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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Putin Recognizes Parts Of Eastern Ukraine As Independent State; White House: Biden To Impose New Sanctions On Trade And Financing In Two Pro-Moscow Ukraine Territories; FDA Says Fourth Coronavirus Dose Could Be Needed In The Fall; Error Messages Plague Rollout Of Trump's New Social Media App; Canada Freezes Financial Funding Illegal Protests Near U.S. Border. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired February 21, 2022 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:25]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: With the stroke of a pen, Putin makes his first move.

THE LEAD starts right now.

Fast moving developments in the Ukraine crisis. Russian President Putin just decided to recognize two areas of the Ukraine as independent. Now, President Biden declares economic sanctions on those regions.

Then, how about another COVID shot with a flu chaser next fall? Health officials now discussing the timing of a possible fourth dose of the vaccine.

And if you can't physically force them out, how about just taking away their resources? Canadian officials want to cut off funding of the trucker-inspired protests.

Welcome to a special edition of THE LEAD. I'm Pamela Brown, in for Jake Tapper.

And we begin today with breaking news in our world lead, and a move by Russian President Vladimir Putin that Western leaders are already condemning as a breach of international law. This afternoon, Putin signed documents officially recognizing two parts of Ukraine as independent territories.

Russia has been purposefully destabilizing the regions for years, arming and financing separatists, and an eight-year war that has cost 14,000 lives. And moments ago we just learned President Biden spoke with Ukraine's president after Putin's announcement, and the White House has just released a statement previewing an executive order and new sanctions in response to Putin.

Our team of reporters are on the ground in the region covering all these angles. Clarissa Ward is in Kyiv, Ukraine, Alex Marquardt is in Zaporizhzhia, Ukraine, and Jill Dougherty in Moscow.

But let's start with CNN's MJ Lee at the White House.

MJ, what can you tell us about the White House reaction to this move by Vladimir Putin?

MJ LEE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Pam, this is the first formal reaction we have gotten from the White House in response to Putin saying that it would recognize -- Russia would recognize the independence of these two separatist regions in eastern Ukraine. White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki just released a statement saying President Biden is preparing to sign a new executive order.

The statement says that it would prohibit new investment, trade, and financing by Americans to, from, and in that region. It also said that this executive order would allow the U.S. to sanction anybody that is operating in that region. Jen Psaki made clear in this statement that all of this would be in addition to other actions that the United States has been preparing to take if Russia goes through with an invasion of Ukraine.

And we know that throughout this crisis, U.S. officials at the highest levels have been in touch with their counterparts in Ukraine, and we know that earlier this afternoon, the White House announced that President Biden again spoke with the Ukrainian president. It was a phone call that lasted some 35 minutes, though we don't have owe full readout of that conversation yet. Just in the last hour, we also know President Biden convened another phone call with the leaders of Germany and Britain as well.

So, we know that these phone calls are happening, these phone calls with world leaders. And this flurry of activity, of course, is going on as the U.S. is trying to figure out whether Russia is in fact going to invade Ukraine. But everything, all the language that we heard over the weekend, is that things are incredibly serious, and U.S. officials are now warning that if Russia were to invade, it would be incredibly violent -- Pam.

BROWN: Yeah, the president's national security adviser, Jake Sullivan, did not mince the national security adviser did not mince words on that.

MJ Lee at the White House, thank you.

And let's go live to our team reporters in Russia and Ukraine now.

Jill, I want to go to you first. What is your reaction to those sanctions that Biden is reportedly going to put in place? We want to note, these are limited sanctions. These are not the sanctions we have been hearing from U.S. officials that they were threatening to put in place. This is more limited, Jill. Is this really going to deter Putin in any way?

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, these obviously would not, but I guess there must be some reason. I mean, how many American business people are doing business in Luhansk People's Republic? But I think, obviously, as they're saying, there are more sanctions to come. I can tell you, Pam, that this was really a dramatic moment, because

we all knew by the afternoon that President Putin would be signing this recognition of those two breakaway regions, but we didn't expect there would be basically an hour-long recitation of history of Ukraine the way Vladimir Putin sees it, which is essentially boils down to, look, Ukraine isn't even a country.

[16:05:11]

It was created by ripping away pieces of Russia to create Ukraine. And then he broadened it out. He talked about NATO and essentially said that it is Russia that is being surrounded by NATO, and we -- we are the enemy to them. So it went much further. I think the last part where he says Kyiv -- the Kyiv regime as they call it, the Ukrainian government, has to immediately stop this military action, or else all responsibility for any continual bloodshed will be entirely on the conscience of the Ukraine regime.

So that was quite chilling. And I think, you know, looking back at what this means, I think it is setting the scene and maybe in a kind of -- in his interpretation, legal -- although that's in quotes -- basis for doing more. The point is, we just don't know what that precisely will be.

BROWN: Right, and on that note, I want to go to you, Clarissa, because as Jill pointed out, the speech today by president Putin went far beyond the moment of recognizing the independence of the Donbas region, which is still significant. But he went far beyond that. In Ukraine, is there a sense that they are bracing for a larger conflict to take place, that this was just the precursor setting the stage for something bigger to happen?

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, President Volodymyr Zelensky is meeting with his security council now. You can be sure they'll be releasing a statement. He also spoke to President Biden. He's scheduled to Prime Minister Boris Johnson as well.

But make no mistake about it, exactly what Jill said is true. This was an extraordinary speech, 57 minutes in which frankly the headline was not that President Putin would violate international law and end the Minsk agreements by announcing that he recognized the independence of these two breakaway republics. The headline was that he very clearly appeared to be laying the ground work for doing much more, as Jill said.

He completely negated the idea that Ukraine is even a sovereign nation. He talked about it as a country that has no history of statehood. He referred to the government here as being a colony run by a puppet regime. He accused the Ukrainian military of carrying out a blitzkrieg in Donbas even though there is zero evidence to support this. He talked about guerrilla terrorist activity taking place in Donbas as well.

And really you had the sense by the end of the speech that this was less about recognize Donetsk and Luhansk and more about potentially paving the away for future military action. Now, the question, Pamela, which is so crucial, becomes, is this

simply a strategy to go to the negotiating table now and say, I've recognized it, but I haven't an annexed it yet. And if you give me some concessions, then potentially I am willing to hold off, or is it a decision that's been made that they will go ahead with some kind of military incursion? But I know many analysts watching this speech tonight had a shiver run down their spines. It was much more grim and much more ominous than I think many had expected, it might be just some perfunctory remarks acknowledging and recognizing these two breakaway republics and leaving it at that.

But essentially I think a lot of people here now are bracing themselves for what comes next. Is there another shoe to drop, or is this diplomacy -- a real hardball version of diplomacy?

BROWN: Right, and Alex there's been an increase in violence in eastern Ukraine. The Russian military is calling it Ukrainian sabotage. Ukraine is calling it disinformation. If you would, tell us, what is really happening on the ground?

ALEXANDER MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, this violence that we've seen spoke over the last few days is now raising fears that Putin could use that as a pretext for a larger scale invasion. I mean, of course, Putin formalized the relationship tonight between Moscow and those two breakaway enclaves. The Kremlin has in the past denied their support for them militarily. Of course, we know that to be true.

So, you know, what you could have now, because there is also this signing of an agreement of mutual assistance, you could hear from the leaders of those breakaway enclaves, calling on Russia to come in and bring the military to help them against this Ukrainian offensive that they accuse Ukraine of carrying out.

[16:10:05]

Then you would have Russian forces on this breakaway territory that Russia could then use as a pretext if they claim that they are hurt for going into Ukraine further. You heard Jill read that really ominous line that President Putin ended his speech with, saying that the bloodshed would be on the hands of the regime in Ukraine.

Now, we have already seen today accusations by Moscow that Ukraine sent a sabotage team into Russian territory that fought with their border guards. We saw accusations that Ukraine fired into Russian territory on a guard house. We have no way of verifying that. Ukraine denies it. But, Pam, this list of potential pretext, which, you know, NATO and Ukraine see as potential false flag operations, really is growing.

We've seen the leaders of these breakaway enclaves claim that they need to evacuate their citizens. Thousands of people pouring into Russia because of what they claim is a Ukrainian offensive that we have seen no evidence of. This agreement now between president Putin and these two breakaway areas really raising fears that this really will act as an excuse, as that pretext for Russia to further invade Ukraine.

BROWN: Yeah, that it's just the going.

All right. Clarissa, Alex, Jill, thank you very much.

Are the sanctions President Biden is about to issue enough after Putin makes his first move? That's next. We're going to discuss that.

And then, what sparked the brawl at the end of a college basketball game? That's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Welcome back.

In our world lead, today, Russian President Vladimir Putin signed documents recognizing two areas in Ukraine's eastern Donbas region as independent states. This area has had substantial backing from Moscow and has been led by pro-Russian separatists for years.

Now, President Biden is reacting. The White House announcing a looming executive order and sanctions in response to Putin.

Let's discuss with the former CIA chef of Russian operations, Steve Hall. CNN global affairs analyst Susan Glasser. She served as "The Washington Post" Moscow bureau chief. And retired Brigadier General Peter Zwack, he was a senior defense official and attache to the Russia Federation when Russia invaded Crimea in 2014.

Susan, let's start with you. The White House says President Biden will sign an executive order putting sanctions on anyone who operates in the region. This is not part of the bigger package we have been hearing about.

Do these limited sanctions have teeth to do anything much at all to deter Putin?

SUSAN GLASSER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: They're not the kind of sanctions that are designed for deterrence. They're a response to an action that's been take by Putin.

Obviously, this was something the Biden administration was prepared to do. They understood all along that was going to be part of Putin's playbook. That's why they were able to roll it out right away, hours from Putin making this announcement.

You know, the question is really, what kind of escalation Putin still has in mind for this play that he's inviting us all to observe. And so that part is still unfolding. There are still 190,000 military force strong surrounding Ukraine on three sides at this point. So I think we should see this as a stage in a still unfolding drama.

BLACKWELL: General, CNN's Dana Bash asked Secretary of State Blinken last month what the U.S. would do in this exact situation. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Would seizing or recognizing the entire Donbas region qualify as an invasion and result in the crippling sanctions that you're threatening?

ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: If a single additional Russian force goes into Ukraine in an aggressive way, as I said, that would trigger a swift, severe, and united response from us and from Europe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: General, do you think now is the time for the U.S. to impose the larger sanction package rather than what was announced today?

BRIG. GEN. PETER ZWACK (RET.), U.S. ARMY: Good afternoon. Serious times.

My question, I am -- I have been against at this stage before about imposing sanctions, but I'm at a tipping point right now. The Russians, the Kremlin seems to be relentless, implacable, and they're not going to stop. And I support now a first round as they've discussed, targeted sanctions, aimed primarily at those linked to Luhansk and Donetsk. However, key players in Russia as well that are supporting it.

So I'm not for the full package yet, but it's time to fire the sanctions shot across the bow.

BROWN: And, you know, I want to go to you, Steve, on what we've just laid down and what Susan said about this being Putin's play, and we don't know what acts are to come. The bottom line though is what we do know there's a massive Russian troop buildup all around Ukraine. Do you really expect Putin to stop with the Donbas region given how forceful he was in his speech today claiming Ukraine belongs to Russia, talking about the Russian empire and so forth?

STEVE HALL, FORMER CIA CHIEF OF RUSSIA OPERATIONS: Tom, right now, Vladimir Putin is like a toddler with a big army. He's testing boundaries. As toddlers are want to do.

So, we told him, if you invade Ukraine really bad things are going to happen. You're going to go into time-out.

[16:20:02]

And what's happened is, he said, okay, how about this, I'm just going recognize these two little parts of Ukraine, not call them Ukraine any longer, and then if I send troops in there, will I be in time-out? Will I be sanctioned? Will I be in trouble?

So, it's really too soon to tell. It would be simple because we saw this in Georgia with those two northern states that are now nominally independent, Ossetia and Abkhazia. We've seen this before.

It would certainly be a good stepping off point for the Russian army to be already Donetsk and Luhansk, and then be able to move in from there. But he's got tons of troops surrounding and country, so he could do that anywhere.

So, right now, I think he's testing the West. He's going to say, ok, we're going to do this, and let's see what happens. And this is how this feels to most Ukrainians.

If the Mexican government sent in Mexican operatives to El Paso and said, hey, make a big stink and we'll come in and save you guys, because let's face it, Texas was part of Mexico to begin with. So, we're just going to take it all back and don't worry about it. We'll support you.

That's how this feels to Ukrainians now. So, we'll see whether Putin says, yeah, we're going further or if he's going hold there for a while.

BROWN: Yeah, we're all watching at the edge of our seats all of this unfold.

And, you know, Susan, last night, we were talking about the news of the potential summit. The White House says that Biden agreed in principle to meet with Putin as long as Russia does not further invade Ukraine.

Given this new development for Putin, do you think a summit still stands a chance in?

SUSAN GLASSER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: I wouldn't expect President Biden to be meeting with Vladimir Putin any time soon. That speech today was an extraordinary attack on the world order that has existed and that Russia is a signatory to and a participant in since the end of the Cold War. Vladimir Putin today said in as stark and alarming terms as I've heard him, that not only the breakup of the Soviet Union is what he's about revising here, but Ukraine does not have to legitimacy to exist as an independent state.

It was a very aggressive speech, highly unlikely with just the mere paper takeover of Donetsk Republic. So, I would stay tune, but not for a summit between the two leaders.

BROWN: Yeah, it was an aggressive speech. He clearly agree, and went far beyond the moment of justifying the announcing the independence of Putin's side of these two regions.

So, we'll continue to watch all this. Thank you all very much.

The flu shot may not be the only shot you get this fall. Well, Americans could start signing up for a fourth dose of the COVID vaccine.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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BROWN: In our health lead, is a COVID booster the new flu shot? The FDA says it's considering whether it will need to authorize another dose of the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines for the general republic. Approval for the second booster would come as early as this fall.

CNN's Athena Jones reports on what the science shows and where the U.S. stands right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ATHENA JONES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Could a fourth dose of COVID vaccine be coming your way?

DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: I think it's safe to assume that we're not done vaccinating for this virus.

JONES: As new infections, deaths and hospitalizations decline, FDA officials are weighing if or when healthy adults in the United States could benefit from another booster shot. One official saying it could happen this fall, coinciding with when people get a flu shot. Respiratory infections like COVID and influenza tend to peak in the winter.

DR. MEGAN RANNEY, PROFESSOR OF EMERGENCY MEDICINE, BROWN UNIVERSITY: Many of us expect in the years to come, we will have yearly doses of COVID vaccine the same way we do for the flu vaccine in order to protect us against new variants that rear their head as we go into cold weather months.

JONES: The FDA says it's closely monitoring data, but for now, most doctors say the focus should be on getting everyone who's eligible fully vaccinated and boosted.

New COVID cases now average about 100,000 a day. The lowest level since early December. Hospitalizations are down 26 percent from last week. Still, just 28 percent of people have received a booster, and the pace of vaccinations is about the slowest it has ever been.

When it comes to treatment, a new study, not yet peer reviewed, chose Merck's new anti-viral Molnupiravir reduced the risk of hospitalization by 65 percent, stronger results than previous studies of the pill. And another study shows more children are hospitalized in a season for the flu than for COVID-19.

Meanwhile in the United Kingdom, Buckingham Palace announced 95-year- old Queen Elizabeth has COVID.

She's experiencing mild cold-like symptoms and is expected to continue light duties this week.

REINER: If her symptoms were initially mild and remain mild and then start to dissipate, then the queen is moving absolutely in the right direction. If her symptoms worsen, well, that's a different story, and hopefully, we won't see that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JONES (on camera): And the news about the queen come as British Prime Minister Boris Johnson announced the lifting of all remaining COVID-19 restrictions, part of his living with COVID plan. This means starting Thursday, people who test positive will not be required to self- isolate.

[16:30:04]

And starting now, students and staff at schools will no longer have to be tested twice a week. Meanwhile, the U.K. health secretary announce the government will offer an additional booster dose to people at higher risk of serious COVID-19, including all adults over 75 -- Pam.

BROWN: All right. Athena Jones, thanks so much.

Joining us now to discuss is Dr. Peter Hotez, co-director of the Center for Vaccine Development at Texas Children's Hospital.

Nice to see you, Dr. Hotez.

So, Buckingham Palace says Queen Elizabeth is fully vaccinated, experiencing mild symptoms and expects to perform light duties. But she's also 95 years old and older people have been hit especially hard by the pandemic. How concerned should we be for her health?

DR. PETER HOTEZ, DEAN, SCHOOL OF TROPICAL MEDICINE, BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: Well, hopefully she's -- also because she is in a high risk group that she's getting anti-viral treatment, either the Paxlovid or one of the monoclonal antibodies. We also don't know what fully vaccinated means, whether it's two doses, three doses, how many months it's been since she got her booster dose. All of those in the mix in terms of evaluating the best therapy for her.

BROWN: The FDA says it's considering whether a fourth dose of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines might be recommended as the country moves into the fall. Do you think this step is necessary?

HOTEZ: Yeah, it's looking like it might be, Pam. And the reason is, because shortly after you get the booster, you have about a 90 percent against hospitalized but then it goes to 78 percent against hospitalization and around 66 percent against an ER visit. So, still good, but not as strong. So, the question is why is immunity truly waning or is it unique to the omicron variant in by giving the booster it could potentially restore it back up to the high numbers.

The question is going to be if and when -- if we don't expect another wave until an annual winter wave, we have the luxury of time, and we can wait to do something like that in the fall. But many of us are concerned we've seen big peaks here in the southern states in Texas in 2020 and 2021 and maybe we'll have to do it sooner ahead of the summer wave. Then the bigger question, is what's the long-term plan? Does this mean annual boosters? Do we have to pivot to a different type of vaccine technology? So we really need to bring smart people together to create a long-term vaccination strategy for the country.

BROWN: Yeah, still a lot of questions on that front. Also, a lot of questions on what to do with kids and masking and so forth. There's a new study publish in the JAMA Pediatrics today that found children are hospitalized with the flu at a greater rate than with COVID.

We've done a lot to protect kids during this pandemic, including schools and having kids wear masks, which as you know is hotly debated. So, when it comes to kids, given this new data, should we treat COVID as the flu?

HOTEZ: Well, let's take a step back. So first after all, when they were comparing old flu years to COVID -- so in the last two years, COVID-19 has caused almost 1,000 deaths among kids where flu caused six deaths among kids according to the CDC.

But looking at an older year of flu data they might be equivalent. That's why we recommend getting an influenza vaccine for kids and that's why we recommend getting a COVID vaccine for kids. So, we're going to need both. And maybe down the line we look at co-formulating the two, a combined influenza/COVID vaccine. That might be something we'll look at.

I think the other surprising find in the study was the hospitalizations from COVID were equal to the hospitalizations from that syndrome called multi-system inflammatory syndrome of kids, MIS- C, so it was higher than we thought. Bottom line is both viruses are bad actors and we need to vaccinate against both.

BROWN: All right. Dr. Peter Hotez, thank you.

HOTEZ: Thank you.

BROWN: Donald Trump is back on social media, but the truth is, you may not be able to see what he is saying just yet.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:38:51]

BROWN: On this Presidents' Day, former President Donald Trump is launching his brand new social media site. It's called Truth Social, and it's the MAGA alternative after Trump was kicked off Facebook and YouTube and Twitter last year in the wake of the January 6th insurrection.

So, let's bring in CNN's Oliver Darcy to talk more about this.

All right. So, Oliver, truth is, the rollout for Truth Social hasn't been so smooth, has it?

OLIVER DARCY, CNN SENIOR MEDIA REPORTER: No, it has not, Pam. I have been trying to sign up to see what it looks like for myself, and I have been trying since this morning and I have been unable to actually get on the site. I'm still waiting for a verification code from the Truth Social folks and it hasn't come. It's been several hours. Before I got to this page I encountered token errors and all other sorts of problems.

So, it's not been going smooth for Trump. And I think this really shows it's not easy to start a social media site. You need a lot of expertise. You need a strong digital infrastructure, and clearly, the former president doesn't have that on the site. BROWN: So, what about the rules for this site? Could certain posts

get users kicked off? Could the site become a mega phone for hate speech?

[16:40:01]

DARCY: You know, I was trying to look at the terms and conditions for this platform, but unfortunately, I was unable to do so because the website is so error-ridden. I came to look at it and encountered a 404 page. You can see that on the screen. The website is having a lot of trouble here.

I do imagine that eventually there will be some sort of rules. You can't be, for instance, posting unlawful content. What's going to be interesting to see is what happens when people violate those rules because on Twitter and other apps, conservatives, generally Trump supporters have broken rules and been kicked off the platforms, including the former president.

So, when people violate Trump's platform, what's going to happen to them? Going to be an intriguing free speech issue and it's going to cause headaches for the president if he has to take action against his own supporters.

BROWN: Right, because when they were kicked off for violating the rules, they complained, said it was big tech coming after them and so forth. So, it will be interesting to see what happens on this social site by Trump.

All right. Thanks so much, Oliver Darcy. We appreciate it.

So, let's discuss all this with "Washington Post's" Karoun Demirjian and CNN senior political analyst John Avlon, who is out with a new book "Lincoln and The Fight for Peace".

Congrats on that book, John. So, up until now, Trump put out statements on his website, and aides would push them out on social media, as we know. Does this new website, Truth Social, give Trump a louder megaphone now, John?

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: No. I mean, look, it's certainly an attempt to do that, but from the very name, Truth Social, given Trump was caught lying over 30,000 times as president, it's sort of an Orwellian absurdity and it's also sort of a grift. I mean, they clearly don't have their basic blocking and tackling together for a successful launch. They've attracted a lot of money and will have devoted users.

But it being actually an ecosystem that can actually amplify the president's messages requires speaking outside the echo chamber. This is an echo chamber exercised. That's all it is. So, no.

BROWN: Yeah. Karoun, on that note, Trump's media company says the new app won't be fully operational until the end of next month, so I guess you can treat today as a soft launch, but is it a bad look for Trump and his brand to have all these glitches on day one? KAROUN DEMIRJIAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I mean, of course. If you

want to say, look, we're going to make a splash in this area and have to splash be, you know, drips and not forming a puddle is not the greatest of looks.

But the question really is how patient is the base of his supporters that would probably gravitate towards this in the first place going to be over the next six weeks until it gets up and running a little better? What's it going to look like once it does? Is it going to be something that is, you know, looks like other social media sites that we're familiar with? Or is it going to be more of just a platform where you'll see these views from the president be put out there to his followers? These are all open questions, still.

And so, I think, you know, certainly they're hoping that everybody just sits tight and stays tuned and is equally chomping at the bit to get on board in six weeks' time. We'll see if that is actually the case or if people get a little impatient waiting.

BROWN: All right. I want to turn to the breaking news that has to do with Russia, Ukraine, the evolving crisis there. The current president, Joe Biden, faces one of the most consequential matters of his presidency, potential military conflict between Ukraine and Russia. Do his decisions so far, John, seem to have the support of congress, and more importantly, the American people?

AVLON: Yes. I mean, look, the Republican Party, there's actually a broader coalition of folks who are trying to be consistent around the party's historic internationalism and defense of international organizations like NATO, but the loudest group is the Trumpists who are basically isolationists, and hear a loft what-aboutism and sort of de facto Putin-endorsing when it comes to at least statements like, I don't really care about Ukraine.

This isn't a luxury. The U.S. doesn't have the luxury to care or not care when a sovereign nation is invaded. We are invested. We help create the international liberal order that has created 75 years of peace and prosperity since the Second World War. And whenever Vladimir Putin is trying to invade another country by whatever pretext, that's a threat to freedom and security and safety. So, you think you'd be able to put our partisan blinders aside.

BROWN: Do you think, though, Karoun, that that the administration has been effective at it rating why Americans should care what Putin does 5,000 miles away? Why U.S. troops could be involved in this conflict?

DEMIRJIAN: I mean, they're certainly trying to, but the question is, if that's really their audience that they're communicating to right now. I mean, right now, this has been moving fits and starts every day seems to have a new development. Today is Russia recognizing Donetsk and Luhansk as independent republics opens the door potentially for them to invite Russian troops to bring the battle lines that much closer to Kyiv controlled Ukraine.

[16:45:12] And the Biden administration has been declassifying intelligence, trying to operate quickly to kind of cut off Putin's plans at the past before he can exercise them. So, they have been primarily occupied with doing that, not -- there have been public statements made to the American public.

But the main campaign hasn't been to win American hearts and minds so much. Remember, this is, you know, domestically speaking we've got a fairy wear weary population. We've just come off 20 years of that. Yes, we're not sending U.S. troops into war in Ukraine, but there's this element of, you know, tiredness, I guess. I wouldn't go so far as to call it skepticism, but tiredness.

And I think that depending on what happens in the days ahead, the administration is going to have to explain the rest of that story. We are still in kind of a waiting period to see what happens to get out of this limbo, whatever that is. The president's going to have to tell the United States population why he's reacting the way he is.

BROWN: Right, and also explain why prices at the pump are going up so much and so forth if an invasion happens.

John, on this Presidents' Day, you're out with this new book about your nation's 16th president, Abraham Lincoln. The new book is called "Lincoln and the Fight for Peace".

Here, it was a president struggling with how to end a military conflict. Tell us about it.

AVLON: Well, a civil war, of course. But Lincoln was facing a problem without precedent. There had never been a civil war on that scale before. You know, America was the world's sole democracy. But a lot of the themes are deeply resonant.

You had a political party denying the legitimacy of Abraham Lincoln's election and a deeply divided nation. And he was able to be a uniter in divided times, he was able to prosecute a war while containing his commitment to absence of malice.

And it's that commitment to peace that I think is one of Lincoln's gifts to us. It quires unconditional surrender. There's more that unites us than divide us as Americans.

Lincoln was able to achieve that, and even though he wasn't able to implement his vision because of the assassination, that lived on and found the culmination in the investment in peace that was the Marshall Plan, which is the table setter for what we're seeing today.

BROWN: All right. John, Karoun, thank you so much for joining us for this discussion. Congrats again on your book, Pam.

AVLON: Thanks, Pam.

BROWN: Well, Canada trying to turn back trucker inspired protests by cutting off the cash that's been fueling their blockade. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:52:17]

BROWN: In the money lead, Canada is cracking down on protests at the border by freezing bank accounts of those involved.

Today, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says his country has blocked foreign money funding illegal blockades and called out the protesters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUSTIN TRUDEAU, CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER: You can disagree with elected officials. You can certainly disagree with me. But you can't harass your fellow citizens who disagree with you. You can't hold a city hostage.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: CNN's Paula Newton is in Ottawa. So, Paula, is this financial approach working?

PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It seems to be working and the government had promised to follow the money. But here's the thing -- this is an emergencies act and it takes away civil liberties, which is what allows a lot of this follow the money mantra to really stick.

This was an act. It was 1988, never been used. Draft in the 1988, and now they're actually going to have a court challenge as to whether or not it can stay in place. On top of that we have a parliamentary vote tonight on it at 8:00 p.m.

But let's get to how it works. Police say they have already frozen the accounts of more than 200 people, and that is linked to both business and personal accounts.

What else have they done? The protesters were bragging about the fact that they were getting digital currency, 253 bitcoin addresses have been frozen, $3.8 million Canadian. Those were a frozen payment system, which meant that, look, Pam, if you were going to pay with a credit card, that that was no longer processed and those funds were frozen.

This is ALSO interesting, though -- 56 vehicles were actually tagged to their owners. That meant licenses could be pulled and insurance could be pulled. And this, the prime minster says, is working. Police agree with them, and they say it has actually stopped the flow of money, including from the United States to these protesters, pam.

BROWN: This comes after protesters were using children as shields to keep police way.

NEWTON: Yeah, that was actually so alarming. I saw the children myself at the protests, and Ottawa police followed up that even when police were using aggressive action on the streets of Ottawa, that a few families still brought their children close. Again, this law made that illegal. It gave the parents a $5,000 fine. Thankfully, Pam, I have to say, no children of course were hurt.

But still, unprecedented tactics here that police say they really wanted to stop. Pam.

BROWN: Paula Newton, thank you.

It was not a player who started the full court brawl after a college basketball game.

[16:55:00]

That's next.

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BROWN: In our sports lead, a postgame brawl between two fierce college basketball rivals. Michigan head coach Juwan Howard gave a Wisconsin assistant coach the Fab five after a double digit loss on Sunday. The ugly scene started during postgame hand shakes. The two homes could be seen arguing and then it devolves into chaos after Howard strikes an opposing coach. Staff and players were seen pushing and shoving with members of both teams appearing to throw punches.

The Big 10 conference says it is still investigating and will take appropriate disciplinary action.

Nice job setting a good example, coach.

Well, I'm Pamela Brown in for Jake Tapper.

Our coverage continues with Wolf Blitzer and "THE SITUATION ROOM".