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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Rep. Debbie Dingell (D-MI) Is Interviewed About Build Back Better Act; House Democrats Add Paid Leave Back In Bill Despite Opposition From Sen. Manchin; Biden Shoots Down "Garbage" Report About $450K Payments To Migrant Families Separated At Border; Gov. Murphy Wins Re-election In Close N.J. Race; Mayo Clinic Estimates 13M Out Of Work With Long Haul COVID; Huma Abedin On Work With Hillary Clinton, Marriage, Faith & More; 37 Cases Of Unruly Passengers Sent To Federal Prosecutors. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired November 04, 2021 - 17:00   ET



JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: We've all seen this movie before. Let's get right to CNN's Manu Raju, he's on Capitol Hill.

Manu, it's going on 5:00, does there seem to be momentum from Democrats towards a vote tonight on the Build Back Better Act.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Jake, it looks less and less likely that a vote will actually happen tonight in large part because moderate Democrats in particular simply are just not ready to vote for this plan. The revised version of this bill, more than 2100 pages was released just yesterday, and a number of the members are still processing it, going through it, asking for more information.

And there's still some outstanding issues, immigration being one of them, how to deal with state and local tax deductions another. So this sweeping plan may have to wait even longer for a vote.

Now this comes as there are still questions about when that bipartisan infrastructure bill also may come up for a vote. While those moderates have been demanding votes on that, Nancy Pelosi initially had promised a vote at the end of September for that. But that still has not gotten a vote and that is contributing to the lack of trust, according to moderate Democratic congressman who talked to me about this earlier today.

Now at the same time, Jake, there's some questions that once this larger bill, if it does get out of the House, there's still a question because Pelosi can only afford to lose three votes. If that does get out of the House, then we'll go over to the Senate. And that point, Joe Manchin, in particular, has called for a number of changes, including getting rid of paid family leave as part of this proposal that Nancy Pelosi added back in, four weeks of leave.

And the demands by Manchin to pare back this bill has caused a lot of tension among liberals, including Raul Grijalva told me this earlier today.


REP. RAUL GRIJALVA (D-AZ): What I find offensive, OK, is the enormous (ph) amount of power that one or two individuals will have in this question.

For them to try to shift that responsibility to someone else when they've allowed -- they haven't done their part of the lifting, that, I find offensive.

RAJU: Yes.


RAJU: So, Pelosi on the floor was working over a number of the moderate Democrats, talking to them about some of their issues, trying to see if there can be a vote.

And Jake, House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer told me earlier that perhaps the House could even be in through this weekend to try to force this these two issues through, both the larger bill and the infrastructure bill. So this is still very fluid.

And can they get the votes? Still an open question on that larger bill. But behind the scenes, the leadership is working hard, Jake.

TAPPER: Manu Raju on Capitol Hill, thanks so much.

Let's bringing Democratic Congresswoman Debbie Dingell of Michigan, she's one of nine deputy whips on the Congressional Progressive Caucus.

Congresswoman, here the Democrats go again, you're signaling again, you're on the verge of a deal of votes pending. But this time, a vote on the Build Back Better Act might come first, although now we're hearing that moderates are balking, the Progressive Caucus has been adamant, both bills must be brought to the floor together. Where are we now? What's going to happen?

REP. DEBBIE DINGELL (D-MI): So first of all, I was in that caucus for -- and I did not hear Nancy Pelosi say there will be a vote tonight. And we got enough misinformation out there. I think people want to have these votes as soon as we can. And we will.

And I will tell you, Jake, we will not leave for -- we will be here until we get these bills done. Be it over the weekend, be it over the weekend. But we -- it is time to land this plane. We will get it done, and we will get it done.

I think they may still try to do a rule tonight. Their rules committee is meeting, is going to go back in. We've had a very long series of votes. But I do believe that people are working very hard.

You know, it's kind of I'm standing with you today in front of the Will Rogers statute, which Will Rogers said to us that people with weak stomach shouldn't watch sausage or laws been made. We are in the last stages of laws and sausage being made. And it's going to get done. We are going to get both of these bills passed.

TAPPER: And Will Rogers also said I don't I'm not a member of an organized party, I'm a Democrat. And I have to say the perceived inability of Democrats to get anything done might have cost you a lot of races on Tuesday night when Democrats got shellacked. I mean, is there any regret by any House Democrats about what happened Tuesday night, and the role that all this back and forth might have caused? I mean, you could have had months ago an infrastructure bill signed into law.

DINGELL: So, you know what I'm saying to you, we got to look forward. And I take a message from Tuesday, it's time for action. The American people are saying get it done. So we're going to get it done.

I do -- I chair, I mean, play the Natural Resources Committees chagrin a little earlier on this show, I think a lot of people -- therefore I am part of the body that has 435 members that each represent a district and need to have their voices heard in the issues that they care about. I think two senators have had a disproportionate impact on this system. It's been very important that the leadership of this House make sure that every member has the opportunity to represent their districts, their people.


I'm member of both Problem Solvers and the Progressive Caucus, I believe in working across the aisle. I have been working with everybody across the aisle. We've had lots of discussions, compromise is not a dirty word. It is time to get that common ground and pass two of the most important pieces of legislation we've seen in this country in decades.

TAPPER: Don't you think that if the bipartisan infrastructure bill had been law, had been signed into law months ago, and people, voters in New Jersey and Virginia and elsewhere had been able to see, you know, shovels going into the ground, and construction projects beginning, and broadband promises coming to life that your party might have fared better on Tuesday?

DINGELL: You know, who -- we are where we are. The fact of the matter is, I don't know, because I know that we have done an enormous amount of work. And the American Recovery Plan voted the first bill almost a year ago. We've had several -- and people know that we've made a difference, but they're forgetting about that.

One of the things that we have to do is act and then go out there and make sure people know what we are doing and the changes that are coming to their life because of what we've done. And there are things in this bill that have to -- that are going to -- I mean, inflation is a real issue. I know that. But when we pass this bill, it's going to have many things in it. They're going to address the inflation that we are looking at.

And we got to tell people why it's making the difference and the difference it's making. When children start to see -- when we start to see universal pre-K for our children, and that we're going to help 6 million children. People are going to be happy at that.

When we fix our roads and bridges, like we're going to when we get the lead out of every pipe in America. Yes, there are things in this bill that need to get done. And we're going to look forward and make sure the American people know what we have done.

TAPPER: Yes, you got to do it first, though.

DINGELL: We -- and we will. I'm telling you, Jake, I don't know what day we're leaving here, but we're not leaving here, and it'll be the next few days until both of these bills are done, and they will get done.

TAPPER: OK, Democratic Congresswoman Debbie Dingell, thank you so much. Appreciate your time.

Coming up next, one powerful group accuses President Biden of being out of the loop after Biden denies his administration will pay money to families that were separated at the border.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I honestly feel like I'm just trapped in a body that doesn't function normally anymore.


TAPPER: Long after being infected with COVID, some Americans are still suffering debilitating symptoms. Stay with us.



TAPPER: We are back with our politics lead. The White House today trying to, shall we say, clarify a comment President Biden made yesterday. The President had been asked about a "Wall Street Journal" report that the Biden administration was considering payments to the tune of $450,000 for families separated at the border under the Trump administration's so called zero tolerance policy. Here's the exchange.


PETER DOOCY, FOX NEWS REPORTER: Do you think that that might incentivize more people to come over illegally?

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If you guys keep sending that garbage out, Yes. But it's not true.

DOOCY: So this is a garbage report?


DOOCY: OK. BIDEN: $450,000 per person, is that what you're saying?

DOOCY: That was separated from a family member at the border under the last administration.

BIDEN: That's not going to happen.


TAPPER: One important thing we want to know, the group Physicians for Human Rights has found that the practice of family separation is tantamount to torture with profound health ramifications for both parents and child.

CNN's Daniel Dale joins us live with the fact of it.

Daniel, what's going on with these reports, of these payments? This would be, I guess, a settlement so that there isn't the lawsuit. Was the "Wall Street Journal" report that Peter Doocy was asking about, is it garbage or not?

DANIEL DALE, CNN REPORTER: Jake, this is one of these cases where the President is quite imprecise and leaves it to his staff and us to be the precise one.

So, here are the true facts. The "Wall Street Journal" was correct not reporting garbage when it reported that the Biden administration is in discussions to settle lawsuits brought on behalf of families affected by the family separation policy. And the "Wall Street Journal" was correct in reporting that the settlement discussions include talks of possible financial compensation.

In fact, White House Deputy Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre said today at the White House briefing that President Biden is comfortable with financial compensation as long as it ends up saving taxpayers money and helps people turn the page from the horrors of the Trump days.

So, why did President Biden talk about garbage, saying this report was garbage? Well, Jean-Pierre said he was referring specifically to that $450,000 amount the Wall Street Journal cited.

Now, as a fact checker, I'm very skeptical of these day after explanations, clarifications that the White House and other politicians offer, in this case, I think it's plausible. If you listen to that exchange between the President and Doocy, he did seem to be referring specifically to the 450,000. But I don't think he was very clear about it. I think he should have been clearer.

Now, what amount does the President feel comfortable with, if not 450,000, Karine Jean-Pierre, will not say it today. What we do know is that after the President's remarks on Wednesday in public, the Department of Justice communicated to people involved in these negotiations, including the American Civil Liberties Union, that the amount -- the final amount of the settlement, Jake, had to be lower than 450,000, that that amount was simply too high. TAPPER: Thank you, Daniel. Dale, appreciate it.

Also in our politics lead, CNN projected last night in New Jersey, Governor Phil Murphy, the Democrat, has eked out a victory over his Republican opponent, Jack Ciattarelli. There are still some ballots that have not been counted and Ciattarelli has yet to concede the race, which was far closer than many Democrats and pollsters had assume.


Republicans and Democrats alike now trying to recalibrate their strategies for next year's crucial midterm elections. Let's talk about it with my August panel.

Kristen Soltis Anderson, COVID was a big issue in that race in New Jersey, Phil Murphy hammered his opponent on Republican opposition to masks and vaccine mandates. Was that effective at the end of the day?

KRISTEN SOLTIS ANDERSON, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST & POLLSTER: I think when it comes to both New Jersey and Virginia, you had a political environment that was just toxic for Democrats. And so we can look at Virginia and say an issue like education played a big role or look at New Jersey and say an issue like COVID played a big role. I think it's a little bit of all of the above.

The economy's not feeling great to many Americans. They're not so convinced that Biden's agenda is what they're looking for or that his leadership is so great. And they're taking it out at the ballot box on these Democratic politicians who are running plain and simple.

TAPPER: What is the solution -- you're a Democrat, what's the solution for your party? This is, you know, we go through this, it's very cyclical, the pendulum swings. And, you know, I've -- there are lessons to be learned.


TAPPER: What are the lessons you want your party to learn?

CARDONA: First of all, get freaking something done on the Hill, right? So we can actually talk about --

TAPPER: Oh, I was just assured something's going to happen.

CARDONA: Yes, I heard. And let's believe her.


CARDONA: But once that happens, Jake, we have to translate that so that people understand what that is. We can't continue to call it the reconciliation bill. We can't even continue to call it the infrastructure bill. People don't really know what that means. So we need to actually talk about what it is, what is that money for?

I'm a single mom, I'm going to be able to go to work and have my kids being taken care of. I'm going to have a child tax credit. I'm going to be able to take care of my abuela who I can't leave home right now by herself.

And so, these are the things that I think we just really need to talk about. We need to message a lot better about what it is that we're doing for people. We all know that politics, and I think this is what happened in Virginia and New Jersey, a lot of it is, what have you done for me lately? And voters didn't feel like Democrats, after they had given them their vote and their confidence one year ago, had done all that much for them.

We have to prove that we can pass things. And that those things will actually feel to these voters, like we are doing something for them.

TAPPER: Eva McKend, you covered, Youngkin, you did a great job covering him. And one of the things that's interesting is yes, there was red meat for the base. And I could understand why some people would find some of the politics to be dog whistle politics. But it seems to me like Glenn Youngkin, the winner, the governor-elect, he talked about a lot more than that, right? I mean, why do you think he won?

EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER: He did a lot of things went right for him. He was the right candidate at the right moment at the right time. He had unlimited funds, that also help.

TAPPER: Yes, he's super rich.

MCKEND: Yes. And so, we are going to see Republicans across the country try to replicate this playbook. And it's not going to be easy, because it is not only the campaign he ran, he's a very disciplined campaigner.

His staff mostly kept him away from doing substantive sort of aggressive interviews. He stuck to the script out on the campaign trail, very few times that he deviate from his message. So that is hard to replicate, right? Not everyone --

TAPPER: On the Trump factor, he was able to not this (ph) Trump --

MCKEND: Right.

TAPPER: -- but keep him at arm's length.

MCKEND: Yes. And we haven't seen any Republican across the country be able to effectively do that. Trump wants to be involved in everything. And he did try to insert himself into this race as much as possible, but not in a way that proved toxic to Youngkin.

TAPPER: So, and speaking of Virginia, Congresswoman Abigail Spanberger, she's a frontline Democrat. She's in a swing district. I think she won by two points.


TAPPER: And she's, I mean, she's vulnerable, especially in a big Republican year, which seems to be likely in 2022. She has a message for President Biden and her fellow Democrats in the "New York Times." She said, quote, "Nobody elected Biden to be F.D.R.," meaning big, sweeping government programs, "they elected him to be normal and stop the chaos."

She's suggesting there that these big sweeping multi trillion dollar bills actually are not what voters want.

KHALID: I mean, I would argue if that is the case, to be normal and not have chaos, that's kind of what he's done to date. And yes, you have devastating losses for Democrats, right, yesterday. So I don't know that that's entirely the message. I mean, I'm convinced that Virginia had a lot of nuanced distinct factors.

Some of this is Youngkin was really the man who led a better campaign. As some of this, you know, you spend time out in Virginia, and Democrats alone were bored, uninspired by Terry McAuliffe. They'd be at his campaign rallies and say, this isn't the guy I wanted.

And so there is I think, some degree of perhaps over analyzing. I know we all want to take lessons from Virginia, and I get it because it's the big off your election, but I also think there are distinct things that happened in that governor's race that is tied to the two men --

TAPPER: And also we had -- we talked to the moms earlier in the show and there -- education was a big issue.



TAPPER: And it's not just critical race theory and how race is taught, although that certainly was part of it.


TAPPER: It's parents who want their kids to be back in school and have been so frustrated, right? I mean wasn't that a big issue?

ANDERSON: Well, there's a lot of things that fall under the umbrella of education.

TAPPER: Right.

ANDERSON: And it's whether you're frustrated about COVID, you can be frustrated about the way schools have handled it, either that they didn't open fast enough, that they're unclear in their communication to parents, they might be frustrated that they think the school district is focused on the wrong things. You had a number of districts have really heated debates about do we rename this school, if it's currently named after Thomas Jefferson or George Mason.

If you're a parent who just wants your kid not to be on Zoom anymore, does that seem like the wrong focus for the school board? That's not critical race theory, but it is sort of the intersection of the issues of social justice and education. We've also got public safety, Youngkin kept airing ads in the D.C. market showing footage of fights, breaking out in schools, and saying it's the Democrats who took police officers and school resource officers out of schools, I'll put them back.

So from public safety to COVID and more, lots of things all fall under this umbrella of education, which gave, I think, Republicans a pretty big opportunity.

And Republicans know that opportunity might exist in 2022. You've already had Kevin McCarthy come out and say, Republicans are going to put forward a parent's bill of Rights. This is a message they're going to hit on for the next 12 months for sure.

MCKEND: I just want to say one quick thing about Congresswoman Spanberger's comments. I think Democrats have to be careful though, they can't sort of contort themselves so much in a way to appease moderates, Independents, these mystery voters that they're looking for, in a way that progressives become disillusioned because they watered themselves down so much. And then the base voters or progressive voters feel alienated.

TAPPER: Right.

KHALID: I mean, voter (ph) turnout was down it looks like in Virginia.


KHALID: I mean, that is to your point, young people were not, you know, they were not inspired.

TAPPER: Not inspired at all.

CARDONA: And that's frankly why Youngkin won. I mean, the electorate was a lot wider, a lot older, and a lot more Republican. Republicans were the ones who were inspired. So I agree with you.

I think if we do get this passed, we can talk about what it is and our -- the base voters. And I don't think we need to continue to call them all our base voters because they've become persuadable now, especially the Latino voters, which we can talk about in another segment. But on education, that's another reason why Phil Murphy won, because he actually led his opponent on education. And Terry McAuliffe stepped in it with that comment about not wanting parents to be the ones who decide what is taught in schools.

Now, of course, Youngkin ran with it. He -- what he said -- Terry said is actually not what Terry said, but then they were able to use this against him. And when you are a parent, and you have been essentially your child's teacher for a year and a half, you don't want to hear that you should not be involved in your child's education.

TAPPER: I mean, yes, it was taken -- it was taking someone out of context. But by the same token, he's a politician. And you know that when -- you have to speak precisely, and the idea --

CARDONA: Absolutely.

TAPPER: Yes, he was talking about whether or not parents --

CARDONA: Yes, I agree.

TAPPER: -- can take books out of a library, right?

CARDONA: Right, right.

TAPPER: That's what he was talking about. But still, just the words --


TAPPER: -- parents shouldn't be involved in education, I mean --

CARDONA: That's right. And he could have cleaned that up, and he didn't. He doubled down a couple of times after that. And I think that was the big mistake, the big pothole that he was not able to get out of

TAPPER: What -- I've seen a lot of Democrats and liberals on social media, basically saying that what happened was Glenn Youngkin is a racist, and all of the Virginia voters that voted for him are racist. And, again, there were certainly racial tropes. There were certainly elements of the campaign that I thought were troubling. But I don't think that that is accurate. And I don't think it's fair to the voters or to Glenn Youngkin, for that matter.

MCKEND: Well, that criticism doesn't tell the whole story.

TAPPER: Right.

MCKEND: You know, I was at these rallies, and I saw Chinese Americans who were worried that Democrats were moving in the direction of socialism. He had faith leaders for Youngkin. And I met black women who are uncomfortable with the conversation around transgender rights. So, you know --

TAPPER: Not to mention the new lieutenant governor.

MCKEND: Yes. So yes, so I think it's much more nuanced when you attend these rallies. The campaign did a good job. I think they had like 14 coalitions, Salvadorians for Youngkin, I think was among them. So they left no stone unturned in trying to appeal to everyone that they could.

KHALID: I mean, that's also, I think, going to be a troubling argument for Democrats heading into next year's midterms. If the argument is that every candidate that Democrats lose to is arguably racist or dipped into racism, which, you know, I'm not going to say --

TAPPER: It happens. Sure.

KHALID: But the argument is, did voters vote for him for those reasons? Or were they perhaps willing to overlook some of it? And I think those are two different things. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think some did.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Some of them did.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think some of them did.

CARDONA: I think that's what we have to be clear about.

TAPPER: Sure. Yes, no, look, absolutely, absolutely. But it's, you know, just saying 2 million racists just, you know --

CARDONA: No, absolute, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And it's not just strategy, that's tough (ph).

TAPPER: That's not -- by the way, that's not a ticket as you know. That's on a ticket to success in 2020.



TAPPER: Thanks for one and all.


TAPPER: Join me tomorrow night for a new CNN special report, "Trumping Democracy an American Coup." Key Republican officials share never heard before details about how close American democracy came to crumbling. That's tomorrow night at 9:00 p.m.


Coming up, a year after infection long term COVID symptoms are keeping some Americans out of work, including one nursing director who oversaw hundreds of patients.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Losing that job and losing that part of me has been really hard.



TAPPER: In our money lead, a disturbing trend emerging due to the corona virus pandemic. Doctors at the Mayo Clinic estimate that more than 1 million Americans are out of work right now because of the long haul COVID symptoms. Those range from headaches to exhaustion to brain fog and plagued some patients more than a year after they caught the virus.

CNN's Gabe Cohen talk to some of these long haulers about the struggle to adjust to their new realities.


GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Laurie Bedell feels trapped inside her Pittsburgh home and her ailing body.

LAURIE BEDELL, LONG-HAUL COVID PATIENT: I feel like I've lost the life that I had.

COHEN (voice-over): It's been nearly a year since she and her family contracted COVID. Her father died. Today, she's still battling post- COVID syndrome, a mysterious long-term condition plaguing some COVID patients. Once perfectly healthy, she now keeps this long list of symptoms like severe fatigue, brain fog and constant pain.

BEDELL: I literally can't even leave my house by myself.

COHEN (voice-over): She needs a walker just to get the mail.

(on-camera): How are you feeling now?

BEDELL: A little winded.

COHEN (on-camera): Could you even work right now?

BEDELL: No. I barely function.

COHEN (voice-over): Before COVID, Laurie was the nursing director for a home health agency. But she hasn't worked since January. After using up her paid time off, she was laid off.

BEDELL: Losing that job and losing that part of me has been really hard. I've become one of the patients that I cared for.

COHEN (voice-over): Laurie's case is severe but she's not alone.


COHEN (voice-over): Dr. Greg Vanichkachorn is seeing this constantly.

VANICHKACHORN: Work issues have been one of the most significant problems we've encountered in our patient population.

COHEN (voice-over): His team at the Mayo Clinic treats and studies post-COVID syndrome. Looking at data from their clinic and several other studies, they've noticed a troubling trend.

VANICHKACHORN: We estimate that approximately 1.3 million individuals are out of work right now due to long-haul COVID symptoms.

COHEN (voice-over): He says that could mean more than a million Americans out of the labor force as the country deals with a worker shortage and more than 10 million open jobs as of August.

MARK ZANDI, CHIEF ECONOMIST, MOODY'S ANALYTICS: I think that's entirely plausible.

COHEN (voice-over): Mark Zandi is Chief Economist of Moody's Analytics. He says the doctors' estimate makes sense.

ZANDI: Long COVID is increasingly a significant headwind to the labor market, getting back to normal for businesses to get their business operations up and running. And, you know, ultimately, for the broader economy to kick into high gear.

COHEN (on-camera): Could this be an over estimate?

VANICHKACHORN: Absolutely. But it also could be an underestimate.

COHEN (voice-over): Most of the long haulers they're studying have well-paying jobs and good insurance.

VANICHKACHORN: My fear is that there are individuals out there who are suffering severely from this condition, but they simply can't take time off of work to go get care.

COHEN (voice-over): Jennifer Hobbs is a preschool teacher in Medford, Oregon who suffered long haul symptoms for a year from severe fatigue to hair loss.

JENNIFER HOBBS, SUFFERING FROM POST-COVID SYNDROME: I've had a headache every single day for a year.

COHEN (voice-over): But she returned to her classroom, needing the income and health insurance.

HOBBS: It was nearly impossible for me to think about leaving. I don't know how I do it. I just make it through the day.

COHEN (voice-over): The U.S. government recognizes long COVID as a disability and patients can apply for assistance. But it can take months and some long hauler say they've been denied.

BEDELL: It's been a catastrophe for us.

COHEN (voice-over): Laurie Bedell just applied for disability and is awaiting an answer. She and her husband have used up their savings and retirement funds just to pay the bills.

BEDELL: Honestly, I'm terrified that I'm never going to be able to go back to work.


COHEN: Now many of the long haulers these clinics are studying are some of the more severe cases. And so, these doctors acknowledge that it is hard at this point to say exactly how many of these patients are out of work. But this latest estimate, well it reflects the concern from doctors about these long-term neurological problems that their patients are facing. Not just the ones who have left their jobs but also, Jake, the ones who may be suffering in silence at work.

TAPPER: All right, Gabe Cohen, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Here to discuss this is Dr. Chris Pernell, he's a public health physician and a fellow at the American College of Preventive Medicine. Dr. Pernell, is there any way to treat long-haul COVID symptoms?

DR. CHRIS PERNELL, PUBLIC HEALTH PHYSICIAN: Jake, there's a variability in what people who have long COVID experience. I can tell you personally. My oldest sister who had coronavirus and had long COVID, it took her approximately 10 months to be able to return to some semblance of her baseline. We know that because either people's immune systems are not turning off or the inflammatory process is starting to attack them or they have end organ damage from the infection itself.

You can see a variety of symptoms whether those are neurological cardiac in nature, or even some mental and behavioral health conditions. So there isn't one consensus treatment that is available, but a multiplicity of options that providers have to consider.

TAPPER: But we keep hearing about the -- these miracle treatments like monoclonal antibodies and the like, that doesn't necessarily work with those long haulers?


PERNELL: There's so much variability in the data right now and, Jake, for us to say that monoclonal antibodies are going to work in every person. It depends on what the actual mechanism of long COVID is. Again, is that an inflammatory process where the immune system having turned off, or is that an inflammatory process where the immune system is starting to attack the cells of the body or the result of organ damage. So we can't point to monoclonal antibodies as a concise, cohesive and comprehensive solution to a product a problem that just has too much variability.

TAPPER: Some of these patients, as you know, say, it's been more than a year since their original COVID diagnosis. Could the symptoms last for the rest of their lives?

PERNELL: It's possible, right? Again, understanding the mechanism is going to be important. What we do know is that a third of patients or more can experience long COVID. What that experience is, does have variability in the length of the time? Studies are currently being done so that we can learn more, unfortunately, that are just too much that we don't know. And because of that, the best way to prevent long COVID is to prevent infection with coronavirus in the first place.

TAPPER: And it's not just adults, right, kids also could experience --


TAPPER: No, they can't?

PERNELL: No, they can, yes.

TAPPER: Yes, yes.

PERNELL: And so it's not just adults. If you look at the data coming out of the U.K., the U.K. said anywhere from roughly around 30 percent of children in the two to 11 age category and much as 15 percent of those who are 12 to 16 have experienced bouts of long COVID. So meaning -- and symptoms anywhere from five weeks after infection.

Kids can have neurological impacts. That's why it's important, especially with five to 11 year olds now eligible for the vaccination to go out and get vaccinated. My niece Gaia (ph), the last person in our immediate family not to get vaccinated, just got her first dose yesterday.

TAPPER: That's great. That must be a big relief for your family. And yes, everyone out there, please get vaccinated.

Dr. Chris Pernell, thank you so much for your time and expertise.

Behind the scenes no more. Next, Huma Abedin joins me live as she opens up about her life. Stay with us.



TAPPER: In our politics lead Friday, October 28th, 2016. The letter to Congress that rocked the 2016 election. Former FBI Director James Comey revealing that e-mails between Hillary Clinton and her long-time aide Huma Abedin were found on a laptop that belonged to Abedin's then-husband Anthony Weiner. That discovery and an investigation into Weiner sexting with a minor reopened.

The FBI's Hillary Clinton e-mail investigation and that saga may have furthered planted seeds of doubt and voters already on the fence about trusting Clinton who knows the effect either way. Eleven days later, Donald J. Trump won the election.

Fast forward five years, Huma Abedin, the woman who had send when it came to those e-mails writes now, "I have slowly come to accept that I am not the sole cause of the 2016 election loss. One man's decision to play God forever changed the course of history. It should not be my burden to carry the rest of my life." She is out with a brand new book called, "Both/And: A Life In Many Worlds." It is a lovely book.

Huma Abedin joins me now. I didn't know you were such a good writer.

HUMA ABEDIN, AUTHOR, "BOTH/AND: A LIFE IN MANY WORLDS": Well, thank you, Jake. I'm happy to be on your show. And I'm happy to hear that I really enjoyed the writing process. It was great therapy for me.

TAPPER: Let me start with the elephant in the room about Comey. For a long time, Comey was a daily nightmare for you. And what happened in 2016, you argue should be Comey's burden to bury not yours. But do you believe that saga did change the outcome of the 2016 race?

ABEDIN: Well, first of all, Jake, thank you for, you know, mentioning a chapter in my book. I do have an entire chapter called elephant in the room. It is something I lived with for a long time, this -- the trauma, the shock, the challenges of having to deal with that moment and all the years leading up to that moment. But I -- do I think that one thing, you know, change the course the election? No, but do I think it, you know, it was a factor in her loss? Obviously, I do. I think it's now documented fact that it did. And that was an extremely hard moment and decision for me to have to deal with in the aftermath in the election. I write about it extensively in my book.

TAPPER: The book is, it's not just about that, obviously, it's about your whole life. It's a memoir. And there's a lot of details about your childhood and your parents and I did not know you wrote extensively about being raised Muslim, spending your early years in Saudi Arabia, where most women even now cover their heads and faces in public.

You write about it nonjudgmentally in the book, just the about the experience of the religious police and the like and the experience of girls and women being harassed, the experience of girls and women having to cover their their bodies when they go -- when they left the home. But I -- one thing I wondered when reading it was looking at it now, as someone who has traveled the world calling for women's rights as a strong independent woman, how do you feel about those religious rules?

ABEDIN: Well, for me, you know, my parents as you said, I mean, we were an immigrant family coming to this country. My father came from India, my mom from Pakistan. For them, education was a religion. They were Fulbright scholars. They met at the University of Pennsylvania.

I was born in Michigan. We moved to Saudi Arabia when I was two. And the reason and I do write extensively about this in the book, I opened the book with a letter that I found in my father's files after he passed away, is we moved to Saudi Arabia because my father was diagnosed essentially with a terminal illness when I was two. And they moved to Saudi Arabia at a time when there were new educational institutions opening and there was a tremendous opportunity for foreign nationals like my parents and they went and they taught. They were both academics


And I was raised in my house, my home. My parents were all about expanding our minds. And yes, we did live in a restrictive society. For me, you know, I opened the book about ballads (ph) in Saudi Arabia, you know, growing up and sort of shopping in the Old City. It was that cultural, social that we were, you know, my -- practicing Muslim family.

For us, you know, I can only talk about my own experience, because I only have these really fond wonderful memories of growing up there. And I was lucky to have parents who said, you know, you can do whatever you want. You can be whatever you want. All we require is that you be educated. And that's why I write extensively about what it was like --


ABEDIN: -- to grow up and live there. And for me, those are really wonderful memories. And some of our family, friends are still there. And I try to go back and visit as often as I can. TAPPER: You write candidly about the highs and lows in your now estranged relationship with Anthony Weiner, his balance (ph) of betrayal and lies. After his prison release, you wrote about an episode in 2019, when the New York Post was about to publish, yet another photograph of him with a woman, not you and you write, "I had fallen to the lowest point I'd ever experienced. On my way home from work one night, I'd contemplated for a brief moment, stepping off a subway platform. The very fact that I thought it, even if it was for only a second terrified me."

It's a very candid admission. And I wonder what you would say now to any woman, any person who might be in such a dark place or experience such a dark moment anytime soon?

ABEDIN: Well, Jake, for me, the reason I chose to share my full truth, and I did, I mean, I know for much of my adult life, certainly in the last 10 years, when people look at me from the outside, they'll say what is wrong with her and what is she thinking. And it is why in the book, I write extensively, why I did certain things, why I chose to make the decisions that I made.

When Anthony's first, you know, story broke, I was carrying his child, I was not even 12 weeks pregnant. And by the time I got to 2019, sort of on the other side of the election, the outcome of the election, obviously was devastating, not having, you know -- I came from a, you know, a club that is called Hillaryland. It's a very supportive environment, working for Hillary Clinton and all of my friends and colleagues.

We kind of all disbanded and I had gone to a very, very dark place. I had not understood the mental health challenges that Anthony addiction that, you know, really he was struggling with. We were kind of in a bunker together for years.

And that day, on the subway, I mean, I wrote about that episode because for somebody who is a strong believer, her faith, I'm a practicing Muslim, the idea that I even thought it, reminded me or told me was a wakeup call, like I needed help. And I got help. I needed help, I got help.

I was on the other side. I am on the other side now. And I'm glad for that. And I think, you know, women or people, I actually don't think what I went through is all that uncommon, unfortunately. I think I just had to go through it on the front page of the newspaper. And if some part of my story can help women or other people out in the world, then that is a service I'm, you know, honored to have.

TAPPER: Well, we're glad that you, you know, you made the decision you did and it's an important reminder for anybody out there that has a dark moment, things do get better.

ABEDIN: That's right.

TAPPER: They do improve. Huma Abedin, thank you so much.

ABEDIN: That's right. TAPPER: The new book again, it's a beautifully written, it's called "Both/And: A Life In Many Worlds". And on the subject of homeless discussion of darker days, we should note for anyone out there who might be dealing with similar issues, there is help, there is love for you out there.


TAPPER: We want to flag the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline. That number is 1-800-273-TALK.

Huma, thank you so much.

After a sharp rise in violence on plane, some unruly travelers may be facing jail time. Will everyone else get the message? Stay with us.



TAPPER: In our national lead now, despite all the warnings, we keep hearing stories of airline passengers getting unruly and eventually violent. So as CNN's Aviation Correspondent Pete Muntean reports, the feds are preparing to send a new message. Bad behavior may, in fact, land you in jail.


PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The most egregious acts of inflight violence are now being turned over to federal prosecutors. For the first time, the Federal Aviation Administration says it has sent the cases of more than three dozen unruly passengers to the Department of Justice. They could face up to 20 years in jail.


MUNTEAN (voice-over): Sara Nelson heads the Association of Flight Attendants. Flight crews have reported 5,033 unruly incidents this year alone. The FAA has initiated enforcement in 227 cases. Now, it is asking prosecutors to put 37 of those passengers behind bars.

NELSON: We know this works and the Justice Department just has to take action. Put some people in jail and have people understand their severe consequences if you act out like this on a plane and put everyone in jeopardy.


MUNTEAN (voice-over): The FAA says it has no tolerance for passengers who throw punches and shout down flight crews. The FAA's newest fleet of passengers aired first on CNN. The agency cannot bring criminal charges but the Justice Department can. The ad shows the notice of vendors open when their case turns criminal.

STEVE DICKSON, FAA ADMINISTRATOR: We're pulling out the stops we have --

MUNTEAN (voice-over): FAA Chief Steve Dickson says more federal investigators are meeting flights at the gate.


Last week, police and the FBI were waiting in Denver for the man now charged for allegedly punching an American Airlines flight attendant in the face for

The game last week police and the FBI we're waiting in Denver for the man now charged for allegedly punching an American Airlines flight attendant in the face.

DICKSON: The crews are there for passenger safety. And this is about a behavior that's not appropriate in an aviation environment and we need to get it under control.


MUNTEAN: The Association of Flight Attendants says this year's unruly passenger incidents are on pace to exceed all of those in the history of aviation. What's driving the spike? The FAA says 70 percent of all incidents over maps. Jake?

TAPPER: Yes. These people need to get a grip. Pete Muntean, thanks so much. We'll be right back.


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