Return to Transcripts main page

The Lead with Jake Tapper

White House In Cleanup Mode After Biden's Marathon Presser; Interview With White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki; Sources: Giuliani, Other Trump Allies Oversaw Plot To Create Fake Electors In Seven States Trump Lost In 2020; January 6 Committee Requests Testimony From Ivanka Trump; WH, GOP Back To Bipartisan Efforts To Change 1887 Electoral Count Law; HHS: Hospitalizations At An All-Time High; Pope Benedict Of Abuse While He Was Munich Archbishop. Aired 4- 5p ET

Aired January 20, 2022 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:03]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Look, I'm a big believer. Everything in moderation, including moderation.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Including moderation. I knew I liked you, Alisyn Camerota.

(LAUGHTER)

CAMEROTA: That's awesome.

Elizabeth Cohen, thank you for all of that.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Thanks.

CAMEROTA: Oh, and THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER starts right now.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Cleanup on aisle 1600.

THE LEAD starts right now.

From Russia to election legitimacy, President Joe Biden being forced to clarify today some of his comments after the nearly two-hour, freewheeling news conference. White House press secretary Jen Psaki is just moments away from joining me live.

New clues about the letter Ivanka Trump received today. The January 6 Committee revealing interesting details as it calls on Donald Trump's daughter to testify.

And good news for parents of children under 5. Dr. Anthony Fauci hinting the vaccines for America's youngest could be available sooner than expected.

Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

And we start today in our politics lead. And the White House's aggressive attempts to clean up shall we say comment from President Biden's nearly two-hour marathon news conference yesterday marking one year in office. President Biden touted some legislative victories, acknowledged nationwide fatigue with COVID. And he admitted more progress needs to be made with the pandemic and the economy.

But two specific comments are getting the most attention, including clarification from his communications team. On the midterm elections, the White House now says President Biden was not suggesting that the 2022 midterm elections could be illegitimate, even though that's clearly what the president's words suggested. On Russia, President Biden today said Russian President Vladimir Putin, quote, will pay a heavy price if Russia invades Ukraine. This comes after yesterday when he suggested there could be fewer consequences if Russia stages a, quote, minor incursion.

We're going to talk to the White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki about all of this in just a moment, but first, CNN's Jeff Zeleny starts us off with the fallout.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I've been absolutely clear with President Putin. He has no misunderstanding. If any, any assembled Russian units move across the Ukrainian border, that is an invasion.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: President Biden opening his second year in office today with a blunt message for Russia, in an urgent act of clarifying and cleanup.

BIDEN: Let there be no doubt at all, that if Putin makes this choice, Russia will pay a heavy price.

ZELENY: The White House scrambling to clear up the impression from the president's marathon press conference on Wednesday that a minor Russian invasion into Ukraine may not receive the full weight of retaliation by the U.S. and NATO allies.

BIDEN: It's one thing if it's a minor incursion and we end up having to fight about what to do and not do.

ZELENY: Those words sparking a fierce response from Ukrainian President Zelensky who feared Biden gave Russia a green light to invade.

We want to remind the great powers there are no minor incursions in small nations, he said.

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell blasted Biden's gaffe.

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): It's one thing if it's a minor incursion? Does this mean President Biden will not actually authorize the tough response that his own administration officials have spent weeks, weeks promising?

ZELENY: At the White House it was intended to be the beginning of a new chapter, with the president digging in on his landmark achievement.

BIDEN: Now let me turn to the topic of the day.

ZELENY: The bipartisan infrastructure law now being implemented.

But Press Secretary Jen Psaki also clarifying Biden's comment about the legitimacy of the midterm elections saying he was not trying to cast doubt on the outcome, simply pointing out the need to protect elections.

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: He was also explaining that the results would be illegitimate if states do what the former president asked them to do in more than half a dozen states in 2020, after the 2020 election. Toss out ballots and overturn results after the fact.

ZELENY: The White House also trying to chart a new course on the president's stalled legislative priorities, a smaller Build Back Better plan, and a potential compromise on election reform.

Going forward, aides say, the president will not be leading the talks.

PSAKI: He wants to spend more time out in the country and less time behind closed doors negotiating.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZELENY (on camera): And that is one of the things that President Biden said yesterday when we asked what he would like to do differently in his second year. Jake, he said he would like to leave the bubble of the White House and spend more time out in the country.

We've heard many presidents, of course, say that before. We will see what President Biden decides to do with that. No trips scheduled this week. I'm told they could come as soon as next -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Jeff Zeleny at the White House, thanks so much.

Here to discuss, White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki.

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Hi, Jake.

TAPPER: So, Jen, this morning you said that President Biden was not casting doubt on the potential legitimacy of the 2022 election if those election reform bills are not passed.

[16:05:03]

And, of course, they failed to pass.

I just want to play exactly what the president said yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: I'm not going to say it's going to be legit. It increases -- the prospect of being illegitimate is in direct proportion to us not being able to get these -- these reforms passed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: "I'm not saying it's going to be legit."

I mean, he's not saying that it's going to be legitimate. That's pretty clear.

PSAKI: Well, here's what his intention was Jake, and what his intention was not. He was not trying to predict that the 2022 elections would not be legitimate. Quite the opposite.

His view -- and he's told us this privately a lot -- is that, in 2020, the American people rose to the moment. We had COVID. People were trying to suppress the vote. They still turned out in record numbers.

What we also, though, need to be clear-eyed about -- and this is what he was trying to convey last night -- is that there were efforts in 2020 by the former president and his supporters to attempt to overturn the outcome of the election. We need to be clear-eyed about that possibility or about the effort to try to do that.

We need to educate voters. We need to make sure they know what their rights are. And that's what our focus is going to be on moving forward.

TAPPER: He was directly tying the legitimacy of the November elections with the election reform bills that failed last night.

He was asked a clear question. He said it depends. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: If this isn't passed, do you still believe the upcoming election will be fairly conducted and its results will be legitimate?

BIDEN: Well, it all depends on whether or not we're able to make the case to the American people that some of this is being set up to try to alter the outcome of the election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: I mean, isn't the correct answer, if this isn't passed, do you believe the upcoming election will be fairly conducted and legitimate, isn't the correct answer, yes, it will be fairly conducted and legitimate?

PSAKI: That is his view, Jake.

But we also have all lived through, you have done extensive reporting on the attempts to change the outcome in 2020. We know voters need to be clear-eyed and need to be aware and educated about what is facing them.

And we -- the president believes they're going to rise to the moment. But -- well, we have more work to do. That's also what he was trying to convey, in educating voters and making sure voter protections are up, with -- the Department of Justice doubled their voter protection funding. There's more we need to do. And we're going to work with states to do exactly that.

That was what he was trying to convey last night.

TAPPER: So, I get that there are efforts on the state level, because this is also what the president was trying to tie it to, efforts on the state level to make it more difficult to vote.

Some of that is no doubt born from the big lie. Some of it is nefarious. Some of it is election officials saying, we're not in the middle of the pandemic, like we were in November 2020. We don't need to do everything like we did.

But I guess my bigger question is, if we're saying that there's no election that's legitimate if there are efforts to suppress the vote, then when has there ever been a legitimate election in this country? Trying to suppress American votes has been going on since the founding of this country.

PSAKI: That's not what we're saying, Jake.

People should be confident in the protections that we are going to continue to enforce. But, also, we know it's not long-ago history. It is recent history --

TAPPER: Sure.

PSAKI: -- when the former president tried to overturn the outcome.

That is different than the effort to suppress the vote. We need to fight against both. We need to ensure we're using every tool at our disposal. Obviously, a lot of those would be through the Democratic National Committee. And a lot of these are going to be through local efforts. And that's what the president was attempting to speak to.

TAPPER: But he didn't say, the elections are going to be legitimate, and I'm going to be there making sure that they are legitimate, and we're going to fight, and you need to turn out to vote.

I mean, he basically -- he basically refused to say that -- definitively that they're going to be legitimate. Vice President Harris today also with Savannah Guthrie also refused to say that the results will be legitimate. She pivoted to saying -- quote -- "We, as America, cannot afford to allow this blatant erosion of our democracy and, in particular, the right of all Americans who are eligible to vote to have access to the ballot unfettered."

So, I hear what you're saying. But you do not seem to be on the same page as the president and vice president.

PSAKI: I have spoken with the president about this extensively. I speak on his behalf. He is not questioning the legitimacy of the 2022 elections. But it is also his responsibility and the vice president's too to be very candid and clear-eyed and communicate with the American people about what is at risk and what -- they need to ensure they know what their rights are and what the former president attempted to do in 2020. And we can't forget and stop talking about that.

TAPPER: Moving on to Russia and Ukraine, I want to get your reaction to what the Ukrainian president, Zelensky, said.

He said he's -- he's clearly not happy with President Biden's comments, his suggestion that a minor incursion by Russia into Ukraine might prompt a lesser response and less NATO unanimity than if he scales a full-scale invention -- full-scale invasion.

[16:10:06]

Earlier today, Zelensky, the president of Ukraine, tweeted -- quote -- We want to remind the great powers that there are no minor incursions and small nations, just as there are no minor casualties and little grief from the loss of loved ones. I say this as the president of a great power.

Are there any plans for President Biden to talk to President Zelensky directly?

PSAKI: He's talked to him a couple times in the last few weeks. And he may in the future.

I have nothing to predict for you at this moment. But, as you know, our secretary of state is on the ground in Europe. He just spent some time with the Ukrainians a couple days ago, with his European counterparts this morning. He's talking to the Russians tomorrow.

And we have been in touch at a very senior level from senior officials with Ukrainian leaders just today. They know where the president stands. And the president reiterated again this morning, if they -- if the Russians move into Ukraine, if they move militarily into Ukraine, there will be severe consequences.

We also know, Jake -- and you have covered this extensively too -- that back in 2014 and since then, they have used a number of tactics, whether it's cyber or the little green men, people who are -- members of the military who are not in uniform moving into Ukraine.

There are a range of tools at our disposal as well. And we are -- let me be clear. We are very unified with NATO. We have been working to ensure we're unified. We are unified. And you have heard a number of those leaders speak very publicly about their intention to act should Russia invade.

TAPPER: Well, you have called the movement of troops across the border an invasion, but noting that something like a cyberattack might be considered a minor incursion.

That -- doesn't that give Putin -- or how do you respond to the Ukrainian officials that our reporters on the ground in Ukraine spoke with that said, basically, President Biden gave a green light for Putin just to stage a -- quote, unquote -- "minor incursion"?

PSAKI: That's absolutely not what our intention was or not the message we have sent, the president, most importantly, has sent to President Putin.

I'd also note this morning, Jake, that we announced a number of sanctions through the Treasury Department of officials who have been spreading misinformation from Russia into Ukraine. We have also provided more security assistance, defense assistance, than -- than any year in history over the last year.

So we are delivering and we are helping support them and holding -- putting to account even before they invade to make that clear. But it is different tools -- there are different tactics that the Russians use. We have seen that in the past. We have been very vocal about that in the last couple of weeks, misinformation, false flags.

We all need to be eyes wide open about that. And we have a range of tools to respond to that. And we will do that in a coordinated way with our partners and allies, should they act.

TAPPER: White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki earning her paycheck this week.

Thank you so much. Appreciate it.

PSAKI: Thank you, Jake.

TAPPER: Donald Trump's daughter just got an invitation from the January 6 committee and the letter is revealing some interesting clues. We have new CNN reporting next.

Then, breaking news. We're just getting new details about the tricky and potentially illegal moves made by Rudy Giuliani and other members of Trump's inner circle to stop peaceful transfer of power and Joe Biden taking office.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:17:11]

TAPPER: Breaking news in our politics lead. Sources are revealing to CNN extensive efforts by Rudy Giuliani and other Trump campaign officials to overturn President Biden's legitimate election win allegedly by facing fake electors in several states that Trump clearly, definitively lost.

Let's bring in CNN's Pamela Brown who is breaking this story.

What are you learning about the actions of Giuliani and other Trump allies?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, and it is worth underlining what you just said, Jake. These are the states Trump definitively lost. And now, we are learning several Trump campaign officials led by Rudy Giuliani supervised efforts back in December of 2020 to put forward fake electors from seven states that Trump lost according to three sources with direct knowledge of the scheme talking to me and several members of the reporting team, Marshall Cohen, Zachary Cohen and Dan Merica.

Members of Trump's campaign team were far more involved in the plan than previously known, these sources are telling us.

And what's key here, Jake, is that this plan served as a major part of the overall scheme to overturn the 2020 election results back when Congress counted the electoral votes on January 6th. You had Giuliani and these campaign officials organizing the details of this process on a state by state level.

One source telling us there were several calls between Trump campaign officials and state GOP operatives to organize the plan and that Giuliani participated in at least one of those calls. To talk about what they did, they were organizing ways to fill these elector slots, securing meeting rooms in state houses for fake electors to meet on December 14th of 2020. They sent around drafts of the fake certificates that ended up being sent to the National Archives.

Trump and some of his top advisers publicly encouraged the alternate elector scheme in the seven states of Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, Arizona, Wisconsin, Nevada, and New Mexico.

However, behind the scenes now we're learning Giuliani and Trump campaign officials actively put that plan into motion.

Now, at a recent event held by a local GOP organization within of those fake electors from Michigan boasted that the Trump campaign directed the whole operation. Take a listen.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

MESHAWN MADCOCK, CO-CHAIR, MICHIGAN REPUBLICAN PARTY: He fought for investigations into every part of the election we could. He fought for a team of people to come and testify in front of the committee. We fought to seat the electors. The Trump campaign asked us to do that, under a lot of scrutiny for that today.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BROWN: And, Jake, I spoke to a source close to former Vice President Pence who said Pence was aware of the scenario. There was concern in Pence's circle that this kind of scenario could play out and that is why in that statement that he released before the certification on January 6, he was very specific and the slate of electors that he would be able to certify and the process by which that would happen in order to avoid a situation where these fake electors would be sent.

[16:20:14]

And, of course, the Trump campaign at that time wanted him to replace the legitimate ones with these fake ones. TAPPER: I mean, I guess lawyers will weigh in but I cannot imagine how

that is legal.

Pamela Brown, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

Also in our politics lead, today, the House Select Committee investigating the Capitol insurrection officially requested a meeting with Ivanka Trump. Committee members say they have first-hand testimony that the former first daughter was at the White House on January 6th and asked her father at least twice to do what he could to stop that violent riot on the Capitol.

CNN's Jamie Gangel joins us now live.

Jamie, what exactly does the committee want from Ivanka Trump?

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: Look, they want to speak to Ivanka Trump because as you said, she is a first-hand witness. We know she was with her father on January 6th during the riot, senior White House advisers asked her to intervene. They -- nobody else can do anything. They asked Ivanka to intervene. What is interesting about the letter, Jake, is the committee has laid out specific testimony from former national security adviser to Mike Pence, this is Keith Kellogg, who is considered a Trump loyalist, but he has been cooperating with the committee.

Here is the exact wording the committee has released from his testimony. So, you thought that Ivanka could get her father to do something about it? Kellogg, to take a course of action. Question, he didn't say yes to Mark Meadows or Kayleigh McEnany or Keith Kellogg but he might say yes to his daughter? Answer from Keith Kellogg, exactly right.

And, Jake, if you continue, you have to read this letter closely. It has so many details and footnotes in it. There are a couple other sentences that jump out. Quote: The Select Committee wishes to discuss the part of the conversation you, meaning Ivanka Trump, observed between President Trump and Vice President Mike Pence on the morning of J 6th.

So, apparently, the committee believes Ivanka Trump is a first-hand witness to her father pressuring Pence to overturn the election. The letter goes on to ask whether Ivanka Trump has any other information about her father pressuring Pence to take action that, quote, would violate the Constitution or would otherwise be illegal, specifically asking, and again this is a quote from the letter, did you discuss those issues with any member of the White House Counsel's Office? To your knowledge were any such legal conclusions shared with President Trump?

Jake, I don't think we can underscore enough how specific these questions are that the committee is revealing in this letter. And from talking to sources familiar with the investigation, I am told this is not a fishing expedition, that the committee has documents and testimony to support her -- asking her these very specific questions.

TAPPER: And, Jamie, the details in the letter make it pretty clear.

GANGEL: Right.

TAPPER: That members of the committee are very focused on the exact timeline of what happened on January 6th.

GANGEL: Correct. Especially about the White House being aware the riot had become violent. So they lay out a timeline. It mentions that at 1:49 p.m., the metropolitan police declared it a riot. Then the committee lays out that about 35 minutes later, former President Trump tweeted about Mike Pence at 2:24 and this is that tweet we know where he let supporters know quite, quote, Mike Pence didn't have the courage to do what should have been done.

And what's interesting is in the letter, the committee then sets out that the violence -- it's connecting the dots between Trump's words and more violence, because they include here two quotes from rioters. If you read the letter closely, it says, from one rioter, quote, once we found out Pence turned on us and that the election -- they had stolen the election like officially, the crowd went crazy. I mean, it became a mob. We crossed the gate from a second rioter then we heard the news on Pence and lost it so we stormed.

So let's just remember, there are criminal penalties for inciting violence. But bottom line, the committee has laid out here a direct line from Trump's tweet about Pence to more violence.

TAPPER: Jamie, are you hearing anything from Ivanka Trump or her team about this letter? Is there any suggestion she will cooperate?

[16:25:01]

GANGEL: Right. We've just gotten a statement. We do not know if she will cooperate willingly. Her spokesman did not address that.

But we did get this statement, Ivanka Trump just learned the January 6 committee issued a public letter asking her to appear. As the committee already knows, Ivanka did not speak at the January 6 rally, but, Jake, we do know she was there. As she publicly stated that day at 3:15 p.m., quote, any security breach or disrespect to our law enforcement is unacceptable. The violence must stop immediately. Please be peaceful.

I would just point out, none of that addresses the points that the committee lays out in the letter that they want to talk to Ivanka Trump about.

TAPPER: I also remember she referred to American patriots --

GANGEL: Correct.

TAPPER: -- when she was talking to the mob.

GANGEL: Right. And then someone clearly said something to her and she deleted that tweet.

TAPPER: Yeah, they're storming the capitol. They're trying to overturn the election. Maybe that's not so patriotic.

Jamie Gangel, thanks so much. Appreciate it. Great reporting.

After last night's defeat, a possible path forward on some form of election reform coming from Democrats and Republicans today. We'll tell you what it is, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:30:56]

TAPPER: In our politics lead today, new momentum on election reform -- just not what Democrats tried and failed to get through the Senate last night. Instead of the Freedom to Vote Act and the John Lewis Voting Rights Act, there is now a bipartisan effort to change the Electoral Count Act of 1887.

That law is archaic and confusing and on January 6th after the presidential election, lawyers for Donald Trump tried to exploit it. They told then Vice President Mike Pence he could use the Electoral Count Act as a reason to reject the election results from seven states, and, of course, there was no constitutional ability for him to do so, but the law was vague enough there is concern on Capitol Hill.

Let's bring in two former members of Congress, Republican Mia Love of Utah, Democrat Joe Kennedy of Massachusetts.

Congressman, let me start with you.

Just this past Monday, Martin Luther King Jr. Day, you tweeted, quote, no celebration without legislation. There has not been any legislation as of now.

Do you think changes to the Electoral Count Act could be enough to satisfy some advocates at least pushing for reform to voting rights?

JOE KENNEDY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I don't think it is going to be enough, Jake. I mean, look, I think it's an absolute first step. And I think it needs to happen, right? I think we should all be able to agree that -- particularly when it comes to votes after vote counting, after the votes have actually been cast, that there needs to be a strong process to maintain the integrity, make sure that whoever won the election won.

That's what this reform effort is aimed at trying to ensure, the integrity of that process. That is a critical step and a necessary step. But just because you ensure the integrity of an election doesn't give you a pass for not being able to ensure the expansion of a franchise here across the United States.

Again, the basic principle here is that every person in this country should be able to, every common person in this country should be able to cast their ballot.

TAPPER: Every legal citizen. KENNEDY: Yes, yes, thank you. But we should be trying to make sure

that people that have the ability and the legal requirements to vote should be able to do so. That is what these bills are intending to do. And that shouldn't be as partisan as unfortunately it has become.

TAPPER: So, Congresswoman, aides for Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell say he misspoke when he was asked about Democrats trying to get legislation passed on election reform. Let's play what he said that -- what his staff is saying he misspoke about.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: What is your message for voters of color who are concerned that without the John Lewis Voting Rights Act, they're not going to be able to vote in the midterm?

SEN. MITCH MCCONELL (R-KY): Well, the concern is misplaced, because if you look at the statistics, African American voters are voting in just as high a percentage as Americans. Recent survey 94 percent of Americans thought it was easy to vote. This is not a problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: In point of fact I don't think it is accurate to say African American voters are voting in as high a percentage as white Americans, but what people took umbrage is at that he said African American voters are voting in as high a percentage as Americans.

What was your reaction when you heard that? And is that revealing as critics of McConnell say of a mindset where white Americans are Americans and African Americans are African Americans?

MIA LOVE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, I've always said that we, all of us collectively, and I agree with my former colleague Joe Kennedy, that we should do everything we can to give as many people access, as many places to access voting as they possibly can. And we've got a lot of work to do in the country. What is really frustrating to me is that leader after leader is just sowing these little seeds of doubt in our electoral process.

It's now more than ever we need people to step up to the plate and say, this is how we're going to make sure that the electoral process is secure and people can have confidence in it. We've got a lot of work to do obviously.

[16:35:03]

And I think that these leaders really need to just step up to the plate and do what has to be done instead of playing this blame game back and forth and scaring the American people.

TAPPER: And, Congressman, former Senator David Perdue is running for governor against the incumbent Republican Governor Brian Kemp. Today, Perdue proposed creating an election police unit that would enforce election laws, investigate election crimes, and fraud. This follows the lead of Florida Republican Governor Ron DeSantis. I should note the department of justice found no evidence of

widespread voter fraud under the Trump administration, Attorney General Bill Barr and others.

Is there a need for an election police unit?

KENNEDY: No. There is not. To your point, Jake, this is a solution in search of a problem when in fact what you are seeing, the ability of the American electorate to cast their ballot, that is election suppression. This is clearly trying to intimidate others trying to cast their ballot and there is no reason for it, no basis for it, and it should stop.

TAPPER: And, Congresswoman, I should note Utah, your home state, it is all vote by mail. Obviously a very Republican state.

LOVE: Yes.

TAPPER: So why are so many Republicans in other states unwilling to make it so easy to vote? Doesn't seem to have had any effect on -- I wouldn't say it is the most diverse state in the nation, but it doesn't seem to have had much effect on electing Republicans in Utah?

LOVE: Well, I think it is because there are so many people worried about their narrative, what other people are going to say about them versus what is right for the American people, the people that they're closest to.

And I have to say, just recently, Davis County clerk invited people to come in and show them the process. Say this is what we're doing. This is vote by mail. Do you have any input?

So, I mean, these are -- this is the thing people should be doing and stop worrying about themselves. Worry about what's good for the American people.

TAPPER: All right. Thanks to both of you. Congresswoman Love and Congressman Kennedy, good to see you both.

Coming up next, Dr. Fauci just said what parents of children under 5 have been waiting a long time to hear.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:41:24]

TAPPER: In our health lead today, hospitalizations and deaths in the United States continue to tick up from the omicron variant and the vast majority of those straining the health care system are made up of people who have refused the life-saving vaccine. As President Biden pivots from the summer's tone of saying the virus has been beaten to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Some people may call what's happening now the new normal. I call it a job not yet finished.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: But as CNN's Omar Jimenez reports, it's not all bad news. Kids under 5 could get vaccinated sooner than we thought.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There's an air of cautious optimism in parts of the country when it comes to COVID-19.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: In New York City and other parts of New York state and in New Jersey, it has already peaked and is rather dramatically on its way down. We're seeing that also in bigger cities such as Chicago.

JIMENEZ: In Chicago, health officials announced it's past its omicron peak, despite numbers still being high in the city and statewide.

GOV. J.B. PRITZKER (D), ILLINOIS: Over the same period, ICU and ventilator usage has started to decline. I want to be clear. I am cautiously optimistic about this decline. But there are an awful lot of people still battling for their lives in hospitals across Illinois.

JIMENEZ: But it's not just Illinois. Nationwide, COVID-19 deaths are up from a week ago with the Midwest, West, and Southeast still seeing rising cases over the past two weeks. Hospitalizations are at an all time high.

DR. STEVE KOENIG, MEDICAL DIRECTOR, PULMONARY DIVISION, ST. CLAIE REGIONAL MEDICAL CENTER: It seems that because omicron in general appears to be a milder disease versus delta we're still having a lot of hospitalizations because a lot of people are affected just by the sheer numbers.

JIMENEZ: But the numbers would be higher if not for vaccinations. So far, almost a third of the country is fully vaccinated and boosted. Dr. Anthony Fauci is signaling those under 5 may get their shot within a month.

But testing remains an issue as the Biden administration officially launches its website to order free at home tests. Some states claiming this federal push is taking tests away from them.

GOV. LARRY HOGAN (R), MARYLAND: Our vendors called us late Friday to say that the White House announcement on Friday had frozen all the orders and they were taking all the tests that were going to go to us and the other states.

JIMENEZ: The Biden administration pushed back, telling CNN manufacturers may be over-promising and blaming the federal government when they come up short.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JIMENEZ (on camera): Now, we've seen many challenges to vaccine mandates here in the United States. But in Austria, the country just passed a law requiring everyone 18 or older to get a vaccine for coronavirus shot or you face a fine. That, of course, they say is to prevent a fifth COVID lockdown amid a similar surge in omicron-driven coronavirus to what we've seen here in recent weeks, Jake.

TAPPER: Omar Jimenez, thank you so much.

Let's get right to CNN's chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

Dr. Gupta, Sanjay, why has it taken so long for the FBI -- FDA to approve shots for kids under 5?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: This is -- this is a dosing thing primarily, just trying to figure out the right dose. This looks like it is going to end up being a three dose vaccine right out of the gate. Remember back and forth on the adults whether it was two or three doses. This looks like it is going to be three doses.

It's primarily really kids between the ages of 2 and 5 where they are trying to get the dosing right. It looks like they've kind of gotten the immune response they want in younger children but I think it's that older age group again between 2 and 5.

[16:45:02]

One thing to point out as well at times when there is a lot of virus circulating, it's easier to do these studies because you can get enough patients to actually figure out is the vaccine working. So over the summer and early fall not as many cases. Now there's enough of a population to really study.

So, you know, they said second quarter of 2022, sort of in the fall of last year. It's looking like that is what it is going to be still. For a while, it looked it might come sooner, but it's still looking like second quarter, next couple months before we get approval

TAPPER: I want your reaction to what president Biden said yesterday about the spike in cases, hospitalizations, and deaths not what he wants people to think of as, quote, the new normal, rather a job not yet finished.

This past summer Biden declared we were, quote, beating the virus. What happened?

GUPTA: Well, you know, it's the virus -- obviously, the numbers are very different now. In July 4th when he said that, let me show you sort of the trajectory of where we were in the country at that point. We were around sort of the lowest point. If you look at the overall trajectory, it was around 13,000 cases. Now, 59 times higher. Hospitalizations close to 10 times higher and deaths close to eight times higher. A couple things happened. Delta was already the dominant strain at

that time, going back to July 4th. But again there was around 13,000 cases a day. It was the dominant strain but not that significant.

I think two things happened. One is that it became much more dominant, delta, and then obviously we've seen what's happened with omicron. But I think a little more subjectively, Jake, there was such an emphasis, understandably, on vaccines, that I think a few other things sort of fell off a bit.

Masks, which we're now hearing about. People are going to get masks in the mail. N95 masks which are the most protective.

I think testing over all. We've not had enough data at any point to really guide some of the decisions. We saw Provincetown, people were told they didn't need to wear masks even at that point. It turns out they did.

And then therapeutics, Jake. Something you and I talked about last week. Have vaccines but need therapeutics as well. Those things will end up making a difference.

TAPPER: All right. Sanjay Gupta, thanks so much. I appreciate it.

Coming up next the former head of the Catholic Church, the pope, reacts to a new report that he allegedly tried to cover up child sexual abuse when he was younger.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:52:06]

TAPPER: In our world lead, an extensive and rather damning report commissioned by the Catholic Church itself finds that retired Pope Benedict knew the priests were abusing children when he was archbishop of Munich but he refused to act. Pope Benedict's spokesperson says he has not read the 1,000-page report yet and adds Benedict, quote, as he has many times during the years of his time as pope expressed his pain and shame for the abuses of minors.

CNN's Vatican Correspondent Delia Gallagher is live for us.

Delia, give us a sense of the scale of this investigation.

DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, the report is over 1,800 pages. It spans a time period of seven years in the archdiocese of Munich. It took two years to compile which is why in the initial responses from Pope Benedict and the Vatican, they say we need time to look into these findings because they've just received the report today.

Importantly, you know, just to give you an idea, one of the cases of the four in which Pope Benedict is implicated for mismanagement just one of those cases runs to 370 pages. So, obviously, there still needs to be a thorough sort of response to what the findings are, what exactly is involved in the mismanagement on the part of the Vatican and the part of the pope emeritus.

The other important player in this is the current archbishop of Munich, Cardinal Marx, who is a close friend and adviser to Pope Francis who is the man who called for the report in the first place, he is also implicated for mismanagement in two cases. He has said he will respond next Thursday to these findings.

So we're still in a developing stage of this story but one important aspect is this report was requested by the Catholic Church in Munich, with the awareness of course that the records of Pope Benedict and current cardinal would be scrutinized. So, now, they have the findings and now we wait and see what they say about it -- Jake.

TAPPER: If anything.

Delia Gallagher in Rome, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

President Biden now says any Russian movement across the Ukrainian border will be considered an invasion. Will that do anything to lower the temperature? We're going to talk to a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, Republican Senator Joni Ernst, next.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:59:12]

TAPPER: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

This hour, an Olympic fortress. We're taking a close look at how China is trying to keep thousands of elite athletes free from COVID in one of the most densely populated cities in the entire world.

Plus, building back in pieces. President Biden says he is willing to break up his massive $1.8 trillion Build Back Better bill into smaller chunks. Are progressives onboard? We'll ask the chair of the House Progressive Caucus.

And leading this hour, that's not what he meant. The White House and the president himself trying to clean up comments yesterday in which he appeared to give Russian President Vladimir Putin the green light after what Biden called a, quote, minor incursion into Ukraine.

The president clarifying today or attempting to do so, saying Russia will face a heavy price if it invades Ukraine.

And as CNN's Kylie Atwood reports for us now, those comments follow a rather scathing rebuke from Biden's ally, the Ukrainian president.