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The Lead with Jake Tapper

GOP Lawmakers Who Voted To Impeach Trump Defies Party Again, Plans To Vote "Yes" In Jan. 6 Commission; Interview With Rep. Peter Meijer (R-MI); N.Y. A.G. Joins Criminal Probe Into Trump Organization; Russia Shows Off Putin's Military Buildup Near The North Pole; Republicans To CNN: Jan.6 Commission Could Hurt "Midterm Message"; CNN Analysis: States With More Vaccinations Have Fewer COVID Cases. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired May 19, 2021 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Sources say no topics are off limits.

Plus, post presidency life just got a little tougher for Donald Trump with a new criminal investigation into the Trump Organization.

And leading this hour, a vote expected any minute set to reveal the future of the Republican Party, not to mention democracy and truth in the U.S. The House of Representatives is voting on a bipartisan commission to investigate the deadly January 6 insurrection at the Capitol. This was a commission that was agreed to and negotiated by Republicans and Democrats.

But now, many Republicans are lining up in opposition after Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy who could be called as a witness before the committee and who helped spread the election lie that incited the interaction after McCarthy announced he would not support the creation of the Commission.

And the House Republican leadership is telling its members to vote no. The legislation is still expected to pass the Democratic controlled House. Then the attention turns to the Senate where the Minority Leader there, Mitch McConnell, also announced his opposition today saying he fears Democrats will control the hiring of staff, which is an issue that could be addressed if one was trying to fix the agreement instead of kill.

In moments, one Republican congressman who is defying his party and planning to vote yes on the commission will join us live. But let's start this hour with CNN's Manu Raju on Capitol Hill.

And Manu, as we stand by for this vote, you're learning that more Republicans are trying to protect their futures and stave off any Republican primary challenges by opposing this commission?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. One thing that Republican leaders are making clear is the concern that any investigation into January 6, even at bipartisan commission that would be selected, but both sides could actually undermine their efforts to try to take back control of the House and the Senate next year.

The concern is that bringing back the focus to what happened to January 6, potentially putting the focus on some Republican members of Congress even raising question about whether Republican leader Kevin McCarthy in the House would have to testify.

All those things would be politically damaging, and could stay in the new cycle and ultimately. And ultimately, when the report would ultimately come out, the legislation calls for the end of the year, but perhaps it could slip into next year. The concern would be that that would be something that could distract from the Republican message.

That is what Senator John Thune, the number two Republican in the Republican conference told me just earlier today. He said that -- he said that his concern is that it could be used as political fodder against Republicans. And what John Cornyn, who is also a member of the Republican leadership said, he said that would be Nancy Pelosi's dream, he said, to get a commission investigation to continue into 2022. He said I'm not going to play help Democrats fulfill their dreams.

TAPPER: Manu, if the House passes this bill to create the commission, which we do expect since Democrats control the House. You have now Republican senators following the lead of Kevin McCarthy and Mitch McConnell voicing their opposition. Could this bill be dead on arrival? Are there not 10 Republican senators who would vote to create it?

RAJU: It's not clear if there are 10 Republican senators. Even some who voted to convict Donald Trump for inciting the insurrection on January 6, still are not there yet. Pat Toomey for Pennsylvania, for one, told me he hasn't decided. Senator Susan Collins, who also voted to convict Donald Trump said that she wants changes to this bill.

There's an expectation that getting 60 votes would be a high hurdle, which is why one reason why Democrats right now, Jake, are talking about the possibility of going on their own in the House and creating a select committee that would be controlled by Democrats, and that Democrats have subpoena power to call hearings, have witnesses and do their own investigation.

And that would only require the vote of a simple majority of the House to create. It's something that Nancy Pelosi is not ruling out. She says she prefers to go the bipartisan route with a bipartisan commission, but she said if Republicans block it, they may take matters into their own hands.

TAPPER: All right, Manu Raju on Capitol Hill, thanks so much.

Let's bring in Republican Congressman Peter Meijer of Michigan. He's one of the 10 House Republicans who voted to impeach Donald Trump.

Congressman, good to see you again. Thanks for joining us.

You have said publicly that you're going to vote for this, this bipartisan bill to create a commission to investigate the capital attack. Explain your decision, which now bucks the guidance of your party leadership.

REP. PETER MEIJER (R-MI): Thank you, Jake. You know, back in January, I cosponsored a piece of legislation that was asking for just this same bipartisan independent commission, along with 30 of my colleagues. So this was something that was strongly supported in January. But I guess, you know, some things have happened in the past couple of months.

But at the end of the day, we need accountability. We need an open transparent investigation that will yield a public document that the people can reference. I mean, right now, we still have more questions than answers on what occurred on January 6, what led up to that. And really, it's essential.

We don't move past this without that sense of accountability. If we just try to whitewash, if we try to forget what happened that day, we're guaranteed to see a repeat and additional political violence.

[17:05:05]

TAPPER: Have you spoken to Republican leaders in the House, Kevin McCarthy, Steve Scalise, Elise Stefanik about how you plan to vote?

MEIJER: No. And my position on this has been quite clear, and I've been consistent on it from January till now. So, this is something that we are anticipating will receive several dozen votes, but it's certainly a challenge as we've seen a shift in the winds and shift in direction.

TAPPER: Well, explain what you mean, because Kevin McCarthy asked, demanded three things from Nancy Pelosi in February, and she at first pushed back and said no, and then ultimately, she caved on all of them, including having the committee be -- commission be 50-50. Both sides, Democrats and Republicans having subpoena power, she gave him everything.

And John Katko, Congressman, from New York, he negotiated this with a Democrat Bennie Thompson. What happened? Why would Republicans not want an investigation into a deadly attack on your own workplace?

MEIJER: No, I'll be honest, I don't know some of those behind the scenes dynamics. I serve on the Homeland Security Committee with John Katko. I know we were strongly disappointed when the first iteration that Speaker Pelosi put out was stacked against Republicans, who would have been seven Democratic members and five Republicans and really was an effort to make it, you know, just a partisan roadshow rather than anything that we could focus on producing an objective document to the people.

But you know, this is challenging. There are many who say we should just move past this, that we shouldn't, you know, rehash what occurred on January 6, but especially seeing the white washing, the memory holding, the revisionism of too many who are trying to say that nothing bad happened that day that it was peaceful, that it was hugs and kisses.

You know, I find that deeply insulting to the Capitol Police officers who served us that day, to the Metropolitan Police officers as well who were injured, to those who lost their lives. It's just disgraceful.

TAPPER: Minority Leader McCarthy argues that the Commission will be duplicative. He cited the Justice Department investigation that has led to 400 arrests. Why do you think, I mean, I don't take him at his word. I think Kevin McCarthy is not operating in good faith here.

But answer the argument that he's putting out there because Mitch McConnell is making it too, that this isn't needed. It's duplicative with what the Justice Department's already doing.

MEIJER: Yes, the text legislation itself says that any ongoing investigations, anything else that will be, you know, concurrent, will be included, that'll be respectful and mindful of ensuring that it doesn't go into judicial or law enforcement activities that are ongoing, or excuse me, Justice Department or law enforcement activities that are ongoing. So, I'm really struggling with some of those -- with some of those explanations and rationale.

And, and I think at the end of the day, what John Katko negotiated as Ranking Member of Homeland Security was something that was negotiated in good faith to produce an objective bipartisan commission. And I hope we'll have some more of my colleagues supporting it as well.

TAPPER: We know from Congresswoman Herrera Beutler, a Republican colleague of yours, that Kevin McCarthy had this very heated conversation with Trump on that day. He might be subpoenaed, or at least asked to testify before this commission. If he refuses to do so voluntarily, should he be subpoenaed?

MEIJER: Again, that'll be a question for the commission. But certainly, there are plenty of folks who want to look past a lot of the hard truth of that day. Speaker Pelosi herself has a lot to answer for in terms of the timeline, and who knew what and when in terms of requesting resources.

So again, this is one of the reasons why I think she wanted to stack the deck early on, is that there's going to be a lot of difficult things that are unveiled on both sides of the aisle. But I think that's for the good of the people and for the good of the country, that we have that full accounting and understanding to be able to process have accountability and ultimately resolve and ensure this never happens again.

TAPPER: You have made a name for yourself in your short time in Washington, D.C., being conservative and standing for conservative principles, and also standing for truth and decency and accountability. Is it lonely?

MEIJER: I have my oath of office, I have my fidelity to the Constitution. But honestly, there's a lot of other folks here who are trying to do the right thing. Obviously, it's a challenging environment. It's a challenging media environment. It's a challenging political environment. But at the end of the day, I don't think we're elected to take the easy way out.

TAPPER: Republican Congressman Peter Meijer of Michigan, thanks so much. Appreciate.

MEIJER: Thank you, Jake.

TAPPER: We're going to continue to keep an eye on the vote on Capitol Hill. And obviously, we will bring that to you when the results happen.

Plus, a new criminal probe into the Trump Organization, what that might mean for former President Trump.

And then CNN got rare access to a Russian military base in the Arctic as Russia is trying to stake its claim on a very valuable piece of real estate. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:13:50]

TAPPER: In our politics lead today, a new level of legal risk for former President Donald Trump, New York Attorney General Letitia James' office has now opened a criminal investigation into the Trump Organization. This is in addition to the ongoing civil investigation which began in 2019.

The probe is focused on whether the Trump Organization falsely reported property values to secure loans and get tax benefits. Let's discuss all of this with CNN Senior Legal Analyst and former U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York Preet Bharara.

And Preet, we should note as always, Mr. Trump fired you, just in case anybody wants to assume that what you're about to tell us is because of your anger and your grudge against him.

What could have happened for this investigation to add a criminal component? What does that mean? Explain for the common folk.

PREET BHARARA, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, so I think it's significant. By the way, I've gotten over the firing some time ago, but thanks for mentioning it.

Look, you have -- it's an easier threshold and hurdle to bring a civil case against someone. The standard of proof is preponderance of the evidence not beyond a reasonable doubt. Intent is not necessarily needed to be proved in a civil case.

[17:15:02]

And what's interesting here is that you had an attorney general's office that had an ongoing investigation. They didn't begin with a criminal investigation. Often you have matters that I oversaw in the Southern District of New York, where it begins as a criminal investigation, because that's the basis you have to believe going forward. Here, they began civil over a period of months.

And to answer your question, some evidence must of surface. Testimony, documents, or a combination of the two or other things that cause someone to think, you know, what this goes beyond a civil case. We might have evidence of criminal intent, that it wasn't negligence. It wasn't recklessness in, you know, the valuations of businesses or something else along the lines that you mentioned.

And we think there is a probability or possibility that we can prove that someone intended to break a law and not just accidentally broke a law. That's why I think this is significant because they didn't go guns blazing with a criminal investigation at the outset. Only after some developments happen that we don't know about yet, did they take it to the criminal level?

TAPPER: So the New York Attorney General Letitia James, she's essentially joining forces with the Manhattan district attorney, Cy Vance. This is his last year in office. Does that mean that the end of this investigation might be near?

BHARARA: You know, that's the speculation. And you know, one of the people who has speculated that Cy Vance is retiring. The primary for that race is in a month. There'll be a new district attorney in office in January. Cy Vance has taken other measures, including hiring an outside forensic accounting firm, and hiring a private lawyer, bring that person within the district attorney's office. Mark Pomerantz, was a distinguished lawyer has been on the criminal side, both on the defense and the prosecution.

And it just strikes me that if you've been doing an investigation for a while you are leaving office, you're hiring someone from outside for continuity, that you have at least some serious expectation that you're either going to close the case or, I think more likely, given the -- given the tea leaves that we're all reading, that you're going to bring the case before you leave office and not leave it to your successor in fairness.

TAPPER: Trump has called these investigations a Democratic witch hunt. He's accusing prosecutors of trying to silence voters because, "They don't want Trump to run again."

Letitia James has said her decision to run for attorney general was largely about Trump in her view, holding him to account. But does Trump have a point here?

BHARARA: Look, you know, I let Letitia James defend herself. I think she's been doing an excellent job as attorney general. And I don't see any evidence of any particular, you know, biased conduct in the course of this investigation both with the things that are ongoing, and also with respect to the Trump Foundation, which is basically dismantled.

But I will say, it wasn't great. And not everyone's going to be happy with me for saying this. It wasn't great to run a campaign in which you're talking frequently about how one of your goals and one of the reasons you should vote for me is that I'm going to prosecute or investigate or sue a particular individual, whether it's the President of the United States or otherwise.

And you know, the district attorney's race, which I have an active interest in in Manhattan, you see that the people who are running for D.A., the leading candidates, are not saying that. And that would have been the better practice.

TAPPER: And we should point out though, in defense of Letitia James, who's not here to defend herself, although she's always welcome to come on the show, she is also investigating Governor Cuomo as well.

Preet Bharara, thank you so much. Appreciate your time, as always.

Just in the first face to face meeting between top U.S. and Russian officials, the warning Secretary of State Blinken just delivered, that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:23:07]

TAPPER: In our world lead, despite President Biden's repeated personal attempts to sway Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu toward de- escalation with Hamas, Netanyahu confirmed he will continue the deadly military operation in Gaza, "Until its objective is achieved."

Gaza's health ministry, which is run by Hamas is now reporting a total of 227 deaths, including 64 children. At least 12 people have been killed in Israel, according to the Israel Defense Forces, as the tensions in the region continue to escalate.

CNN's Nic Robertson joins us now from Ashdod Israel.

And Nic, clearly, Prime Minister Netanyahu not backing down despite what Biden is telling him. Do we have a sense of how long this fighting could go on? It went for 50 days in 2014.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you know, I think there's a number of things at play. Obviously, the Prime Minister Netanyahu doesn't want to appear for domestic consumption that is sort of bowing and cow towering to President Biden. But it was interesting that when Netanyahu came out and spoke about that phone call, he called President Biden our friend. I think there's some importance in that.

You know, this evening, we've heard aircraft flying off into Gaza, the Israeli Air Force are saying that they're targeting Hamas commanders and weapon stores and rocket launchers this evening. But if you look over my shoulder here, you'll see the lights on in the apartment building behind me.

Now a couple of nights ago, not so many lights on there. We've seen more cars out on the street here. So I think the perception among Israelis is, this could be winding down. Some Israeli media are saying maybe it could be done. There's maybe could be a ceasefire in place by Friday.

I wouldn't want to get into speculation about a day. But I do think there's an element here, and again, in the population that feels this is winding down.

Tonight, so far, I don't want to jinx us here, but there haven't been any sirens in this town for incoming rockets from Gaza. At nightfall a few hours ago, yes, we were seeing them and seeing the intercept. But overnight tonight, not -- it hasn't happened, Jake.

[17:25:11]

TAPPER: All right, Nic Robertson, in Israel, thank you so much and stay safe my friend.

U.S. Secretary of State Tony Blinken just met with his Russian counterpart, Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov in Iceland ahead of a possible summit between President Biden and President Putin potentially earlier this summer.

Blinken telling Lavrov moments ago that the U.S. seeks a predictable stable relationship with Russia in the first meeting between a top Biden official and the Kremlin.

CNN's Kylie Atwood joins me now live from the State Department.

And Kylie, describe this conversation between Lavrov and Blinken. Was it was it civil? We saw some harsh words between Blinken and some Chinese officials a few months ago.

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, nothing like we saw with those Chinese officials back in Alaska a few a few months ago. This was an entirely civil interaction between the two men who have met before. But as you said, this is the first time that a Biden, a cabinet official is meeting with a senior Russian official.

And Secretary Blinken started out in saying what the Biden administration has repeatedly said over the last few months on the relationship with Russia that they want it to be predictable, that they want it to be stable, but they are going to take on Russia where there are differences.

Listen to what Secretary Blinken said when he was sitting at that table with Foreign Minister Lavrov.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: It's also no secret that we have our differences. And when it comes to those differences, as President Biden has also shared with President Putin, if Russia acts aggressively against us, our partners or our allies, we'll respond.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ATWOOD: Now, Secretary Blinken also spoke about the fact that he and the Biden administration want to work with Russia where there are issues where the two can work together. He cited a few areas of mutual interest, COVID, Afghanistan, Iran, just to name a few.

And when Foreign Minister Lavrov then spoke at the beginning of this meeting, he said that it's also in Russia's interest to work with the U.S. on some of these issues. We've heard this before Jake, right? There are a tremendous number of administrations that have sought resets with Russia. So it's really the details that will produce these results yet to be determined.

Of course, this was the remarks that they gave at the beginning of the meeting. We still really don't know what this meeting is going to look like. But it is going to set the tone for this possible President Putin, President Biden meeting that could take place in just a few weeks.

TAPPER: All right, to be continued.

Kylie Atwood at the State Department, thank you so much.

As the Secretary Blinken and Foreign Minister Lavrov meet on the sidelines of this Arctic Council meeting, we have a close up look now at Vladimir Putin's rapidly spreading military tentacles around the North Pole. An issue President Biden alluded to today as he pointed to strategic competition with Russia in the Arctic

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When nations try to game the system or tip the rules in their favor, it throws everything off balance. That's why we are so adamant that these areas of the world that are arteries of trade and shipping remain peaceful, whether that's the South China Sea, the Arabian Gulf, and, increasingly, the Arctic.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: And now we have proof of that increasing tensions. CNN's Frederik Pleitgen got a rare access to a Russian base in the North Pole.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The course due north flying for hours to Russia's northern most military installation. Moscow granted us a rare visit to its base on Franz Josef Land, a barren archipelago in the Arctic Ocean of which Russia believes is key to dominating the Arctic.

(On camera): This entire Air Base is covered in ice and yet the Russians have managed to extend the runway to a point that they can land even their heaviest aircraft here, including strategic bombers capable of carrying nuclear weapons.

(voice-over): The effort Moscow is making to upgrade its Arctic bases is massive. Inside the modern housing complex called a tree foil, the air commander confirms to me that even Russia's dangerous TU-95 strategic bombers, a plane similar in size to the U.S.'s B-52 had now operate out of the airfield here.

Of course, they can he says. Have a look. We can land all types of aircraft on this base. A chilling prospect for the U.S. and its allies considering Franz Josef Land is only about 160 miles east of NATO territory.

That's well within range of these powerful coastal defense rockets. The Russians also showed us they're capable of hitting ships more than 200 miles off the coast, a threat that worries the U.S.

[17:30:09]

ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: We have concerns about some of the increased military activities in the Arctic. That increases the dangers or prospects of accidents miscalculations.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): The main reason why the standoff between the U.S. and Russia is heating up in the Arctic is climate change. As polar ice melts, the region is becoming more accessible and Russia is moving fast to stake its claims. Much of that effort is led from here, the headquarters of the Northern Fleet in the closed military town of Severomorsk, which we also got access to.

Russia has been upgrading its fleet up here for years. Its flagship is the Peter the Great nuclear battle cruiser, outfitted with an array of weapons to hidden targets on sea and land and fight off planes and submarines.

(on-camera): Russia has a clear strategy up here in the Arctic, and essentially revolves around three different things. On the one hand, a very strong military then dominating the northern sea route and also tapping and exploiting natural resources.

(voice-over): And Russia is warning the U.S. and its allies not to mess with that plan.

SERGEY LAVROV, RUSSIAN FOREIGN MINISTER (through translation): It has been absolutely clear for everyone for a long time that this is our territory. This is our land. And we are responsible for our Arctic coast to be safe. Everything that our country does there is absolutely legitimate.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): Rhetoric that increasingly has the U.S. and Russia on a collision course in the high north, with Moscow so far in a stronger position.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PLEITGEN: But the Russians have been following for quite a while now, they put in place and unified Arctic command in 2014. And the Russians say, and this is a lot, that they've built in the past couple of years, more than 500 new military installations in the high north of Russia.

And one of the things that really helps them with that logistically is they also have a big fleet of nuclear icebreakers. It really helps them open up the Arctic economically and helps them build those military installations as well. So far from the U.S., there's been very little in the way of an answer, Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Frederick Pleitgen in Moscow with an incredible story. Thank you so much. Appreciate it.

We're standing by as the House of Representatives prepares to vote on whether to approve a bipartisan commission to investigate the January 6 insurrection. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:36:34]

TAPPER: And we're back with the politics lead, and debate right now on the floor of the House of Representatives and then a vote any minute on a bipartisan bill to create a bipartisan commission to investigate the January 6 Capitol attack. Even before the vote, however, Republican senators are coming out and voicing their opposition to the creation of the commission making the 60-vote threshold needed to pass the Senate, an even tougher target.

Let's bring in our analysts. So Nia-Malika, I'll start with you. Republican leaders told our Manu Raju that much of the calculation today is about protecting their messaging for midterms in 2022. But I do wonder about that, because Democrats are obviously going to say if they vote against it, Republicans are trying to cover something up.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, which is essentially what they are trying to do. I mean, this commission could not be more bipartisan, Nancy Pelosi gave in to everything that they wanted to, it's 50-50 in terms of the composition. Mitch McConnell would get to pick people on it. Kevin McCarthy would get to pick people on it.

But I think if you're a Republican, you don't want a bipartisan committee, because if you have a partisan committee, it's easier to say that partisan -- that committee is partisan and sort of dismiss it. But if you have a bipartisan committee of people you actually selected to be on that commission, it's much harder to kind of have this messaging that it's a democratic witch hunt which is I think what they want going into the midterms, you know, that they hope to, obviously, take over the majority in the Senate and the House.

But listen, this is, you know, I think an unsettling place to be for this country, given how horrific that attack was that we all saw on hold on our televisions that people were killed. There was violence, you know, against police officers and so it is unsettling. But listen, everything is politics and trying to win back a power if you're the Republicans.

TAPPER: So I just I just have to say I find it stunning. I've been in this town for a long time. I can't even tell you how many hearings there were and investigations into the attacks in Benghazi. And let me just say, as a journalist, I thought that that was fine. I had no problem with it. I wanted to know what happened. I wanted the members of Congress, the bipartisan committees to get to the bottom of what happened there.

Four people, four Americans died in Benghazi. At least five, and then if you had suicides, even more died in the Capitol insurrection, I find it unfathomable that Republicans are standing against an investigation into their own workplace, the attack.

JACKIE KUCINICH, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Not to mention, the Capitol Police who are been traumatized --

TAPPER: Oh my god.

KUCINICH: -- they're named.

TAPPER: Yes.

KUCINICH: Who didn't die, but who are going to be living with some of their injuries, both mentally and physically for the rest of their lives. But some -- one of the arguments that you're hearing Senate Republicans is that they're already doing investigations. They have reports that are coming from various committees. That said, this would be different because of the composition. They could take politics out of it.

And I think, you know, as has been the last four years, what's looming large here is former President Trump. Kevin McCarthy has been more overt about the fact that he thinks that the majority leads through -- goes through Mar-a-Lago. But if he -- because of his friend racing prowess, because of the percentage of the Republican base that gets them to where they need to be in terms of elections, they can't -- they don't feel like they can cross Trump and the chances that this investigation from a bipartisan commission would surface unfavorable information, is pretty high.

[17:40:06]

TAPPER: But let's go through that what you said, Nia-Malika, because I think it's important for the viewers to understand this, OK, because we had Congressman Peter Meijer on before and he talked about how he didn't like the initial presentation from Pelosi. But then Kevin McCarthy wrote a letter to Pelosi saying he wanted --there were three things he was demanding from her, she needed to change the composition of this commission.

So back in February, he called for an equal five to five ratio. And who gets to make appointments instead of seven to five, which is 75 in favor of Democrats. Kevin McCarthy wanted co-equal subpoena power. And Kevin McCarthy said he wanted the conclusions to be rendered by the Commission itself and not to be pre-determined.

He got all three of them.

HENDERSON: Yes.

TAPPER: He got all three of them. Pelosi, I mean, don't let her hear me say this, because she'll get mad. But she buckled, she gave.

HENDERSON: Yes, she did.

TAPPER: She gave in to everything Kevin McCarthy wanted.

HENDERSON: She gave -- yes, yes. And they still don't want this commission to come out because of all the things you said. You know, I think the guiding principle for Republicans is, what would Trump do? You remember those phrases, what would Jesus do for Republicans? It's what would Trump do. And what does Trump want them to do.

And in this case, it's quite clear that he doesn't want this out there. He doesn't want people testifying openly to get this in the public's zeitgeist and consciousness. Again, he would likely be subpoenaed, McCarthy would likely be subpoenaed as well, because of the conversations he had that --

TAPPER: That's if they don't testify willingly.

HENDERSON: Right. Right. Exactly, exactly.

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: It's a safe assumption, safe assumption. Yes.

HENDERSON: Right, right. So, yes, I mean, it is interesting, though, that she gave in and there's still no on this, but sort of not surprising because this is --

KUCINICH: But the timing would go all the way to the end of the year, when potentially more Republicans would say is that it could go into next year, and it could be used as a cudgel in he midterms.

TAPPER: But let me ask you, what about not supporting this commission? And then Nancy Pelosi says, OK, fine, I'm going to have a select committee, we're going to have open hearings, it's going to be -- she's basically threatening more of a spectacle. When she says, we're going to -- if you don't OK this, I'm just going to have a select committee. I mean, isn't that worse?

KUCINICH: You think but that's easier to dismiss as a partisan witch hunt.

HENDERSON: Yes.

TAPPER: OK.

HENDERSON: Yes.

KUCINICH: -- than this commission that would be half of -- half appointed by Republicans. They can staple Nancy Pelosi's name to this commission, just in theory and just dismiss it and, you know, let the partisanship run wild. It would -- it's going to be a lot easier to do that with a select committee than it would have been for this committee.

TAPPER: I guess if the purpose is not to find out what happened but to have politics. All right, Jackie, Nia-Malika, thanks to both of you.

Coming up next, new data about how well those COVID vaccines are working, what that might mean for states where vaccinations are lagging. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:47:10]

TAPPER: In our health lead, new evidence showing that the vaccines are indeed helping America bounce back. Seven states have already reached President Biden's July 4th goal of 70 percent of adults with at least one shot. In those seven states, CNN analysis found a 10 percent drop in COVID cases compared to states that have not reached the 70-percent mark.

In the 10 states where less than half of adults have at least one dose, COVID cases are 19 percent higher. And even vaccination rates are worrying experts throughout the country.

CNN's Senior Medical Correspondent Elizabeth Cohen joins us now to discuss. Elizabeth, what do these huge disparities in vaccination rates mean for the country?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Jake, I don't know about you, but I've had several friends who have said to me, well, Elizabeth, I'm vaccinated, well, what do I care if there's a bunch of people who aren't getting vaccinated. Here's why you care. People who are not vaccinated tend to live together, they tend to live in clusters. So they could be spreading the virus from one to another because they're not vaccinated. And then that's when variants can happen.

Every time the virus goes from Person A to Person B, it gives it a chance to mutate and to become a variant. And these variants sometimes can pose a problem for the vaccine, which then becomes a problem for all of us.

So let's look at a couple of places where we see these sort of pockets of lack of vaccination. So keep in mind that in the United States, the national average for fully vaccinated adults, 48 percent. But half the country, when you look at adults is fully vaccinated. But in Cameron Parish, Louisiana, not 48 percent, 12 percent.

McPherson County, South Dakota, 11 percent, Miller County, Arkansas, 9 percent. So you can see right there, those are just three examples of counties that have very low vaccination rates. That virus can just keep spreading and mutating in those areas. Jake?

TAPPER: Are the states, Elizabeth, with fewer than 50 percent of adults vaccinated, is it about vaccine hesitancy or is it about they don't have healthcare access, they don't know how to get the vaccine, they're underserved?

COHEN: You know, I think that it's probably both. I will tell you, Miller County, Arkansas that I just pointed out, we went to the folks who run vaccines.gov and they told us, look, wherever you live in Miller County, Arkansas, you are no more than a half an hour drive to a vaccine. And this is a very remote county with a very low vaccination rate. All you have to do is drive and a half an hour at the most.

But let's take a look at why people -- sort of the status right now of vaccination and the reasons for not getting vaccinated. Three in five American adults have had at least one shot. One in five Americans is resistant to vaccination.

This is according to a Kaiser Family Foundation survey, and one in five are not getting vaccinated, but it's a little bit unclear why they're not. Some of them may be like, I want to wait and see. I want to see if it makes, you know, other people sick when they get it. Others may say, gee, I don't want to miss a day of work if I get sick after my second shot for a day.

[17:50:08]

People probably have different reasons. And what the CDC needs to do is get to those reasons and get to those people. Jake?

TAPPER: All right, Elizabeth Cohen, very interesting. Thank you so much.

Let's bring in the Dean of Brown University School of Public Health. Dr. Ashish Jha. Dr. Jha, what is the best method, the best way to get these people vaccinated in the states where less than half of adults have had one vaccine?

DR. ASHISH JHA, DEAN, BROWN UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Yes, so Jake, thanks for having me on. As Elizabeth said, there are different reasons for different people. I mean, there is a small percentage of people who just really, really don't want it. We're going to have to work on that. But I think to me, that's a later issue. There are a lot of people who have questions. So part of it is just helping address questions people have.

It's definitely true that for a lot of people, the barrier is cost. And we know these vaccines are completely free. But first of all, not everybody understands that. Second, people can't afford to miss days of work. So it's really going to have to be a kind of an all of the above strategy of bringing vaccines to people, workplaces, giving people time off, help people understand the information about how the safety of these vaccines. It's the ground game, and it's going to be a lot of work.

TAPPER: Do you think that so far the campaign to get people vaccinated has not sufficiently focused on people who don't log on to the internet, don't watch TV, don't watch news, don't speak fluent English, don't have immediate access to the health care system? Because it seems to me that's a lot of people in this country, the groups that I just talked about.

JHA: Absolutely. That's completely right. And if you think about it, you know, those -- the policymakers, they tend to focus on people like themselves, who do have access to the internet, who can do the work of figuring out how to get an appointment online. We have just not done enough work. On the other 40 percent of adults who have not yet gotten a shot, really to understand what's holding them back, and how to make it easy.

And the issues around not having access to health care is really big. You know, it's not the kind of thing where they'll just go to their doctor's office and the doctor will say, she had vaccinated. So there's a lot of work to be done in reaching those people and helping them understand that vaccines are good for them and their families.

TAPPER: The Kaiser Family Foundation published a poll last week that found among Hispanic adults who have not yet been vaccinated, they're about twice as likely as white adults to say they want to get a vaccine as soon as possible. What should the U.S. be doing to reach more people who might not speak English as their native language?

JHA: Yes, absolutely. I mean, they've been some efforts, a lot of the national outreach programs are in Spanish and English. Of course, that's important. But beyond just having the programs be available, you really need to tap into people who are community leaders, who understand what the experience is like, and this means obviously, people who speak the language.

You've got to have a real kind of local approach with people who are proficient. And Spanish speakers, Latinos is one group, but there are also other immigrant groups where they don't speak English. Again, the key here is going to be finding trusted voices in those community and having them amplify the message and be part of getting people vaccinated.

TAPPER: Right, people who only speak, you know, I mean, their -- this is the great American melting pot, so many different groups that might not speak English all that well. It has been one week, Dr. Jha, since the vaccination rollout for teens, 12 to 15 began, and it's going, quote, and better than expected, according to pediatrician, Dr. Lisa Costello, she says, people are hopeful, hopeful. We saw this brisk uptake among adults too. But now vaccination rates among adults are starting to fall off. Are you worried this might happen with kids too?

JHA: Yes, I do expect a similar pattern, right? There's about 15 million, 16 million kids in that 12 to 15 range. I expect that the 5 million kids are going to get vaccinated reasonably quickly, that's kind of the pent up demand, then it's going to slow down over the summer. But as we get into summer camps, but as we start thinking about the fall, I do expect another pickup.

And then again, there's going to be a group of parents and kids who are going to be less sure and be, you know, kind of less willing to do this and we're going to have to do outreach and all the same kind of work that we've had to do with adults. This is what happens with vaccination campaigns. I mean, you know, we've seen this with measles, we've seen with others.

TAPPER: Dr. Ashish Jha, thanks for joining us as always. Appreciate it. Coming up next, Peloton is now rolling out a new fix for its recalled treadmills as the company loses hundreds of millions of dollars.

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TAPPER: In our money lead, Peloton finally came up with a way to make its treadmills safer, it's a new software fix that locks the machine after 45 seconds of inactivity, and requires a four-digit code to use it again. This comes after Peloton recalled 125,000 of its treadmills this month.

They're blamed for one child's death and 70 other injuries. Since the recall, its voluntary owners do not have to send the treadmills back and that's where the new software comes in. Peloton is suffering a huge financial hit, by the way, the recall is costing the company about $165 million in the current quarter.

Finally for me, thank you in our pop culture lead, we just learned that my new novel. "The Devil May Dance" is going to debut on the New York Times bestseller list for fiction.

The book takes place in 1962 Rat Pack Hollywood. It features Charlie and Margaret Marder, the heroes from my previous effort, "The Hellfire Club", you can pick it up in bookstores, order an autographed copy at JakeTapper.com. Thank you so much from the bottom of my heart.

Follow me on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter at JakeTapper. You can tweet the show at TheLeadCNN. Our coverage continues right now with one Mr. Wolf Blitzer who is right next door in "THE SITUATION ROOM."