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The Lead with Jake Tapper

DHS Warns Convoy Could Disrupt Super Bowl Sunday; Inflation Rises 7.5 Percent In Last Year, Sharpest Rise In Nearly 40 Years; Judiciary Committee Spars Over Questions Directed At Nominees Of Color; Sources: No Record Of Trump Calls During Several Hours Of The Riot; CNN Poll: 56 Percent In U.S. Are Not Confident In Election Results, Up From 40 Percent In 2021; CNN Analysis: Why The U.S. Never Got COVID Data Right; Lumber Shortage, High Prices Partly Due To Climate Change. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired February 10, 2022 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:20]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: The last time that prices in the U.S. jumped this much, Diet Coke was a brand new soda.

THE LEAD starts right now.

Those trucker protests blocking several border crossings in Canada could be popping up in the U.S. in just days. What might that mean for the American economy?

Missing minutes. The committee investigating the January 6 attack on the Capitol says there's a gap in Donald Trump's phone records as the violence unfolded. What might Trump be hiding?

And if you're doing any home construction, you already know lumber is shockingly expensive, as much as 75 percent higher than normal. Why it's not just Biden, it's beetles you can blame.

(MUSIC)

TAPPER: Welcome to THE LEAD. .I'm Jake Tapper.

Today, we start with that trucker protest in Canada over COVID reaction mandates is making the supply chain in the U.S. ever worse. The clogged border crossings are created scenes -- creating scenes like this one. Look at that, a three-hour wait to get into the U.S. Several auto plants in Michigan are now stopping production and reducing work hours because of these protests.

Michigan's governor, Democrat Gretchen Whitmer, today calling on the Canadian government to unblock the Ambassador Bridge. That's the busiest land border crossing in North America. Whitmer saying the blockade is having a significant impact on Michigan's working families who are just trying to do their jobs.

And Whitmer is hardly alone. Several border state governors are worried that the protest could have a serious impact on their state's economy. Some Democrats are saying that these protests appear to have caught the Biden administration flat-footed. And now, the U.S. Department of Homeland Security is warning similar protests might disrupt the Super Bowl in Los Angeles this weekend.

CNN's Miguel Marquez lays out the potential financial ripple effect.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Some protesters blocking this major corridor between the U.S. and Canada say they'll risk their lives to stay out here. Three nights already, no sign of quitting.

You would risk your life rather than leave this protest?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A hundred percent. Absolutely 100 percent.

MARQUEZ: The protests now starting to bite deeply into the economy. Supply chain bottlenecks, trucks backed up for hours across this bridge at Port Huron. Automakers and part suppliers on both sides of the border starting to slow or altogether suspend production.

Windsor's mayor says while Canadians have the right to protest, patience for what he calls an illegal blockade is running thin.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There has to be a path going forward. If that's physically removing them, we're prepared to do that.

MARQUEZ: Protesters here want all Canadian coronavirus restrictions and mandates at the national level lifted before they say they'll leave.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm fighting like our veterans did for the freedom of this country, but Trudeau's taking away from us.

MARQUEZ: Prime Minister Justin Trudeau now a target over too many rules. The prime minister so far not budging.

JUSTIN TRUDEAU, CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER: Individuals are trying to blockade our economy, our democracy, and our fellow citizens' daily lives. It has to stop.

MARQUEZ: Michigan's governor demanding that the border crossing be reopened, calling the blockade unacceptable. Anti-mandate anger simmering for weeks, starting with opposition to vaccine mandates, even though government statistics show more than 80 percent of Canada's truckers are vaccinated.

Some provinces such as Saskatchewan and Quebec have recently announced plans to roll back COVID restrictions. But for those who believe the government has robbed them of their livelihoods, they say it's not enough.

You want the entire country?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not only do I want the provincial ones, I want the national ones done. I would like to see something where they can't happen again. If we can get the restrictions gone, this little bit of a disruption in our day today for the next week or two, whatever it takes, they'll thank us for it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MARQUEZ (on camera): So I want to give you a sense of how these protests are going here every day here in Windsor. The crowd really grows during the day. You probably have several hundred people out here right now. At night, most people leave, others go into their cars. But the resources are coming in both here and Windsor and the prime minister today saying that he is sending more resources, police resources to other protests in other parts of the country. Clearly, patience across Canada are running out -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Miguel Marquez, thanks so much.

These supply chain worries come as we learn inflation is near a 40- year high, climbing 7.5 percent in just 12 months.

[16:05:08]

We learned today from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. It's the steepest rise since 1982.

President Biden acknowledging that inflation is putting stress on Americans' budgets. It's also a huge political liability for President Biden. A new CNN poll shows nearly six in ten Americans disapprove of Biden's performance as president. Much of that is driven by his handling of the economy. Sixty-two percent of Americans disapprove of Biden's handling of the economy, while 37 percent approve.

CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich now looks into the growing sticker shock on everything from cars to your grocery bills.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN POLITICS AND BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): You see it at checkout, seemingly everything is more expensive. The benchmark for prices, the consumer price index, up 0.6 percent in January and 7.5 percent in the last 12 months, the highest jump in nearly 40 years.

JARED BERNSTEIN, MEMBER, COUNCIL OF ECONOMIC ADVISERS: This is a challenge that is first and foremost in our sights. We have way more work to do.

YURKEVICH: Big increases in cars, groceries and electricity year over year, and food up nearly 1 percent in January. A huge spike from December.

SUSAN KELLY, NEW YORK CITY GROCERY SHOPPER: It's a constant re- juggling of budgets to try to keep up with the food prices lately.

YURKEVICH: Gas did drop by 0.8 percent last month, but with oil prices rising, that likely won't last. And filling up your car costs 40 percent more than it did a year ago. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I used to buy about $20 for a day, but I'm buying

them about $35.

REPORTER: For the same amount?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, for the same quantity.

YURKEVICH: Last month, new all-time price records -- trucks, seafood, meals and furniture saw the highest jumps ever year over year, and used cars up a whopping 40.5 percent in the last 12 months. This because of supply chain shortages, particularly the elusive semiconductor computer chip, which means fewer new cars on the market.

PAT ROGERS, CEO, TOYOTA OF SCRANTON: We've seen anywhere from zero cars in our lot, new cars now, zero new cars in our lot to having as many as nine, 10, 12.

YURKEVICH: And now, truckers blocking a key trading route between the U.S. and Canada, cutting production at some General Motors and Ford plants, which could lead to either higher prices.

BERNSTEIN: We can't have a situation where families don't get food to their table.

YURKEVICH: And while the cost of shelter climbed less than it did in December, it's up 4.4 percent since last year. It's the largest share of monthly expense for Americans.

LAWRENCE YUN, CHIEF ECONOMIST, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF REALTORS: What is unique in the current cycle is that we have this exceptional housing shortage, not enough homes for sale, not enough apartments available for leasing, and consequently the housing costs is rising and possibly accelerating further in the upcoming months.

YURKEVICH: Inflation is not cooling down. This is where the Federal Reserve steps in. Their single greatest tool to lower consumer prices is to cool demand by raising interest rates, which they signaled would start in March.

ROGERS: On a car, it's going to be a little more difficult to cool that down, only because of lack of supply and again, the huge demand right now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

YURKEVICH (on camera): Some good economic news, GDP is up, unemployment is low, and wages are rising. But it's not keeping up with the rising inflation that we are seeing. Moody's Analytics estimates that U.S. households are spending on average $250 more every month.

So everyday consumers, Jake, they don't feel things like GDP. They feel what's happening with their wallets. That's why these rising prices on everyday items is causing many Americans to still sour on the economy -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Vanessa Yurkevich, thanks so much.

Let's bring in Rana Foroohar. She's a CNN global analyst and associate editor at "The Financial Times". Also, of course, Richard Quest, CNN business editor at large.

Richard, first to you. Let's look at some of these price spikes at all-time highs -- furniture, new cars, appliances, restaurant meals, not to mention just sticker shock on other items such as used cars, up 40 percent. Gasoline up 40 percent. Electricity up almost 11 percent year to year.

We've watched these prices going up for months. What seems to be driving this?

RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR AT LARGE: Two factors. Firstly, the supply chain that we talked about. You and I have talked about, basically the crunch from China to here. Not enough containers, not enough ships, not enough ports, vastly increased demand because people working from home.

And don't forget those who weren't laid off have got disposable income to spend so people, the consumer, is very busy. And that's the other side. This is economics 101.

You know the oldest rule, when demand chases supply, prices go up. And that's what you're seeing. Consumers with money buying more stuff, supplies can't get it to you. And you have this depressing cycle, this spiral that just goes on.

[16:10:05]

And I'll tell you why it's particularly worrying, because eventually this feeds through to wages. People naturally, Jake, want more higher wages, because they're paying more for everything. And the Fed comes in, puts interest rates up, and it all continues.

TAPPER: So, Rana, there's another -- there's another factor I'm wondering about. 3M is the company at that makes N95 face masks in addition to adhesives and all sorts of office supplies. According to a transcript of their earnings call in January, company executives applauded their own company for raising prices. The CFO saying, quote: The team has done a marvelous job in driving price.

Obviously, what Richard said is accurate in terms of issues, but I'm also wondering how much prices are going up because of corporate greed and companies and CFOs and CEOs taking advantage of this moment?

RANA FOROOHAR, CNN GLOBAL ECONOMIC ANALYST: Well, you know, it's a great question and it's a question that the Biden administration has been asking. You know, you've seen in recent weeks the White House saying that there is too much concentration of power in various industries, that companies have gotten too big, that they do have too much power over the economy. And that's something that I think that you're going to see continue as inflation continues throughout the rest of the year. But, you know, Jake, there's also another factor that's important and

that's politics. The blockade that you're seeing at the Canadian border is indicative of what we're going to see going forward. Richard mentioned supply chain issues with China. Some of those are about COVID but some are about a fundamental decoupling that's happening in the world now. It's not going to be smooth sailing the way that it has been the last 20 years. I think we're entering a period where political conflict is going to play a part in keeping prices higher.

TAPPER: And, Rana, we saw sharp spikes in the '70s and '80s when inflation was hovering around 15 percent. But you say we're in a completely different economic scenario now?

FOROOHAR: Yeah, the '70s has something to do with today in the sense that that's the last time that we saw inflation this high. You had, you know, the central banks coming in and having to really kick rates up, which, of course, sent the economy into a tailspin. We don't want to see that now. We certainly don't want to see it. The Biden administration doesn't want to see it before the midterms.

But I think the factors in play are much more complicated than they were in the '70s. I think that COVID just threw a spammer in everything because it created this sort of bull whip effect where you get delays in one country, China, let's say, and you feel them months later in Europe and the U.S. So it's really volatile the next few months.

TAPPER: Richard, the trucker protests in Canada, how disruptive do you think they're going to be to the U.S. supply chain?

QUEST: Enormously, absolutely. Remember, these are companies that built their supply chain on just in time, close distribution, easy access. And now, you've literally stopped that.

I think -- I've never -- I think the issue here is we are about to go into an economic scenario that -- pardon the phrase -- only old fools like me remember back in the '70s and '80s, where there's an entire generation that has no idea of what a full interest rate cycle looks like, where you have rate up, rate up, rate up, rate up. Gosh, we're not going to get to 8, 9 percent in rates, but 4s are 5, maybe 5 percent interest rates for a period of time, and it becomes more difficult and borrowing becomes more difficult.

I don't want to be depressing. But we are moving into a new environment as the Fed shows its teeth and starts to take a bite out of inflation.

TAPPER: Richard Quest, Rana Foroohar, thanks so much.

Switching to our politics lead now. On a day of terrible numbers for President Biden, inflation and the brand new CNN poll showing six in ten Americans disapproving of his job as president, Mr. Biden is hoping to pivot to a more positive and familiar topic. Any minute, he is set to meet with members of the Senate Judiciary Committee to talk about his next Supreme Court nominee.

Joining us now is the chairman of that committee, Senator Dick Durbin from Illinois. He's also the Senate majority whip.

Mr. Chairman, good to see you.

President Biden was on the Judiciary Committee when he was a senator, he was chair as well. This morning his chief of staff, Ron Klain, made it a point to say how excited Biden was for this meeting with you and your committee.

Do you have a specific suggestion of who you would like -- whom rather you would like him to pick?

SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL): No. I'm not going to be giving a plus or minus to any nominee. That's the president's job. He has a good list and I'm sure it's more expansive than the public even knows. I just hope he does his job, does it well and does it quickly. We're anxious to get started in the Senate Judiciary Committee.

TAPPER: Your committee has been sparring over the tone of questions directed at judicial nominees of color. Today, Democratic Committee member, Senator Alex Padilla of California, called Republican lines of questioning demeaning, offensive and just plain wrong.

Utah Republican Senator Mike Lee said the insinuations of racial bias against Republicans on the committee were, quote, the very sort of comment that would incite people to anger, acts of retaliation and violence, unquote.

[16:15:09]

Are you worried at all that this is a preview for the nomination hearing for the next Supreme Court nominee who we know will be a woman of color?

DURBIN: Jake, I'm just a bridge over troubled waters trying to make sure that both Republicans and Democrats work together. There are moments of stress and tension in the committee. But this is an historic responsibility. I hope we can comport ourselves professionally and show respect for whoever the nominee will be.

TAPPER: Do you agree that some of the Republicans on the committee have been using code words? There was one reference to somebody having a rap sheet, an African American nominee. The rap sheet with some parking tickets from several years ago.

What's your take on all of this?

DURBIN: That was an unfortunate reference. It wasn't a rap sheet, as we characteristically know it, but I'm going to put that behind us. We've got to look forward.

The nominee coming will be an African American woman as the president has promised America. I believe that she will be well-qualified. I'm anxious to find out the details about her professional life, but I'll guarantee you this. She will not have reached this stage in life without breaking records and showing some remarkable achievements.

So I'm sure it's going to be a good nominee.

TAPPER: Republicans such as Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina have been vocally backing Judge Childs from South Carolina.

How much do you think bipartisan support should weigh in on President Biden's decision?

DURBIN: Well, I'm sure it will be part of it. But Judge Childs is being considered for a circuit court position in the federal judiciary even before this vacancy. So she is an extraordinary person herself.

Lindsey is a good politician. He's playing to the home base, and I believe he has picked a person of good quality. I think that Senator Scott is going to join him in the selection.

But the bottom line is the president has to take into consideration this is an historic choice. It goes beyond this Senate and his term in office. And the person he chooses has to serve our nation for a long time to come.

TAPPER: Let's talk about inflation now because it's at a 40-year high and I'm sure you're hearing a lot from your constituents about it.

Your Democratic colleague, Senator Joe Manchin, told a West Virginia radio show that the problem of inflation is, quote, self-inflicted in his view because of Democrats' massive spending packages. He says while Biden's social spending plan is well-intentioned, the United States is not in a financial place to take it on.

It sounds like Manchin doesn't think Democrats will fare well in the midterms if inflation isn't under control soon.

DURBIN: Listen, inflation is a problem for families, it's a problem for our nation and it's a political problem on top of all that. We see it every time we drive past the filling station and look at the price of a gallon of gas, for example. It's a real challenge.

The combination of this inflation with a pandemic is really weighing heavily on American population. I hope we turn the corner soon when it comes to inflation and I hope we turn it as well when it come also putting the omicron variant behind us. When we do, I think there are good times ahead.

There are positive indicators coming out of this economy. For example, the number of people seeking jobs and the level of economic activity and the growth of our economy are all positive things. We've got to get past this inflationary challenge.

TAPPER: There's a new CNN poll today with not great news for President Biden and the Democrats in terms of job approval. Strikingly, 56 percent of respondents in our poll who disapprove of Biden's job, says he's made zero moves that they approve of, zero. Not on coronavirus, not on the economy, not even on getting a cat.

Do you think President Biden is doing everything he can to reach these voters? DURBIN: Listen, Jake, we're in the doldrums at this point and I think

it really all relates back to that inflation situation together with the pandemic. I believe we're going to come through and there will be some sunshine on the other side.

It basically is going to take some time, but we're moving in the right direction. The fundamentals for this economy, but for inflation, and that's as big exception, are really positive.

TAPPER: Senator Dick Durbin from the land of Lincoln, thanks so much, sir. Good to see you. Have a good meeting at the White House.

DURBIN: Thanks, Jake.

TAPPER: Who was on the phone? That's the question the January 6 Committee is trying to find out now that we know there's a huge gap in Trump's phone records from that day.

And a look at why climate change is making it much more expensive to build homes. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:23:32]

TAPPER: In our politics lead, several hours of mystery. Congressional investigators are stumped and as of now stonewalled. They're trying to figure out exactly what then President Trump was saying and doing behind the scenes on January 6, 2021, specifically when the viral mob was spiraling out of control on Capitol Hill.

At issue is a giant gap of knowledge from the end of Trump's rally to the moment that Trump sent that video telling his supporters to go home.

Let's get right to CNN's Jamie Gangel.

And, Jamie, congressional investigators have some phone records, but apparently they don't have a record of calls made to or from Trump during a specific period. How long is the gap and what might it mean?

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: It appears the gap is at least three hours, maybe longer than that. What's notable as you said is it's while the riot is going on. There is no suggestion that someone tampered with the White House official record, so what could be the explanation? Donald Trump was known to like to use a personal cell phone.

So if he used a personal cell phone, that wouldn't be in the records. He also used aide's phones, particularly Dan Scavino or his personal aide, Nick Luna. Maybe he was using their phones. Maybe he just didn't talk to too many people. Maybe he was so transfixed watching the television, hitting rewind. It's also possible there are more documents coming from the National Archives, Jake.

A source familiar with the investigation told me the committee has not drawn any final conclusions based on this gap, but it does raise the question, is there a possibility they will revisit the issue of whether or not to subpoena Donald Trump's personal phone records.

TAPPER: Well, that's -- you know, what is the chance that's going to happen? I'm going to for the moment avoid pointing out that Donald Trump won in 2016 going after Hillary Clinton not abiding by protocols when it comes to phone records or email servers in her instance. But beyond that, are -- is there the willingness on the committee to do that?

GANGEL: They have been reticent thus far. But to your point, this wasn't a secret to Donald Trump. He campaigned on it with Hillary Clinton. I think the issue here is it's not just that Donald Trump was likely using a personal cell phone. It's that the people around him were using personal cell phones that are not on these logs.

A former White House official said to me -- I said, why did they let him get away with this? He said Donald Trump did not think the rules applied to him, and that passed to the staff.

So I think the committee hasn't wanted to go there. But if they see a reason to do it, I don't think it's ruled out.

TAPPER: All right. Jamie Gangel, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Given all of Trump's big lie rhetoric, the big question now, do Americans still have faith in the election process? New CNN poll results on that. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:31:19]

TAPPER: Breaking right now, new CNN polls on how Americans feel about the state of American democracy and whether they trust the election systems. The results are concerning.

Let's get right to CNN senior data reporter, Harry Enten.

And, Harry, CNN is asking how confident are you that the elections in America today reflect the will of the people since last year. How has that number evolved over the past few months?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: You know, you said concerning, I would argue depressing. You know, we essentially asked, you know, how confident are you that these elections will reflect the will of the people. If you look back in 2021 in January, what you saw was a majority said that they were confident that elections reflected the will of the people, 59 percent. But that dropped to 48 percent in September of 2021 and now it's just 44 percent say yes, the majority now say no at 56 percent. So very depressing.

But I think what's also interesting is the groups that have changed. So I don't think it's that much of a surprise that Republicans feel that elections don't reflect the will of the people and that's exactly what our polling showed. But compare that to back in January of 2021. You can see that Republicans have stayed the same, not confident that U.S. elections reflect the will of the people at 74 percent. But Democrats and Democratic leaners, only 13 percent in January of 2021 said that they were not confident that elections reflected the will of the people.

That has jumped 20 points to 33 percent. So, now, it's not just the majority of Republicans that are not confident, it's a substantial portion of Democrats who are not confident as well.

TAPPER: Right. Well, two things have happened since then. There have been a number of efforts by states to make it tougher to vote and, two, you've had a lot of Democrat politicians, Democratic politician saying that, you know, this is the new Jim Crow era, a lot of Democrats bad mouthing elections in addition to those new restrictive laws. What role, though, do you think January 6 has in the public sentiment? Will the committee investigating the insurrection, will it help or will it hurt this problem?

ENTEN: I think it might help a little bit, right? You know, essentially, if you ask folks how they feel about the January 6 commission, committee, is it going to be a fair essentially hearing, what we do see is that the plurality do, in fact, say, yes, it's going to be a fair investigation, 44 percent. But, look, 36 percent say it's a one-sided effort to blame Trump. And then there's a key 20 percent who basically say they haven't heard enough.

So there are a lot of folks who really aren't paying so much attention to a lot of this stuff. I think if you also essentially look at how people think that the committee and their findings may in fact help, will it help strengthen democracy, what we see in our poll is that only 37 percent say it's likely that the select committee will help to protect American democracy. The vast -- the clear majority either believe no, it will not help, or 13 percent say January 6 not a problem. I don't know who those folks are, but they're out there.

TAPPER: Half the people believes American democracy is under attack, American democracy. Who exactly are these people m?

ENTEN: People like me. People like me who are young. My folks -- folks in my generation just don't get it.

If you look at our poll, there is just such a large age gap here. Who believed democracy was under attack? Just 31 percent of those age 18 to 34. Folks like my mother, 77 percent age 65 and over believe that democracy is under attack. This is about as large of an age gap as I've seen on any particular issue.

And also, I think this is really interesting. If you ask folks whether or not they believe democracy is under attack and you go essentially by whether or not they think that the 2020 election was legitimate, 69 percent of those who thought that Biden's win was not legitimate, they believe that democracy is under attack. Just 42 percent of those who think Biden legitimately won believe democracy is under attack.

[16:35:06] And I think that really just goes against the grain because you would think that those who believed that Biden was legitimately won and saw the January 6 attack and hear all this rhetoric, you'd think it's those folks who are most concerned. It's actually the other folks who are more concerned.

TAPPER: All right. Harry Enten, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Coming up, a look at one thing the United States got really wrong about the pandemic, something that could haunt health officials in the future.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our health lead today, as we near the end of the omicron wave, we hope, and officials begin to lift mask mandates and other restrictions, a brand new CNN analysis shows that the COVID data relied upon to make decisions is faulty and has been that way since the beginning of the pandemic.

[16:40:14]

Let's discuss this with CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

Sanjay, lay this out for us, Sanjay. What is it and how concerning is it?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this has been, you know, a challenge, I think, as reporters trying to report on what is happening with the pandemic because the data has been so hard to sort of parse through. And we have an incredible team of producers who have been doing that. But part of the challenge really, besides the fact that we haven't had enough testing, the original sin that we've talked about, really, the lack of sort of national leadership.

So many states were sort of reporting this data. There wasn't necessarily a federal clearing house to look at that data, that made it really challenging. I mean, you know, when kids started getting vaccinated, it took a month for the dashboard to be updated.

Inefficient data systems, there could be six steps between the states and the feds to determine if something was -- somebody had actually died a COVID death and to have that reported, and then just significant inconsistencies overall, Jake.

Some examples -- if a single individual came back positive several times, was that three separate positives or was that one positive? It sounds like a simple question, right, but states handled that sort of thing differently. States did not always parse out PCR versus antigen testing.

So, you know, we as reporters had to constantly be looking at this ourselves because the data was not forthcoming. And, you know, so many decisions were getting made on that faulty data as well and that is a real frustration that has continued.

TAPPER: So considering all those inefficiencies and all the questions about the reliability of the data, is now the right time for all these states to lift their mask mandates and ease restrictions?

GUPTA: Well, it's part of the issue. We're flying blind a little bit when it comes to many of these different metrics. You know, we know that the numbers are still very high, but they're coming down. We know that if you look at the CDC projections, 61,000 people are still sadly expected to die over the next four weeks, Jake. These are astounding numbers still.

But at the same time the numbers seem to be coming down. I think that's why hospitalization data has been in some ways the truest data. It's much more accountable. Although even that, you know, in some states, they were counting with COVID as opposed to diagnosed with COVID after they got into the hospital.

So, it was -- it was all these different sort of metrics that make it difficult. I think what we're seeing now in the United States is with the numbers coming down, people are trying to project when are they going to be at a point where hospitalizations are not going to be so high and hospitals aren't overwhelmed.

But we're also looking to places like Denmark. Denmark sort of basically lifted restrictions on February 1st. It's a good example maybe of what might happen here, hospitalizations and deaths sort of creeping up again.

I hope that doesn't happen here, but you've also got to keep in mind, Denmark, roughly 80 percent of the population vaccinated. We're closer to the mid-60s.

TAPPER: According to a new CNN poll, Americans are quite divided on what they think is the best approach to take on the pandemic going forward. Fifty-one percent say it's time to learn to live with the virus, 48 percent say the highest priority should be stopping the spread of the virus.

What do you make of that?

GUPTA: Well, it won't surprise you that the answer is really a combination of both those things. I think what surprised me was just how starkly divided along political lines as well. I mean, there hasn't been anything during this pandemic that you could disentangle from politics. But when it comes to this particular issue, look at that, 73 percent of Democrats, stopping the spread should be the highest priority, 72 percent of Republicans, it's time to learn to live with the virus.

But both things can be true. I mean, we still need to slow down the spread, considering we're 100,000 people in the hospital and there's still a lot of virus spreading. But it's pretty clear and has been since spring of 2020 that this virus was here to stay. So we do have to learn to live with it. The question is, what are we willing to accept? Right now, Jake, if you look at people who have young children, children who cannot be vaccinated, people who have someone in their household who's immune-compromised, a significant issue, health care workers. They really are still focused on trying to slow the spread of this because they see what's happening and what's possible in terms of the impact of that spread.

TAPPER: All right. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks so much.

Coming up, why beetles may be one of the reasons behind soaring lumber prices.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:49:38]

TAPPER: In our "Earth Matters" series today, skyrocketing housing prices are not just due to supply chain issues or a shortage of homes for sale. Climate change is also to blame. Years of devastating wildfires and destructive insects are leveling forests worldwide, wreaking havoc on the timber and lumber needed to build homes.

But as CNN's Bill Weir shows us now, there might be a solution.

[16:50:03]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BILL WEIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If the definition of inflation is too many dollars chasing not enough goods, well, this is what happens when too many houses chase not enough wood.

How would you characterize the price of lumber today?

JOHN RIDDLE, VP, TURNING LEAF CUSTOM HOMES: Volatile. Yeah, it is up and down. It got to the point we were just adding 20 to 30 percent just because and hopefully that would cover it.

WEIR: It's all they can talk about at the National Association of Home Builders Convention in Orlando this week, starting with a sticker poll.

JERRY HOWARD, CEO, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF HOME BUILDERS: Down here is one person who said it's been 75 percent. At a normal time if the cost of a building material were to increase by 75 percent, people would be coming unglued. But look what it is, most of them are 200 percent or more.

WEIR: There are a few reach reasons why, but the problem begins in the Canadian Rockies. The source of almost one in every three boards hammered into American homes and where a plague of beetles arrived with the power to kill 100,000 trees a day, so many you could hear them over the phone.

JANICE COOKE, FOREST BIOLOGIST: You could actually hear the beetles underneath the bark. I'm listening to my trees being killed.

WEIR: Oh my God.

Forest biologist Janice Cooke has studied the invasion of mountain pine beetles for decades. Just one effect of an overheating planet.

COOKE: Warmer over winters and hotter, drier summers, we saw those populations not only rise to epidemic levels but in some areas hyper- epidemic.

WEIR: Mountain pine beetles attack a single tree like an invading army. And to defend itself, the lodge pole pine fills its cracks with this sticky chemical compound we know as pitch. Well, this turns out to be highly flammable.

So in the end, if the beetles win, you've got a 50-foot fire starter. Beetle-killed forests helped accelerate those western mega fires. Altogether, 50 million acres have been lost up here, an area the size of Minnesota.

COOKE: We have more than 30 mill closures in the interior of B.C. alone. Mills are not running 24/7 anymore.

WEIR: In the meantime, there is the 40-year-old trade war with the United States. Based on an old formula, tariffs on Canadian wood automatically doubled recently.

Joe Biden could dial those back, but like Canada, he's also protecting more federal trees, especially the old growth stands in places like Tongass National Forest.

HOWARD: The Biden administration has cut back on the harvesting of timber on our federal lands so we need more lumber from outside. The Biden administration has not gone to the table to negotiate a long- term deal with Canada. So once again we've got to look somewhere else. In fact we've opened up discussions with the German government about bringing in more from Germany.

WEIR: And more builders like John Riddle in Winter Park, Florida, are finding lumber alternatives by injecting these stackable foam molds with concrete. He says he creates walls 50 percent more energy efficient and 100 percent more fireproof. This seems to me, as we watch zoning regulations change in California

due to wildfires, like an amazing solution.

RIDDLE: Yeah, that doesn't burn.

WEIR: Right.

RIDDLE: Concrete won't burn. In my mind there's no reason why this is not more prevalent in our country.

WEIR: Why do you think it isn't?

RIDDLE: You know, builders like to do what they always do. WEIR: But the housing crisis is growing at the same time as the

climate crisis -- when science says we need all the mature forests we can possibly save.

COOKE: This is the business case for considering our forests and our trees in our forests for their entire ecosystem services and not just the price of a two by four.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WEIR (on camera): And that's the thing. That's the rub these days. Just as the planet runs out of resources, demand is skyrocketing right now, Jake.

And President Biden could, you know, work with 5 or 10 percent on these new tariffs. Donald Trump did the same thing. But long term trees are going to be even more valuable going forward. Whether it's coffee beans or chocolate or avocados or any other thing that makes life worth living, it looks like we're going to have to get used to the term climate inflation.

TAPPER: All right. Bill Weir with our latest in "Earth Matters". Thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Coming up, they have been working nine to five. But thanks to Dolly Parton, they are also getting a chance to go to college.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:59:20]

TAPPER: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

This hour, a Texas-size problem amidst a huge surge in illegal immigration at the Texas border. Republican Governor Greg Abbott sent a bunch of national guardsmen to try to help tackle the problem. But now, in a CNN investigation, some of the guardsmen are opening up and risking their careers, calling Abbott's decision political theater.

Plus, forget the trash can. New reports say Donald Trump threw key documents in the toilet. And bad bathroom protocol is the least of the offenses. Now, the Justice Department is involved.

And breaking news leading this hour. Just moments ago, NBC released a clip from Lester Holt's pre-Super Bowl interview with President Biden. And the clip focused on Biden's upcoming Supreme Court nomination.

Let's get to CNN's MJ Lee who's live for us at the White House.

So, MJ, what did President Biden have to say?