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The Lead with Jake Tapper
FBI: "DarkSide" Gang from Russia to Blame for Pipeline Cyberattack; CDC: Majority of U.S. Adults Have Received At Least One Vaccine Dose; Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) is Interviewed About Her New Book & Lessons Learned from 2020; Caitlyn Jenner Speaks Out; Republicans Prepare to Oust Liz Cheney; Interview With Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA); Israeli Defense Forces Target Hamas After Rockets Fired Toward Jerusalem. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired May 10, 2021 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: The fact that you struck that from the script and reinsert it I think tells everybody everything they need to know.
VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Can't do it.
THE LEAD WITIH JAKE TAPPER starts right now.
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JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Russian hackers messing with gas prices ahead of Memorial Day.
THE LEAD starts right now.
A hack attack shutting down parts of a major American pipeline that fuels half the East Coast. The White House blames a Russian gang for the cyber crime. Will Americans see a surge at the pump?
Daily COVID deaths in the U.S. lower than at any time since the early days of the pandemic. Dr. Fauci now suggesting it may be time to loosen mask restrictions indoors.
Plus, CNN sits down with Caitlyn Jenner. She wants to be the next governor of California. And she's sounding a little less MAGA today than she did last week with Hannity. .
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TAPPER: Welcome to THE LEAD, everyone. I'm Jake Tapper.
We start today with the national lead. The FBI today confirming a criminal group originating in Russia is indeed responsible for a cyber attack on the largest fuel pipeline in the United States in exchange for ransom. Today, Colonial Pipeline says it's trying to restore its mainline shut
down between Texas and New Jersey. Keeping that critical infrastructure offline could set a surge in gas prices in the U.S. This as President Biden says his administration is trying to crack down on similar attacks on critical systems.
You'll recall, of course, the SolarWinds attack went undetected for months and infiltrated U.S. agencies and private sector systems. Foreign actors are suspected behind recent hacks on police departments and hospitals during the pandemic, even a water treatment plant near Tampa, Florida.
Now this ransom wear attack on a pipeline yet again exposed the vulnerabilities in U.S. infrastructure -- as CNN's Oren Liebermann reports for us now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It will be several more days before the 5,500-mile pipeline that fuels much of the Eastern Seaboard will be back online. Colonial Pipeline says they are bringing the pipeline back in steps. They had to shut down parts of their system to contain the cyber attack and each part has to be checked before it becomes operational again. It is a massive disruption not only to Colonial Pipeline but potentially to the Atlantic Seaboard. The company says it provides 45 percent of the fuel in the east coast, not only gasoline for cars but diesel and jet fuel.
ELIZABETH SHERWOOD RANDALL, WHITE HOUSE HOMELAND SECURITY ADVISER: Thus far, Colonial has told that is it has not suffered damage and can be brought back online relatively quickly but that safety is a priority given that it has never before taken the entire pipeline down.
LIEBERMANN: The FBI confirms the attack was conduct by a group of cyber criminals calling themselves DarkSide, a group that started in Russia. The White House says there is no evidence so far the Russian government was behind the hack and DarkSide claimed their goal was financial, not political.
The attack against Colonial Pipeline was a ransomware attack which locks a computer and holds it hostage for money. This was double extortion, holding the pipeline's computers hostage and threatened to release sensitive investigation.
MAYA HOROWITZ, DIRECTOR, CHECK POINT THREAT INTELLIGENCE: This organizations need to have some holistic solution that could cover all the potential holes in their environment that could be used by potential threat actors.
LIEBERMANN: The Colonial Pipeline cyber attack highlights the vulnerability of critical infrastructure in the United States. In February, hackers infiltrated a Florida water treatment plant momentarily increasing chemicals in the water which could have sickened thousands. According to cyber security firm Check Point the average American
utility is subject to 260 cyber attacks per week, a 50 percent increase from just two months ago.
It's also part of a barrage of cyber attacks from Russia, some independent and some state-sponsored like the massive SolarWinds hack that targeted government agencies and Fortune 500 companies.
ROB LEE, CEO, DRAGOS CYBER SECURITY FIRM: If they're not enforcing the rules and making sure that they take care of their criminal sector, there's some culpability to that state government regardless if they're involved or not.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIEBERMANN (on camera): Targeted industries when it comes to ransomware attacks, health care, education and government. Jake, we've seen an explosion in attacks, according to Check Point, a tripling of ransomware attacks in the U.S. in just the last nine months.
TAPPER: All right. CNN's Pentagon correspondent, Oren Liebermann, thanks so much. Appreciate it.
To underscore the magnitude of this cyber attack on the nation's largest fuel pipeline today, Biden's top homeland security and cyber security officials were brought into the White House press briefings.
CNN chief White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins joins me now live.
And, Kaitlan, the Biden administration appears to be trying to at least convey that they are trying to get ahead of what might be to come.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Jake, they are.
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And they held emergency meetings on this all weekend long at the White House. That's why you saw those officials come out at briefing and President Biden address it himself during those remarks on the economy. But I also think that they have been clear to say this is a private company. We're talking about what we can do in the federal government and President Biden said they do want to prosecute these ransomware criminals as he referred to them.
But when he was asked if any kind of nation state sanctioned this, maybe a Russia, this is what he told reporters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So far, there's no evidence based on from our intelligence people that Russia is involved, although there's evidence that the actors' ransomware is in Russia. They have some responsibility to deal with this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: So, he said they have some responsibility. But, Jake, he said he does still plan to meet with President Putin. That's a meeting that we're expecting could happen when he goes to Europe in June.
TAPPER: And, Kaitlan, this cyberattack comes as the Biden administration was already working on a plan to try to stop these types of attacks?
COLLINS: Yeah, an executive order is expected to come out in the coming days, where for President Biden to sign. That would basically be to build up cyber defense infrastructure, what that's going to look like when it comes to federal agencies, and the software that they often use from contractors. And part of that is making sure they have stricter requirements, whether it's authentication, making sure they have tokens so you can't easily get in there and warp something like that like we've seen with SolarWinds hack and other hacks that have gone on with the Chinese government in the recent years.
But the question is whether or not that's actually going to go far enough. And one part of this does have to do with them actually letting the government know when there's a breach or vulnerability, but whether or not it could stop something like what you saw with SolarWinds. That's something it doesn't appear the federal government felt comfortable enough to state fully yet, Jake.
TAPPER: All right. Our chief White House correspondent, Kaitlan Collins, thanks so much. Appreciate it.
Let's go to Richard Quest now. He's the editor at large for CNN Business.
And, Richard, let's talk about the consumer side of all this. Colonial Pipeline said today it hopes to restore service by the end of the week. The company operates in 14 states in the U.S., stretching from the Houston area all the way up to New Jersey and services seven airports. That's a lot of land in the United States.
How much of a ripple effect could this shutdown have nationwide?
RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR AT LARGE: Depends on one question, one point, Jake -- how long it lasts. Three to five days, you're okay. You've got limited response. You've got strategic reserves. You've got oil that's stored right the way up that length.
The 65 million barrels or so stored up in the Northeast of the United States across the region. So a three to five days, you have pressure but you're okay. Once you're going longer, if Colonial keeps what they send and say it's up and running later this week, you won't notice a meager effect.
If they find there's some serious things wrong with the pipe or they can't open for whatever reason, then the ripple effects will begin. And then, Jake, you will start to notice a much greater effect in the market. At the moment, it's really a case of hold your breath and wait to see what happens. TAPPER: Well, for those not in the United States, we are heading into
lots of travel time. We have Memorial Day weekend coming up. We have the summer coming up. This is when people do tons of traveling.
How severe could this get?
QUEST: Oh, if it lasts a long time, it could be very severe. Prices are already up 38 percent this time last year, slightly artificial because last year, things were so depressed. But this year's driving season, as we call it, is going to be a bumper one, because people can travel. They don't want to go overseas yet. They want to get in the car and drive to other parts of this beautiful country.
So the driving season will be strong. If this lasts, I would expect to see a higher rise in price. At the moment, the price increase has been marginal. If it goes higher, Jake, keep an eye for sticky prices. They go up faster than they can come down.
TAPPER: Richard, is there anything the Biden administration can do to get ahead of this?
QUEST: Not really. The oil that's already there is out there. Yes, they could suspend the Jones Act that would allow foreign flag carriers and vessels to ply trade up and down the Eastern Seaboard and they can extend the truckers' hours as they have, but this is a distribution problem with the pipeline. It's not a supply of oil problem.
So even if you put more in from the strategic petroleum reserve, even if you flooded the system, how are you going to get it physically to the Northeast, to the eastern part of the country? That's the big issue, distribution, not supply.
TAPPER: All right. Richard Quest, thank you so much. Appreciate it.
Did Dr. Fauci just nudge the CDC to loosen mask guidelines indoors for those who are vaccinated? The very promising numbers that could lead to that. That's next.
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Also, CNN one-on-one with Caitlyn Jenner and her split from Trump as she tries to pull off a huge upset in the California recall.
Stay with us.
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TAPPER: Some good news in our health lead. We're talking about the lowest number of daily deaths recorded yesterday in the United States since March 2020. And daily cases the lowest since June 2020.
When you look at the maps of week to week case numbers there's not a single state in the United States in the red. All states are either down or steady. But vaccine hesitancy remains a huge problem in this country. And as
CNN's Nick Watt reports, some health experts warn those Americans holding out on getting shots could prevent the United States from ever achieving herd immunity.
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(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. JONATHAN REINER, PROFESSOR OF MEDICINE, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY: This summer is going to see so much closer to normal than we've had in a very long time.
NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There's great news in the numbers. Sunday, the lowest new case count in nearly 11 months, and the lowest daily death toll in over a year. Still, 238 lives were lost.
TAPPER: Has the United States turned the corner?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would say we are turning the corner.
WATT: So time to loosen, lose those indoor mask rules?
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, CHIEF MEDICAL ADVISER TO PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Yes, we do need to start being more liberal as we get more people vaccinated.
WATT: Starting today, vaccinated traders are back bare faced on the stock exchange floor in New York.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do think there needs to be benefits for people who've been vaccinated.
WATT: Why?
Well, April 10th was the record high. More than 4.6 million doses in arms. Yesterday, fewer than 2.4 million. Southern states in particular are struggling.
In Alabama --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The people who wanted to vaccine have gotten vaccinated. It's not an access issue anymore.
WATT: This week, Iowa ordered just 29 percent of its vaccine allocation, reports the A.P. Wisconsin ordered just 8 percent.
XAVIER BECERRA, HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: I know of no community that is free of COVID, and I know of no state or community that doesn't need more of its people vaccinated. But we can only say that to folks and give them the best guidance. You can only lead a horse to water, right?
(END VIDEOTAPE) WATT (on camera): Well, not entirely true. You can also bring the water to the horse, bring the vaccines to the people. In New York City, they plan to do that by opening vaccination sites inside subway and train stations and give free tickets to people who get a shot.
Here in Los Angeles now, at all the city-run sites, you can get a vaccination without an appointment. They're doing that behind me here them place was packed a couple of months ago. Today, I've seen one car go in -- Jake.
TAPPER: All right. Nick, thanks so much. Appreciate it.
Dr. Paul Offit who's a member of FDA vaccines advisory joins us now.
Dr. Offit, thanks for joining us.
Not a single state on the U.S. case map right now is red. That's good news. Are you optimistic we might be nearing the end of this pandemic?
DR. PAUL OFFIT, DIRECTOR OF THE VACCINE EDUCATION CENTER, CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL OF PHILADELPHIA: Yes, we're almost there. You have about 35 percent of the population that's fully vaccinated. That's good. You have about 100 million people who have survived natural infection according to antibody surveillance data. That's another 30 percent.
So, now, there's overlap. Some people who are naturally infected were vaccinated. Those aren't distinct groups. But if you add it up, it's probably 55 percent of the U.S. population that is immune.
You need to about to 80 percent. We need to get probably another 80 to 100 million people vaccinated and then we can significantly curtail the spread of this virus when we hit next fall and winter, because this is a winter virus. I mean, it spreads most easily in the winter.
And I worry people are going to be fooled by the summer months thinking, you know, we're past this and then we won't hit that 80 percent level. We need to hit that 80 percent level. We can do it. we just need to get vaccinated.
TAPPER: How concerned are you about those Americans who are hesitant or don't ever plan to get the vaccine? Can we reach herd immunity without them?
OFFIT: If it's an access issue, we can certainly solve that. If it's an education issue, we can solve that. But if it's -- a denial is an issue, meaning I'm simply choosing not to get a vaccine, that's a problem.
And I think no, I think if we are sort of hovering around 70 percent population immunity, come next winter you're going to see more of a surge. If we can get to 80 percent plus, then I think we'll just see a bump next winter.
We can do this. It's so easy. I mean, there's a solution to the pandemic and that's vaccination. We have vaccines that are remarkably safe and effective. This is an easy decision. TAPPER: Yeah. A year ago if somebody said we're going to have these
three vaccines that are great and work with more than 95 percent efficacy, we could have would have thanked God to know that. And that's where we are.
The FDA is expected now to amend Pfizer's emergency use authorization to allow 12 to 15-year-olds to get the vaccine. How big of a game changer could that be for reaching herd immunity and also for getting our kids back to school, summer camp, et cetera?
OFFIT: It's huge. And certainly children do suffer this disease. I think that people have this notion that children don't suffer. This is not true. There's more than 3.5 million children who've been infected with this virus, and that's probably a low estimate.
There have been hundreds of children who have died from this virus, and there's this unusual disease called multisystem inflammatory disease which we see in our hospital all the time that can cause children not just to have high fevers but evidence of damage to heart, liver, kidneys. So, it's important to get the children vaccinated. And will be important when we go down to 12 years of age to have children vaccinated when they go back to high school next year because, you know, this can help not only those children, but also the teachers with whom they come in contact.
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TAPPER: A Kaiser Family Foundation survey found 19 percent of parents say they are not going to let their children get the vaccine at all. Fifteen percent only if schools require it. Will parental hesitancy be our next hurdle?
OFFIT: I think it is. I do think the question, is it reasonable to mandate these vaccines? I mean, you can do the carrot or the stick. The carrot is you can come back to work, you can come back to onsite learning, which colleges and universities are doing, if you get vaccinated.
The stick is mandates. You know, these vaccines will likely be licensed by the end of the summer which I think will make it easier people, at least psychologically to mandate vaccines.
But it's fair to do. I mean, you want people to do the right thing. In a better world, people would know the date and do the right thing, but when they know and date, and then choose not to do the right thing, it's affecting not only them but those they come in contact with.
Remember, there are thousands of people, Jake, in this country who can't be vaccinated. They can't be vaccinated because they're getting chemotherapy for their cancers or biological therapies for their chronic diseases. They depend on those around them to protect them. I think you have a duty as a member of society to do that. But sometimes people need to be compelled to do the right thing.
TAPPER: Dr. Paul Offit, thank you so much. Appreciate it. Coming up, she's the godmother of the progressive movement. We'll see
whether Senator Elizabeth Warren is pleased with President Biden's plans to reshape the American economy and help for families. She joins us next.
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TAPPER: We're back with our politics lead.
President Biden has four crucial meetings at the White House this week as he tries to sell Republicans and skeptical Democrats on his $4 trillion worth of economic plans. Today, he's hosting two at Democrats critical to getting his infrastructure deal, or anything really, passed, Senators Joe Manchin and Tom Carper, before two key bipartisan meetings later this week.
Joining me now to discuss is Democratic Senator Elizabeth Warren of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. She's also the author of the brand new book "Persist".
Senator, I want to talk about the book in a sec, but before I do, I wonder if you can give us a little bit of a reality check, because the White House is projecting optimism on these negotiations with Republicans in the Senate. Multiple times in your book, you write about Minority Leader Mitch McConnell's complete disinterest in negotiating in your view.
Do you think that a -- not just a bipartisan deal, but a worthwhile bipartisan deal on, say, infrastructure is possible?
SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA): So, let me start with the fact that we know we need an infrastructure bill. Roads, bridges, now communications, and we need to add child care to that.
We want to have a 21st century economy. We want daddies and mamas to go back to work. We need all those things. And I think pretty much everybody acknowledges that.
I like what the president did on our rescue package. He said he wanted to go bipartisan. He invited the Republicans in. He laid out the plan.
But he said, we're going to have a solution that is big enough to solve the problem. And it was popular across the nation, and since it was going to help Democrats, Republicans and independents, and since Democrats, Republicans and independents liked it, we declared it bipartisan, we passed it, and we're done.
TAPPER: But it wasn't bipartisan in terms of how it passed, though, I guess, is the point. You know, it sounds to me like you're saying he needs to follow the same template.
WARREN: Uh-huh.
TAPPER: Say this is -- we need it to be big. Senator Capito has introduced a bill that's about I think $500 billion or $600 billion. Biden's transportation, infrastructure bill is about $2 trillion.
WARREN: Uh-huh.
TAPPER: Would you be opposed to any sort of compromise in between, $800 billion, $900 billion?
WARREN: I'm not going to start by negotiating against myself, but understand this -- what it's going take to repair the roads and bridges in America, what it's going to take to make sure that not just part of America has access to broadband, but all of America has access to broadband. And what it's going to take to make sure that we have universal child care, child care that is affordable, available, and high quality all across this nation.
That is a big ticket item, and we've got to make sure that we put enough resources in to make that happen. I think that the president's budget, quite frankly, doesn't go quite far enough.
TAPPER: Yeah, let's talk about that.
WARREN: I think we need to add more.
TAPPER: Because you write -- President Biden talked about child care today and you write quite a bit about it in your book "Persist". You wrote about your struggles to find child care when you were a working mom.
WARREN: Yeah.
TAPPER: Writing quote, I went on from this job to write 12 books, get tenure at Harvard, build a consumer agency, beat a Republican incumbent and to take a seat in the Senate and run for president of the United States. Woo-hoo! I'm quoting you.
And yet -- you probably say it differently. And yet child care -- child care nearly knocked me out. Child care or the lack of child care nearly sent me packing twice.
So, the Biden American Families Plan would invest $225 billion in child care. You've asked him to nearly triple that.
WARREN: Not quite. Let's do numbers for just a minute.
TAPPER: Okay.
WARREN: He has 225 for what he deems child care and 200 for what we deems early childhood education. My view is, those are the same thing. That is, they're a continuous line of having our children cared for and having our children in early childhood learning.
So, he's at about 425. I think the full ticket for child care and early childhood education is about $700 billion. That gives us universal coverage.
[16:30:03] It also means we can raise the wages of every childcare worker and preschool teacher in America. Those are predominantly women, predominantly women of color.
This bill is called the jobs bill.
TAPPER: Mm-hmm.
WARREN: And we're talking about putting a lot of money into roads and bridges. And let's face it. That builds a lot of construction jobs. And I'm happy for that, genuinely happy.
But how about we put some money into childcare that allows people to be productive? And that means lots of good jobs for women. We can raise those jobs up and make them true professional jobs that help millions of families across this country.
TAPPER: So, I had Senators Gillibrand and Ernst on the show a week or two ago. They were talking about a bill that they worked on together to combat sexual assault in the military.
WARREN: Yes, it's a good bill.
TAPPER: And one of the things that was kind of refreshing about it is the two of them compromising.
Have you talked to -- because there are a number of Republican women senators who I imagine have had the same personal experiences on this, not that it should only be women senators, but it tends to be that men senators don't care or pay attention to these issues.
WARREN: Yes. Can we stop and do a commercial for why we need more women in the Senate and the House?
(LAUGHTER)
TAPPER: Well, that's definitely true, especially when it comes to issues like these that men don't--
WARREN: Yes.
TAPPER: But have you talked to any -- Murkowski or Collins or Ernst or any of these other women senators to talk about these issues that you're talking about, the childcare and early education?
WARREN: So, the interesting part here is, we have been talking about this for a long time--
TAPPER: Right.
WARREN: -- I mean, long before Joe Biden came to the White House, actually, long before Donald Trump came to the White House. We have talked about this issue over and over and over, I suspect far more than the men have talked about this issue.
TAPPER: Yes, that's what I'm saying. Yes. WARREN: I get your point.
Now what we're down to is starting to negotiate over the numbers. I'm reaching out. We're talking about numbers, all of us. We're talking with the White House about numbers and talking across the Senate and across the House about numbers.
But the point -- let's not slip past this.
TAPPER: Mm-hmm.
WARREN: The president of the United States two weeks ago addressed the entire nation. And he said there are some things we just absolutely need.
And one of the words that came out of his mouth following that sentence was childcare, childcare across this nation, early childhood education.
And that is groundbreaking. Now we have got to negotiate to the right number. We have got to make it universal, available to all of our parents. We have got to make sure that we have made a commitment, so we don't just say, oh, yes, we're glad to help if you can find childcare.
Ron Wyden and I are working on something that puts more money into the infrastructure to actually help build childcare.
TAPPER: Mm-hmm.
WARREN: Half the places in America are what are called childcare deserts.
TAPPER: Right, nothing there at all.
WARREN: There's just nothing there.
TAPPER: Right.
WARREN: It doesn't make any difference how much you could spend. It's just not there.
So, this is the kind of thing we have to work on. And the way I see, it's got two parts. One is, this is how you boost productivity in our economy. But the other is, this is how we live our values. We want to have an America that truly is about opportunity for everyone, and that includes regardless of gender, regardless of race, regardless of the kind of family you were born into, this one is personal for so many of us who have lived through this experience.
That's what I talk about in "Persist," how personal policy is. And it starts with being a mother, with childcare.
TAPPER: Before you go, you recently said you plan to run for reelection in 2024.
WARREN: Yes.
TAPPER: According to Politico, that surprised some Massachusetts Democrats, who were looking at Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley or former Congressman Joe Kennedy to run for that seat.
What's your response to anybody being surprised by this? And would you possibly change your mind if Democrats lose control of the Senate in 2022? It's not fun being in the minority, as you know.
WARREN: I'm not in this job because it is fun. I am in this job to fight for the things I believe in.
I'm in this job to fight for an America where everybody gets some opportunity. And that's what persistence is all about, including running again in 2024.
TAPPER: The book is "Persist." The author is Senator Elizabeth Warren, Democrat from the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.
Thanks so much.
Don't be a stranger. We have two hours a day now every day.
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: So, come here. Talk policy. We're happy to have you.
WARREN: You bet. Let's do it.
TAPPER: Good to see you.
WARREN: Good to see you in person, my first.
TAPPER: Yes. No, it's nice. It's nice.
WARREN: It is.
TAPPER: Good to see you.
Congresswoman Liz Cheney likely has only hours left in Republican leadership before she gets kicked out of her caucus leadership for the offense of telling the truth. New reporting about her feelings on the vote next.
Plus, CNN sits down with Caitlyn Jenner for the first time since she announced her run for California governor. She's already splitting with Trump in the GOP on some issues.
Stay with us.
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TAPPER: In our politics lead: Moments ago, House Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy sent a letter to his fellow House Republicans confirming that there will be a vote on the future of Congresswoman Liz Cheney on Wednesday,.
McCarthy wrote -- quote -- "These internal conflicts need to be resolved, so as to not detract from the efforts of our collective team. Having heard from so many of you in recent days, it's clear we need to make a change" -- unquote.
McCarthy goes on to say -- quote -- "Unlike the left, we embrace free thought and debate," which is an interesting statement from McCarthy, considering Republicans are about to oust Liz Cheney for not agreeing with Trump's lies.
CNN's Jamie Gangel joins us now with brand-new reporting on how Congresswoman Cheney views all of this.
And, Jamie, what are your sources telling you?
JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: So, I just have to say it's a big tent, unless you're Liz Cheney.
TAPPER: Right.
GANGEL: She doesn't get to be--
TAPPER: Well, it's a big tent unless you're willing to tell the truth and stand up for the truth about the election.
[16:40:05]
GANGEL: Correct.
So, I think what people need to know about Liz Cheney and this vote on Wednesday is that she does not see it as a personal vote. She sees this as principle over politics. She is forcing her Republican colleagues to either vote for what she sees as democracy, truth, the rule of law, or to vote for Donald Trump.
She could have pivoted. She didn't have to make all of these statements. She in a certain way orchestrated this vote. She wanted it to come to a head. And I believe this is just the beginning of what will be a campaign against Donald Trump. She does not think Donald Trump will fade away. And she thinks that democracy is in danger, and this is what she has to do.
TAPPER: So, Wednesday's vote will likely remove her from leadership in exchange for a congresswoman who is more liberal than Cheney and less -- was less supportive of the Trump agenda than Cheney, but she's willing to lie, Elise Stefanik.
Congresswoman Liz Cheney still is a congresswoman, though. I mean, she loses her leadership position, but she's still in office until at least January 2023. So what happens next?
GANGEL: So, I think what we're going to see is a growing campaign after this.
After all, every time the Republican Party does something, or Donald Trump says something, we're going to all go to Liz Cheney and say, what do you think about that? And she's not alone.
It's true, it's a pretty lonely club, Mitt Romney, Larry Hogan from Maryland, Adam Kinzinger. But keep in mind there were all of these Republicans who either left Congress because they were tired or they resigned, people, Republicans who gave up their party registration, who may be interested in another direction.
And I think that's the direction Liz Cheney is going to lead.
TAPPER: Forming a third party?
GANGEL: I don't think that they're near forming a third party yet, but they do not think that Donald Trump is going away. And they think the Republican Party needs, if possible, to be brought away from him.
TAPPER: Well, I mean, it's just all a sad spectacle to watch.
Jamie Gangel, thank you so much. Appreciate it.
GANGEL: Sure.
TAPPER: Sticking with our politics lead, for the first time, CNN is sitting down with a Republican candidate for California governor, Caitlyn Jenner.
The former Olympian and reality TV star is returning -- is running to unseat the current Democratic governor, Gavin Newsom. But Jenner is also breaking with the Republican Party on a few key issues.
CNN's chief political correspondent, Dana Bash, sat down with Jenner.
And, Dana, Jenner is eager to portray herself as not in entirely lockstep with Trump and the GOP.
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right.
And immigration is kind of exhibit A of what you just said. On the question of a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants, she told me that she's in favor of it, that she does believe that people who are in America who are undocumented, but are living a good life here and contributing, should have an opportunity at citizenship.
That's just one of the many issues that we talked about. Another is what you were just talking about with Jamie, Jake. And that is the whole question of whether or not Joe Biden is a legitimate president.
Here's how that discussion went.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: Do you believe President Biden was duly elected?
CAITLYN JENNER (R), CALIFORNIA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: He is our president. I respect that.
I realize there was -- there's a lot of frustration over that election. You know what? I'm frustrated over what happened back then.
BASH: The then Trump campaign went to court. They filed scores and scores of lawsuits. There was no evidence that there was anything fraudulent.
Do you -- are you comfortable with that? Do you believe that the election was stolen?
JENNER: No, I believe in the system. But I believe in the -- what we need to do in the future is, we are a democratic republic. We need to have integrity in our election system.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: So, you see there, Jake, certainly not a full-throated endorsement of Joe Biden as the free and fair and duly elected, legitimate president.
But, also, when I asked specifically if she thinks that the election was stolen, as the former president says over and over and over again, she said no, so trying to be on a lot of sides of this, but also clearly not wanting to engage and to take the litmus test that is being put forward by the former president for pretty much every Republican on the ballot.
[16:45:00]
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Yeah. That was a Rorschach test answer. I mean, you can see in it whatever --
BASH: That's a real good way to put it, yeah.
TAPPER: Whatever you want. I think plenty of people who think the election was stolen falsely will like that answer.
I want to say in complete contrast, Jenner went on Fox late last week and slammed Biden saying, quote, I don't think I've agreed with anything Biden has done. So where is Caitlyn Jenner ideologically? This is a very Democratic state, California.
BASH: It certainly is. And it's hard to think of a state where the former president is less popular and that's clearly something that she understands. She broke from -- she endorsed Donald Trump, candidate Trump in 2016, publicly broke from him because of his stance on transgender issues and now she says she doesn't want to be labeled.
She is running as a Republican, Jake, but when I talked about the Republican Party generally she said I guess I stand in certain areas where the Republicans stand but not always. She says she's more middle of the road.
TAPPER: All right. Dana Bash, thanks so much.
You can see the whole interview Dana did with Caitlyn Jenner on "ANDERSON COOPER 360". That's tonight at 8:00 p.m. Eastern.
Thanks, Dana.
Rockets fired towards Jerusalem. The Israeli military firing back after bloodshed at one of the city's holy sites. We're going to go live to Jerusalem next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:50:52]
TAPPER: In our world lead today, flashpoint in the Middle East. Israel saying it targeted, quote, Hamas terrorists in Gaza. This is in response to rockets being fired towards Jerusalem and into Israel, coming after a weekend of violent clashes that injured hundreds between Israeli police near a site holy to both Jews and Muslims, the most recent escalation sparked by the election of Palestinian families from their homes in East Jerusalem.
CNN's Hadas Gold is live for us in Jerusalem.
Hadas, the Palestinians are claiming several people were killed including children in this retaliatory strike?
HADAS GOLD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Jake, we're hearing from the Palestinian ministry of health in Gaza saying that -- the most recent statement we have from them is that nine people have been killed, including three people. The ministry is saying these deaths were caused by an Israeli air strike. But the Israeli army and spokesperson is telling me that they are taking any reports of civilian casualties very seriously, they say they are investigating the incident and they hope to have the result of that inquiry into that incident very soon.
All evening long, Jake, there have been sirens going off, especially in southern Israel and rockets being fired from Gaza towards Israel. The latest count we have around 150 rockets from Gaza into Israel. A few hours ago, we even saw six rockets targeting Jerusalem.
Now that has not happened for several years. The air raid siren actually went off while tens of thousands of Israelis were planning to take part in a march for what's known as Jerusalem Day. It's a day when Israel took control of the Western Wall.
There's a lot of concerns about this especially since it was planned to go through parts of the Muslim parts of the old city of Jerusalem where we have seen many clashes between Palestinians and Israeli police especially around the Al-Aqsa compound. Earlier today, more than 300 police officers and 9 police officers were injured in those clashes, but as the air raid sirens went off, after those air raid sirens went off, police decided to just cancel the march entirely because this is a new escalation of the situation here.
It is very tense. Jerusalem and Israel has not seen a situation like this in quite some time. Jake.
TAPPER: Hadas, what kind of a response are we anticipating seeing from Israel whether it has to do with the eviction, possible eviction of these Palestinian families or the Israeli military? GOLD: Well, in terms of the possible evictions. There was supposed to
be a Supreme Court hearing on that actually today, but that had been postponed at the request of the attorney general. There's supposed to be a new date set in about 30 days. In terms of the Israeli military response, a spokesperson is telling me we'll see significant Israeli activity during the night.
There are strikes against the military targets and they said already tonight they have targeted a Hamas tunnel and they say that they are working on the defense capabilities both on the ground and in the air. They say they are using precise munitions, but even as I'm talking right now we're getting more red alerts, sirens going off in southern Israel right now, Jake.
TAPPER: All right. Hadas Gold, live on the scene in Jerusalem, stay safe. Thank you so much.
Coming up, more than 400 people killed or wounded by gun fire in America in just 72 hours, including a shooting in New York's Times Square. The latest on the epidemic of gun violence in America.
Then, Cyber Ninjas and bamboo ballots. Now, death threats. The Republican Arizona secretary of state joins us to discuss - - the Democratic, sorry, the Democratic Arizona secretary of state joins us to discuss the wild secret audit.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:58:56]
TAPPER: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.
This hour, a turning point in the pandemic. Dr. Anthony Fauci now suggesting it could be time to ease indoor mask mandates.
Plus, a partisan audit in Arizona fueled by the big lie and aim at uncovering proof of any number of conspiracy theories of fraud in the 2020 election, including bamboo ballots supposedly sent from Asia. I'll talk to the state's election chief.
And leading this hour, President Biden's pitch for bipartisanship. This afternoon, despite a disappointing jobs report on Friday, President Biden claiming his economic plan is working as he proposes more spending, $4 trillion more. Today is the start of a critical week for negotiations with Republicans over Biden's infrastructure and family plan.
First, though, President Biden must also get Democrats on board. Biden is meeting with two key Democratic senators today, Joe Manchin of West Virginia right now, Tom Carper of Delaware later this evening, a reminder with the slimmest of margins in the U.S., Senate President Biden cannot afford to lose even one Democratic vote as CNN's Kaitlan Collins reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So let's be clear. Our economic plan is working.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Biden offering a full-throated defense of his economic strategy.
