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The Lead with Jake Tapper
More Than 1,000 Migrants Have Been Allowed Into The U.S.; Interview With Representative Sheila Jackson Lee (D-TX) About Migrant Crisis At The Southern Border; President Biden Speaks With French President Macron Over Submarine Deal; Multiple Lawmakers Stormed Out Of Classified State Department Briefing On Afghanistan; Interview With Representative Michael McCaul (R-TX) About FBI Concerns Over Terrorist Networks In Afghanistan; Hackers Steal Data From Site That Hosts Far- Right Proud Boys; Daycare Providers Struggling To Hire And Retain Workers. Aired 5-6p ET
Aired September 22, 2021 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: We're live in Del Rio, Texas, where a different crisis is unfolding. Thousands of people, mostly Haitians, waiting at the border to be processed by U.S. officials. Today CNN has learned the Department of Homeland Security is allowing some Haitian migrants into the U.S. even though the Biden administration said it would expel most back to their home countries.
In moments, I'll talk to a top lawmaker who is decrying the treatment of migrants at the border by the Biden administration and just got out of a meeting at the White House.
But first, CNN's Rosa Flores will take a look at the unprecedented methods Republican Texas Governor Greg Abbott is using to deter migrants from crossing into the state.
ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As thousands of migrants wait in a makeshift camp under the Del Rio International Bridge to get processed by U.S. immigration authorities, a miles-long steel barrier of Texas state trooper vehicles has gone up. To deter the up to 30,000 Haitians CNN has been told could be heading towards the border.
GOV. GREG ABBOTT (R), TEXAS: If you are targeting Texas to come to, we're going to show up in force and shut down the border.
FLORES: Tonight, the camp beginning to dwindle in size. The fate of the migrants still there uncertain. Some are returned to their home countries. Others, like Rolph Luis (PH) from Haiti, are allowed to stay.
(On-camera): So he feels well that he is able to stay. Blessed?
(Voice-over): One by one, migrants under the bridge, many of whom officials say are Haitian are loaded onto buses and transported to U.S. immigration processing facilities.
ALEJANDRO MAYORKAS, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: We do enforce our immigration laws. Those are not only the laws of humanitarian relief, but the laws of accountability. For those who seek to enter illegally, and do not have a claim for relief under law.
FLORES: Some are expelled to Haiti and other countries under a pandemic health rule. And nearly a thousand have been dropped off by Border Patrol at this nonprofit refuge pending their immigration cases in the past three days, according to the group's director.
TIFFANY BURROW, VAL VERDER BORDER HUMANITARIAN COALITION: This is a tremendous amount, like nothing we've ever seen.
FLORES: That's where we met Luis, a Haitian who says he and his wife waited under the bridge for about a week.
(On-camera): What did immigration tell you? He says that immigration told him that if he didn't appear in court that he could get deported.
(Voice-over): His destination is New York.
(On-camera): Did anybody tell you why some Haitians can stay and some Haitians have to be deported back to Haiti? He says that his understanding is that because he had an address, a family member that he could contact in the United States, that he was allowed to stay.
(Voice-over): CNN has not been able to confirm Luis' experience applies to everyone. The next stop for many of these migrants, a nearby gas station where vans and buses take them to cities across the nation.
(On-camera): He's going to Miami?
(Voice-over): That's where we met Peter Simerin (PH) who is from Haiti, too.
(On-camera): Bye, Peter, thank you.
(Voice-over): As he says he's afraid of being deported to Haiti, he has to run. His van has arrived. It's what life has been like for these migrants recently. A hurry up and wait into an uncertain future.
FLORES: The Biden administration upping the number of deportation flights to seven a day. Now that could include very soon not just Haiti but also Chile and Brazil. These are some of the transition countries where Haitians have been living for the past few years. Now not all of the migrants are being deported. We have seen, and you saw in that piece, that some of the migrants are being released into communities. We know from the local nonprofit organization in the past three days, nearly 1,000 migrants have been released.
And Jake, that doesn't include the thousands of migrants who are being transported to other cities in Texas for processing by U.S. immigration authorities -- Jake.
TAPPER: All right. Rosa Flores for us, doing great work in Del Rio, Texas, for us. Thank you so much.
Let's talk about this with Democratic Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee from Texas. She serves on the House Homeland Security Committee.
Congresswoman, thanks so much for joining us. So Senate majority leader Chuck Schumer called the deportations of Haitian migrants a continuation of, quote, "hateful and xenophobic Trump policies," unquote. Schumer is talking about Title 42, that's a Trump-era policy allowing for immediate deportation for some migrants due to the COVID pandemic. You've also called for the Biden administration to end that policy.
Did you get any assurances today when you met with Biden administration officials that they're going to take action on stopping that policy?
REP. SHEILA JACKSON LEE (D-TX): Well, Jake, thank you first of all for having me. Why don't we start from point A and that is let us change the narrative. The narrative is that we have a human rights crisis at the border. I am a Texan. We have about 2,000 miles, a little under 2,000 miles of border, and most of that border is well protected with legal points of entry and it operates appropriately.
But what has happened is because of the Trump relic of Title 42 and the demonizing of immigrants throughout governor, Governor Abbott, who's look toward the next election, we can't seem to really know how to handle this surge.
I think the Biden administration is very eager to adhere to that we are a land of immigrants and a land of laws. And that is what Secretary Mayorkas was saying. That he has the ability to provide security of the border, but also, I think, our meeting with a number of officials in the White House got them to understand that, one, Title 42 is discretionary. Even DHS said that the medical expertise that was used there may not have been that accurate. And again, it is a relic of the Trump administration.
Here's what we want to see. A moratorium and/or suspension of Title 42 to be able to use the resources that have been sent to the border, meaning personnel, to determine and do as migrants did in other surges in 2014, surges in the spring of 2021, to be given the determination of who could get an asylum appointment, who could get in court because they were families. We know some will have to be removed at some point, but when you have a narrative of the largest deportation in months or years, that does not fit favorably.
That is not the administration. I know their heart is different. We saw that. We feel that we're going to see some changes, and we're going to also understand, Jake, that as the Homeland Security has said, the migrants are not national security threats. TAPPER: So the president of the NAACP was in that meeting with you
today, and yesterday he came out with a scathing statement, quote, "President Biden is claiming on the world stage that America is back, but back for who? The humanitarian crisis happening under this administration on the southern border disgustingly mirrors some of the darkest moments in America's history." Darkest moments in America's history. Do you agree with that?
JACKSON LEE: Well, civil rights leaders are respected. They are our partners. This was a meeting of the members of the Congressional Black Caucus. I'm an officer of that organization. Our chairwoman is Chairwoman Beatty. These were chairs and leaders of the Democratic caucus as well. Here's where we are. One, we take no backseat to the dastardly actions that we saw, the intolerant reminiscence of slavery, the pain of looking at that action, and maybe even feeling the pain in your own soul.
So we're not really stepping away from that. We know, however, that there are actions at the border that don't reflect that, that the border is large. But I will tell you this. We made it very clear that the investigation must be held thoroughly and quick, and individuals must be accountable. We already know that those involved will not be anywhere near that area at all. The horse detail has been an institution but I've never in my 27 years of the United States Congress ever seen that and I've been to the border many, many times.
We're on the road to changing this, and that reference to color, to being black, and our history of slavery, we cannot have that as a narrative of immigration. It must be erased. We're dealing with Afghan allies, we're dealing with migrants from north -- central -- from the northern triangle and now Haitians. We must do it right.
TAPPER: So, Congresswoman, as you know, a lot of the Haitians that are crossing the border have -- they didn't just immediately flee Haiti this year because of the earthquake or the political violence. They've been in Central and South America for years, many of them. Chile, Brazil, Panama, Colombia. Some for more than a decade after the 2010 earthquake. They're coming now to the U.S. because of the deteriorating economy in many of those countries.
Does that change, do you think, the urgency with which the U.S. should admit these individuals, these migrants, into the United States given that they're not fleeing an immediate occurrence?
JACKSON LEE: Jake, I'm so glad you asked that question, that you posed that question. Because that's my legal interpretation. First of all, you're right. They've been in South and Central America for at least a decade after the 2010 earthquake. And many of them did not become citizens of the countries that they're in, and there was an economic collapse. Some of them do represent that they have been pushed out. I don't want to give that -- that I've documented it that they're not having any place to stay.
And, of course, we know that Haiti is a collapsed society at this time. Assassination, earthquake, violence, and so they are stateless. This is a humanitarian crisis that the world knows about. When people become stateless, they are refugees of such that they have to find a place that can welcome them.
And so I think this is an opportunity for the Biden administration to distinguish itself. To deal with the U.S. Department of State and to be able to craft a response to individuals that have not been determined to be a national security threat at all and can be moved forward under that premise but given access to asylum and other immigration processes, you know, families and children, unaccompanied children are being treated differently.
JACKSON LEE: And really ease the time at the border. We have a pathway forward. We've done it when we had the migrants from the northern triangle. We've done it in 2014 when I was down at the border. I've been at the border at every crisis. And I will be there here as well. We believe in human rights and civil rights. That's what Haitians deserve.
Jake, we can get it done. The Biden administration has been really acting very strongly in the aftermath of the earthquake. We believe we're going to be responded to by this meeting. We're ready to roll up our sleeves, we're going to get a new protocol for the Haitian migrants.
TAPPER: Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee of Texas, thank you so much. Appreciate your time today.
JACKSON LEE: Thank you for having me.
TAPPER: His presidency is on the line. President Biden desperately trying to keep Democrats together to get his agenda passed and save his presidency.
Plus, the president is also trying to make nice with French President Emmanuel Macron after a deal left France fuming.
Stay with us.
TAPPER: We're back with our "Politics Lead." Right now President Biden is meeting with key progressive Democrats at the White House as nearly his entire domestic agenda hangs in the balance. Both the $1.2 trillion bipartisan infrastructure deal and the $3.5 trillion budget reconciliation bill. Both of them are at risk of collapsing.
Let's discuss. And Kasie, let me start with you. I have not seen conservatives railing against the budget deal the same way that I have seen conservatives, for example, going after Obamacare in the past. You know what I mean? So do you think that the moderate opposition to it, whether it's Gottheimer and other moderate Democrats in the House or Manchin and Sinema in the Senate, do you think that that's truly out of principle? They actually think this is going to be bad for the economy? Or are they afraid of being attacked?
KASIE HUNT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Yes, I'm not sure I agree with you 100 percent, Jake. I take it -- it's not necessarily --
TAPPER: That is not allowed.
HUNT: I know it's your show.
TAPPER: No. Go ahead. Tell me.
HUNT: I think that they know, that -- and people are already talking about, you know, Congresswoman Jayapal was on with our colleague Brianna Keilar this morning, and she said that Connor Lamb and other moderates are working with them, operatives on Twitter are saying we're going to clip and save that, put that in campaign ads because they're helping them spend this $3.5 trillion.
I mean, I think that the moderates are afraid that if they vote for this they're going to lose. And I think Republicans are eager to jump on that. I mean, there are more dynamics at play of course but fundamentally I still think that's at the root of the issue.
TAPPER: Do you agree? I mean, as the Republican at the table? I mean, do you agree that this would be -- I mean, I just come from a belief at this point that nobody cares about deficits anymore. And that if you are voting to spend a lot of money on the American people, they're not going to care. I mean, maybe I'm wrong.
AMANDA CARPENTER, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR FOR SEN. TED CRUZ: Well, I do think there are some people that still care about this. But I don't think you see a lot of Republican opposition at the moment because there's so much Democratic infighting. I mean, why get in the way of that? If Democrats are threatening to take a Democratic spending bill, by all means, go ahead.
CARPENTER: I mean, it really is sort of hilarious to sit and watch. Democrats are trying to spend trillions of dollars and cannot figure out a way to do it. It's amazing.
MARIA CARDONA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: There's too many ways to do it is the problem. But yes.
CARPENTER: But you still win. Joe Manchin, whatever you want, and take the win.
CARDONA: Well, so --
CARPENTER: But hey, I won't advise you guys anymore.
TAPPER: Yes. CARDONA: That goes to what I think is actually going to happen. Look,
what we've seen is seriously (Speaking in Foreign Language). I mean, that's what it should be called because --
TAPPER: Yes. Help us out here.
CARDONA: The telenovela.
TAPPER: A telenovela.
CARDONA: The soap opera for the Democrats.
CARPENTER: Drama, got it.
CARDONA: Yes. Right. Drama. Right. Infighting. All that.
TAPPER: It is messy.
CARDONA: It is messy. Absolutely. But here's what I think is going to have a happy ending because every Democrat there understands what's at stake. While the moderates might believe that they will be in peril if they vote for this because they'll be attacked by Republicans, imagine if we don't get anything done? What is the argument to go to the American people to say, this is why we deserve your vote again when we didn't get anything done?
So I think at the end of the day, they understand that everything is on the line. Not just for them but for President Biden as well.
TAPPER: Yes. Well, speaking of President Biden, sources tell CNN that President Biden is basically saying to his aides, like, you know, stand back. I've got this. Like no one knows how to do this better than me. That was definitely his pitch. But do you think that's true?
AYESHA RASCOE, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, NPR: Well, I don't know that no one knows how to do this better than him, but he has had a lot of experience working with Congress. I mean, this is what he's done. Like his whole life.
RASCOE: I mean, even looking back at like U.N. funding and stuff like that. I was researching on that. I saw him, you know, making deals with Jesse Helms back in the day. This is what he has done. Right? He's come up with compromises that everyone wasn't happy but they were able to get something done to fund the U.N. in the '90s. This is what he does. And so this is his time to try to shine.
I don't know if he'll get it done but I think for the reasons that you said, it's because they've got to do something.
HUNT: So I will say a couple of things. One, Democrats in Congress are counting on him to deliver here, because they know that they've got this impasse and they need the White House to weigh in and they honestly probably wish he had engaged a little earlier because now we're at this point where there's all this infighting. But the other piece is, one of the challenges they have is that the president's approval numbers are worse than they were six weeks ago or over the summer.
I mean, Afghanistan, the sort of chaos that has engulfed us in the last couple of months. The reality that people feel like we're living in a second COVID year. They are struggling to send their kids back to school. They're still masked. We're all still struggling with childcare and all these other issues.
And then there's the question of the economy. I'm starting to heat from members of Congress in the Midwest who are saying things are really, really bad. I think that Iowa poll underscored what was going on there. And if --
TAPPER: Showed Biden with very low approval ratings in Iowa. Down to 20 points.
HUNT: Exactly. Exactly. It was a really big swing in a very reliable poll. And I think that's what Republicans are essentially waiting for. And Democrats know that there's an inflationary risk with this $3.5 trillion plan. All of that means that Joe Biden has a little less political capital to spend with these people.
HUNT: Right? So that I think is a challenge as well. But to underscore your point, I think they know at the end of the day, if they don't get this done, that's them.
TAPPER: Yes. And speaking of infighting, so another thing that's going on that's very interesting, President George W. Bush who, generally speaking, has remained out of the political fray since he left office, he's holding a fundraiser for Liz Cheney for her re-election. She is obviously being challenged by any number of MAGA folks in Wyoming for her House seat now that Donald Trump has put his sights on her.
Does that surprise you that the Bush team, and it's not just him, it's Karen Hughes, Karl Rove, they're getting the band back together -- do you think that that ultimately will help her?
CARPENTER: I do think it's interesting that she's reaching back to other Republicans to show people this is what the party used to look like. I think Trump would be eager to have a Bush-Trump matchup but the way this is really being framed, it is about January 6th. It's about democracy. You saw George Bush speak about this at the 9/11 Memorial in a way that he has never done before. And what is interesting about this race is that Liz Cheney's opponent, who used to be a Cheney supporter, has not said much about January 6th.
Liz Cheney is eager to talk about this. She serves on the committee. She wants to make this a test. Her opponent is a lawyer and somehow got Donald Trump's endorsement without having to speak on this topic, and so I will very much look forward to this debate because it will have national repercussions and my money is on Liz Cheney.
HUNT: She wants to run for president but she's got to win her House seat back first.
CARDONA: And I don't know how much pull Bush will have because of the base but I do think --
TAPPER: I think he raised a lot of money for her.
CARDONA: Well, exactly. I was going to say the money piece, what you said about him not getting into the fray, but the fact that he did in his remarks on the memorial for September 11th I think were kind of jaw-dropping. And I also think it can make a difference for independents, for suburban women, for all of those who understand what is at stake.
And going back to the Democratic telenovela, I hope that these Democrats understand, let's get this done cleanly because really what's at stake not just for the midterms but for the White House. You have a party who wants to get something done for the American people. A party who doesn't believe in democracy, who wants to take, you know, voting rights away, who wants to tell women what to do.
TAPPER: And Ayesha, it's not just George W. Bush, we should point out that former House speakers, Republicans John Boehner and Paul Ryan have also given money to Liz Cheney since all this started.
RASCOE: Yes. But it's not clear that the Republican Party is their party anymore. It's the Trump party. And so a lot of these debates. Now they may help Liz Cheney but ultimately, the party has moved away from there. It's not that time anymore. It's Trump's time.
TAPPER: All right. Thanks one and all. Appreciate it.
Coming up next, new reporting a heated meeting about Afghan evacuations. Why some lawmakers stormed out of the room.
Stay with us.
TAPPER: In the "World Lead," today President Biden tried to smooth over his diplomatic dust-up with French President Emmanuel Macron over that U.S.-U.K. deal with Australia, for nuclear-powered submarines. That agreement of course cut France out of its own submarine deal with Australia and about $65 billion.
In a joint statement after today's call, the U.S. and France said the leaders, quote, "agreed that the situation would have benefited from open consultations." Translation? Sorry, or pardon, as they say in France, for the lack of communication.
Let's bring in CNN's Kylie Atwood.
Kylie, France pulled its ambassadors to the U.S. and Australia because of this deal. They may be sending them back soon, but France is still out $65 billion.
KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: That's right. I mean, I think on diplomatic terms, things are kind of getting back to normal. You had the United States essentially admit that they made a mistake in not letting the French know ahead of time that this was coming. The French are sending their ambassador back to the United States. President Biden and President Macron are going to meet next week.
But the French aren't saying that this is completely in the rear-view mirror. A senior French diplomat told me that things are going to still be tense until there are some formal conversations about what to do about those billions of dollars that France is now out because of this submarine deal that they've lost.
TAPPER: And Kylie, separately we're also hearing of a classified briefing that got kind of heated. A briefing that the State Department gave lawmakers on efforts to evacuate U.S. citizens from Afghanistan. What are you hearing about what happened behind closed doors?
ATWOOD: Well, listen. Lawmakers were tremendously frustrated this morning when they received this classified briefing from the State Department, from the Pentagon, from the Department of Homeland Security about Afghanistan, about these ongoing evacuation efforts. And briefers weren't able to provide them with answers to basic questions, such as how many Americans exactly are still in Afghanistan, how many Afghans at risk exactly are still in Afghanistan and want to leave the country.
Now as a result, lawmakers on both sides of the aisle, we should note, Jake, stormed out of the room because they felt like they weren't getting the detailed information that they needed to really understand what else needs to be done here with regard to the U.S. evacuation efforts from Afghanistan.
Now State Department officials say that there are still about 100 Americans still in Afghanistan who have to leave, even though they've said about 75 or more have gotten out in recent weeks. They say that number is fluid because some Americans are coming forth and saying they want to leave after not having made up their minds earlier -- Jake.
TAPPER: Yes, 100 American citizens, we should note. That doesn't include the legal permanent residents.
ATWOOD: That's right.
TAPPER: The green card holders. Kylie Atwood, thank you so much. Appreciate it.
Today the FBI director told Congress that the U.S. departure from Afghanistan is a top concern for his agency with terrorist networks more able to reunite and possibly plan future attacks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTOPHER WRAY, FBI DIRECTOR: We are, of course, concerned that the -- that there will be an opportunity for a safe haven to be re-created there. Most importantly, we're concerned that foreign terrorist organizations will have an opportunity to reconstitute, plot, inspire in a space that's much harder for us to collect intelligence and operate against than was the case previously.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Let's bring in Republican Congressman Mike McCaul. He was at that Homeland Security Committee hearing where the FBI director raised the alarm. He's also the ranking Republican on the House Foreign Affairs Committee.
Congressman, let's start there with this -- these potential threats that could re-emerge in Afghanistan.
REP. MICHAEL MCCAUL (R-TX): Sure.
TAPPER: Today marks three weeks since the U.S. has been formally gone from the country. And obviously, no one seems to disagree with the idea that, of course, without the U.S. there, there's a greater threat that al Qaeda or ISIS-K or whatever could reconstitute, become a bigger threat. The argument that President Biden and his director of National Intelligence and others make is not that that threat doesn't exist but just that it's greater in other parts of the world like Somalia or Yemen, Syria or Iraq. Do you disagree?
MCCAUL: Well, I think the Sahel Region in Africa is a big issue. I think China is a big focus for the administration. It should. I was with the British prime minister today talking about the agreement with Australia that you talked about with France to get nuclear submarines, and to the South China Sea. But let's be honest. You've got the Taliban. It's the Taliban five, the prime minister, president, this guy who harbored bin Laden. Haqqani Network is the number two guy in this administration.
And they never cut their ties with al Qaeda. It rivals the numbers pre-9/11. The difference is now they've inherited a cache of weapons and cash. And it makes it a very dangerous situation. I think -- you know, look, when I chaired Homeland, we had threat briefings every month. External operations from ISIS and the caliphate. It's going to take them a little time to reconstitute, but it's just a matter of time before they come back to try to hit the United States.
TAPPER: On August 29th, just days before the U.S. left Afghanistan, the Pentagon botched a drone strike that killed 10 Afghan civilians, including seven children. U.S. intelligence basically got it wrong. They were following the wrong car. It did not belong to an ISIS-K operative. Instead the strike killed Samari Ahmadi, a father of seven. He spent 15 years working for a U.S. aid group helping to feed the poor.
Do you think that that botched operation will make the U.S. hesitant to strike again in a similar situation where they think there's going to be a terrorist threat? How do you see intelligence gathering moving forward?
MCCAUL: The big point here is that they botched it even with us being present in Afghanistan.
MCCAUL: Think about our military completely out, Title 10 Forces, Title 50 Intelligence out of Afghanistan. How in the world can we conduct anything along these lines if we had it botched when we were in country? So as we remove -- have removed ourselves from Afghanistan, when Bagram shut down, a key national security asset, those were our eyes and ears not only for Afghanistan but China, Russia and Iran.
That is very important. And we've lost that capability. The Chinese will most likely move in with their belt and road and potentially take that over. We have no embassy and our eyes and ears are -- you know, this over the horizon theory, I believe, is really just, you know, it's a pipe dream.
TAPPER: Over the horizon is the theory that the U.S. can conduct intelligence operations and conduct strikes like this from different countries. That's what over the horizon means. It's like police- involved shooting. It's a term that the government uses but no one else in real life would.
I want to get your reaction to what Kylie just reported that the Biden administration did not give, I don't know, maybe they were not able to give or maybe they're reluctant to share the number of U.S. citizens, legal permanent residents, Afghan allies, who have special immigrant visas still in Afghanistan, still trying to get out. What's going on? Why are they reluctant to share that information, and do you sense that they have an urgency to get them out that needs to be there?
MCCAUL: Well, you know, are they not being transparent or do they not know the answer to that questions?
TAPPER: Those are the options, I guess.
MCCAUL: And so -- yes, that's right. And the briefing, intelligence briefing, everybody walked out. You know, the fact is, I believe there's still hundreds of Americans still left behind enemy lines. A majority of the interpreters that you and I talked about for so long did not get out.
TAPPER: Yes. MCCAUL: And now I'm getting new reports of, you know, executions,
beheadings of their families and themselves. Horrific stories. I don't think they know all the answers, quite honestly. The last report I got in was that there are servicemen who have their families over there, about 125 of them, and we can't get them.
TAPPER: What do you men servicemen?
MCCAUL: They're Afghans who served with us.
TAPPER: Oh, Afghan allies. Special immigrant visas.
MCCAUL: Who signed up to work in the United States Military.
MCCAUL: And they have family left behind in Afghanistan. They can't get them out of Afghanistan. They are certainly, Jake, going to be in the bull's eye.
TAPPER: And State Department officials say it's going to take weeks to get routine commercial flights back returning to Kabul which would obviously help the evacuation process if there is one that's allowed to happen. How worried are you?
MCCAUL: Well, we're at the mercy of the Taliban, yes. And those flights have been held up in, you know, in Sharif. You know, they --
TAPPER: Mazar-i-Sharif in the north.
MCCAUL: They only got like two flights out of there. I think HKIA, they've left a few flights out. Part of the problem is countries accepting them. You know, Doha is the main place where they're flying to. But the longer they are left behind enemy lines, American citizens, interpreters, you know, the girls we talked about, I just worry about their overall safety.
It could have been done better. As you know, I am conducting an investigation. We've hired an investigator to look into what happened.
MCCAUL: And how did this get so wrong over the last five months.
TAPPER: Congressman Mike McCaul, thanks so much for being here. We really appreciate it. Always good to see you.
MCCAUL: Thanks, Jake.
TAPPER: So much for hiding behind your keyboard. A hacking group claims to have stolen data from far-right Web sites. We'll explain the fallout, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [17:41:14]
TAPPER: In our "Tech Lead," far-right groups that teamed up for the deadly insurrection on January 6th may have thought they had found a safe place to hide and chat online. But apparently not. The hacking group Anonymous, which has supported WikiLeaks in the past, just announced they stole tons of data from a site that hosts extremist and racist groups such as the Proud Boys and others.
Joining us now, CNN's brand-new cybersecurity reporter Sean Lyngaas with his first appearance ever on CNN.
Welcome. Good to have you here. So how big was this hack and who out there should be worried about the information getting out?
SEAN LYNGAAS, CNN CYBERSECURITY CORRESPONDENT: It was big, Jake. It was 150, at least 150 gigabytes, which is pretty much all of Epic's customers. So it was -- they really spared no one in taking the data. In terms of who should be worried, it's not just Epic's customers who, as you mentioned, include some far-right extremist groups but also ordinary people who had their data swept up in this breach.
The reason for that is Epic also collected public information on the internet, e-mail addresses from normal people, and that, too, was breached. So some of those people are also demanding answers.
TAPPER: And these far-right groups were already, I would guess, fairly paranoid about, you know, the government surveillance after these -- those platforms helped facilitate the deadly violent insurrection on January 6th by allowing the communication.
Are there different, darker places on the Web that they might now turn to?
LYNGAAS: There always are. And in this case, experts I've talked to told me that these folks could be looking to go to Web hosters that are outside of North America and Europe. Maybe in Russia. There's plenty of Web sites that are willing to host extremist groups and criminals so they'll just probably look to go there.
TAPPER: And has Epic, the company that hosts these Web sites, have they responded to this breach?
LYNGAAS: They have. They've downplayed it. They mentioned that some of the data was already public and that don't necessarily have an obligation to protect that. They said that they have invested more cybersecurity protections and they've apologized to their customers because, as you mentioned on top, they had an obligation to sort of provide anonymity. That was what they were billing themselves as and the veil has been pulled off on that.
TAPPER: All right. Sean Lyngaas, thank you so much. Look forward to having you come on to break a lot of news for us.
LYNGAAS: Thank you, Jake. TAPPER: A growing problem for many parents. Childcare. We're going to
dig into the rising crisis and the lack of -- I'm sorry, childcare workers. That's next. Stay with us.
TAPPER: Topping our "National Lead" today, hiring crisis at daycares across the United States. It could mean your childcare costs are about to increase. That is if you can find childcare at all.
Take a look at this. Most industries took a big pandemic hit. The overall U.S. workforce is down 3.5 percent. Retail jobs still down nearly 2 percent. Bars and restaurants down nearly 8 percent. But for daycares, the loss is 12 percent. 12 percent of the workforce. More than 125,000 daycare workers, poof, gone, despite rebounding since last year's pandemic shutdown.
So if demand for childcare is high, why are these skilled workers not returning to their jobs at daycare centers?
I spoke earlier today to Heather Mossefin. She runs her own daycare center in Clyde, Ohio, a small town west of Cleveland.
TAPPER: So, Heather, let me start by saying, full transparency, we're taping this right now during naptime at your daycare because this is the only time you can do it. You're so short staffed and pretty much alone taking care of all of the kids. You have told me that I can talk in this voice, though, without fear of waking them up because you're in the other room so I don't want anybody worried about that. But tell us how bad it is for you right now. how difficult this is?
HEATHER MOSSEFIN, OWNER, HEATHER'S FAMILY HOME CHILDCARE IN CLYDE, OHIO: Well, I usually have no problems getting even summertime help. But this is actually worse than what it was last year. I have tried indeed. I've tried everything possible. Ads, flyers to hire. It's very hard. Everywhere is hiring. Unfortunately, again, being a home daycare, I'm just a small business so I can't offer, you know, $12, $15, $20 an hour like bigger companies can.
And I have been shamed on Facebook, actually, for it. People laughing at the Facebook ads and everything else.
I was paying minimum wage. I bumped it up to $9 an hour. And just recently up to $9.25 an hour, which is, you know, 45 cents more than our minimum wage here in Ohio.
TAPPER: How many employees did you have before the pandemic? Let's say in 2019, how many employees did you have?
MOSSEFIN: I had four to five. TAPPER: Have your former employees told you why they left?
MOSSEFIN: Yes. One, unfortunately, had an autoimmune disease that dealt with her heart so any type of illness or sick, especially having a daycare, could put her at risk. Her big fear was getting COVID. Some of the other employees left for higher paying jobs. That was the other thing. And it's -- I just can't pay it.
TAPPER: Right. So pay is a huge problem. Why are daycare providers typically paid so little when daycare costs are not cheap for many families?
MOSSEFIN: Well, putting it in perspective, I have four children of my own, and a grandbaby. So when my children were younger, daycare costs are outrageous if you have more than one child, honestly. That was part of the whole thing on me doing daycare. For us to have three children at the time in daycare, I mean, it was costing, just about if I was to work a full-time job here in my town, my whole paycheck. And I get it.
Before I got remarried, I was a single mom of, you know, two in daycare and unfortunately it takes a lot so I try to keep my costs low and, you know, sometimes I do a case-by-case where it's a little less cost because of parents meeting, you know, the care. Here we have (INAUDIBLE), which is one of my main companies that I have kids here with. But there is fast food places, and even fast food places, you know, $12, $15 an hour, but add in costs of daycare on top of all your other bills, it's hard for parents to pay that.
MOSSEFIN: So I do what I can.
TAPPER: No, I hear. I understand. Other than the individual who left because she has a compromised immune system and can't do this kind of work anymore, especially when there's not a vaccine for kids in -- as young as the ones you take care of, what do you think has changed in the United States to make it so tough for childcare? Is it depressed wages? Is it people reconsidering their life choices and deciding they don't want to work in daycare or that maybe they don't want to work at all? What are you experiencing?
MOSSEFIN: Well, I believe that one of my things is, unfortunately, and, of course, my own opinion, is that people really don't want to work right now. They have benefits, sometimes even better than working people, trying to make a living on unemployment. And I lost a lot of parents that are still on unemployment. And without the kids, then, of course, it's like a pyramid effect or a domino effect, however you want to say it.
It all rolls downhill to where, you know, I, at the very most, I am charging, you know, $3 an hour per child. And that doesn't really count for much weekly. And then trying to find an employee that wants to work at, you know, $9.25 an hour with, you know, no sign-on bonus or anything like that. It just kind of seems hard anymore.
TAPPER: Yes. Heather, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us today.
MOSSEFIN: Yes. No problem.
TAPPER: And I made it through without waking up any of the kids. So that's a huge achievement by me. So thank you so much.
MOSSEFIN: Yes, you did. Yes.
TAPPER: Thousands of people forced to evacuate with a volcano expected to continue erupting for days. That story next.
TAPPER: In our "World Lead," a massive volcanic eruption in the Canary Islands, just off the coast of Morocco that is forcing thousands to flee their homes, as the unstoppable lava flow lays waste to everything in its path. Hundreds of buildings have already been destroyed, as new eruptions continue for the fourth straight day. Dramatic drone footage shows the fast-moving lava cutting a devastating swath through residential neighborhoods. Experts are warning that the danger from the volcano could last for as long as three months.
You can follow me on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter or the TikTok @JakeTapper. You can tweet the show @TheLeadCNN. If you ever miss an episode of the show, you can listen to THE LEAD wherever you get your podcasts. The whole show there for you as a podcast.
Our overage continues now with one Mr. Wolf Blitzer right next door in "THE SITUATION ROOM." I'll see you tomorrow.