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The Lead with Jake Tapper
Ordinary Ukrainians Standing Defiant Against Russia; Nearly 836,000 Refugees Have Fled Ukraine In Past Week; Zelenskyy Transforms From Showman To Wartime President And Commander; CNN Poll: 41 Percent Have "Very Positive" Reaction To Biden Speech; Rep. Boebert Heckles Biden Before He Mentions Deceased Son; Russian & Ukrainian Delegations To Meet For Second Round Of Talks; Pentagon: U.S. Believes Russians Are "Regrouping" Outside Kyiv; CNN: U.S. Intelligence Agencies Make Understanding Vladimir Putin's State Of Mind A Top Priority. Aired 5- 6p ET
Aired March 02, 2022 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[17:00:00]
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: And then on the western outskirts of Kyiv, fighter jets scream overhead following by the sound of jarring explosions. Local video shows extensive damage after a missile landed on a residential neighborhood. Early reports indicate there are casualties, though it is not clear as of now how many. And as for that 40-mile-long convoy of Russian military vehicles, the Pentagon this afternoon says the convoy appears stalled and Russia is regrouping. As CNN's Matthew Chance reports for us right now, the Ukrainian state emergency service now says that more than 2,000 Ukrainian civilians, just civilians not including Ukrainian military, have been killed in the last week.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Russia's assault on Ukraine continues without mercy. This is what's left of a university in Kharkiv, the country's second city (inaudible) of civilian areas.
In the port city of Mariupol, also the scene of heavy shelling, local officials say hundreds of casualties are now feared.
The United Nations has confirmed more than 500 civilian casualties across Ukraine in the week since this Russian invasion began. Ukrainian officials say the figure is much higher.
You think those figures would scare people off the streets but look at this scene from the town of Konotop where Russian officer holds up two grenades for protection after delivering an ultimatum demanding surrender. Shame on you, the angry crowd shots. Just go back to where you came from.
Minutes later, the local man sets out Russia's terms. If we stopped resisting, they will shell the city, he tells the crowd. But if you vote for it, we will fight back. The decision has to be taken by everyone, though, because the artillery is aimed at us he yells. Across Ukraine, they continue to be courageous acts of civilian defiance against the Russian occupiers. This was a scene in the southern town of Melitopol now under Russian control. Locals literally lying in front of these military vehicles to resist.
And there's resistance on the battlefield too, Russian officials admitting nearly 500 of their own soldiers have been killed so far. Ukrainians say the figure is closer to 6,000. By the way, the human cost of this war is already tragically high.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHANCE: (Inaudible) but there's already been more possibility of casualties as well. Tonight, there's been an air raid on Kyiv with a cruise missile being shot down, according to Ukrainian Security Forces. And, of course, there's been much more shelling to the south in Mariupol, that strategic port city into the northeast in Kharkiv which is still being bitterly contested by Russian and Ukrainian forces.
There is one small glimmer, I suppose you could call it hope. Diplomatic talks going to be resuming for a second round tomorrow inside Belarus. But at the moment, Ukrainian officials are not holding out much hope that they are going to produce any concrete results.
TAPPER: Matthew Chance reporting from Kyiv. Thank you. Please stay safe.
Joining us now live to discuss, Democratic Senator Bob Menendez of New Jersey. He's the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Mr. Chairman, I want to start by replaying a moment from President Biden State of the Union Address last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES: God made crystal clear, the United States and our allies will defend every inch of territory that is NATO territory with the full force of our collective power. Every single inch for clear-eyed. Ukrainians are fighting back with pure courage, but the next few days, weeks and months will be hard on them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Mr. Chairman, despite the courage of the Ukrainian people, do you believe that ultimately, they really just don't have much hope that the Russians will prevail?
[17:04:45]
SEN. BOB MENENDEZ (D-NJ): I don't come to that conclusion. Although they are, you know, facing what could be considered overwhelming odds. You know, I have seen the images on your channel and others, as well as those sent to me about average Ukrainians doing what -- your network show people standing in the way of those very tanks, armored vehicles and whatnot, engaging Russian soldiers themselves, of showing a Russian soldier who's captured, and who they actually fed. And then got to go ahead and talk to his mother back at home and turn into tears.
Look, at the end of the day, this is why, because of their incredible courage, this is why the javelins that just arrived in Ukraine, 1,000 German anti-tank weapons that arrived, several 100 Stinger missiles, security assistance continues including in the last 24 hours. We need to continue to send to the Ukrainians, both directly and through our allies, and those who are holding our weapons and approving transfers, which I just did this past weekend on a whole host of things in order to get to the Ukrainians. So that maybe the tide of history won't be what everybody expects at the end of the day.
And at the same time, when we freeze Russia's reserves abroad, and he cannot get access to it, meaning Putin, well then, he doesn't have the money to fuel a lot of this in the longer term. So I still believe that the Ukrainian people have a real chance here but it is undoubtedly a very difficult one.
TAPPER: Mr. Chairman, the Russians are claiming that they have captured and now control the Southern Ukrainian city of Kherson. The Ukrainians deny this. How concerned are you about the Russians gaining ground in Southern Ukraine and then forming that land bridge between Russia and Crimea?
MENENDEZ: It was clearly one of their strategic options. It is a real concern. Of course, that will allow them a continuous movement across. But again, we don't have that confirmation, the Ukrainians, you know, challenge that proposition. But it is a, you know, another concern that we have as it relates to how Russia has a strategic position.
However, Russia has a 40-mile caravan of, you know, critical equipment that it logistically not seem to be able to deal with very well, which is why I believe they have turned to the type of indiscriminate bombing that we have seen in the last two days. And that is condensable throughout the world. And these are bombings against civilian residential buildings, hospitals. It is an abomination of what Russia doing. I believe that they amount to war crimes.
TAPPER: You are part of a bipartisan group of senators calling on the Biden administration to grant temporary protected status to Ukrainians currently in the US. Here's a bit of a quote from that letter, "Forcing Ukrainian nationals to return to Ukraine in the midst of a war would be inconsistent with America's values and our national security interests. As a nation, we must do our part to protect the safety of Ukrainians in the US by designating Ukraine for TPS, Temporary Protected Status." Have you heard back from the Biden administration? How come they haven't done this already?
MENENDEZ: I think this is under consideration. I haven't heard their ultimate determination. But look, you can't take Ukrainians who legally enter the United States and happen to be here, to then send them back to a warzone. You can't tell Europe and our allies, and Poland, and other countries that are, you know, doing the right thing by accepting, you know, hundreds of thousands of refugees, and then send back people, from Ukraine, back to Ukraine who are presently in the United States. That is the very essence of what Temporary Protected Status is all about. It's for instances like this. And so, I would expect the administration, ultimately, to grant TPS. I don't see how they do not.
TAPPER: I've heard criticism, not only from Republicans, but from some gold star families and veterans that President Biden should have mentioned, the 13 service members killed in Afghanistan last August. Do you wish he had? You and I have talked a lot about Afghanistan.
MENENDEZ: Look, I think the President has recognized their heroic loss of life in the past. I certainly welcome anytime, that the sacrifice of the men and women of the Armed Services of the United States can be recognized. But it's not like the President has never recognized their sacrifice. I think he has, but however, you know, could have he said it once again, I guess he could have. And certainly, that would be helpful to the families who lost a loved one and can never replace.
[17:10:04]
TAPPER: Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman Senator Bob Menendez of the great state of New Jersey, thank you so much, sir. Good to see you again.
MENENDEZ: Good to be with you.
TAPPER: A trip no one plan to take, thousands of women and children waiting for trains to safety as they try to flee Ukraine. We're live on the ground just across the border in Hungary. Plus, a look at how Volodymyr Zelenskyy went from playing one on TV to being an actual president, and then a wartime president, stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TAPPER: Back with our World Lead. A warning today that Europe could be facing its largest refugee crisis this century. The United Nations says nearly 836,000 refugees have fled Ukraine since Russia invaded last week, entered at 36,000 just in one week. One in seven have crossed into neighboring Hungary, more than half have escaped into Poland.
[17:15:10]
As CNN's Ivan Watson reports for us now, none of them have any idea if they'll ever see home again.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The train to safety arrives 20 minutes late, rolling across the border from Ukraine loaded with civilians, all fleeing the world's newest warzone.
This train brought hundreds of refugees to safety here in Hungary. The United Nations says more than 800,000 people have fled across Ukraine's borders in just six days.
It is a carefully managed procession, families emerging one by one, expatriates from South Asia and Africa and, of course, Ukrainians, welcomed by a Hungarian officials and aid workers. Each handed a solidarity ticket, a free seat on another train to the Hungarian capital were more help waits.
DAVID OROSY, REFORMED CHURCH OF HUNGARY: They will help them with travelling, with food, with wi-fi, and all necessary things. Even with hotels.
WATSON: Among the new arrivals, Anastasia Hrankina, her son, Mark, and their cat.
ANASTASIA HRANKINA, UKRAINIAN REFUGEE: Sadek (ph), his name is Sadek (ph).
WATSON: They fled Kyiv on the first day of the invasion.
HRANKINA: Two days ago, I was thinking that this war is going to finish just in few days, and that we won't need even to leave Ukraine. But now I just can make any plans. I don't know when I'll see my family again.
WATSON: The Ukrainian refugees are almost all women and children. Absent here, husbands and fathers, men of fighting age ordered to stay behind to defend the country.
You're going to Ukraine now.
OLEKSANDRA SHULENINA, UKRAINIAN REFUGEE: Sure.
WATSON: Oleksandra Shulenina was on a foreign business trip when Russia invaded. Now she's hurrying back into Ukraine to collect her children.
SHULENINA: My husband insists that I protect our children. So I take to my son to my niece. We go to Europe where my friend waiting for us, and he stay in Ukraine to protect our country.
WATSON: Anastasia Hrankina's husband is also back in Kyiv, defending the city against Vladimir Putin's invasion.
And what would you tell people in Russia?
HRANKINA: I will tell them, just get rid of your president. He's insane.
WATSON: Safe but now uprooted, with no idea if and when these people can ever go home.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WATSON: The United Nations' High Commissioner for Refugees, they predict that there could be 4 million refugees fleeing Ukraine by July. And, Jake, there's one other observation that I made today. All of the Ukrainians that I spoke to, spoke to each other and to me in Russian. Why is that important? Well, Vladimir Putin has justified military incursions into Ukraine going back to 2014, claiming that he is protecting Russian speakers there from alleged oppression by the Ukrainian government. The 11-year-old boy I talked to today named Mark who proudly talked about the Kyiv subway system having the deepest subway station in the world. He spoke to me in Russian today. So these are Russian speakers that are being made homeless by Vladimir Putin's invasion, whose fathers and husbands are staying back in Ukraine and now being killed by Vladimir Putin's troops. His logic has completely collapsed here.
TAPPER: Another example of Putin's lies just coming face to face with the facts. Ivan Watson reporting live for us from the Hungarian- Ukrainian border. Thank you so much.
Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy praising the United Nations today for voting to condemn the Russian invasion of his countries. Zelenskyy tweeting, "The world is with us, the truth is on our side. Victory will be ours." As CNN's Phil Black reports for us now, Zelenskyy has come quite a long way. From small screen showman to defiance wartime leader, commanding the resistance from a bunker in Kyiv.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PHIL BLACK, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: There's one really good reason why even in peacetime, many wondered whether Volodymyr Zelenskyy had what it took to lead his country. His preparation for the job was pretending to lead his country.
In the popular Ukrainian TV show, servant of the people he played another unlikely president, a teacher suddenly elevated to the highest office after a private rant about corruption that goes viral. In real life, he's political party uses the name of the show as its own.
[17:20:09]
Zelenskyy's showbiz career was all comedy and light entertainment, including playing Paddington Bear in the movie franchises Ukrainian release. Somehow, that path has led him to the role of wartime president, at a perilous moment for his country.
Is it fair to say that he was an unlikely presidential candidate, and he is a thoroughly improbable wartime leader?
JOHN HERBST, FORMER US AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: I think that is fair to say. He's a man of extraordinary achievements and capabilities.
BLACK: And capabilities widely noticed through his recent example of leadership. Zelenskyy's videos from the streets of Kyiv are being watched everywhere. Tough, determine, insistent the world must do more. And he's provided perhaps the most memorable line of the war so far, responding to a US offer to get him out of Kyiv with "the fight is here. I need ammunition not a ride."
HERBST: And you can be sure that that courage is appreciated. It has strengthened his own people and their resolve to deal this display -- this act of blatant aggression.
BLACK: He could personally make a difference to the outcome you believe?
HERBST: Well, there's no doubt about it. Look, he is now an international hero. The living symbol of standing firm against overwhelming odds.
BLACK: In an exclusive interview with CNN's Matthew Chance, Zelenskyy played down the personal risks and hardship he's enduring.
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE: I'm the President of Ukraine, I'm not iconic. I think that Ukraine is iconic. And I always was sure in it and I knew it, always knew it. That Ukraine is special country. Ukraine is the heart of Europe.
BLACK: Zelenskyy has met his (inaudible), he sat across from Vladimir Putin during talks in late 2019. Clearly, the junior vastly less experienced statesman. Now Putin's forces are coming for him. This moment is revealing Zelenskyy's character as he rallies his people, and the works to resist Russia's assault and save Ukraine's democracy.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLACK: Before the war, Volodymyr Zelenskyy wasn't a hugely popular real life president. He was seen by many as having failed to deliver. In the lead up, he often talked down the possibility of a Russian invasion, openly disagreeing with the assessments and predictions from the Biden administration that proved to be accurate. But since it has started, he has transformed into this symbol of Ukrainian defiance. This professional entertainer who says he knows he is target number one for Russia's military, is now being compared to some of Europe's greatest wartime leaders, including Winston Churchill. Jake.
TAPPER: All right. Phil Black in London, thank you so much. Coming up, Florida's Republican governor scolding high school students for wearing masks. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:27:37]
TAPPER: In our Politics Lead, kicking off a post State of the Union travel blitz to try to sell his agenda outlined in his speech. The White House says the President will travel all across the country to try to amplify what they see as an overall positive economic growth record from his first year in office, despite the recent rise in inflation. Let's discuss all of this with former Republican Congresswoman Mia Love from Utah and former Democratic Congressman Joe Kennedy from Massachusetts.
So let me start with you, congresswoman. In CNN's instant reaction poll of the State of the Union Address, the American people gave the president high marks on his messaging about Ukraine. 69% said the President is doing enough to address Russia's invasion of Ukraine, but only 47% and 46% say the same for inflation and for violent crime, respectively.
Actually, let me start with Kennedy on this one, actually, because it's tougher for him. Clearly, most people polled say Biden didn't say enough about dealing with inflation. How big of a problem is that for the President and for Democrats?
JOE KENNEDY (D), FORMER MASSACHUSETTS CONGRESSMAN: I think you heard him address it in the speech very squarely. And I think, yes, Jake, you know, there was discussions given the crisis in Ukraine whether the speech should focus solely on Ukraine. And I think you saw the White House and the President make a decision that there's -- this is a critical moment for domestic agenda. And the President's strength has always been his compassion, his empathy, his ability to relate with the American public.
And if there's, I think, an overall theme to that speech, it was I get it, right? I get the challenges you're confronting. We're doing everything we can. It's going to take some time. And he's actually, I think, he's been on the record on that consistently saying we're doing everything we can, but this is going to be hard.
TAPPER: Congresswoman Love, I don't know if you agree with your colleague there. Viewers, overall, did have a positive reaction to his first State of the Union speech. And that instant poll, though, only 41% had a very positive reaction. Most people watching the address, there's a disproportionate number of supporters of the President who watched these addresses. 41% is the lowest number of very positive reactions since 1998. Why do you think that is? What is the President's struggle here?
MIA LOVE (R), FORMER UTAH CONGRESSWOMAN: Well, I think, of course, we're looking at two-thirds, I think, of the speech was just more rambling and really did not address the things that are facing the country. Inflation is a big issue. Americans are feeling it. Gas prices continue to be a big issue. So if the President isn't specifically addressing those and saying these are the things that I'm doing to make life better for you, it makes him seem like he's out of touch. This is not just a Republican perspective, this is obviously more than 50 percent of Americans.
[17:30:00]
And so I just don't feel like he's actually course correcting some of the things that have gone wrong. It's almost as if he gave a speech, as if things were going really well across the nation except for Ukraine. And he really didn't have to make the American people feel better about the real difficulties that they're facing in their lives.
TAPPER: Congressman, you disagree, I'm guessing. What do you think? I mean --
JOE KENNEDY (D-MA), FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: I do. I think, look, I think he started very strong on Ukraine and got a strong bipartisan reaction, which let's give credit because that doesn't happen all that often. So I was glad to see that. But, Congresswoman, I think, you know, I would respectfully disagree. They did just announced tapping the Strategic Petroleum Reserve for 16 million -- I think was 16 million barrels release and granted, I think they'd be the first to say that's not going to be enough, obviously, a crisis at Ukraine. No one wants that crisis. And the timing isn't great for this administration.
But the fact is that there are structural issues here that are going to be hard for them to -- for any president to be able to address. Inflation is not something that they have the tools to be able to address or to adjust, you know, day to day, but they are a -- the portfolio that he talked about yesterday, particularly issues on child care and some in prescription drugs are major issues that the American public is confronting and would make a huge relief with regards to people's pocketbooks.
TAPPER: Congresswoman, let me ask you, because one of the most memorable moments from last night was when Colorado Congresswoman Lauren Boebert, Republican, shouted out and heckled President Biden. He was talking about American soldiers who died after exposure to burn pits, that's a story and an issue we've covered a lot on this show. He was about to invoke his late son Beau.
In a different era, that sort of behavior, getting up and yelling at a president, forgetting the fact that he was in the middle of talking about burn pits, an issue that everybody should be united on, would be widely condemned by the leadership and members of their own party even. What was your reaction when you saw that?
LOVE: Well, it reminded me of former -- well, actually, Representative Joe Wilson of North Carolina -- then President Obama, and I actually asked that he wasn't planning on doing it, he actually ended up just shouting, and he immediately regretted it. He also talked about being embarrassed about it after there was a lot of fundraising. And he just felt that it was the decorum wasn't becoming of the House of Representatives.
And I have to tell you, what's disappointing is that she meant to do it. I think she planned on doing it. And I don't think that there's any embarrassment at all. And the only thing I can say is, you know, this is the people's house, it's not your house. Shout as much as you want to in your own home. But this house belongs to the American people.
And I think that there's a certain decorum and respect that you need to give the President of the United States, especially if you expect to get that respect in return. I may not have liked President Obama's policies, I respected the position.
TAPPER: And, Congressman, what was your reaction when you saw Congresswoman Boebert?
KENNEDY: It was, obviously, it was sad. It was not unexpected. You know, I think Mitt Romney was right, right? Anytime you get to quote Butch Cassidy in a political interview, you're probably in the right place. But Congresswoman Love's -- Senator there, I think, aptly summed it up. Not much more to say on that.
TAPPER: All right. Former members of Congress Mia Love and Joe Kennedy, thanks to both of you. Good to see you again.
Why the ranking member of the Senate Intelligence Committee is growing more concerned about Vladimir Putin state of mind. Senator Marco Rubio will join us next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:38:15]
TAPPER: We're back with the breaking news in our world lead. In just a few hours, Ukrainian and Russian officials are set to meet for a second round of talks in Belarus. This is after Russian troops attacked several major cities in Ukraine overnight.
Let's get right to CNN's Nic Robertson who's live in Moscow for us. And Nic, the same officials just met on Monday, didn't seem to have any impact on Russia's aggression or brutality. What are you hearing about this second round of talks?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, you would think right. If you're still war, if Russia is still bashing you like crazy, what's the point of peace talks? Well, the Ukrainians have sent a delegation, the Russians have sent a delegation. It does seem like from a Russian standpoint, it's a pretty low-tier delegation. These officials are not ranking anywhere up there that carry any particular weight from the Kremlin.
Secretary Blinken, I think, summed it up when he said last time round, Russia's expectations or demands were beyond excessive. There's no way that they're going to be adhered to. The Ukrainian side, they want a ceasefire. The U.S. says you're going to need to have a ceasefire before you can really have a diplomatic track.
The reality is, as you say, Jake, with the fire going on, it's just hard to see how you can have meaningful talks, particularly when the Kremlin doesn't send what you might see as a serious negotiating team.
TAPPER: Nic, Russia has seen seven days now of anti-war protests across their own country. Thousands of demonstrators have been arrested and detained, what's going on?
ROBERTSON: Yes, more than 7,600. It's not something you're going to see on state TV here because the Kremlin wants to keep this protest as quiet as possible. They're arresting pretty much everyone they see showing up at these protests.
[17:40:02]
I was just looking at video, we're waiting to verify it before we put it on there. But this was a lady who was in her 90s maybe. She was survived the siege of Leningrad in the Second World War. She's got two posters. She's this tiny old lady, and there's two cops in riot gear, and then swarmed by others to arrest her.
Putin doesn't want an anti-war narrative. He wants that stopped and shut up. But more than 1,000 people a day for the last seven days have been getting arrested. So this isn't going away right now or may gain further momentum, Jake.
TAPPER: All right, Nic Robertson in Moscow, thank you so much. Joining us live to discuss, Republican Senator Marco Rubio of Florida. He's the Vice Chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee. He also serves on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Senator Rubio, you're part of the Gang of Eight, that's members of Congress who get access to the most classified -- most sensitive classified information. You've been very publicly tweeting about Russian military movements, what's going on in Ukraine. Putin's mental state.
You say you're not sharing classified information, I'm sure that's true. Can you explain the why you have decided to give the American people these insights, this play by play?
SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL): Well, first, thanks for having me on, Jake. As you're well aware, you know, the administration's been very forward leaning and what it's been putting out there. In fact, if you go back and read the things, they've been disclosing for two, three weeks, it pretty much laid out exactly what Putin was going to do. And a lot of people were skeptical that was going to happen, including here domestically.
And so now as that begins to happen, you try to synthesize that for American audiences. Look, I'm asking the people of Florida, I'm asking the people that follow me to take care. People forget, but seven or nine days ago, there were still voices in America saying, you know, this wasn't going to happen, or this was none of our business.
And so I think it's important to lean forward if we're going to ask the American people to be supportive of the policy measures we're going to be taking, and our focus on these sorts of issues. And you got to outline to them not just what's happening, but why it's happening, what Putin's ultimate goal is, et cetera. And to me, that's very important.
I think the other thing this reveals, by the way, is we've entered an era where for lack of a better term, open intelligence is out there every single day, I mean, even on your own station, whether it's the videos from the ground that are being shared by people, or the overhead imagery from companies like Maxar and others, are revealing a tremendous amount. It's hard to hide things anymore in the world. You can't mask 190,000 troops on the Ukrainian border and not be noticed by somebody.
So all of these things are a combination of a new era. Information is now a combat space. And the fact that I think it's really important to take what's already out there in the public record and synthesize it with what's happening in real time. So people understand what's occurring here and what's going to come next.
TAPPER: Sources tell CNN that the U.S. Intelligence Committee has made a priority of trying to understand Vladimir Putin's mental state, you've noted before. You and I've talked about how he's having emotional outbursts in contrary -- in contrast to his past behavior. What are you hoping U.S. Intel will find, and how could it help the West?
RUBIO: Yes, I think it's important understand the context of it. This is not about whether the guy is crazy, you're not crazy, or, you know, you've got some other issues. I know that's a lot, what a lot of people assume. This is about the following. And that is we should not assume that the Vladimir Putin of 2022 is the same guy that he was 10 or five years ago.
His risk calculus is very different, and I'll tell you why it is. It's because he's older now and his time is running out on this earth. I mean, he knows that. He's about to turn 70, and he might not going to be around for 30 more years to deal with all this. He views himself as as great historic figure in Russia.
Every great Russian figure in history has conquered territory. He views it as a historic legacy to restore greater Russia. And you can't do that unless Ukraine is something that you control and have at least a vassal state. And so he's deeply committed to this, if you look at what he's move forward. But I also think he's someone that has shown it.
This is a guy who's always prided himself on emotional control, almost stoicism, for him to flash, the sort of anger that you've seen is an indication that we're dealing with a different guy. And I'll tell you why that's important. It's not a curiosity. It's not to mock camera to troll him. It's because he may be willing to take escalatory steps now that the old Vladimir Putin would not.
And I think that's important because a lot of people that are out there saying he wasn't going to invade, while the old Putin wouldn't have invaded, but the new one, this one will because this calculus has become very different than it was not long ago. And that's important for policymakers to keep in mind. There are some real dangers here of escalation.
TAPPER: Former Trump National Security Council official and Russian expert, Fiona Hill, told Politico, "If anybody thinks that Putin wouldn't use something that he's got that is unusual and cruel, think again. Every time you think, 'No, he wouldn't, would he?' Well, yes, he would. And he wants us to know that, of course."
That is a chilling assessment, especially when one considers that he has nuclear weapons. Do you agree with that?
RUBIO: Well, I would say, look, there -- his economy is in freefall. The Russian economy a week from now is going to be in a very terrible place. He is clearly suffering battlefield humiliations. He has a no one -- he can't win in Ukraine. He's either going to have a very costly drawn out in military engagement, victory, you know, but after a long term or he's going to be caught in a quagmire where he's fighting off 40 million people.
[17:45:07]
Remember he's not just fighting a military here, he's fighting the people. So he's going to have the military humiliation, the economic collapse that's on its way to Russia. And he's got very few options to go back and, you know, stabilize the strategic balance. He can't sanction us, you know, he can't. So what are his options? His options that remain are cyber and space and creating new provocations, like these threats of nuclear weapons. And that's why it's concerning. At some point here, it's my personal opinion, that this guy is going to have to create some new crisis or some things, he's going to have to do something to reset the strategic balance and force everyone to the table with him. And it could be a combination of things, including a seizure key where 3 million people are being starved to death.
TAPPER: Your colleague, Republican Senator Ben Sasse, told me yesterday that he thinks lawyers in the administration are slowing down the process of sharing real-time intelligence with Ukrainians. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BEN SASSE (R-NE): We know that the Ukrainians want more lethal, actionable, real-time intelligence. And right now, they're not getting that. The process is overly loitered right now by the administration. It isn't good enough to tell somebody where a tank was 10 hours ago, when the tanks now at the doorstep trying to do the kind of bombing we've seen in Kharkiv.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: And my understanding is that the NSC itself has not issued any guidance on intelligence sharing with Ukraine, and that they signed off on what the Pentagon proposed. If there is an issue causing a delay, where is it? Is it in the Pentagon? Is it in the CIA? Where do you think it is?
RUBIO: Well, it depends, but ultimately, it will be in the hands of legal officers, and then ultimately, that of the President. I mean, you know, President has the power to declassify and share intelligence with whoever he or she chooses to do. So let me say with intelligence, I think that we should lean forward in providing actionable intelligence.
I think there are a couple factors to keep in place. Number one, can it be communicated in a secure way? And when by actionable, it has to be accurate. You don't -- you know, a lot of times people think intelligence is just as black or white. It's oftentimes it's an assessment, it's a highly educated guess.
You don't want to make a mistake, especially since the Russians have shown a capacity to adjust tactics they did in Syria when they met setbacks in the like. You know, the Ukrainians have limited resources as is. You don't want them chasing one thing when, in fact, things change on the ground, and they find themselves in the wrong place. So there's some complexity.
But generally speaking, I share concerns that some of that may not be getting there fast enough. And even today, there has been work done to sort of assess that and make sure that any sort of unnecessary impediments are removed.
TAPPER: The Vice Chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Senator Marco Rubio of Florida, thank you so much. Appreciate your time, sir.
RUBIO: Thanks.
TAPPER: President Biden Supreme Court nominee just spent her first day on the Hill talking to senators. And we now have a better idea of when that confirmation vote might take place. Stay with us.
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[17:52:12]
TAPPER: In the politics lead, confirmation hearings for a Supreme Court nominee Ketanji Brown Jackson are set for March 21st, two and a half weeks. Judge Jackson today started her first round of face to face meetings on Capitol Hill including with the Senate majority and minority leaders as well as the top Democrat and the top Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee.
CNN's Jeff Zeleny is on Capitol Hill for us now. Jeff, by when did the Democrats plan to have confirmation wrapped up?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, Democrats hope that they will have the confirmation
hearing completed that week of March 21st after she's introduced a couple of days of questions and then additional witnesses but they hope for a full Senate vote by April 8th. That is before the Senate leaves for their Easter recess. So this is a pretty expedited timeline, but not as fast as the timeline as everyone will remember from Judge Amy Coney Barrett, of course, in the weeks leading up to the 2020 election.
So that's what Democrats are using as a marker here. They're saying this is not without precedent. They are simply following the procedure. And she also has appeared before the Judiciary Committee just last year. So they're very familiar with her.
But Jake, has we watched her walk around Capitol Hill today, it's true that senators are familiar with her. And Senator Chuck Grassley, the top Republican on the committee, he promised a fair hearing.
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SEN. CHUCK GRASSLEY (R-IA), RANKING MEMBER, JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: One of the things that would be my responsibility as leader in the Republican on this committee, is to make sure we have a fair process, a dignified process, and that we will make sure that that is -- that we don't repeat some of the mistakes that were made by other people in the Kavanaugh hearing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZELENY: So Senator Grassley raising the Kavanaugh hearings, of course, that was Brett Kavanaugh during 2018. Those sexual assault allegations royal those hearings. Senator Grassley and other Republicans say they do intend to treat Judge Jackson fairly. Of course, anything could always come up during these hearings. But Democrats are confident she has been confirmed three times before for lower positions that they are well aware of her background.
Jake, I'm told she'll be meeting with another bipartisan group of senators again here tomorrow, heading up to those confirmation hearings beginning in just two and a half weeks.
TAPPER: Jeff Zeleny, thanks so much. Appreciate it.
She was pushed out of her job by Donald Trump in his White House but now she's back working for the Biden White House. That's next.
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[17:59:00]
TAPPER: Breaking news right now, breaking by me right now, a National Security Council employee pushed out by former President Trump and the National Security Adviser Robert O'Brien has been rehired by the Biden administration. Ellen Knight is her name. She was let go from the NSC because she had been pushing to approve the publication of former national security adviser John Bolton's tell all book, "The Room Where It Happened" about his time in the Trump White House.
Knight's, a non-political appointee, was tasked with removing all sensitive and classified information for Bolton's book. Once she did, she OKed the book for publication but Trump and his justice department and NSC lawyers stepped in to stop it. And Knight was later let go. Bolton told CNN today he applauds the decision by the Biden White House to restate Knight after her, quote, disgraceful firing by former President Trump.
Finally the intersection of our sports and world leads, Russian Oligarch Roman Abramovich just announced he plans to sell one of the most popular soccer teams in the world, Chelsea FC. And the billionaire with close ties to Putin says he plans to donate all net proceeds to victims of Russia's war in Ukraine. Abramovich says the money will pay for war victims' immediate needs as well as for the long-term recovery and rebuilding of Ukraine.
Follow me on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and the TikTok at JakeTapper. You can tweet the show at TheLeadCNN or listen to our podcast. Our coverage continues now with Wolf Blitzer in The Situation Room. See you tomorrow.
