie about the election, or the second lie about the insurrection. It's a whole universe of lies.

You have to walk in and you have to believe that, like, oh, yes, Mike Pence had the power to overturn the election, and Mitch McConnell is the reason they lost Georgia. It's -- it never ends.

MIA LOVE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It's it's a whole movement that you can never be 100 percent with the president on.

And the problem is, is he requires 100 percent loyalty. And so that's what's really interesting to me. So let's take this idea that he believes -- which he does -- believes that the election was stolen from him. Instead of using his money to end his voice to attack other Republicans, why not go in and actually try to fix some of the things that you claim are wrong?

But that's not what he's doing at all? And, yes, I do believe that Trump helps in some areas. I think he -- actually, this is about money. This is about being able to raise funds. And I think there's going -- there's a cost to that.

TAPPER: Yes.

LOVE: What you're doing is, you're sticking with the president.

But, in the meantime, the ideas that you're supposed to be pushing out, the ideas that Americans believe in, some of those Republican ideals are getting lost, and the conference is getting torn apart. And so you have to ask yourself, is he worth that? And I don't think he is.

TAPPER: Paul, today. McConnell said that 100 percent of his focus is on stopping the Biden administration.

Here's what Vice President Harris had to say about that. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are sincere and serious about what -- the potential to actually get something done together. We believe it's possible. And we're not going to give up on that until it becomes evident that it's not possible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Is it possible, Paul?

PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, anything's possible. As Cory Booker would always say, I'm a prisoner of hope.

But McConnell was running same playbook he ran very successfully against President Obama in President Obama's first term. I'm not sure that the same thing works now, for a couple of reasons. First, people really, really like what Biden is doing. They like getting $1,400 in their checking account. They like being able to see their children and grandchildren again without having to wear masks because they got their arms around this COVID crisis.

They like what Biden is doing. And so when McConnell leads his team to oppose all of these things--

TAPPER: Yes.

BEGALA: -- some of which Trump was for -- my goodness, Trump wanted $2,000 checks in everybody's pocket, too.

TAPPER: Right.

BEGALA: I don't think that it's a smart strategy politically for him. And I think the vice president is right to want to continue to leave the door open to principled compromise with Republicans.

TAPPER: Feigning the desire to be bipartisan is always a good strategy, at least in the first few months.

Mia and Paul, stay with us.

I want to turn now to Texas, where corporate giants such as American Airlines and Microsoft and H.P. are injecting themselves into the debate over new proposed voting restrictions that would make it more difficult for Texans to vote.

Let's go to CNN's Dianne Gallagher Austin, Texas.

Dianne, these companies are on a list of some 50 businesses and associations urging Texas lawmakers to oppose these new voting restrictions. They don't say they're targeting Republican legislators, but it seems like that that's who they're talking to.

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, the Republican lawmakers in Texas are the only ones proposing and voting for these bills. So it seems pretty clear who this is directed at.

Now, a difference between what we saw happen with businesses, say, in Georgia and what's happening here in Texas is, they're getting their word out. They're speaking out before final votes are taken and any of these dozens of bills can be signed into law, including these election overhaul proposals, one of which is getting debate on the House floor here in Austin tomorrow.

Now, we're talking about a whole host of changes here, including increasing criminal penalties for voters and election officials for different parts of the process, like sending out ballots applications to people unsolicited, empowering partisan poll workers, adding new restrictions to mail-in voting, which is already very restrictive in the state of Texas, and banning things like drive-through and 24-hour voting that were used in large counties to make ballot access better, especially during the pandemic.

Now, I want to read part of what that letter from those corporations said. They said -- quote -- "We stand together as a nonpartisan coalition, calling on all elected leaders in Texas to support reforms that make democracy more accessible and oppose any changes that would restrict eligible voters access to the ballot."

[16:35:06]

Well, Jake, of course, Republicans in Texas say that's not what they're doing, that they're simply trying to promote uniformity and secure a ballot, though they have still not been able to produce any sort of demonstrable fraud that happened in 2020 that they're trying to fix or protect voters from.

TAPPER: All right, Nicole, thanks so much. Appreciate it. Diane, I mean. Thanks so much.

Paul, you're from Texas. Is this push from big business going to work?

BEGALA: Well, I am from Texas. I have fast and deep contacts there. So I called them. I called, in fact, the most brilliant young communications director for state Senator Sarah Eckhardt from Austin, just a perfect guy, handsome, my son Billy.

Billy says these corporations are not only signing letters. They're sending their lobbyists to go talk to members. Dell Computers, one of the massive Texas corporations, a huge employer in that state, highly respected, they're sending their lobbyists to talk to members. So they're not just signing a nice letter. They're weighing in.

And it's slowed down the bill in the House. Dianne's right. They're going to hear it tomorrow on the House floor. But I hear that it's having some effect. Will it be outcome-determinative? Hard to say. TAPPER: Congresswoman Love, I have to ask you, I mean, Texas had a very successful election last November. There was no reported major incidents or even minor incidents, as far as I can tell, of any fraud that would have affected one thing or another, one election or another.

Not only that. Republicans did incredibly well. They won seats that Democrats had. What is the reason for this?

LOVE: Well, I think that any time a state wants to fix or tweak the ability to vote, that's OK. I mean, Utah actually changed all of its last -- to all vote by mail. And that's been good, by and large. I find it really interesting that a lot of people don't even -- they don't -- they don't like that.

But it's -- you want to always focus on giving people more access, more time, more location. And any voting laws that are changed should be geared towards that. I mean, when you start throwing in, you can't provide water at the polling locations, I mean, that's just ridiculous.

But any state that moves towards giving people more access, more time, more ability, more locations to vote, then that's good. And so I'm going to wait and see what they're going to do. But I think these businesses going in and saying, this is what we want, that they want fair voting, I think that that's good. And I think that more people should weigh in and say, and keep an eye on the state legislature and make sure that they're doing right by the -- by Texans.

TAPPER: Congresswoman Mia Love, Paul Begala, thanks to both you. Appreciate it.

Coming up, in a CNN exclusive, we ask the Ukrainian foreign minister about Rudy Giuliani. Does he think that the ex-president's lawyer broke any laws?

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:42:28]

TAPPER: In our world lead: Secretary of State Antony Blinken is about to touch down in Kiev, Ukraine.

There's a lot on the diplomatic agenda. And, so far, the United States has not made it easy for Ukraine. Ukraine, of course, was thrust into the spotlight during the 2019 impeachment trial of former President Trump. Now that country is figuring out its role in a possible Biden- Putin summit, Russia's continued land-grabbing and military bullying of Ukraine, and the U.S. attorney's investigation into Rudy Giuliani.

CNN's Matthew Chance had an exclusive sit-down with the Ukrainian foreign minister to find out more about what's on his wish list and Ukraine's potential involvement in the Giuliani investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Ahead of the secretary of state's visit, his Ukrainian counterpart is putting his best fist forward.

There are uncomfortable issues in the U.S.-Ukrainian relationship, like the activities in Ukraine of Rudy Giuliani, former President Trump's personal lawyer, ahead the 2020 U.S. election, issues Ukrainian officials would prefer to ignore.

CHANCE: Do you believe he may have engaged in criminal behavior?

DMYTRO KULEBA, UKRAINIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: Well, I'm not a lawyer to make my judgment on the criminal nature of his behavior, or--

CHANCE: How would you characterize it?

KULEBA: -- or the absence.

But he was definitely playing politics. And he put the situation at risk for Ukraine and for Ukraine's relationship with the United States. And we did our best to avoid that trap and to maintain that bipartisan security with bipartisan support from the United States.

CHANCE (voice-over): But Ukraine is again under withering scrutiny, with the FBI investigating the former New York City mayor for his alleged actions regarding Ukraine.

CHANCE: Can you tell us, has the FBI or any other investigating agency in the United States approached Ukraine for assistance with that investigation into Rudy Giuliani?

KULEBA: Not to the best of my knowledge. I'm not aware of any formal legal -- legal process that has been initiated recently.

CHANCE (voice-over): Even if there was, Ukraine has for years desperately avoided being drawn into the toxic U.S. political battle.

In fact, as the U.S. secretary of state pays his first visit here, Ukrainian officials want their own battle to be the focus, especially with a Russian armada assembling of their eastern seaboard.

[16:45:09]

The Kremlin insists it's a naval drill, posing no threat.

CNN has learned that Ukraine has a shopping list of weapons it wants from Washington, including air defense systems and anti-sniper tech, crucial, say officials, with so many Ukrainian troops being gunned down on these front lines.

The question is, will Secretary Blinken and President Biden who says he wants to find a stable pact with Russia, offering Putin a summit later this year risked inflaming Russia and Ukraine tensions.

In the Obama administration when Biden was the vice president, they didn't provide lethal weaponry to Ukraine for fear of provoking Russia. What do you think has changed? Has anything changed?

DMYTRO KULEBA, UKRAINIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: My impression is that the Obama administration is about the past, and Biden administration is about today, and this administration is more committed and more resolved and resolute in containing Russia.

CHANCE: How far that U.S. resolve extends in Ukraine will soon be put to the test.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHANCE (on camera): Well, Jake, Secretary Blinken arrives here in the Ukrainian capital Kiev tonight, in the next couple of hours. Ukrainian officials say the fact that he's coming here at all sends a powerful message to Russia about U.S. support.

But there is that summit being planned later this year between President Biden and President Putin of Russia, and so there's a nagging feeling amongst some Ukrainians I've spoken to in this city that it's really, not Ukraine that's Washington's higher priority -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Matthew Chance, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Coming up, passengers behaving terribly on planes, allegedly taking swings at flight attendants. The rap sheet just out from the FAA.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:51:23]

TAPPER: In hour national lead, with more Americans flocking to airports, airlines are reporting more incidents of unruly passengers, and we're not only talking about people are refusing to wear masks during a deadly pandemic, many passengers are not even behaving with basic decency.

CNN aviation correspondent Pete Muntean has information just released by the Federal Aviation Administration in a story seen first right here on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(EXPLETIVE DELETED)

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It is the newest issue facing pandemic-era air travel, flyers flying off the handle. The Federal Aviation Administration has received 1,300 reports of unruly passengers in the last three months alone.

CNN obtained federal reports of four new cases where passengers are accused of berating, grabbing and hitting flight attendants.

One report alleges a passenger on a February JetBlue flight threw everything from insults to food to bottles of illegal booze causing the flight to turn around. He is now facing a $32,000 fine.

BRITTNEY MOHAMMADI, AIRLINE PASSENGER: I know we do some messed-up things when, you know, alcohol gets in us.

MUNTEAN: A California woman apologized after video surfaced of her jumping the counter in Miami. The FAA says reports of unruly passengers used to come in every few days and now it says flight crews are calling in issues multiple times a day.

FAA Administrator Steve Dickson instituted a zero tolerance policy in part because of problem passengers traveling to the Capitol riots.

STEVE DICKSON, FAA ADMINISTRATOR: We will not address these cases through warnings or counseling.

MUNTEAN: The FAA says it's even investigate an Alaska state senator who is banned from Alaska Airlines for refusing to wear a mask though she claimed to have an unspecified exemption.

In another new case, the FAA finds a combative passenger on a January flight $16,000 for allegedly hitting one of the flight attendants with his bags. The head of the largest association of flight attendants says help from the federal government is essential.

SARA NELSON, PRESIDENT, ASSOCIATION OF FLIGHT ATTENDANTS-CWA: It means everything to have that backing and to send a very clear message to travelers that these are the rules and these are the consequences if you don't comply.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MUNTEAN (on camera): This uptick is disproportionate to the number of people flying right now, which is still way down compared to before the pandemic. Of those 1,300 reports, the FAA has now assessed fines in 13 cases, and it acknowledges there's still a lot of work to do -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Pete Muntean, thanks so much.

Trump has made his pick to purge Congresswoman Liz Cheney from Republican leadership. You might remember her from previous lies she has told about the election.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:58:44]

TAPPER: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

This hour, fallout from the raid on Rudy Giuliani. What federal prosecutors want from a judge and who Giuliani advisers think should pony up for his legal fees.

Plus, the Pentagon is tracking a massive Chinese rocket out of control and heading for earth and scientists have no idea where it's going to make impact, meaning it could hit land, and leading this hour, Donald Trump's continued grip on the Republican Party and the purge of Liz Cheney from House leadership.

Today, Trump is endorsing Congresswoman Elise Stefanik to replace Cheney in her party leadership post. Cheney is being pushed out because she refuses to lie about the 2020 election and the January 6th insurrection. Stefanik is not only a Trump loyalist and pusher of the big lie, she also voted to disenfranchise almost 7 million Pennsylvanians based on those lies.

Let's get right to CNN's Manu Raju who's on Capitol Hill.

Manu, Congresswoman Stefanik has the support of Trump, of House Republican Leaders McCarthy and Scalise. What happens now?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, almost certainly, she will be elected as the new Republican conference chair on this coming Wednesday because of the support that she is getting behind the scenes.