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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Kyiv Declares State Of Emergency Amid Russia Crisis; U.S. Warns Kyiv Of "Imminent" Full Scale Invasion; Pentagon: U.S. Troops In Europe Repositioning North Of Ukraine; U.N. Ambassador: Russia Could Create Five Million Refugees If It Continues; Ivanka Trump In Talks For Voluntary Interview With Jan. 6 Committee; Two Prosecutors Working On Manhattan D.A.'s Investigation Into Trump Organization Resign; Landmark U.N. Report Warns Wildfires Are Getting More Frequent, Intense. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired February 23, 2022 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00]

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: But, you know, I think what's different now is the tension that really exists in this in this country tonight with Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, having already recognized the rebel public -- Republic's in the in the east of the country.

And of course, it comes as, and this may or may not be a coincidence, I suspect it's not Volodymyr Zelenskyy, the Ukrainian president has imposed a state of emergency in the country from actually now from this hour. That's what will be taking place now across the whole country. And that's going to mean extra security, outside key installations like government buildings and, and transportation links.

It's also going to mean a curfew. We understand from -- in Kyiv that these from 11:00 at night in terms of your restaurants and nightclubs and bars and things like that. And it's also going to mean that, you know, people who are in the reserves, the military reserves, you could be called up for active surface -- service will not be permitted to leave the country so that that gives us a good picture of the kind of state of readiness the country is in at the moment.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: All right, Matthew Chance reporting for us from the capital of Ukraine, Kyiv. Thank you so much. The invasion has already begun for many people living near the frontline in eastern Ukraine. In recent days, the shelling and explosions have come closer and closer. CNN's Sam Kiley reports from one small town in the Donbas region specifically in the Donetsk province where the odds of surviving could depend on where you're standing inside your house.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It wasn't much but it was home. And now it's as torn as the title deeds, Irena (ph) holds in her hands. Her house was blown up by a shell fired from Russian back rebel territory on the day Vladimir Putin recognize the enclave as independent from Ukraine. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, this is the living room. There is the bathroom. The washing machine is gone. And that's all, that's left of the toilet.

KILEY (on camera): When something like this happens. And you have the threat that you've now facing from Russia just down the road. Do you think you're going to see more of this kind of thing?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, we are home now. We are not afraid. I don't want to blame Ukraine or Russia. We just want peace for everyone. There are people there too, and they also suffer.

KILEY (voice-over): Irena (ph) has a daughter Veronica who's nine.

(on camera): This is the bedroom of Veronica. Luckily, she was in the kitchen lying on the floor when the shells landed. But it could have been so much worse.

(voice-over): This shell killed Irena's (ph) neighbor Roman when it exploded about 100 yards from her front door.

(on camera): If you're living 500 meters from a frontline, this is as bad a place as you could possibly be, that tower there serves as an ideal aiming point for any kind of artillery.

(voice-over): Roman was killed outside his garage.

Nardia (ph) another neighbor says that fall shells landed the day Roman died, she and her son who's 50 and a former Ukrainian marine fear that a Kremlin driven escalation could result in an unthinkable tragedy. He lives in rebel territory, and he may be conscripted into the secessionist army any time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm very worried. Imagine if he is forced to shoot his mother. He is very worried.

KILEY: This is the fifth day of heavy shelling in the area. The threat of a full scale Russian invasion hangs over Roman's funeral. The disaster is what this frontline town has learned to live with. And is this what the rest of Ukraine may soon also learn to ignore.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

KILEY: Now, Jake, the as you rightly pointed out there in the introduction, the Putin back rebels who've asked for Vladimir Putin for Russian help now with their military campaign lay claim not just to the territory that they're occupying, but how in that frontline, so close to the town I was in, but actually the town I was in and the whole of that province.

And as a consequence of that, and this added intelligence coming from the United States, we have now seen significantly more movement of military materiel, including multiple rocket launching systems, these are Ukrainian weapons, not only in this part of eastern Ukraine, but other CNN correspondents have been reporting this out of Lviv and elsewhere around the country. So, things definitely seem to be ratcheting up, Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Sam Kylie, reporting live from Kharkiv, Ukraine. Joining us now to discuss live Republican Senator Marco Rubio from Florida. He's the ranking Republican on the Senate Intelligence Committee. He also serves on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Senator Good to see you.

So, I want to get your reaction to this news that has just broken in the last hour or so. The Kremlin is claiming that the leaders of the key separatist movements in eastern Ukraine, in the Donbas region, are asking Putin for help fighting the Ukrainian. So what's your reaction? How much do you fear this will escalate the situation?

[17:05:15]

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL): Well, that's kind of the final step in this process. And that now opened the door for Putin to trigger his fake mutual defense agreement that he signed with them. And this, I think we're now hours not days away from and in fact, I think some of its already underway. Obviously, I'll let others confirm it that they're on the ground, Pentagon confirmed some of this, but there's a lot of activity going on at the same time in Ukraine tonight.

All the signs point to, you know, something unusual happening compared to other days, obviously, we'll see but I'll let others confirm it that they're closer to it than what I'm seeing come across. But, you know, we're in the middle of something right now here tonight. That's a little bit different than previous nights.

TAPPER: Sources tell CNN that the U.S. has issued this new warning to the Ukrainian government and to NATO that the latest U.S. intelligence suggests not just a Russian incursion into the Donbas region, which would be bad enough, but a full scale Russian invasion and that it's imminent. You're the ranking Republican on the Intelligence Committee. And I know you can't disclose classified information. But do you agree?

RUBIO: Yes, I think Putin made a decision. Look, I've long believed that he was going to conduct this attack for a lot of reasons. We don't have time to go into all it would take about 30 minutes to walk through it. But the bottom line is that all the check the boxes he would check in this plan, he's been checking them. I felt like we knew I can say this, though. We've known for some days now that he's made it what's pretty much an irreversible decision at this point.

And so I think you saw with the cyber-attacks today, the implanting of malware and key systems. I think the next thing you would probably see them do is potentially try to seize a couple airports, so that they can fly equipment directly into the country. I think you could also see them begin to target air defense systems, weapon and ammo depots and things of that nature.

This will move pretty quickly once it starts, and we're going to lose some insight into it from the perspective of the media. I think you're going to see disruptions in social media, in talk communications, internet connectivity, things of that nature. TAPPER: You just said that Putin made the decision to set in motion, an irreversible process. You tweeted this also a few days ago. So, do you think the window is close to resolve this diplomatically? And thus, are you anticipating that most if not all of Ukraine will soon enough be under Russian control?

RUBIO: Well, I don't think the diplomatic window was ever open. Because he's made -- he made demands that he knew could not be met. He made unreasonable demands, he met them -- he made demands that he knew the West could never agree to in essence, if you read what his demands were, he was asking us to kick out at least 13 NATO countries, basically anyone who's joined after 2007, and that he knew that wasn't possible.

So, I don't think there ever was a window. I think frankly, Putin has been planning this, it didn't start last month or last week, this has been going on for over a year. And I just felt -- he felt like this was the opportune time. They got elections in France, the U.S. has got its own issues domestically and focused on China, energy prices are high.

Germany has a new leader. You know, the UK is going through some tumultous (ph) in their political process. And I think he felt like this was the ideal moment to sort of take action. If he didn't do it now, the window could potentially close a year from now, and may not be there for him.

TAPPER: So you say you don't think sanctions will stop Putin? If not sanctions, then what? I mean, the United States is not going to put U.S. or NATO forces on the ground in Ukraine. So how does the West stop Putin or is it too late?

RUBIO: Well, I don't mean to sound defeatist about this. But the bottom line is if Russia has the military ability to take Ukraine, if it wants to take it. Its problem is not going to be that. Its problem is going to be now it has to govern it now, it has to stay there.

The Ukrainians -- there's a reason why you don't see millions of Ukrainians abandoning their cities and families. They're going to stay and they're going to fight. And they're not just going to fight now they're going to fight after the big invasions over while these guys are occupying.

This is you know, I think if any nation on earth was hurt -- has learned how expensive and difficult that is to occupy a country that a large number of people that may not want you there, especially long term, it's us. We know, we've seen that in Iraq and Afghanistan in the Russian saw it and Afghanistan too, and obviously before that, we saw it in Vietnam.

So they have a real challenge on their hands moving forward. This is not going to be, you know, a little Crimea situation where they just occupy a place after a fistfight at a police station. And this is going to be a long term deal. He may very well occupy large portions of the country. But he's not going to pacify it. The Ukrainians are going to fight him for a long time. And there's going to be a lot of dead Russians going home. And he'll have to explain to their moms why they died to occupy a place that didn't want him.

TAPPER: So what do you think NATO should do? What do you think President Biden should do?

RUBIO: Well, I think the sanctions should have been imposed. Frankly, I wish we would have imposed the strongest possible sanctions, which was on the two biggest Russian banks. I wish we would have imposed those in the middle of Putin speech, which by the way, it was taped. It wasn't live, but right in the middle of that speech, we should have imposed it. We already knew what he was going to do. I'm not a big believer in this sanction as we go, you know, process.

Beyond that, I think that they're making the right decisions about reinforced NATO's eastern flank.

[17:10:02]

I think that's an important commitment because that is indeed an official red line, I mean, and that's something that cannot be crossed

At the same time, I think it's incredibly important that the U.S. return to a policy of producing domestic energy at a higher level than we've been doing. Fortunately, the Biden administration has cut back on is this high energy prices, as much as anything else that has given Putin, not just tremendous leverage over Europe, but tremendous leverage over the whole situation, it's actually been of great value to him. And it's actually made us potentially vulnerable.

So I hope we will return to that. And I hope we won't lose focus on the Asia Pacific -- Indo-Pacific region, which is where the critical threats to the 21st century lie. And I believe that our NATO Alliance was a little bit more contribution from the U.S. in terms of afford presence can hold back the threat of a further expansion in Europe.

And I would say this, we should recognize the Ukrainian government even if it happens to be in exile or in some ramp portion of the country, and we should help them. We should help them to help those insurgents that remain behind the lines, who are going to continue to fight Russia for months and years to come until their country is free. These are tough people. They will fight and we should do everything we can to help them and they're not asking for American soldiers. They're just asking for the weapons to fight for themselves and their families.

TAPPER: Earlier, our correspondent Sam Kiley reported on how this invasion affects real people in eastern Ukraine and beyond civilians living in fear, praying the next shell doesn't land on their home. What do you think the United States owes to these people to these innocent Ukrainians?

RUBIO: Look, these are heartbreaking things that we're seeing. And obviously, the United States the most powerful country in the world that is not all powerful. And that even in the peak of the, you know, unipolar world, we were not all powerful. And there are things that we couldn't control. These are terrible things that are happening. And I wish we could do more to stop it and prevent it from happening. Unfortunately, evil people do evil things in this world, and they should pay a price for doing it so that it doesn't happen in other places. It is heartbreaking these images. There are a lot of Russian speakers in eastern Ukraine that don't want to be a part of Russia. But they certainly don't want to be shelled and they don't want their kids to be forced, conscripted into some fake countries army, which is these fake separatists areas that Russia has created.

And it is heartbreaking, Jake, one of the toughest things to tell you is that America can do a lot to help Ukraine. But ultimately, I think the future of Ukraine is in the hands of Ukrainian people who I think are prepared to fight and make this a really difficult and painful experience for Putin in the long term.

TAPPER: You've been very clear eyed and sober in your conversations and your comments about what's going on. What's been your reaction when people in your party have praised Putin or said that this is all just Joe Biden trying to distract from his domestic agenda, et cetera. It's so different from the kinds of things you're saying.

RUBIO: Well, I heard a lot about the distract stuff a week ago from some people. I haven't heard a lot about that lately. Clear, this is real. This is happening. Well, I think we always owe an obligation to the people watching to explain why does this matter to America?

It's not that it isn't bad. It's a terrible thing. But why does this matter to Americans? And it matters for two reasons. The first is we now live in a world where countries can decide, hey, that belongs to us, we're going to go invaded and take it. I think the world's going to get really messy really fast. And that's going to impact this here.

As far as Ukraine specifically is concerned, I think it has a big impact on a lot of things on global energy prices. We already have very high gas and energy prices. They're going to go higher. You know, Ukraine has a pretty substantial food producing wheat and corn, that'll have an impact on the global food market, which ultimately would have an impact on us as well. They actually are the leading supplier of neon gas for our nascent semiconductor industry here in the United States that's going to be cut off. So there are some impacts there.

But I also think, as you saw today, I don't know if you saw it, there was this accidentally leaked guidance or directive that the Chinese government gave to its official state reporters, it was talking about why they needed to support Russia, because one day we'll need Russia support when the time comes for us to deal with Taiwan. And so clearly, the Chinese are watching this very carefully, to sort of figure out what happens when you take a place that you claim belongs to you that doesn't want to be a part of you. And they're watching this to see what the price you pay is and what the U.S. reaction and our allied reaction is.

TAPPER: Senator Marco Rubio of Florida, the Vice Chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee, thank you so much for being with us today. Appreciate it, sir. Sticking with our breaking news next, we're live in Russia near the Ukrainian border just north of the area where Putin could soon be sending Russian forces plus new satellite images from Russia. We're examining what they may tell us next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:18:46]

TAPPER: In the World Lead, new video today showing Russia moving more military equipment near its border with Ukraine. The French press captured these images of convoys moving in and other heavy trucks already in position. This is right in the Donetsk region, which is part of Ukraine, that Russian President Vladimir Putin officially recognized as an independent state this week, even though it's part of Ukraine. That's prompting sanctions from the west.

CNN's Fred Pleitgen is also on the Russian side of the border. Fred, is there any new evidence of Russian forces actually crossing into any part of Ukraine beyond the parts controlled by Russian backed separatists?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, so far, Jake, it looks like the Russian forces are still gathering. But there are some pretty ominous signs that a move could be a fairly quick incoming. It's actually quite interesting as we drove today, pretty much the entire length of the Russia Ukraine border, the entire length of that area that is controlled by those separatists. So there's two separatists republics of Donetsk Republic and the Luhansk Republic.

And there's really two areas that we saw, we saw ominous signs of a possible move by the Russian military into Ukrainian territory. That's way in the south near the Donetsk area, which you were just talking about right now. We have heard reports that there's some kind envoys forming there that could move into that territory as fast as possible.

[17:20:04]

Certainly, the Russians move in there, they probably wouldn't encounter any resistance at all, because of course, those areas are held by pro-Russian separatists. It's actually also quite interesting. If you drive along that border for an extended period of time, there's areas where you see no Russian military at all, where there's no tension, nothing. We drove through some through some villages, where they said that they hadn't even seen a Russian soldier over the past couple of weeks, as all of this was unfolding.

There's a second area however, and that's where I am right now, where things do look as though, certainly look as though there is something up that we've been driving here. The other side, the other -- the town that's on the other side of the border here. The closest one is Kharkiv. And that's certainly one of the ones that the U.S. is extremely concerned about.

What we've been seeing here is increased military activity and military trucks with their license plates on backwards. So you couldn't read what's on the license plate. So it certainly seems like the Russian military is on the move here. And it certainly seems like at least to a certain extent. They're

trying to mask exactly what they're doing down here. So you can really feel the tension that's going on down here. Checkpoints as well set up here, as it certainly seems as though in this area. Something is about to unfold, Jake.

TAPPER: Fred Pleitgen in Russia, near the Ukrainian border. Thank you so much. Stay safe. New satellite images of troop movement in Russia might also reveal what Putin could be planning.

Let's bring in CNN military analyst, retired Army Major General Spider Marks. General, we're now hearing leaders of the self-proclaimed independent areas of Donetsk and Luhansk have asked the Kremlin according to the Kremlin for help repelling Ukrainian forces, what do you read into that as we hear about this buildup of Russian troops along the border?

MAJ. GEN. JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, truly what we see Jake is not surprising, right? Here's the area we're talking about. Russian troops have been there for about eight years. It's now at the point because of the declaration by Putin of their independence, and separation from Ukraine for the leadership in both of these areas to say we're having a hard time with Ukrainians, we need help from the Russians, the false flag scenario that we've been talking about.

But there are a couple of scenarios here. Certainly, you could see forces that could come across here. We've seen a lot of imagery over the course of the last couple of days in this area of movement of logistics and self-propelled artillery, et cetera, which would be in place to provide value.

What Fred just indicated is, he's up in this area. And what the concern is, is this town right here. If Putin's objective ultimately is to go across the area, where they currently have forces, to bolster that and build that up, and really go after the entire Donbas, what he's looking to do is to protect the northern flank with forces that might come down this way. And then also potentially, to expand over to provide that landbridge into Crimea, that would give him the capability that he's been looking for, in the near term.

TAPPER: So general, you were commanding general of the U.S. Army Intelligence Center. So help us understand the satellite images from the same area that show a new field hospital on Russia's side of the border, does that definitively suggest Putin is gearing up for a long term conflict? I mean, a field hospital?

MARKS: Yes, one of two things. Here's the location of this piece of -- this piece of imagery right here. Excuse me, Jake. Yes, this piece of imagery is right here at Belgorod. What we're looking at here is a field hospital with support activity here and over here as well. So, we can confirm that.

But the real question is, why there? Well, it's available. If there is an offensive operation that comes in this way, you always prepare for casualties in combat. And oh, by the way, you've got Ukrainian forces in this area, not only our Ukrainian forces here, they're also in this area. So it's a preparation for that.

Also, if we spend a lot of time looking at that, what's happening here, he may choose not to deploy that. But we spend time, we spend effort, and we are deceived by that operation, it could be deception on his part.

TAPPER: And General new satellite images also show more Russian troops amassing north of Ukraine near this airfield in Belarus. Earlier this month, the same area was completely vacant. So does that suggest Putin is focused on an invasion well beyond the Donbas region in the southeast?

MARKS: Well, again, this could be in military terms, it could be a deception effort as well. As you can see, in February, nothing there. And here's the airfield right here with a lot of activity that exists right here. This is important because it does give him that capability to move to Kyiv if he wanted.

To bear in mind that right here is the Chernobyl exclusion zone, the worst nuclear disaster back in 1986. So, for another million plus years, we're going to have nuclear fallout in this location. It's tried to be remediated, but I would hate to have to put soldiers through that in route Kyiv.

But this indicates that what we really have close up view of that airfield truly is the capability to move aircraft in and out and then this really gives you a sense, let me get this bad boy working for us here.

[17:25:12]

This gives you a sense, Jake, military capability that's a ground capability. These are support vehicles that could be used in a ground assault.

TAPPER: All right, General Spider Marks, thank you so much. That's Food for Thought. Appreciate it. As the world waits to see what Russia does next, a new warning from U.S. officials that this could lead to one of the largest refugee crises anywhere in the world. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:30:02]

TAPPER: In our worldly moments ago, the Pentagon announced U.S. troops who are currently stationed in Europe will be moving into the Baltic region just north of Ukraine. And just before that, the State Department spokesman said there is, quote, no indication Russia's backing down as the country is amassing more troops and weapons along the tense border.

Let's bring in CNN's Oren Liebermann, who's at the Pentagon for us. And Kylie Atwood who's at the State Department. Oren, starting with you, why are U.S. forces moving into the Baltic region which is much closer to Russia? OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, the point here is not a confrontation with Russia. The administration has made it clear they're trying to avoid an encounter or confrontation between U.S. troops and Russian troops or forces. But the point here is to make sure that these Baltic States, NATO allies have their defense bolstered in the face of Russian President Vladimir Putin's actions and his words. These are Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania.

The U.S. sending a message here, not only to the U.S. itself, but also to NATO and Putin that NATO stands united and that U.S. will stand by its NATO allies. In Biden's words, the U.S. will defend every inch of NATO territory. Pentagon Press Secretary John Kirby, giving us a look into what these forces would be.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: An infantry battalion task force of approximately 800 personnel that will be moving from Italy to the Baltic region. It's a movement of up to eight F-35 strike fighters from Germany to several operating locations along the eastern flank. A battalion of Attack Aviation and specifically 20 AH-64 helicopters from Germany, again to the Baltic region. And an Attack Aviation Task Force, which is 12 AH-64 helicopters will move from Greece to Poland.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIEBERMANN: So not just troops but also Apache attack helicopters F-35 fighter jets going to the Baltics and also to the south east part of Europe on NATO's eastern flank there. Again, that message of unity that Putin will not find discord or division as he moves or threatens to move further into Ukraine here, depending on also making it clear there are 90,000 troops already in Europe.

And that although there is no plan to send more in right now from the U.S. to Europe, that option remains on the table, as do 8,500 troops on heightened alert should NATO choose to activate its NATO Response Force. Jake?

TAPPER: And Kylie, what is the U.S. saying? What is the State Department saying about the possible humanitarian effects of a full scale war, which obviously, no one except maybe Vladimir Putin wants?

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Well, listen, the U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations, Linda Thomas-Greenfield gave an impassioned plea at the United Nations today, urging countries to come together to isolate Russia, as they maintain this aggressive posture. And as she delivered those remarks, she was very clear in detailing what the human costs, what the humanitarian crisis is going to look like, if Russia goes forth with this full scale invasion, not just in Ukraine, but outside its borders. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LINDA THOMAS-GREENFIELD, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N.: If Russia continues down this path, it could, according to our estimates, create a new refugee crisis, one of the largest facing the world today, with as many as 5 million more people displaced by Russia's war of choice and putting pressure on Ukraine's neighbors. The tidal wave of suffering this war will cause are unthinkable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ATWOOD: Now, Jake, we have heard U.S. officials detail what this humanitarian crisis could look like before, but it does feel more ominous tonight because there's increased concern on behalf of U.S. officials and European officials about what Russia may be able to do right here. We heard this afternoon from a senior defense department official saying that 80 percent of those Russian forces that have amassed along Ukraine's borders are in positions to go forward. They are ready to go in. So that is very concerning as U.S. officials watch to see what orders Putin has in store. Jake?

TAPPER: All right, Kylie Atwood at the State Department. Oren Liebermann at the Pentagon. Thank you so much.

We have more breaking news, Donald Trump's daughter Ivanka is in talks to testify before the January 6 House Committee. How soon might that happen? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:38:20]

TAPPER: In our politics lead, one former President Trump's closest confidants could soon voluntarily appear before the House Committee investigating the deadly January 6 Capitol attack. Ivanka Trump is in preliminary discussions, we're told, with the select committee about the possibility of testifying, according to a spokesperson for Ivanka Trump, who was also of course a former White House adviser.

CNN's Paula Reid joins us now live with more on this. Paula, even if Ivanka Trump voluntarily appears, that does not mean she's necessarily fully cooperating, right?

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: That's exactly right, Jake. Over a month ago, the committee sent Ivanka a letter requesting her voluntary cooperation with this investigation, and laying out exactly why they believe she is such a critical witness. They've said they want to talk to her about what she observed in terms of interactions between her father and former Vice President Mike Pence.

According to the committee, she was a witness to a call between those two men on the morning of January 6. They also want to talk to her about what was going on inside the White House during the insurrection and the days after. But look, this engagement between her team and the committee, it doesn't necessarily mean that she is going to provide any substance of evidence.

I mean, this could potentially be a stalling tactic, Jake, or it could be part of an effort to undermine any claims that she has stonewalled the committee, which of course, could potentially open her up to criminal contempt proceedings, which we've seen with other witnesses who did not engage.

But it is significant here that a member of the Trump family is at least willing to engage with the committee, particularly as lawmakers are trying to reach in to Trump's inner circle.

TAPPER: And Paula, speaking of investigations, there's news today that two top prices pewters working on the Manhattan District Attorney's investigation into the Trump organization, these two prosecutors resigned today. What's going on with that?

[17:40:09]

REID: A significant development at a critical stage for this investigation. CNN has learned that Carey Dunne and Mark Pomerantz both submitted their resignation to the District Attorney's Office. Now the Manhattan D.A. in a statement insists that this year's long investigation into the Trump organization continues. The reasons for these resignations are still unknown.

Now according to The New York Times, these resignations come as the newly installed District Attorney Alvin Bragg has expressed some doubts about moving forward with a case against former President Trump. And according to the Times, these doubts have prompted a pause in investigators use of a state grand jury. We know from our reporting that investigators have been using that grand jury to build the cases they have brought.

Of course, last summer, Manhattan District Attorney charged the Trump Organization in a 15 years long tax fraud scheme, also charged one of its top executives, Alan Weisselberg with tax fraud. Now the District Attorney has previously said this investigation, this is consequential and something that merits his personal attention. Now what that means for the future of his investigation and for any potential charges against the former president is unclear, Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Paula Reid, thanks so much.

Here to discuss, former Assistant U.S. Attorney and University of Baltimore Law Professor Kim Wehle. She is the author of the just released book, "How to Think Like a Lawyer and Why." Kim, thanks so much for being here. Really appreciate it. Good to see you again.

So let's start with the January 6 committee testimony from Ivanka Trump would theoretically bring the committee well inside Trump's inner circle into his family. She reportedly tried to convince her father to take actions to tell the rioters to stand down, to leave the Capitol. Do you think she will testify? How significant could her testimony be?

KIM WEHLE, LAW PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF BALTIMORE: I think she will testify. I agree with Paula, it's unclear what the scope of that will be. But I think she realizes these claims of privilege and, you know, the things that Steve Bannon and Mark Meadows and others have been trying to use as a shield to cooperating aren't working. So it's hard to know, of course, what the scope will be. But as Paula described, what the committee wants to know is what was inside Donald Trump's mind at the time. What was his intention around all of that? Was he just acting like the Trump and mercurial guy, or was he really trying to afford an election, which arguably is a crime?

TAPPER: Well, in speaking of what's in his mind, and scheming and planning, John Eastman is this prominent attorney and former Trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election, he spoke at the January 6 rally. He's the one that came up with a crazy Eastman memo, you know, with this unconstitutional scheme, for Pence to basically to install Trump as president even though Biden won. He now claims he was hired to represent Trump two months before the election. Now he says this was to prepare for post-election litigation. Is this proof that this was all premeditated or no?

WEHLE: I don't think that's proof of premeditation. I think the facts are largely out there that is that they wanted to thwart the election. If you read his memo, it's a disaster from a legal perspective. As I talk about my book, lawyers focus on laws and facts, because we have to. We'll lose in court if we don't.

This is really about him being able to claim I was Trump's lawyer, because we have something out there called the attorney and client privilege. And that can really clamp down on access to evidence. So if he wasn't his lawyer, he can't even argue that. If he was his lawyer, then the question is, whether it was confidential, or the next step would be if they're engaged in a crime, if they're engaged in the crime, everything's out the window. But again, this is an effort to keep information from the January 6 committee.

TAPPER: Right, but by this, I totally hear you. But the scheme was out there from the very beginning, right? We knew this in the fall before the election, Trump was saying that any votes that were being counted after election night were bogus. He was saying that election -- the absentee ballots were fraudulent inherently.

I mean, it was all not just predictable. It's predicted. We knew he was going to come out that night. It was reported a few days ahead of time, he was going to come out and declare victory.

WEHLE: Right. I mean, there's a closet full of smoking guns when it comes to what happened on January 6. No one questions really what happened. You know, this is not something lawyers often see this kind of hiding in plain sight, you know, doing these things, openly, blatantly, lying about the law, but it's going to come down to accountability. And we have two pieces. We have the January 6 committee.

I happen to think that they -- their job, when they'd have public hearings in the spring is to educate the American people as to what really happened. And then really it comes down to what will the Justice Department do if anything once we all get sort of used to the idea that there could be criminal liability for our former president, will the Justice Department take action? That's going to depend on whether they feel like they can win a case beyond a reasonable doubt, and sort of the political appetite for that. [17:45:13]

But, of course, Merrick Garland is going to be attorney general, regardless of what happens with the midterm. So that's really I think the long run game here is whether that's going to kick in some way.

TAPPER: What do you make of all the progressives griping that Merrick Garland hasn't been forceful enough, that he hasn't done anything with Mark Meadows who, you know, is, you know, is refusing to cooperate with the committee and has been indicted, or what's the term I'm looking for?

WEHLE: Yes. He's -- well, he's -- he hasn't, you know, Bannon's been indicted, they're haven't taken the step --

TAPPER: They haven't indicted him, right.

WEHLE: They did make a recommendation. You know, honestly --

TAPPER: The House voted --

WEHLE: Right.

TAPPER: -- to hold him in criminal consent.

WEHLE: Right. And then it sort of goes to the Justice Department.

TAPPER: Right.

WEHLE: They can taking that up. You know, again, I kind of think the Justice Department understands that right now, as Jamie Raskin has said, he has said that, quote, they'll blow the lid off the house with this new information. That means, Jake, we know a lot just like you said, but we're going to learn more.

And I think until we learn more, it's really hard to say what should be appropriate for America. And, of course, we don't know what they already know. So I think it's really got to be careful about sort of throwing stones at this when we have incomplete information, again, something I talk about in the book of facts that are verifiable do matter.

TAPPER: What book is it? It is Kim Wehle's brand new book, "How to Think Like a Lawyer and Why." Thank you so much for being here, Kim. Great to see you as always.

Coming up, a new report says everyone in the world is going to have to learn to live with fire, and there's no way around it. That's next. Stay with us.

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[17:51:10]

TAPPER: In our Earth matters series, it is time for the world to, quote, learn to live with fire, that is according to a watershed United Nations report released today The report concludes that the likelihood of hotter, more intense and more destructive wildfires will surge by 14 percent by the end of the decade. 30 percent by 2050, and 57 percent by the end of the century. And there is, according to this report, little if anything, we can do to stop the near term consequences fueled by the human caused climate crisis.

CNN's Chief Climate Correspondent Bill Weir joins us now live to discuss. Bill, what does learning to live with fire mean for the communities out west especially that frequently experienced these fires?

BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's coming to grips with the idea that the fire season is now year round. That it is burning in places typically it wouldn't in wetlands and tundra areas and high elevation Alpine Rockies are burning like never before. It's coming to embrace indigenous wisdom. The Native Americans who learned to live with fire as a natural needed part of nature, as vital as rain. All of that was sort of suppressed ever since the pioneers and at the same time, we built developments in these sort of wilderness interfaces, making them super vulnerable.

So the only thing could be done is to fortify those communities. Do zoning laws, new maybe construction bylaws and really educating the public about clearing brush around the house, trying to get fireproof gutters on the house and trying to prevent them best you can. But at this point, there's so much fuel out there, whether it's lightning, or whether it's sparks from a flat tire or grill embers. They're just going to happen more frequently, unfortunately.

TAPPER: When we talk about efforts to combat climate change, often people talk about the price tag of the legislation being proposed. In the United States alone, however, the cost of fighting these fires, just these fires, has shot up to $1.9 billion just last year. That's more than a 170 percent increase over the previous decade. Are there any signs that lawmakers are grasping the economic consequences of doing nothing about climate change?

WEIR: You're seeing it on the local levels and counties, you know, up in sort of no other Central California on paradise there. Yes, we're in a state also where private firefighting is a booming industry because the publicly financed local municipalities or CalFire can't keep up. It's a mutual aid system out there where I'll help put out your town if you help put out mine, but if both towns are burning, who does it?

So, yes, this takes a whole new mind shift. And a lot of that will be sort of led by insurance markets where they're redrawing the way cities are zoned. If they say, I'm sorry, it's too dangerous, it's too fire prone, you're going to have to cover your own risk, that will make people change their ways.

TAPPER: And that's just the economic cost I was talking about. Fires are, obviously, incredibly harmful to public health beyond the deaths from fires. A recent study found that increases in dust and small particles from wildfire smoke in 2020 led to a surge in COVID cases and deaths in California, Oregon and Washington. So how should people who live in fire prone areas protect themselves health wise?

WEIR: They're not going to like the answer. Unfortunately, it's masks, you know. My little boy was a pandemic baby and we couldn't find masks to go into the livery. But I remembered I had one from covering the fires in California. So as my boy was born, it was a fire mask and now sadly, as we move out of pandemic, that may be the normal in this world they're describing.

People who live in San Francisco all the way up to Seattle and Vancouver saw how the skies out there turn this like Blade Runner orange there. And yes, that particulate matter even ones you can't see from air pollution kills millions of people a year but just another thing to worry about and it's that dry heat as we talked about and how dry it gets and how bad it gets still, though, is in control of policymakers today.

[17:55:14]

TAPPER: All right, Bill Weir, thank you as always for your coverage. We're following the breaking news in Ukraine as Ukrainians are bracing for what could be a full scale invasion by Russia. Stay with us.

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TAPPER: We continue to follow the breaking news, the U.S. warning Ukraine of an imminent full-scale invasion by Russia. That coverage continues in just moments until then and until tomorrow.

You can follow me on Facebook, on Instagram, on Twitter, on the TikTok at JakeTapper. You can tweet the show @TheLeadCNN. And if you ever miss an episode of The Lead, you can listen to the lead wherever you get your podcast.

Our coverage now continues with one Mr. Wolf Blitzer right next door in "THE SITUATION ROOM." I'll see you tomorrow.